Any Positive Fans Out Here??

We have the best defence in the league without even having a stable defence. Defence could be incredible next season

Going forward we are boring but we have sanchez yet to settle in and mourinho will have learned from a year with lukaku as the fulcrum and will hopefully know how to make it work next season
 
Crashoutcassius said:
We have the best defence in the league without even having a stable defence. Defence could be incredible next season
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It was the same during LVG's tenure. It's all thanks to DDG and him being the best GK in the world, I'm afraid.

We'd still have a top 6 defense without him, but the Spaniard makes it look like the best on his own. And to be honest, City have conceded only one more goal than us, so it's not like we have the best defensive stats by a mile, it's very close.
 
noodlehair said:
I don't think there's that many people (there's probably a few because there always is) who think you can't criticise our style of play or other aspects, just because Jose is manager. This was definitely more of a problem under LVG, where any argument you made to criticise him was batted off as you not understanding his philosophy (the fact he didn't seem to understand it either didn't seem to be relevant). With Jose it seems to constantly be open season as far as criticism goes. You can criticise him about whatever you want..and some of it does disperse from being genuine criticism to just borderline maniacle lunacy that has no sense or logic to it. People seem to want EVERYTHING to be Jose Mourinho's fault. It's the current theme. There's always themes on here. Everything used to be Berbatov's fault. Everything was Rooney's fault for a while. At one point the team selections were Rooney's fault (no, really). At the moment a player can't play badly without it being Jose's fault. If Man City win 5-0 against someone, that's Jose's fault because we can''t do the same thing. There's no semblance of balance or realism to anything.

I mean, I don't think any of your criticisms are particularly unfair at all. In fact, I pretty much agree with you. Apart form that I don't think the football in general gets anywhere near as bad as under LVG. I don't even think his record in big games was significantly better...though you are right that we are certainly more cowardly in those games now. I don't think who's spent what is such a factor as LVG and Mourinho would have had similar resources at their disposal, and LVG didn't exactlly spend wisely. Jose has already ditched one of his signings, which is quite weird as you'd think we'd research who we're spending money on a bit better..espciallly after LVG did the same thing with several players.

On the whole though, yeah. I saw the progress last season, wasn't happy with the amount of moaning from Jose and negative performances towards the end of it. This season the jury is still out and I'm not sure what to make of Jose in terms of whether I think he's the right guy to take us forwards...but I would also take that hand in hand with the fact that we are now a better team than a year and a half ago, a mentally tougher team. We have better players. A team that scores more goals and can make easy work of games that a couple of years ago would have been somewhere from a struggle to descending into some kind of comedy act. At the end of the day we are in second place and still in two of the three cups...it can still go well or horribly wrong and what I see on the pitch makes me indecisive about which I think is more likely...but you can think these things without needing to jump on the bandwagon of taking it to silly extremes.
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Thank you noodle, it's nice to have a reasonable discussion and not to have worries dismissed completely out of hand or patronisingly called a fake supporter for pretty much not worshipping the ground Mourinho walks on. I agree with your first point, i mean I look at Pogba, whilst I think Mourinho has to take quite a bit of blame for how nearly all of our team plays at times, Pogba doesn't help himself a lot of the time, i'd certainly like to see more effort from him. I'm glad you agree that the criticisms aren't without merit and I didn't even bring up his signings thing, but you make a good point when you consider Mkhitaryan's gone, Lindelof can barely get on the bench, Lukaku is not playing as well as he should be, he forced Martial to the right to accomodate Sanchez and so on. I mean everyone wants to see exciting brilliant football, particularly us lot because we've been known to do it for so long, and it is annoying to see your rivals playing so well, but I don't blame Mourinho if another team wins in a spectacular fashion, I do blame him however for the way we set up as a team.

I mean I personally don't think Mourinho is the right guy to take us forward after this season, and i'm not being over dramatic saying 'sack him now its a disgrace!' or anything stupid like that, we'd be crazy to sack him now, all i've been saying is, considering that I think we've stalled this season compared to last, signings haven't worked out, the football at times is quite bad, and yes we are 2nd as you say but as you also say things could take a turn for the worst, that's why I think the best thing for the club to do is see how the rest of this season pans out, take stock at the end of the season and take it from there, if things do end up the worst then I don't see how his position can be tenable anymore after what we've seen and what's been spent.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
We have the best defence in the league without even having a stable defence. Defence could be incredible next season

Going forward we are boring but we have sanchez yet to settle in and mourinho will have learned from a year with lukaku as the fulcrum and will hopefully know how to make it work next season
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Genuine question....Is the best defence always the team that concedes the least goals?

Would you accept a few more goals conceded if your centre backs could pass the ball out of defence?
If your full backs created many more goals by being free to overlap the forward players?
If you didn't need 2 defensive midfielders to sit in front of the back 4 .
If your wide players didn't have to always think first of their defensive responsibilities?

We have been defensively sound for most of the season however we haven't got the balance right with their attacking role.
 
hn4manunited said:
I have enjoyed this forum over the years but I’m going to take a break from this forum. There’s nothing but doom and gloom on here when I actually have felt pretty great and positive about progress we’ve made under Jose. Fans on here have a pretty short memory.

Sometimes, the results and performances may have been frustrating but that’s football. If it’s not frustrating, it’s not really realistic is it? Being able to spend and spend and spend and win and win and win without ups and downs, what fun is that?

I remember majority of those years under SAF. There were ups and downs more than some of you remember! Some seasons more frustrating than others but it was always fun. We played some good football and we also played some atrocious football. We have gone at teams and we have taken the approach of going in for a draw or setting up to not allow the other team to play football. Pragmatists and winners will always find a way to achieve success by doing what’s necessary for the bigger picture or greater good. There is not only one way to win.

These forums/messageboards used to be a tight community of information sharing with reasonable discussions and enjoying each other being a part of supporting a great club like this. There were always some outliers but not like these days. It’s now all about nagging and whining and slagging off any bit of positivity out of our great community and club.

Anyway, all I want to do is leave this forum with my last post with a little bit of positivity. For those who can’t see or appreciate, there is something great happening here. It is already a great thing to be supporting this club. Enjoy every bit of it even if it may be little wins no matter how small in every aspect of this great club. Seeing those appreciable things may help you enjoy this club more. Nitpicking will never end:)

Best wishes and good luck to every one.
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If that’s your last post for a while. You went out with a bang. Excellent post
 
I dont agree with some who say the team is playing within themselves as the leagues lost, I think its the system they are playing. We look and play better with a 3 man midfield. When we play with 2 we are so weak, especially against the big boys, and resort to pumping the ball forward. This has got to have a negative effect on the players, and consequently the fans will be negative. Look at the start of last season and this, and mostly everyone was positive. Its all to do how the team perform that obviously affect the mindset of the fans
 
edgar allan said:
I think of late he has been buying the right players to address the weakness in their squad.
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This has got to be a wind up, England's keepers not good enough let's ship him out and buy a replacement, whoops he's not good enough let's drop another 35m on another, while we're at it let's buy Stones for 50m, shit he's rubbish let's drop 55m on Laporte, I need full backs, tell you what let's buy three, shit ones injured and there's nobody in the best academy in the world to step in so I'll play a midfielder there just to prove I'm a fecking genius.
 
Beaucoup said:
This has got to be a wind up, England's keepers not good enough let's ship him out and buy a replacement, whoops he's not good enough let's drop another 35m on another, while we're at it let's buy Stones for 50m, shit he's rubbish let's drop 55m on Laporte, I need full backs, tell you what let's buy three, shit ones injured and there's nobody in the best academy in the world to step in so I'll play a midfielder there just to prove I'm a fecking genius.
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Mhiki, Ibra and Lindelof asked me to say Hello.
 
Noodlehair:

Funny thing is when I go to games and when I used to have a season ticket, the level of moaning and repetive baffling shite in the ground and in the pub before hand would sometimes be ten fold what it usually is on here. Particularly during negative periods such as when Moyes was in charge. People in the stadium in particular often have amazingly weird points of view. The guy two rows behind me used to hate De Gea and shout abuse at him nearly every game. There was literally nowhere you could sit in the stadium without someone near you spending the whole game moaning about Nani, even if he was playing well. There were mobs of Ferguson haters. Hargreaves seemed to be nearly universally disliked as a player at OT yet on here the feeling towards him was mostly positive. Then people, not so much now, but certianly in the past, would come on here and tell "armchair fans" off for having negative opinions, which I always found strange, because there's no way you go to Old Trafford regularly and don't hear some of the same things, if anything just articulated worse/more drunkenly than on here.

I think the main difference is, if I'm watching or talking about football in a pub, it will be in a jokey way. If I'm having a moan about something with or to someone, I'm also having a laugh with them. We're not going to fall out over what part of the pitch Paul Pogba wants to play in. On here sometimes people take your opinion on even the most pointless subject extremely seriously...almost as if it's some kind of personal insult.

Very true *** is
 
Guys, can i get a few likes? Thank you in advance. :) Need a few likes so that i can post more on the forum
 
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I was positive when I thought we had a good defense, but the last few months have been poor in that regard. Even rubbish teams are getting too many chances.
 
It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the CL next week, particularly given how well English teams did this week. If we put in a poor performance, this forum will sink to even lower despair and it’ll blow the argument that the team can’t get themselves up for the league out of the water.

Put in a great performance and then beat Chelsea and we’ll regain some perspective.
 
What you have to understand is that some fans will never ever respect Mourinho.

Listen, I'm trying and I bite my tongue a lot around here but it is hard when you have spent the last decade or so hating the prick. If you don't understand that Man United fans really dislike Mourinho, then you might not understand the negativity.

Look at these threads when Mourinho was Chelsea manager:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jose-mourinho-sack-watch.409313/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/eva-carneiro-leaves-chelsea.409735/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/pol...as-the-next-manchester-united-manager.412540/ (This poll changed a lot as it became clear he would be manager)



Look at some of those comments. That's because as a manager Mourinho goes against a lot of what Manchester United should stand for. There are a LOT of Manchester United fans who believe in the romance and the honour of the club above all others and as such Mourinho is not really ideal as a Manchester United manager. It's not just some random knobs on an internet message board as well, it is influential people like Bobby Charlton and other legends.


http://www.goal.com/en/news/better-...tract-is-good-for-/1hnuhlce1vul91a9fcwle97cgl
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/stats-more-reasons-to-keep-jose-mourinho-away-from-united/
https://www.independent.ie/sport/so...to-ryan-giggs-old-trafford-exit-34851762.html

To a LOT of people we 'sold our soul' when we got Mourinho. Which might have made sense IF it meant we had a lot of success. But on current form and looking at other clubs I think we're no better than the teams around us, we're closer to Burnley then we are to City. All of this despite revving up the wage bill, spending around 300 million and falling out with influential players (TBF - This may be nonsense).

So Mourinho HAD to come in and have immediate success. And because he hasn't there is a lot of toxicity about the club. To put it simply he doesn't have any goodwill in the bag. So this reaction is no surprise to me and I don't think it will get any better from here on out.
 
Hed Zitin said:
I was positive when I thought we had a good defense, but the last few months have been poor in that regard. Even rubbish teams are getting too many chances.
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This is a very good point. If you are a manager like Mourinho who has that defensive philosophy then you better make damn well sure your team is more solid than we are at times. Otherwise it's game over. Liverpool fans tolerate Klopp because even though they are defensively frail at least they do the other bit well. Annoyingly they now seem to be addressing their defence as well.

Being solid and really hard to score against is the core of Jose's team and philosophy. That's presumably why he doesn't give Pogba a free rein? Problem is that he's crap at it. When that defensive side starts to unravel Jose just has to go. There's no point in having him otherwise.

It's hard to be positive when you see so little reason for optimism and see a team that just seems stuck and not knowing what it's about. But then , maybe I should just stick my head in the sand and not nitpick?
 
Wumminator said:
What you have to understand is that some fans will never ever respect Mourinho.

Listen, I'm trying and I bite my tongue a lot around here but it is hard when you have spent the last decade or so hating the prick. If you don't understand that Man United fans really dislike Mourinho, then you might not understand the negativity.

Look at these threads when Mourinho was Chelsea manager:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jose-mourinho-sack-watch.409313/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/eva-carneiro-leaves-chelsea.409735/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/pol...as-the-next-manchester-united-manager.412540/ (This poll changed a lot as it became clear he would be manager)



Look at some of those comments. That's because as a manager Mourinho goes against a lot of what Manchester United should stand for. There are a LOT of Manchester United fans who believe in the romance and the honour of the club above all others and as such Mourinho is not really ideal as a Manchester United manager. It's not just some random knobs on an internet message board as well, it is influential people like Bobby Charlton and other legends.


http://www.goal.com/en/news/better-...tract-is-good-for-/1hnuhlce1vul91a9fcwle97cgl
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/stats-more-reasons-to-keep-jose-mourinho-away-from-united/
https://www.independent.ie/sport/so...to-ryan-giggs-old-trafford-exit-34851762.html

To a LOT of people we 'sold our soul' when we got Mourinho. Which might have made sense IF it meant we had a lot of success. But on current form and looking at other clubs I think we're no better than the teams around us, we're closer to Burnley then we are to City. All of this despite revving up the wage bill, spending around 300 million and falling out with influential players (TBF - This may be nonsense).

So Mourinho HAD to come in and have immediate success. And because he hasn't there is a lot of toxicity about the club. To put it simply he doesn't have any goodwill in the bag. So this reaction is no surprise to me and I don't think it will get any better from here on out.
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That is true regarding the negative view that many of us had regarding Jose's appointment.
However I have not met one person that hadn't been ready to give him the benefit of the doubt.
That still applies now however it is getting near the crunch time for him to demonstrate that he is the right manager for the club.
He was all talk at his appointment of the extra responsibility of our club to entertain as well as to be successful. Still waiting....
 
edgar allan said:
That is true regarding the negative view that many of us had regarding Jose's appointment.
However I have not met one person that hadn't been ready to give him the benefit of the doubt.
That still applies now however it is getting near the crunch time for him to demonstrate that he is the right manager for the club.
He was all talk at his appointment of the extra responsibility of our club to entertain as well as to be successful. Still waiting....
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Mate there are plenty of people who even if they were willing to give him the doubt will be more harsh in how they evaluate his tenure. I am one. There are also lads I know who won't go while he is the manager. There are people on this forum who are more anti Mourinho than I am. You only have to look at how some respected posters who claim to want Mourinho react to losing games that shows the impact he has.

Fact is Mourinho comes with a history and it isn't one that suits Manchester United. This will have an impact on how he is seen.

Similarly if you look through those threads I posted you can see how anyone but Mourinho was never going to be enough for some people. Poeple were decrying Moyes before he even started the job.
 
So what's your
Denis' cuff said:
Too many outraged customers. Most, not even customers because they aren’t even paying customers.

Not enough supporters.

Supporters who not only pay their way but support with morale.

In fact, the majority of “reds” on here and elsewhere haven’t a clue about support. They have no intention or notion of supporting the club but object to us falling from an unsustainable high, thanks to us being lucky, not only to have had the greatest ever manager but actually have him for a quarter of a century. “We’re Manchester United” they cry from Hong Kong to Barnstaple to Belfast as though it is a given right. We didn’t just become that club without earning it. We are only the Manchester United that they have in their heads because of the work of SAF and those before him, as well as supporters who supported the club through the lean times to enable SAFs recruitment. I think “entitlement” is the albeit, over used, term that fits perfectly. Time for followers to actually support and not whinge because the world class manager that we are lucky to have, is not playing their pin up boy in his or their preferred role or as they would have him playing in their make believe toy-world. Try supporting. It is actually really quite uplifting, even if we become truly average, just like the majority of teams are. You are not superior by attachment to MUFC but merely a bandwagon jumper that we knew we’d become plagued with from the mid 90s. Not everyone can be a STH but at least give the club and incumbent manager your support. That, more than anything has made United different and the club they are today. If we don’t have real support, we’ll be Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton and possibly worse. They used to be giants too, or at least top dogs over a period of time. Time for “reds” to become supporters.
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So what is your definition of support?
Pay your money and take what is given ?
 
Wumminator said:
Mate there are plenty of people who even if they were willing to give him the doubt will be more harsh in how they evaluate his tenure. I am one. There are also lads I know who won't go while he is the manager. There are people on this forum who are more anti Mourinho than I am. You only have to look at how some respected posters who claim to want Mourinho react to losing games that shows the impact he has.

Fact is Mourinho comes with a history and it isn't one that suits Manchester United. This will have an impact on how he is seen.

Similarly if you look through those threads I posted you can see how anyone but Mourinho was never going to be enough for some people. Poeple were decrying Moyes before he even started the job.
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I agree with you to a point. Forums get extreme views that is a given.
I didn't want Jose anywhere near our club, I'd be happy to drive him to the airport to tonight. I have little confidence that he will create a team I am proud of and enjoy watching.
However the reality is that he will be manager likely for another season at the least. A top 4 place will probably be seen as sufficient. He is hugely in debt to the rock bottom expectations after the last few years.
 
Snow said:
It's not problematic to lose confidence in February when you're more than 12 points behind the leaders.

We could maybe be 7-9 points if we had played a lot better. What does that say about the league leaders? The players are only human, this will get to them. The team's efforts have not been an issue until the past two games or so.
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Don’t get me wrong City have had a freak season and it’s difficult to imagine them not winning even if the above scenario was true.

However I feel like their heads went down around Christmas, this isn’t a recent thing
 
edgar allan said:
Genuine question....Is the best defence always the team that concedes the least goals?

Would you accept a few more goals conceded if your centre backs could pass the ball out of defence?
If your full backs created many more goals by being free to overlap the forward players?
If you didn't need 2 defensive midfielders to sit in front of the back 4 .
If your wide players didn't have to always think first of their defensive responsibilities?

We have been defensively sound for most of the season however we haven't got the balance right with their attacking role.
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Arsene? Where ave you been ould sod?
 
A United fan should say "We are still in Champions League so we can win it because:

- we're United
- we won the Europa league last year
- we're better than last year

Instead of tracking Guardiola, you should just enjoy the positive trend over 18 months
 
I'm positive when we do positive things. I want to see Jose improve us, I want to see us playing exciting football every week, I want to be excited for the weekend. I'm not deliberately setting out to be negative - why would anyone do that?

But our performances make positivity difficult. We've signed pretty well though, and I trust Jose to strengthen is further in the summer. Guess I'm just sick of us slowly paddling to shore, and it'd be nice to see some week on week improvements. How Pogba, Matic, Mata and Sanchez can't run a game for us is beyond me; we always seem to be on the back foot, playing reactive football, taking lead from the opposition.

But if Mourinho fails we'll be in a great position for whoever comes in. I think many of us would agree our squad only a couple of players away from being among the best around.
 
Positivity died out when Louis failed to get us horny.

I like to think I see the bigger picture. How so far behind the club was from youth teams to senior. It’s a big undertaking, and it will take a few years to get right. We are still a few years behind City on all levels. We just blow everyone out of the water revenue wise. Time to replicate through ever level. Nicky Butt and co are doing good work, but the amount coming through to u23s shows we are a few years away too there. And you need a caliber of a manager like Jose at the helm. He’s the gaffer most constantly moaning United fans don’t deserve.

The level of blinkered vision at times here is off putting.
 
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