If the only counter example you can think of is of a player that debuted 3 decades ago and played in a 4-4-2 in a role far more akin to a modern midfielder than that of a wide forward of modern football, then you've made my point.
Antony | Here we go! €100mill, contract until June 2027, option 'til 2028.
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If the only counter example you can think of is of a player that debuted 3 decades ago and played in a 4-4-2 in a role far more akin to a modern midfielder than that of a wide forward of modern football, then you've made my point.
You should maybe try err watching football some time. Probably one of the daftest comments i've read on here this year.
Mane is absolutely immense and one of the main reasons Liverpool were so good for so long. He was easily a top 10 attacker in world football and there isn't a team around he wouldn't have walked into. He's got absolutely everything you would want from a modern day forward. The reason he's going for 35million is that he's got 1 year left on his contract and at 30 years of age wants to play elsewhere.
Would Beckham really play as a winger if he was around today? Think he’d be more like De Bruyne tbh.
I hope he wont be another "right winger" than ends up playing on the left for us.
Think we'll definitely go back in for him towards the end of the window. It was reported from the start that ETH desperately wants him and that attack is the position we'll strengthen last.
And teams also define 'pace' as a full-back not being outpaced by their winger. So what now?
It was just the first example that came to mind. Jadon Sancho isn’t particularly pacy, nor Bernardo Silva, doesn’t stop them either.
My hunch is we’re negotiating a package deal for him and Martinez which is why it is taking so long. I still think Timber was wanted at RB too.
You’ll always get exceptions though. The fact he was the greatest crosser of a ball of all time meant he didn’t need pace. In the modern game, a winger will struggle without pace. They aren’t even wingers anymore, more like inside forwards which makes it even more important to have pace as you would be needing to score a lot more than a traditional winger like Giggs and Beckham needed to.
Of course he can. And there are other ways of beating your defender then sheer pace. If you aren't able to beat a defender without pace, you're out of place at a top team. You can be a world class winger being a 6/10 in terms of pace. You can't be a world class winger if you're a 6/10 in terms of decision making or technique, even if you're a 10/10 pace merchant.
Being inside forwards makes it actually less important to have pace because you can't utilize it anyway.
I think the fact that we signed a LB and still want Martinez should retired the notion that Timber was being targeted to play in a different position to the one Ten Hag plays him in every week. Seems people had been saying Timber would be a right back based on the fact he’s only 5’11 - but I think Martinez demonstrates that he has no issue with a shorter centre half. Clearly, Martinez hasn’t been targeted to play at LB.
I thought Antony was supposed to be rapid?
Robben popped in a decade ago to say hi
What? What the heck does Malacia being signed have to do with Timber playing right back? Or Martinez LB? We were linked all summer to a left footed CB even before timber apparently said no - Martinez is that left footed CB.
Disagree. You would still need pace to get passed a player or gain half a yard to get your shot off. If you have no pace and just come inside all the time you become very predictable and easy to mark.
Not many current successful teams have winger/forwards with no pace. Even if it’s more on one side than the other.
Highly probably Timber was being brought in for RB. Ten Haag clearly doesn’t fancy AWB or Dalot if reports are to be believed.
I worry he will get knocked off the ball too easily at the moment
If that was the case why wouldn’t we have moved onto an alternative RB target? Because it looks like we targeted Timber, got turned down and moved onto Martinez.
He’s not ready to be brought in right now. But I was just stating he is a left footed RW we have in the squad.
Ajax message boards reasonably confident they will keep him and will charge loooads for Martinez. Seemingly Overmars previously had a policy of no more than three players being sold a transfer window and after three teams start getting gouged. They have already sold three. Don't think this is a flier.
Anyone who has watched him constantly, what’s his movement off the ball like? We will have Sancho comming looking for the ball from one wing so could do with one making clever runs in behind.
Didn't realise he was
If we signed someone who could pass and cross line Beckham, they can walk for all I care.
Besides Beckham was not slow, he just wasn't as fast as Giggs. He also worked very hard off the ball too.
Exactly this. Most wingers need pace to get into threatening situations so they can put the ball into a dangerous area. When you’ve got a pass like Beckham where you can put the ball anywhere on the pitch, you don’t need to run. The ball can travel faster than you can run.
And Robben was world class because he didn't need space to be effective. he could dribble you and find a shooting lane in a telephone cell.
You don't need pace to get passed a player. Clean technique and ball control is key. If you dribble in tight spaces, you almost never work with pace. It's only important if there's room in front of you and that's usually in wide areas or during counters (which is a rare occurance for top teams).
Also I'd argue there are very few top teams with genuinely fast wingers. You'll find much faster wingers than, say, Salah and Mané for example. Mahrez for instance is even slower.
Pace isn't the be all and end all of a wide player, however if you have the option to take your opponent out of the game by simply bursting past them, like Bale or Robben, then it is a very useful weapon to have in your team. That is, in my opinion, one of the biggest things we lack in attack right now. An explosive attacking player who can get forward quickly. The last player who was really able to do that was Rashford pre injury issues. A player like Bale or Di Maria who can get up the field rapidly would be a huge addition to the attack.
Salah and Mane are two of the fastest wingers around as is Vinicius, Mbappe or even prime Neymar, the best wide players around have a significant amount of pace, Mahrez for example is not at that truly elite level partly for the same reason you named.
Which successful teams in recent years have had slow wingers with little pace on both sides?
Mahrez certainly isn’t slow. I would class him as a player with pace. Regardless, they’ve had Sterling who has pace to burn. Sane before him.
Liverpool have and had pace to burn.
There’s no point trying to argue that no pace on the wings is just as effective as having pace.
The answer is already in the post.
Come off it. Salah and Mane are absolutely rapid.
Are you insane or just really blind? Because Antony is more than fast enough to take on a fullback.
I’m not sure why this constant repetition of Antony lacking pace or worse still, the ability to beat a man, which I also read is about. He is strong in both.
Antony is actually quick and pace isn't a issue for him. Players like Ribery and Robert Pires weren't express pace but were quick and most importantly were technically superb players.
I was also one of the posters that saw the sense in utilising Timber at RB. At Ajax ten Hag had Mazraoui as the undisputed RB when he was fit. But when he wasn't available, Timber was utilised at RB. We don't have a RB like Mazraoui, so it made sense to discuss the possibility of Timber playing in the role, and it had nothing to do with his height but rather how important the role of the fullback is in the build up phase.
I was also one of the posters that saw the sense in utilising Timber at RB. At Ajax ten Hag had Mazraoui as the undisputed RB when he was fit. But when he wasn't available, Timber was utilised at RB. We don't have a RB like Mazraoui, so it made sense to discuss the possibility of Timber playing in the role, and it had nothing to do with his height but rather how important the role of the fullback is in the build up phase.
If Mahrez isn't slow, Antony is lightning quick.
No, they aren't among the fastest wingers around. There are many wingers faster than Salah and Mané. Vinicius is very fast though.
As said, you can find many wingers much faster than those two. Probably even Antony is faster than them. The qualities that make them stand out aren't pace related.
Even if you disagree that Mahrez isn’t slow, you’ve ignored the point about city always having pace on one of the wings.
But then you have history of arguing pointless arguments. Very bizarre you’d try to argue that no pace is just as effective as having pace.
You still haven’t given examples of successful teams in recent years with no pace on wings.
Ladies and Gentleman, it’s @Zehner
Hilarious.
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