Brazilian roundabout
Antony dos Santos (Out)
- Thread starter Samid
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The whole point is that anybody who was paying attention could've seen this coming. It's not hindsight, and it's not about me specifically. Do you want me to pull up similar posts from other posters, or will you just find something else to complain about?
Username checks out on this one
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29411937
This is also a good one.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29411892
Pidgey found the value in Antony!
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29411947
I don’t think this one is talking about the same player
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29411988
And finally….. I’ve found the oracle.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29412134
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29411937
This is also a good one.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29411892
Pidgey found the value in Antony!
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29411947
I don’t think this one is talking about the same player
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29411988
And finally….. I’ve found the oracle.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29412134
I reckon he comes good yet. If I was falsely accused of rape by three beurs it would put me off too.
Keep another season, we won't get the fifty odd million needed for it to balance the FFP value anyways !
Keep another season, we won't get the fifty odd million needed for it to balance the FFP value anyways !
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And when he comes good he will be accused again. Probably. I really wish all players have a top lawyer working for them. So they wouldnt get affected so much from unexpected events (regardless if true or not).
I'd prefer they weren't shitty people in the first place.
Yeah we should do more background checks. But everyone isnt guilty until proven, which can be good or bad.
His breakeven price for the next accounting period is much lower than 50 million
I know his stats weren’t great and lots of people said he didn’t pass the eye test but thats one perspective. The other perspective is his stats looked like he was possibly going to improve a lot given his age and profile. The manager thought his game was something that we were missing to take the next step. He was good in the CL. He was hard working and had a goal in him. I was happy for us to get him.
Yes we got absolutely slaughtered on the price and wages due to extremely poor planning and execution as per usual. It’s not been a good transfer at all for the money especially as we still only paying for potential and taking a total gamble. Rasmus type money should have been the absolute limit we were willing to go to. I genuinely thought we finally had our creativity sorted with Antony Sancho and Greenwood. All have failed and suffered major off the pitch controversy. Sancho and Greenwood looked like absolute certainties at one point. It’s really hard to predict who will do what anymore. One thing is for sure the players we spend really big money on consistently fail. Players who look special can be twats off the pitch and ruin it all just at the final step.
The other side is we’ve been a horribly run club that was never going to get the maximum out of people, no matter what names or talents we brought in it was all built on a rotten foundation. Hopefully with owners that are fully hands on it’ll see players acting more professionally. They know there’s an organisation up there looking to cut wages and get fresh blood into the team all the time. It has nothing to do with the manager so throwing a strop at him for asking you to work harder isn’t going to cut it anymore.
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A particular highlight ahead of the post below likening him to Ronaldo. . . Ok.https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29411846
This is a particular highlight of that thread. Kudos to @AFC NimbleThumb
It was a terrible take mind. All be it, trust you to believe it was literal.
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Yep, cos in a thread fangirling over our new signing it was you who chose sarcasm and mockery. If you say so.
There was so many great posts in that thread, plenty of folk talking out of their ass about a player they had only seen on YT video comps. Thats why I did a follow up post with some of the others. You’re not special!
I think they'll happily sit on the bench and collect their paychecks. We have already seen it with Sancho. Instead of apologizing and getting back into the team, he was cool on spending half a season doing nothing and picking up 250k or whatever every week.
@Hester_manc was spot on, but maybe not quite in the way anticipated...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29412135
Antony and Sancho have indeed (not) performed fairly similarly.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29412135
Antony and Sancho have indeed (not) performed fairly similarly.
How much did we get for Dan James?
Technically Antony is superior by miles. Surely get 25 - 30 million.
Technically Antony is superior by miles. Surely get 25 - 30 million.
Probably correct. Unless he somehow explodes during his next loan but even in Holland his numbers were not that impressive.
Antony technically superior....that is gold
Dan has two feet for a start!Antony technically superior....that is gold
Without question the worst premier league transfer of all time. And some of our other ones take a lot of beating.
Antony technically superior....that is gold
Antony can't beat a man but his football basics are technically better than Dan James.
James is bloody awful, lets not start talking like he was a good player now.
It’s not about hindsight at all, it was always a ridiculous fee. And if someone is on £20k a week you don’t need to offer 10x that amount. We valued him at £25m and got desperate. It’s awful business and many of us knew it at the time. When you’re in a salary negotiation you don’t randomly go “oh I reckon he’s worth about £200k”, you find out what he’s on already and then make an offer that’s a little higher yet still attractive to said prospective employee. It’s about coming to an agreement that protects your business.
This is why employers will ask you what you’re already on when you’re interviewing for a job. They don’t want to straight up offer you £50k if you’re currently only on £30k and £35k will do it. This is where you enter a negotiation, and with regards to Antony, I flat out refuse to believe it was £200k or nothing. The lad went on strike from Ajax to force the move for gods sake. Even if he’d have worked out shit hot at United I’d never agree that putting him straight on £200k was the correct decision. He should be earning that kind of pay rise through performances. Don’t take my word for it, Jim Ratcliffe has talked about fixing these kinds of issues and this is the exact thing he’s talking about.
This is why employers will ask you what you’re already on when you’re interviewing for a job. They don’t want to straight up offer you £50k if you’re currently only on £30k and £35k will do it. This is where you enter a negotiation, and with regards to Antony, I flat out refuse to believe it was £200k or nothing. The lad went on strike from Ajax to force the move for gods sake. Even if he’d have worked out shit hot at United I’d never agree that putting him straight on £200k was the correct decision. He should be earning that kind of pay rise through performances. Don’t take my word for it, Jim Ratcliffe has talked about fixing these kinds of issues and this is the exact thing he’s talking about.
Anthony may be technically better than Dan James. But Dan James will overtake him if Dan even runs backwards.
Basics like being able to tackle and being quick and being able to use both feet??
I’m not saying I chose sarcasm or mockery. I’m saying that digging up a 4 word posts in the immediacy of a player signing is strange.Yep, cos in a thread fangirling over our new signing it was you who chose sarcasm and mockery. If you say so.
There was so many great posts in that thread, plenty of folk talking out of their ass about a player they had only seen on YT video comps. Thats why I did a follow up post with some of the others. You’re not special!
Knowing EtH was coming I’m sure many saw more of Antony than we’d seen of other more successful signings previously. Given he’d work with him previously I don’t think anybody saw 0 g/a . Personally I thought EtH would play differently & Antony would play closer to the opposition goal, I was wrong. I can’t tell you Salah’s numbers tbh.
I’m not sure why you’re so confrontational all the time lad, relax. Some guy passive aggressively using emojis on an internet forum over my excitement about a new signing, congrats.
Anyway back to Antony. . .
If there was ever a reason to sack ten hag it would be with the hope that he would be naive enough to want to bring Antony over to his next club he manages seeing as he believes he can be unstoppable and the fastest player over the first 10 yards
Why so serious? I’m taking the piss dude, it’s funny. The emojis signify that I’m not entirely serious or mean anything by it. The last line was a reference to Mourinhos paddy power ad.
Likewise, relax. It’s just banter on an internet forum. Who cares what I think, really?
Antony has better close control and can play a possession based game far better than James ever could. James is perfect for counter attacking football or playing against teams that play a high line.
Don't get me wrong I can't stand Antony but I do believe he's a far better footballer than Dan James.
No way - he’s been disappointing but he was part of a relatively successful team 1st season and scored a couple of big goals.
Nothing beats Alvarez for Sunderland. They loaned him for £1m, he did his knee in so they tried to get out of their option to buy, ended up having to pay ~£10m but hadn’t offered him a contract so he signed on a free for Sampdoria. Sunderland then got sued successfully by the player.
That is not basics is it?
Better close control is all that he has on James and if a possession based game is not trying anything creative and just passing the ball backwards and stifling attacks then he has Dan covered there as well.
He scored like 3 goals and got 1 assist or something, and was largely really poor. He was valued at £25m and we paid 3.5 times that, and 8x'ed his wages. He's likely going to leave this summer after 0 goals and 0 assists in the PL. How can you argue Alvarez is worse?
Read the post? Antony basically has just been an expensive player who has disappointed, just because the club chose to overpay him isn't really a factor in how he performed. He's become a bit of a pin up scapegoat of the Ten Hag era, he's basically just a hard working but average player we overpaid for.He scored like 3 goals and got 1 assist or something, and was largely really poor. He was valued at £25m and we paid 3.5 times that, and 8x'ed his wages. He's likely going to leave this summer after 0 goals and 0 assists in the PL. How can you argue Alvarez is worse?
I'm not sure how you aren't understanding how ridiculous the Alvarez situation was. They got forced to pay £10m for a player who left immediately on a free. Then he sued them.
Obviously we didn’t. Because we paid £86m, and no doubt still expected success on the deal. Maybe someone at the club thought he was a 25m player, but that doesn’t make it ‘United’s valuation This is just one of those things that gets perpetuated. Like ‘Ajax quoted us 40m earlier in the summer’. No they didn’t. All that happened is the press speculated that’s what he would cost. Ajax never wanted to lose him that year and I saw reports from early saying it would take a ridiculous fee to force their hand.
And you have no idea how the conversation went. You don’t know whether we arrived at 200k from initial demands of 270k. You have no idea whether 200k is 130k basic and 70k bonus/image rights. I still maintain his previous salary is ridiculous. A team that signs Haaland does not need to just offer him a bit more than Dortmund paid him. They had to pay him his worth. I imagine PSG increased Mbappé salary about 50x. Antony’s profile had grown, and he was seen as one of the most promising young forwards at the time. He was a Brazil international, and was linked with United, Liverpool and Barcelona.
Employers ask what your existing salary is, but if you know your worth you simply tell them what tour salary expectations are and if they really want you they will pay it if it is in line with their structure.
Ultimately, the deal was a disaster, but the figures involved, both in terms of fee and salary are not unheard of figures for top players, particularly forwards. The only issue with the numbers is that we clearly misjudged the player. But we’re talking about an 84m forward, not a 200m one. Good players cost that amount. Clearly, we thought he was one of those, that’s where the problem lies, but if we had known what we now know - there is no amount that would have been considered fair. Which is why you don’t see us targeting 25m forwards for the first team because we would see them as not good enough. Antony is one of those, but we obviously didn’t think he was one of those.
The next manager won't have any use for him.
Omar Berrada will immediately identify him as not good enough for the PL.
Antony is a goner, it's all just a matter of time now. Maybe in January 2025.
Omar Berrada will immediately identify him as not good enough for the PL.
Antony is a goner, it's all just a matter of time now. Maybe in January 2025.
He is a far better footballer, but is he more effective as one? Antony's close control is actually very good, and his short passing is also to a high level. However, he doesn't really progress play much, and there's very little substance to his game. His shots are weak, even when over-hit. His passes are accurate but slow. His crosses are, well almost non-existent.
In 45 matches in the PL, Antony has the following:
4 goals and 2 assists
In 106 appearances in the PL, James has the following:
12 goals and 12 assists
Can't say James is brilliant, but he's still more productive than Antony. In his first season for United, he played 33 matches, scored 3 goals and had 6 assists in the PL. Antony had 4 goals and 2 assists in his first season with 25 matches. The number of assists is the main worry with him. He doesn't create nearly enough chances, often ruins counter attacks, and his final ball is downright atrocious at this level.
I read the post and I disagree. The most predominant factor in determining whether a transfer is bust or not is the cost, the wages, and how they performed. You can't simply dismiss those because it doesn't suit your argument. Just because Alvarez was a weird edge case doesn't somehow make it worse.
. . .Why so serious? I’m taking the piss dude, it’s funny. The emojis signify that I’m not entirely serious or mean anything by it. The last line was a reference to Mourinhos paddy power ad.
Likewise, relax. It’s just banter on an internet forum. Who cares what I think, really?
. . .sarcasm and mockery. If you say so.
All great stuff, but I’ll never ever be convinced we should have put him on £200k a week. Hindsight or not. I thought it was the wrong decision at the time, and definitely think it’s the wrong decision now. Am actually amazed at the amount of people defending this. For me it was absolutely endemic of our post-Fergie transfer business.
It's mind boggling that Antony was our first ever player to score in their first 3 Premier League games.
He has 1 goal in 42 games since!
Not dismissing, I just think Alvarez is much worse, it's ok to disagree. You also have to factor in that United have a lot of money, relatively, is Antony's fee now better or worse than the below for Sunderland in 2014:
So they loaned a player for £1m, he scored one goal in 17 games. Then they had to fork out the above to basically get rid of him.
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