Antony dos Santos (Out)

[Paul778]

Hel probably need to replace Rashford or be in the shop window. Should he say hes well shite so the offers come pouring in?

To be honest each week we've got probably 12 of the 15 players (including subs) who are providing a sub 6/10 performance either in terms of effort or ability.

If we are having a fire sale we should prioritise the underachievers who we can get good money for and hope that our performance pick up with only 4 of the 12 players underperforming. Unfortunately it means we're going to have to try and play Anthony into form.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

We need patience. No defender will be able to stop him once he gets going.

It doesn’t matter how quick he is over the first 10 yards. Any advantage that may give him is nullified when he proceeds to stand on the ball and attempt to beat his man a further 2-3 times before losing it. Or he doesn’t even try to beat his man at all and simply turns around and pass it back to the RB.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Hel probably need to replace Rashford or be in the shop window. Should he say hes well shite so the offers come pouring in?

“I cannot believe I bought this lad, he only has one working leg! I knew I shouldn’t have gone in hard on those suspicious Amsterdam brownies before the negotiation. Any offers?”

 

[V.O.]

He scored in his first 3 league games.. Wasn't he the first player for us to do so? He might not be world class, but clearly confidence plays a part and he is going through a really low point right now.. he is better than this.. (ie, he isnt useless)

We cant keep waiting for players who cant stand the pressure or the attention, so I'm fine with him leaving, but he isnt as bad as some are making him out to be..
hopefully he can put together some good performances and get a decent move..

or.. very unlikely, but maybe recover his career here.

Yeah, I think he's a potentially decent player in appalling form rather than an appalling player. I think the legal/personal issues have rocked his confidence massively.

He'll never be worth the 80m or whatever, but I think at his top level he could be a Park/Valencia/Firmino type work rate merchant and solid supporting act to more productive players. He at least seems like he's got the mentality and desire to get out of this slump, whether it's for us or someone else, unlike Sancho who seems like he'd rather spend all day wanking and playing FIFA.

 

[Pughnichi]

How the feck can you jump from 25k at Ajax to 200k at Utd. That’s apparently what the numbers are…we’ll never now for certain.

how on earth CAN that happen. Absolute gross negligence from the club…and it’s happened time and time again. Players/agents seemingly think ‘oh it’s Utd, we’ll start negotiating at 200k’

Ineos needs to end this madness

if you’re on 25k surely we should have some structure that won’t allow such excessive jumps. Like a 400% rise limit. Even that is mental. But hey if they don’t want 100k when currently on 25k…we should walk away!!

Antony should have been happy with 25k coming from Utd to Ajax. Start calling their bluff

and if they’re a goat…structured pay increase if/when targets achieved.

We just give it away! It irritates me. Of course it’s not my money…but it severely hurts is with FFP in play

 

[Pughnichi]

It doesn’t matter how quick he is over the first 10 yards. Any advantage that may give him is nullified when he proceeds to stand on the ball and attempt to beat his man a further 2-3 times before losing it. Or he doesn’t even try to beat his man at all and simply turns around and pass it back to the RB.

Is he even that fast over first 10 yards. Don’t recall him beating his man too often with pace.

 

[Mainoonited]

Let's just hope it happens.

 

[big_jeffstar]

I’m not a massive fan of Anthony or anything, but the way the media absolutely tore him to shreds for doing that spin thing was embarassing, it’s like they don’t want the game to be fun to watch anymore.. he’s Brazilian ffs!
I don’t think he’s really been the same player since that game, he seems a bit scared of using the limited talents he does actually have

 

[redcucumber]

I've never understood this about us. It's like we congratulate players for making it by giving them a huge salary.

Just bloody pay them the minimum to come. We might lose a few to other clubs but it'll serve us better in the long run.

Exactly. Based on his previous salary and desperation to come, he'd have snapped our hand off at 50/60k you'd imagine. Boils my blood we absolutely just piss money away like that and now we're starting to pay the price with being unable to shift them on those salaries and PSR/FFP being more of an issue!

I'd absolutely kill to know the rationale. On what planet does going from 19k to 150-200k make sense? I will never understand the fecking logic.

 

[Pughnichi]

We are living in La La Land if we think we can sell him for any sort of money. That stupid contract we gave him @10x his Ajax salary is going to be the biggest hindrance in moving him on.

I mentioned in another thread earlier, both him and Sancho will have to be put on the Kepa/Pepe/Ndombele plan where they go out on loans to different clubs for the remaining time left on their contracts. I would be shocked if we can sell them for any sort of money.

Could also refuse to loan them…and refuse to play them. The player would then likely push for a move and accept less.

If they’re out on loan still collecting 200k they ain’t gonna be in much of a rush to sort their next move/contract out

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I don’t see how this ends in anything other than a loan where we hope the team getting him cover most of his wages, then hopefully he performs well to be sold the year after.

I don’t see how anyone pays even half what we did for this guy.

Now’s the time for Ineos to cut their losses on him though, admit it was a colossal failure of the previous regime & move on otherwise it risks become Donny Part 2.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

He was on £19k per week at Ajax. Whose fecking idea was it to 10x his salary when he was desperate to come?!

Love or hate Ineos, I genuinely think those days are done for now. Thank feck.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Could also refuse to loan them…and refuse to play them. The player would then likely push for a move and accept less.

If they’re out on loan still collecting 200k they ain’t gonna be in much of a rush to sort their next move/contract out

 

[Pughnichi]

He went as far as to refuse to train to make sure the transfer happened.

maybe that was after terms were agreed and of course he would force the move

even doubling his salary you’d think he’d force the move though.

Therein lies the problem. If a player is frozen out, doesn’t play for 12 months and still happy to sit around collecting cash… that raises even more questions about any reports we might have had about his attitude.

although as I type…’reports on a players attitude!!’…that all sounds too thorough and sensible for our transfer strategy.

 

[Lash]

Yeah, I think he's a potentially decent player in appalling form rather than an appalling player. I think the legal/personal issues have rocked his confidence massively.

He'll never be worth the 80m or whatever, but I think at his top level he could be a Park/Valencia/Firmino type work rate merchant and solid supporting act to more productive players. He at least seems like he's got the mentality and desire to get out of this slump, whether it's for us or someone else, unlike Sancho who seems like he'd rather spend all day wanking and playing FIFA.

Agreed. There's definitely a good player in there, hard to say if he's hit his ceiling, I'd be surprised if he had. Also his flaws seem so coachable (ie don't cut in every single fecking time), maybe it is just all time low confidence.

 

[Rozay]

How the feck can you jump from 25k at Ajax to 200k at Utd. That’s apparently what the numbers are…we’ll never now for certain.

how on earth CAN that happen. Absolute gross negligence from the club…and it’s happened time and time again. Players/agents seemingly think ‘oh it’s Utd, we’ll start negotiating at 200k’

Ineos needs to end this madness

if you’re on 25k surely we should have some structure that won’t allow such excessive jumps. Like a 400% rise limit. Even that is mental. But hey if they don’t want 100k when currently on 25k…we should walk away!!

Antony should have been happy with 25k coming from Utd to Ajax. Start calling their bluff

and if they’re a goat…structured pay increase if/when targets achieved.

We just give it away! It irritates me. Of course it’s not my money…but it severely hurts is with FFP in play

Frenkie de Jong got an even bigger jump from Ajax to Barcelona, and De Ligt got one similar to Antony. I have no idea why people are so fixated with his former salary. He was at a low paying club. Haaland was not paid with any relation to his salary at his former club when he joined City. It’s totally irrelevant.

He was a player we saw to be worth 90m. A 90m being paid 200k is perfectly normal. A Brazilian international forward at that. The problem is that he hasn’t performed. Which is after the fact. The way he’s played, none of us would be happy to offer him 100k even now. If he was paid in line with his performances, he’s be on about 30-40k. We can’t go back due to his performances and say that is really what we should have offered him. He was a big money signing expected to be a fixture in our forward line for years. At 200k he was the lowest paid senior forward after Rashford, Sancho and Martial. Heaven knows what was expected.

 

[Orange Tree]

I know a club in southern France who could use a right winger. Or maybe Switzerland is more to his style.

 

[Pughnichi]

Frenkie de Jong got an even bigger jump from Ajax to Barcelona, and De Ligt got one similar to Antony. I have no idea why people are so fixated with his former salary. He was at a low paying club. Haaland was not paid with any relation to his salary at his former club when he joined City. It’s totally irrelevant.

He was a player we saw to be worth 90m. A 90m being paid 200k is perfectly normal. A Brazilian international forward at that. The problem is that he hasn’t performed. Which is after the fact. The way he’s played, none of us would be happy to offer him 100k even now. If he was paid in line with his performances, he’s be on about 30-40k. We can’t go back due to his performances and say that is really what we should have offered him. He was a big money signing expected to be a fixture in our forward line for years. At 200k he was the lowest paid senior forward after Rashford, Sancho and Martial. Heaven knows what was expected.

Granted they’re not the ones finalising the deal but our scouts valued him at 25M and he’s performed accordingly to that figure.

 

[StamsShinyHead]

Probably the worst ever PL signing.
Shocking that ETH previously managed him and still thought it was a good idea.

Nicolas Pepe could be up there, but he's truly been woeful.

 

[El Zoido]

Frenkie de Jong got an even bigger jump from Ajax to Barcelona, and De Ligt got one similar to Antony. I have no idea why people are so fixated with his former salary. He was at a low paying club. Haaland was not paid with any relation to his salary at his former club when he joined City. It’s totally irrelevant.

He was a player we saw to be worth 90m. A 90m being paid 200k is perfectly normal. A Brazilian international forward at that. The problem is that he hasn’t performed. Which is after the fact. The way he’s played, none of us would be happy to offer him 100k even now. If he was paid in line with his performances, he’s be on about 30-40k. We can’t go back due to his performances and say that is really what we should have offered him. He was a big money signing expected to be a fixture in our forward line for years. At 200k he was the lowest paid senior forward after Rashford, Sancho and Martial. Heaven knows what was expected.

It’s not irrelevant, we had the power here. He’d have joined for a lot less. Offering him that much was a monumentally stupid decision, right in line with the way this club has operated for the last decade. Most of us knew we were getting mugged off at the time, the club was just once again desperate in the transfer market and we got taken advantage of. We grossly overpaid on the transfer fee and grossly overpaid on his salary, it’s just a massive feck up plain and simple.

 

[TheReligion]

Some Captain Hindsight’s in here. Give yourselves a big pat on the back if it makes you feel better.

Antony is a much better player than he’s showing. His start was quite promising but what we’ve seen since is unacceptable given the role he has in the team and the money spent. Why that’s happened I don’t know (confidence, private life, being found out..possibly a combination of them all).

The club should look at other options. Both Sancho, and Antony, have really let us down and caused us no end of issues given the investment we’ve made in to both as creative talents. Our academy has produced better quality in those areas (Garnacho, Greenwood, Elanga) and two of those are no longer with us.

One thing I will say is why do posters keep declaring ‘those that signed him must go’ when we already know INEOS are totally overhauling this department? Seems daft to drone on about it when we all know the whole set up is being changed and INEOS have openly said things haven’t been fit for purpose.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Some Captain Hindsight’s in here. Give yourselves a big pat on the back if it makes you feel better.

Hindsight? Many of us were ringing the warning bells before he was signed. Here are some of my posts from the Antony transfer thread, just as one example:

Very nervous about this transfer. Don't like the idea of the manager also being the chief scout and DOF for the club.

What gives you the impression the club hierarchy knows what they're doing? They've hemorrhaged over a billion in the last 10 years.

I'm not advocating spending big money on "dead certs". I just think it's suicidal to spend a massive fee on a player from the Dutch league who may not even come good.

Because the club doesn't have unlimited funds and we've already hemorrhaged over a billion in the last 10 years. I'd rather walk away, invest in the recruitment department, and start preparing for next summer.

We have less than $100m cash on hand (our balance sheet is public information). This transfer will be paid in installments and will hamper our ability to spend in future windows.

 

[lex talionis]

A minimum requirement for a RW is the ability to beat your defender. If your success rate at best defenders is under 10%, there’s a problem. Antony doesn’t even try to beat defenders any more.

 

[TheReligion]

Hindsight? Many of us were ringing the warning bells before he was signed. Here are some of my posts from the Antony transfer thread, just as one example:

*pat on the back *

 

[Member 109952]

Outside of Saudi we're not getting over £15m from him. To be honest I'd be happy with that just to recoup something and get the wages of the books.

His level is what he's showing, and I called it out prior to us signing him repeatedly in his transfer thread (see the thread if you want). All it takes is watching his goals + assist videos for Ajax in his final season there to his limitations:

• Almost never dribbled past a man from a standing start, due to a lack of acceleration. He's fast when he's already sprinting, but like Sancho that's useless against tight defences. Imagine Messi or Neymar without acceleration..
• Always cuts in, didn't see him go on the outside once. Never used his right food
• 99% of his goals and assists were cutting in and shooting or crossing
• For the majority of his goals and assists, the defending / goal keeping was poor

People get too deceived by stats in crap defensive leagues and/or playing for a dominant attacking team, combined with some starts for a national team and think this player must be good. The eye test is still king

 

[Big Ben Foster]

*pat on the back *

How does it feel to be wrong, as usual?

 

[Rozay]

It’s not irrelevant, we had the power here. He’d have joined for a lot less. Offering him that much was a monumentally stupid decision, right in line with the way this club has operated for the last decade. Most of us knew we were getting mugged off at the time, the club was just once again desperate in the transfer market and we got taken advantage of. We grossly overpaid on the transfer fee and grossly overpaid on his salary, it’s just a massive feck up plain and simple.

After. The. Fact.

The point is, at the time, the club obviously thought he was worth 86m. On that basis, it is unsurprising that they also thought he was worth 200k p/w. If he lived up to his transfer fee, 200k would be considered underpaid quite frankly.

I’m sure when he was signed, it was nobody’s intention for him to be shit.

 

[Unam333]

Hindsight? Many of us were ringing the warning bells before he was signed. Here are some of my posts from the Antony transfer thread, just as one example:

Well done for stating the obvious. Of course there's always a certain risk to spend massive money on an Eredivisie player who is unproven in the PL.

Where do you say that Antony would possibly have a hard time in the PL? In those quotes you said nothing about having doubts about his footballing quality.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Well done for stating the obvious. Of course there's always a certain risk to spend massive money on an Eredivisie player who is unproven in the PL.

Where do you say that Antony would possibly have a hard time in the PL? In those quotes you said nothing about having doubts about his footballing quality.

That's the whole point I was getting at! It's not a matter of being "captain hindsight" as the other poster alluded to. Anybody who was paying attention could've seen what was going on.

 

[PoTMS]

I've been waiting my whole life for this thread. Poor man's Obertan.

 

[TheReligion]

How does it feel to be wrong, as usual?

You are odd…

Anyway.

 

[Unam333]

That's the whole point I was getting at! It's not a matter of being "captain hindsight" as the other poster alluded to. Anybody who was paying attention could've seen what was going on.

Again, well done then. *Pats on back*
Feeling better now?

There's always a risk bringing over players from an inferior league, even a football noob knows that, but you have to look at the individual player's quality.

In those quotes you never mentioned about Antony's quality at Ajax.

Some players you just know they would have a good chance of making it in the PL (Gakpo and Robben for example), then you have players you feel very lukewarm about them.

Give us other quotes you made in the past about your assessment about Antony dos Santos' footballing ability.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Again, well done then. *Pats on back*
Feeling better now?

There's always a risk bringing over players from an inferior league, even a football noob knows that, but you have to look at the individual player's quality.

In those quotes you never mentioned about Antony's quality at Ajax.

Some players you just know they would have a good chance of making it in the PL (Gakpo and Robben for example), then you have players you feel very lukewarm about then.

Give us other quotes you made in the past about your assessment about Antony dos Santos' footballing ability.

I did say we're paying a ton of money for a player who may not come good, but that's not the point I was addressing. You're essentially making my entire point for me.

Other poster: "Hindsight is 20/20, nobody knew this transfer wouldn't have worked out"
Me: "Not true, it was obvious to many posters that this transfer would've been a huge risk"
You: "Way to state the obvious! Of course this transfer was risky!"

 

[Unam333]

I did say we're paying a ton of money for a player who may not come good, but that's not the point I was addressing. You're essentially making my entire point for me.

Other poster: "Hindsight is 20/20, nobody knew this transfer wouldn't have worked out"
Me: "Not true, it was obvious to many posters that this transfer would've been a huge risk"
You: "Way to state the obvious! Of course this transfer was risky!"

You didn't answer my question...

 

[TheReligion]

You didn't answer my question...

Why you wasting your time with them?

They are too smart for us thickos.

 

[Unam333]

Why you wasting your time with them?

They are too smart for us thickos.

Agreed. Waste of time this is. It's just silly bigging yourself up.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It doesn’t matter how quick he is over the first 10 yards. Any advantage that may give him is nullified when he proceeds to stand on the ball and attempt to beat his man a further 2-3 times before losing it. Or he doesn’t even try to beat his man at all and simply turns around and pass it back to the RB.

For me the initial acceleration is the most important thing for a dribbler who wants to take people on, think of someone like Hazard - explosive over the first 10-20metres but won't be winning any 100m races. Antony just doesn't have that though, he's not got amazing acceleration or top speed.

 

[Adamsk7]

He’s that bad that if Ten Hag persists with him I’d like to see the manager sacked just to get rid of Antony

 

[TheReligion]

Agreed. Waste of time this is. It's just silly bigging yourself up.

They are likely hoping Dave Brailsford reads the Caf so they can try for a job next season.

Mega brain.

 

[Plant0x84]

Look how excited we all were when he signed: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antony-official-manchester-united-player.472751/post-29411846

This is a particular highlight of that thread. Kudos to @AFC NimbleThumb