[Kaos]

Well if eth really doesn't want our wingers to take on players then we can expect a lot more frustrating nights against low block teams. Our full backs offer very little going forward so inverted wingers just means we end up very narrow. However, rashford was clearly much more willing to run at players than Anthony so not sure I believe it was instruction.

The comparison with city doesn't pass judgement for me, the likes of Grealish, Forden, silva and maheez regularly go past players with the ball..

It does seem like there is an eagerness to overhype Anthony's performances to date on here. I feel like there is (hopefully) a lot more to come from him that we haven't seen yet

Low block teams will tend to double up on wingers, so them going hero mode and trying to dribble past them and the entire defence like its FIFA is futile at best. The way you unlock those is quick passing and moving, something which Ten Hags seems to be incrementally drilling into the players.

Antony was signed because we needed an outlet on the right who's happy to start wide in that position and be an available option to receive a pass. Prior to his signing we've just shoehorned players that who prefer to drift into the centre which doesn't really give us the option to stretch the play on both flanks. That's why he's been a key signing. He also offers us a goal threat from the right - something we've been lacking for years.

 

[Matt851]

Low block teams will tend to double up on wingers, so them going hero mode and trying to dribble past them and the entire defence like its FIFA is futile at best. The way you unlock those is quick passing and moving, something which Ten Hags seems to be incrementally drilling into the players.

Antony was signed because we needed an outlet on the right who's happy to start wide in that position and be an available option to receive a pass. Prior to his signing we've just shoehorned players that who prefer to drift into the centre which doesn't really give us the option to stretch the play on both flanks. That's why he's been a key signing. He also offers us a goal threat from the right - something we've been lacking for years.

Well rashfords finishing was poor last night but he was our most dangerous player due to his ability to go past people. Not convinced our players are technically good enough to rely solely on passing and movement to break teams down

 

[Gordon Godot]

Low block teams will tend to double up on wingers, so them going hero mode and trying to dribble past them and the entire defence like its FIFA is futile at best. The way you unlock those is quick passing and moving, something which Ten Hags seems to be incrementally drilling into the players.

Antony was signed because we needed an outlet on the right who's happy to start wide in that position and be an available option to receive a pass. Prior to his signing we've just shoehorned players that who prefer to drift into the centre which doesn't really give us the option to stretch the play on both flanks. That's why he's been a key signing. He also offers us a goal threat from the right - something we've been lacking for years.

I agree with many on here. Given the fee (and the fee matters) its disappointing to see how unable to take on the full back he seems to be. Last night the full back got in his face whenever antony got the ball, and Antony seemed clueless how to get past him. One time he did try a sprint past, but he seems to lack the effective moves to pass a defender. If he could have done then suddenly the oppo's whole defensive line is exposed. Remember the quality of the defenders he faced last night was below even the Dutch league. Its depressing we seem to have 2 wide players, bought at great cost who can't beat a player and get to the byline. City have several players who can do it regularly, not sure we really have a single player now in the starting 11 who can consistently beat an opponent. Not good.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

It's a pretty essential part of being a wide player. You put your opposite man on the back foot and give him something to worry about. In his highlights he was running up dudes for Ajax so dunno whats going on there





People on here trying to convince themselves that wide players not attempting to take on their man is somehow preferred and normal. Passing backwards and not attacking your fullback is somehow the staple. I genuinely feel these dudes are scared at the minute. In my playing days as a FB I would love for a wide player to pass back every time I closed him down. I would think he was terrified of me

tune will likely change once the new signing shine wears off if he’s still avoiding taking on his man

 

[Offsideagain]

I know that Antony has only been here for five minutes, but for £86m I expected that he could at least tear a fullback or two a new one. Granted he has scored some good goals cutting in from the right and curling the ball into the top corner, but defenders will know that now. Last night against ‘weaker’ opposition, I thought the whole team struggled to find a way through the green wall. Reminded me of Alan Pardew’s Newcastle a few seasons ago when we had dozens of shots in a 1-1 draw and they had ten men. We got away with one last night.

 

[Real Name]

It's a pretty essential part of being a wide player. You put your opposite man on the back foot and give him something to worry about. In his highlights he was running up dudes for Ajax so dunno whats going on there

He's adapting. Is there a deadline in which he needs to start taking players on. Also yesterday game wasnt ideal for taking players on, far from it.

 

[Idxomer]

I don't think he had a particularly good game but he attempted 7 dribbles, it's not true that he wasn't taking on his man.

 

[flappyjay]

Isn't this what people moaned about Scholes saying?

I haven't really read what Scholes said I just saw the headline about him criticising the wingers.

 

[flappyjay]

Well rashfords finishing was poor last night but he was our most dangerous player due to his ability to go past people. Not convinced our players are technically good enough to rely solely on passing and movement to break teams down

The irony being that Sanchos dribbling broke omanias low block for mctominays goal.

 

[Stacks]

He's adapting. Is there a deadlin in which he needs to start taking players on. Also yesterday game wasnt ideal for taking players on, far from it.

there is no deadline. Just we were sold the idea he is a livewire with the ball at his feet and his highlights show him skipping past players and doing all these flairy tricks so everyone was getting excited then when the player arrives he stands on the ball for a few seconds and then passes it backwards or sideways. Bit of a different product really. But again it could just be initial nerves and maybe they will wear off. Not everyone is gonna arrive like Martial did

 

[kthanksbye]

Think the fullback got into his head yesterday. He was quick and he got really tight, Antony a lot of times just stood still and waited, get's really hard to beat a man when you come to a halt, a couple of times the fullback was really close and there was considerable space between him and the CB, space Antony could've used, he also didn't make any attempts to go down the line outside the fullback, there's no reason for the fullback to buy that dummy then, if the only thing he's doing is cutting in all the time.

 

[Real Name]

there is no deadline. Just we were sold the idea he is a livewire with the ball at his feet and his highlights show him skipping past players and doing all these flairy tricks so everyone was getting excited then when the player arrives he stands on the ball for a few seconds and then passes it backwards or sideways. Bit of a different product really. But again it could just be initial nerves and maybe they will wear off. Not everyone is gonna arrive like Martial did

Exactly. And some players flourish at new clubs at later time. And its not as if he's been attrocius or anything.

 

[kouroux]

there is no deadline. Just we were sold the idea he is a livewire with the ball at his feet and his highlights show him skipping past players and doing all these flairy tricks so everyone was getting excited then when the player arrives he stands on the ball for a few seconds and then passes it backwards or sideways. Bit of a different product really. But again it could just be initial nerves and maybe they will wear off. Not everyone is gonna arrive like Martial did

Sold by who ? Nothing beats making your own opinion on a player, whatever was done in previous clubs and no matter how impressive the YouTube compilations may look like, it's meaningless

 

[Oranges038]

I haven't really read what Scholes said I just saw the headline about him criticising the wingers.

Called him a one trick but named 2 tricks. One of them was turn and pass it back the other was cut inside and shoot.

 

[Stacks]

Sold by who ? Nothing beats making your own opinion on a player, whatever was done in previous clubs and no matter how impressive the YouTube compilations may look like, it's meaningless

Sold by fans on redcafe. what kind of player did you think he was? describe to exactly based of his Ajax and Brazil history

 

[acnumber9]

Harsh. The price tag shouldn't be used to judge him. Shouldn't even be in conversations. I thought we all knew the late window circumstance is what made it so, the fee was never meant to represent his pure value. Even Malacia could have gone for 50m if we approached them that late and desperate. The fee should only be brought up when talking about our genius hierarchy. We can't be asking Antony to be a 100m player when it's us who didn't do our homework on time.

It’s not a case of using his fee to judge him. More a case of determining whether it was right to use so much of our budget on one player.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Sold by fans on redcafe. what kind of player did you think he was? describe to exactly based of his Ajax and Brazil history

He didn't look that explosive based on the clips either. More of a mix of technical quality, good acceleration and the ability to link up well - a bit like Sancho but with lower creativity (as compared to Dortmund days) and higher work rate and trickery.

 

[acnumber9]

He also offers us a goal threat from the right - something we've been lacking for years.

We had a goal threat from the right just 9 months ago.

 

[crossy1686]

I know that Antony has only been here for five minutes, but for £86m I expected that he could at least tear a fullback or two a new one. Granted he has scored some good goals cutting in from the right and curling the ball into the top corner, but defenders will know that now. Last night against ‘weaker’ opposition, I thought the whole team struggled to find a way through the green wall. Reminded me of Alan Pardew’s Newcastle a few seasons ago when we had dozens of shots in a 1-1 draw and they had ten men. We got away with one last night.

And herein lies the problem with inflated fees. Expectation to do more than just be good at one or two things.

 

[evil_geko]

I see price tag merchants are still out in full force, bloody hell, how can you look at players in such simplistic manner I will never know.

 

[Rossa]

This is the type of player I hoped we signed:


A winger who instantly turns towards goal and runs at defenders. Not saying it will work every time, but having that player just run at defenders is a sight to behold. I know everyone wants tiki-taka in and around the box, but it's boring, tedious and having a winger that can do things on his own create a lot of space for others. We haven't really had one since Valencia left. Nani was also similar in that he always first and foremost looked to move forward with the ball. Antony looks like he is undecided what to do when he receives it, whereas the others played more on instinct. I don't think it has anything to do with speed either.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I see price tag merchants are still out in full force, bloody hell, how can you look at players in such simplistic manner I will never know.

I think that he will be top player for us but price does matter. In everything. That is how world works.
For 100 mil you want flawless product. For 2 mil (Dubravka) you don't care is he playing, how he is playing or will he play. Do you have same expectations for Sancho and Pellistri? For Casemiro and McT? For Maguire and Tuanzebe?
Price does matter.

 

[acnumber9]

I see price tag merchants are still out in full force, bloody hell, how can you look at players in such simplistic manner I will never know.

Price impacts other areas of the squad. Especially when it didn’t just prohibit us this summer but also next. It would be fecking stupid not to consider it’s importance.

 

[Drizzle]

This is the type of player I hoped we signed:


A winger who instantly turns towards goal and runs at defenders. Not saying it will work every time, but having that player just run at defenders is a sight to behold. I know everyone wants tiki-taka in and around the box, but it's boring, tedious and having a winger that can do things on his own create a lot of space for others. We haven't really had one since Valencia left. Nani was also similar in that he always first and foremost looked to move forward with the ball. Antony looks like he is undecided what to do when he receives it, whereas the others played more on instinct. I don't think it has anything to do with speed either.

Re the Giggs comparison: of course Antony isn't and never will be as good as Giggs. No shame in that, few wingers around today are.

You'll note in that video how much of it is Giggs having space to run at in front of him, and being able to attack his fullback at top speed. This is a scenario that's unfortunately rare for us these days and Antony has mostly either faced a packed defence or been doubled up on.

I think you're right about his mentality, but it's not necessarily a bad thing - I think EtH values his ball retention. Imagine having Bruno, Rashford AND Antony all giving up possession throughout the game. He's a hardworking clever player, and I think he chooses his moments for risk. When we're better as a team and creating more space and movement up front we'll see Antony being much more dangerous.

 

[Stacks]

This is the type of player I hoped we signed:


A winger who instantly turns towards goal and runs at defenders. Not saying it will work every time, but having that player just run at defenders is a sight to behold. I know everyone wants tiki-taka in and around the box, but it's boring, tedious and having a winger that can do things on his own create a lot of space for others. We haven't really had one since Valencia left. Nani was also similar in that he always first and foremost looked to move forward with the ball. Antony looks like he is undecided what to do when he receives it, whereas the others played more on instinct. I don't think it has anything to do with speed either.

that's the dream but NONE of our new wide players are like this. Not even near the opponents area. they still prefer to just give it back. Its weird. May just be nerves as they want to play it safe until they are established but often new players want to show out and get the crowd off their feet and show what they can do. Them wingers still exist but we don't have them. Its funny as Man city have had direct dribblers out wide and even in the middle of midfield, since Pep has been here and they still manage to dominate possession so its not either or. Just need bravery and encouragement

 

[bosnian_red]

that's the dream but NONE of our new wide players are like this. Not even near the opponents area. they still prefer to just give it back. Its weird. May just be nerves as they want to play it safe until they are established but often new players want to show out and get the crowd off their feet and show what they can do. Them wingers still exist but we don't have them. Its funny as Man city have had direct dribblers out wide and even in the middle of midfield, since Pep has been here and they still manage to dominate possession so its not either or. Just need bravery and encouragement

It's picking and choosing your moments to drive at the defender. Peps City sides don't take on their fullbacks all that often, they overload the wide areas and just making combinations to get to the byline and play a cut back. Very hard to do, much more effective and consistent once you can. That's what Ten Hag is trying to implement too. Not a winger who will run at a defender every time he gets it, but keeping the ball, probing, recycling if they're doubled up, but yeah when you're 1v1 with space you have to take them on. It'll get there.

 

[kouroux]

Sold by fans on redcafe. what kind of player did you think he was? describe to exactly based of his Ajax and Brazil history

Honestly, there have been so many disappointing players we've signed over the years that I don't trust any compilation nor the word of any caftard. I prefer to make my own opinion after extensive viewing. So far, so good with Antony, I believe with time and getting used to, he will show us more and more qualities.
Man Utd always gets rinsed when it comes to signing, it'd be unfair on our players if that particular aspect of things is the main criterion to judge them on

 

[Andycoleno9]

Honestly, there have been so many disappointing players we've signed over the years that I don't trust any compilation nor the word of any caftard. I prefer to make my own opinion after extensive viewing. So far, so good with Antony, I believe with time and getting used to, he will show us more and more qualities.
Man Utd always gets rinsed when it comes to signing, it'd be unfair on our players if that particular aspect of things is the main criterion to judge them on

When summer window started i must admit that i wanted Antony over any player. And yes, it was based on youtube compilation and few games in CL. As a total sucker for skill, i thought that he will be game changer who will be our main weapon in attack.
I am still happy how he started his United career and i like his crossing and finishing but i really expected more dribbles by him.

Still, i have no doubt that we bought top class player.

 

[dinostar77]

When summer window started i must admit that i wanted Antony over any player. And yes, it was based on youtube compilation and few games in CL. As a total sucker for skill, i thought that he will be game changer who will be our main weapon in attack.
I am still happy how he started his United career and i like his crossing and finishing but i really expected more dribbles by him.

Still, i have no doubt that we bought top class player.

If you guys watched the antony analysis video that @raaes made on youtube, you'd realise just how important a proper overlapping fullback is to antony's game. Get the right fullback behind him who will overlap and create space and you'll get the best out of antony.

 

[KirkDuyt]

If you guys watched the antony analysis video that @raaes made on youtube, you'd realise just how important a proper overlapping fullback is to antony's game. Get the right fullback behind him who will overlap and create space and you'll get the best out of antony.

Dumfries, Dumfries, Dumfries.

 

[zab-judah]

If you guys watched the antony analysis video that @raaes made on youtube, you'd realise just how important a proper overlapping fullback is to antony's game. Get the right fullback behind him who will overlap and create space and you'll get the best out of antony.

Same with Sancho, he wouldn´t have been half as good for Dortmund if it hadn´t been for Hakimi, being a proper fullback, behind him.

 

[Adnan]

If you guys watched the antony analysis video that @raaes made on youtube, you'd realise just how important a proper overlapping fullback is to antony's game. Get the right fullback behind him who will overlap and create space and you'll get the best out of antony.

Dalot could do that and that hence isn't the issue. The issue has always been that we as a team have failed to impose ourselves on the opposition. If you watched ten Hag's Ajax or Favre's Dortmund, their teams had the ability to play the game in the opponents half by sacrificing defensive stability for goals. And that was due to committing players in the attacking third, which opened up extra passing options for the forwards.

So it didn't really matter if Antony was occupying the wide or half space because the volume of players committed into the opponents half meant the potential to overload and get in behind was always there which made players like Antony and Sancho more dangerous.

Ten Hag himself explains it below and we're a team working towards making the above a reality imo.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

it is funny to read all these comments about him not taking on his man enough

because it was the exact same criticism he got a lot of the time by Ajax fans.

He has some games where he takes on a man a lot, and a whole load of games where he seems to just always plays it safe unless there's a particular opportunity to take someone on, or when it's forced by circumstance

 

[El Jefe]

it is funny to read all these comments about him not taking on his man enough

because it was the exact same criticism he got a lot of the time by Ajax fans.

He has some games where he takes on a man a lot, and a whole load of games where he seems to just always plays it safe unless there's a particular opportunity to take someone on, or when it's forced by circumstance

I must admit it is quite annoying to watch at times. Some of the positions he's found himself in and decided not to directly attack his marker is inexcusable. I couldn't see the likes of Vinicius, Mbappe, Dembele, Martinelli or even players with less pace than the aforementioned like Kvara or Kulusevski not taking their man on and passing it backwards.

Even Pep who doesn't like aimless dribbling from his players encourages it when the winger is isolated 1v1 with his marker.

Sancho at least has the excuse of being a snail, I don't see the excuse for Antony.

 

[croadyman]

I must admit it is quite annoying to watch at times. Some of the positions he's found himself in and decided not to directly attack his marker is inexcusable. I couldn't see the likes of Vinicius, Mbappe, Dembele, Martinelli or even players with less pace than the aforementioned like Kvara or Kulusevski not taking their man on and passing it backwards.

Even Pep who doesn't like aimless dribbling from his players encourages it when the winger is isolated 1v1 with his marker.

Sancho at least has the excuse of being a snail, I don't see the excuse for Antony.

Yeah still think we won't see the best of him until we have quality RB who like others have said can provide that overload

 

[golden_blunder]

Regardless of all our opinions, ETH knows him inside out, rates him highly and brought him here. He knew what he was buying. So I think we need to be patient

 

[Olecurls99]

Dalot could do that and that hence isn't the issue. The issue has always been that we as a team have failed to impose ourselves on the opposition. If you watched ten Hag's Ajax or Favre's Dortmund, their teams had the ability to play the game in the opponents half by sacrificing defensive stability for goals. And that was due to committing players in the attacking third, which opened up extra passing options for the forwards.

So it didn't really matter if Antony was occupying the wide or half space because the volume of players committed into the opponents half meant the potential to overload and get in behind was always there which made players like Antony and Sancho more dangerous.

Ten Hag himself explains it below and we're a team working towards making the above a reality imo.

Yeah well said. At the moment he's facing a fb, a winger and a dm nearly every time he gets the ball. Moves need to be worked on where those defenders are moved around so beating a man can lead to him attacking the box. It'll come with game time. He's well able to beat 1 man

 

[Dannn411]

Wingers that have to wait for their full back to overlap before they can do anything are not real wingers and they are certainly not worth 80+ million pounds. If Ten Hag knew this all along and still allowed the club to spunk that much on him then this is on ten hag. The whole point of being a winger is to be able to get past your man with minimal help and create opportunities for the team. If you can't beat your man then at least be able to cross the ball very well. If you cannot offer either, then you are not a winger.

One of the most underrated qualities of a great winger is what they can bring to the defensive side of the team. By being able to create chances with minimal help, they allow the full back to focus on their primary job of defending and minimise instances of the team being caught out on counters because full backs are so high up the pitch. That is part of why we were so good defensively under Fergie when we had great wingers in the stable. They could create chances at will and we rarely got caught out on counters as a result.

 

[ForeverRed1]

He’s played a handful of games and already scored 3 goals. Give him a chance. I don’t understand how people can write him off already. Let him bed in a little first. Crikey.

 

[Suv666]

He’s played a handful of games and already scored 3 goals. Give him a chance. I don’t understand how people can write him off already. Let him bed in a little first. Crikey.

I hope this is the case. It could be that he’s afraid of losing the ball and being wasteful.