Yup, desperately hoping for no injuries tonight.
Anyways this isn't confirmed by the club, let's hope it isn't true.
Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request
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Yup, desperately hoping for no injuries tonight.
Anyways this isn't confirmed by the club, let's hope it isn't true.
Of course we will, but none of this means he hasn't been poor, just that Nani has been even poorer.
Going by stats, Valencia has one assist so far and that's it.
Regarding Valencia has been poor, this from the whoscored.com site.
http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/32
The match rating is per average and therefore Buttner is highest, since he has played one match and played wonderfully well. Most of the ratings are spot on. Rafael and Rio have been our two best players this season and this has been highlighted.
http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/32
The match rating is per average and therefore Buttner is highest, since he has played one match and played wonderfully well. Most of the ratings are spot on. Rafael and Rio have been our two best players this season and this has been highlighted.
So Valencia has been better than Scholes, Carrick and Kagawa?
I see from that, on average he's made one successful cross per game. 5/31 in the PL and 1/13 in the CL.
I see from that, on average he's made one successful cross per game. 5/31 in the PL and 1/13 in the CL.
Stats are only useful in relation to something else, nobody in the squad has more than one assist.
Ofcourse you fail to mention that out of all the attacking quartet he's been dispossessed the least, made the joint equal high key passes. His crossing has been poor though, nea doubt about that.
Oh I see, well in that case, going by KM's link there, Nani has more successful dribbles, far more key passes, more successful crosses, a slightly lower pass completion ratio, and pretty much the same passes per game, yet he's 10 ranks lower.
The general consensus however is that Nani has been the worse player, something I agree with, but it just shows that stats aren't everything and to be using them as a basis for Valencia being one of our better performers is a bit dumb.
From watching all our games I think he's been poor, and in the end, it's from watching the games themselves that we should draw our conclusions, not stats.
Nani has 5 key passes, Valencia has 7 key passes.
Nani's average passes per match is 27, Valencia's average passes per match is 45.
How on earth does that constitute pretty much the same passes per game?
So what has really happened to him then? Did he walked out on crutches yesteray? 
Not in the slightest, you can have one million watching the game, with one million seperate opinions. At the end of the day, stats is the only objevtive measure, be it biased or not. I won't succumb to discussions on what player is the best solely based on subjective opinions, everybody is entitled to their own. And what has Nani done exactly, except for frustrating fans, possibly completing dribbles after which he missplaces passes or erratically having shots in situation a simple pass would've contributed better to a goal scoring opportunity?
Great, here we go again.
Why does this keep happening? We're fecked with injuries every single season.
Let's hope it's nothing too serious.
Why does this keep happening? We're fecked with injuries every single season.
Let's hope it's nothing too serious.
He agreed Nani has been poor, continue with your straw man argument.
Stats are cool and all, but they should be analyzed in context (watching the game). Valencia has been poor this season. Why deny it? He's capable of much more.
Erm, that's in the PL. Did you just choose to leave the CL out? Nani's best game and Valencia's worst?
What are you on about? I haven't argued that Nani has been good, I agreed all this time that he's been worse than Valencia. The point of comparing their stats was because overall they are very similar, Valencia probably shading it because his are defensively better, which you'd expect. Therefore if these stats are to be taken seriously then they were both pretty much at the same level. But we all know that's not true, we know Nani has been worse.
Also, you do realise the huge loophole in your post, right? You say stats are the only way to truly measure performances yet you criticise Nani based on what you think you've seen him do as opposed to his actual stats that you quoted me on. Really now?
while stats may be the best thing to go by when judging a performance, it's important to put it into context.
For example, player A might have more passes than player B and therefore stat-wise had a better game in that aspect, however player B might have made more important passes, or generaly passes going forward as opposed to passes going sideways and backwards from player A.
Or perhaps player A might have completed more tackles, but the ones player B made might have been more important, last time I checked you don't get extra points in statistics for importance.
Really the best way to judge a player's performance is by watching him, stats might not lie exactly, but they sure as hell don't tell the whole story.
For example, player A might have more passes than player B and therefore stat-wise had a better game in that aspect, however player B might have made more important passes, or generaly passes going forward as opposed to passes going sideways and backwards from player A.
Or perhaps player A might have completed more tackles, but the ones player B made might have been more important, last time I checked you don't get extra points in statistics for importance.
Really the best way to judge a player's performance is by watching him, stats might not lie exactly, but they sure as hell don't tell the whole story.
Well Valencia isn't ever going to be dispossessed considering the fact he's a beast and faster than anyone else. He however just gets the ball and crosses it to pretty much no one this season. His cross to RvP was quality vs Southampton but he's not had a very good time this season but then he doesn't always start a season too strong.
The list I showed you was of PL only. Couldn't find the overall one. That's why I considered the stats for the PL. Thought it was a bit obvious, that. Not for you it seems.
Btw I showed that list to say that Valencia hasn't been poor at all, trust you to make it a Nani vs Valencia argument again.
I disagree, the relatively poor performance of the whole squad might taint your judgement. Below is breakdown of our best performers:
Valencia is placed 6th within the squad, Nani in comparison, is 16th. In theory that wouldn't even be enough to place him on the bench based on the highly sophisticated EA SPORTS Player Performance Index (PPI).
I have no idea how that related to my post. What did Nani have to do with anything?
Stats don't really say much, and even if we took them, he's playing the "6th" best, when we all admit that we've started the season playing poorly. Is that really good? In those stats he also seems to have a lot more minutes helping him, the 2 below him with less minutes have certainly started the season better.
As I said, Val has started the season poorly, no question in my eyes. But it's still a huge loss if he's out injured.
Any idea how long he is out for yet?
Dear god, click on the individual players and you'll see the overall stats, is that so hard? Is it not fairer to judge based on their overall appearances?
I have not turned this into a Nani v Valencia debate, I've repeatedly said Nani has been the worse player, I didn't at any point make a direct comparison as to who is the better player, I used their comparative stats simply to make a point that these stats do not mean everything. You could easily pick Scholes, Kagawa, whatever, all players rated lower than Valencia on that list who it is generally agreed have been better than him.
And for the record, it was Jacob who originally brought Nani into the equation when he posted his picture stating what their respective positions were on the list. All I did before that was make a joke about how they both get treated on here.
I also think you'll find that when people start direct Nani v Valencia debates I usually either stay away from them or tell them to feck off out of the Nani thread with them, because comparing the two has become a totally pointless affair. The last time I was in a debate was with that idiot Aaron (who is now banned) well over a year ago.
But hey, keep making stuff up, you're good at that.
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/antonio-valencia-279596/index77.html#post12296220
You said this, when people were talking about Valencia's poor form on the last page. I don't know what kind of obsession you've with Nani, but that was a stupid and out of place comment, bound to create some an argument. I mean why bring up Nani in a Valencia thread where it's not even related to him.
But yeah it's me who's making things up.
We always have Giggs. Fergie will trust him to go a full 90 every game on the wing
I think we have a few options: Kagawa, Buttner, Rafael, Giggs, and Welbeck spring to mind as options. It's not ideal but losing a winger is better than a central midfielder at this point.
I think we have a few options: Kagawa, Buttner, Rafael, Giggs, and Welbeck spring to mind as options. It's not ideal but losing a winger is better than a central midfielder at this point.
We always have Giggs. Fergie will trust him to go a full 90 every game on the wing
I think we have a few options: Kagawa, Buttner, Rafael, Giggs, and Welbeck spring to mind as options. It's not ideal but losing a winger is better than a central midfielder at this point.
Yeah I'm pretty sure we'll use Giggsy on the left and Nani on the right.
Rafael is not an option though with injuries to Smalling and Jones, we're already thin on RB.
Just ignore my entire post then.
How the feck did that spark a debate? You think Jacob's stat push came from that? All that happened was Maciek making another (pretty funny) post too.
This is from over a year ago, please do find me some posts by myself where I've started debates about who is the better player, go on, obviously there's loads out there in the last year or two, right?
How the feck did that spark a debate? You think Jacob's stat push came from that? All that happened was Maciek making another (pretty funny) post too.
Your point?
He keeps coming into a thread about Nani and blind out stating that Valencia is a better player, clearly trying to provoke people, over and over again.
it's also rather ironic that he states that nobody has bumped this thread after Valencia's performance last night and the fact that Nani didn't play.
I'm sure he'd bump the thread if it was the other way round.
This is from over a year ago, please do find me some posts by myself where I've started debates about who is the better player, go on, obviously there's loads out there in the last year or two, right?
So is he injured or not?
Val has been poor though how about reading less stats and watching more actual football?
His start of the season was nothing special, his performances were pretty much average, but he is obviously great players so looking through longer periods we will miss him, without a doubt. I hope he will be back soon though.
They have articles claiming they saw him walking out on crutches, and yet no pictures of him doing so. Hopefully it's rubbish.
You and me watch the same games, yet we have different opinions on the same issue. What other possible methods do you suggest we use to discuss since 'watching football' is too subjective? 'Watch football' is possibly one of the worst arguments one could use on a football forum.
This is on the "Today at Old Trafford" United blog:
http://www.manutd.com/en/Fanzone/Ne...y-at-old-trafford-manchester-united-blog.aspx
Stats when judging wingers is an equally bad tool to measure performances. Unless the striker puts the ball into the net when provided with a chance, the wingers can do feckall to improve their stats.
As far as am concerned, Nani and Valencia have been well below par this season. Much like the rest of the team. What i dont get is why fans cannot accept that without resorting to stats and comparing them to somehow score a point for one of them over the other. I mean come on, they've both been poor. Who gives a feck who's been less poor of the 2? They both need to improve a lot for us to do well this season.
Damn, KM has me on ignore cause he can't think of responses to my posts but I can't ignore him cause he's a moderator. The pain of it all!
Hope he's ok as he's a cracking player. Godfather is right though he has been going through a bit of a poor patch over the last few games. Class is permanent and all that.
So possibly 2 weeks out, not too bad.
That's Tottenham at home and Newcastle away then. And Cluj away in between these games, but it's a less important game now.
Should be ready after the international break, good news he won't be travelling to Ecuador.
The first game in my life I will see live and my favorite player is out... great, couldn't have been better.
On the plus mate you might see Rooney and van Persie paired up top together...
He doesn't seem to be injured to me, where are the news at?
Seen leaving Carrington on crutches seems to be the meat of it.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...tonio-valencia-and-nemanja-vidic-injured.aspx
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...tonio-valencia-and-nemanja-vidic-injured.aspx
Mark Ogden (Telegraph):
Antonio Valencia has told Ecuador he'll be fit for WC quals in 2 weeks. Bruised right instep, needs 1 week rest. SAF may say otherwise..
He's suspended, isn't he? But I guess it's a one-match ban, as he got two yellow cards, not a straight red.
Antonio Valencia has told Ecuador he'll be fit for WC quals in 2 weeks. Bruised right instep, needs 1 week rest. SAF may say otherwise..
He's suspended, isn't he? But I guess it's a one-match ban, as he got two yellow cards, not a straight red.
Even more on his injury from Sir Alex...
He's got an ankle injury. If he's not okay for tomorrow he should be okay for Tuesday [against Cluj].
He's got an ankle injury. If he's not okay for tomorrow he should be okay for Tuesday [against Cluj].
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