Jeeeez, he's a sprinter! I certainly would be interesting to see him flat out against Walcott - I think he beats Bale for pace! And his strength combined with his pace is terrifying!
Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request
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Jeeeez, he's a sprinter! I certainly would be interesting to see him flat out against Walcott - I think he beats Bale for pace! And his strength combined with his pace is terrifying!
His pace is terrifying, but I don't feel he uses it enough. Too often he will go for the safe option when he can clearly do so much more. I mean look at him go there
Fair play to Glenda Johnson there, gets proper taken out on the half way and still nearly manages to get back in.
Valencia's pace in that first burst is
Fair play to Glenda Johnson there, gets proper taken out on the half way and still nearly manages to get back in.
Valencia's pace in that first burst is
Well, Valencia is clearly slowing down quite a bit, just affording Johnson to get back in time to make the penalty - great job really
Valencia has a great engine and terrific speed - and I too wish he used it more - sometimes kick and run has a fantastic effect.
I wish he'd be more adventurous
He's the most one dimensional player I've seen at United.
He's the most one dimensional player I've seen at United.
He can be none-dimensional for all I care, as long as he continues to be the best winger in the league by some margin.
Well, Valencia is clearly slowing down quite a bit, just affording Johnson to get back in time to make the penalty - great job really
Valencia has a great engine and terrific speed - and I too wish he used it more - sometimes kick and run has a fantastic effect.
That's really just a very nice way of saying "Valencia fannied about a bit, which allowed Johnson to get back in and do something stupid, letting Tony off the hook!"
A part of me says that if he was more comfortable changing it up a bit (coming in onto his left etc.) it'd hugely benefit his game, especially as he gets older and loses a bit of pace. But on the other hand he's ridiculously effective for us as and out-and-out winger so if it ain't broke...
Also I think his style is pretty important to how we play, having him wide-out on the touchline stretches the play, as well as allowing Rafael to get into the kind of positions from which he scored against Liverpool.
Needs to become the best winger in the team first - Nani's comfortably better.
The only problem is I'm not sure if we're really suited to playing with out and out wingers anymore. It's just become so predictable. Even when we're controlling games it's: pass ball to scholes, who pings it to Valencia, who drills it across the box. ..
Yeah I get your point, but then there's an element of balance there because Young/Nani cut inside quite regularly on the other side. The obvious risk of encouraging Valencia to play a narrower game is that it'd be a waste of his talents, but it'd also mean the centre would be more congested (i.e - less space for the likes of Kagawa to shine).
That's really just a very nice way of saying "Valencia fannied about a bit, which allowed Johnson to get back in and do something stupid, letting Tony off the hook!"
I do like being nice though
That's the problem with Valencia when he's off form, he gets indecisive; he had a clear cut option of either crossing it to Giggs on the far side or 45 degrees back to RVP, then he went for the wrong option and was rewarded with a penalty, which to me seems OKish.
What the...?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...tonio-Valencia-injured-Manchester-United.html
"Antonio Valencia left the club’s Carrington training ground on crutches.
Valencia’s right foot is in a protective boot while United’s medical staff continue to assess the injury he suffered in Sunday’s victory at Liverpool"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...tonio-Valencia-injured-Manchester-United.html
"Antonio Valencia left the club’s Carrington training ground on crutches.
Valencia’s right foot is in a protective boot while United’s medical staff continue to assess the injury he suffered in Sunday’s victory at Liverpool"
Daily Mail sayin he's on crutches and that his right foot is in a protective boot following the Liverpool game.
Edit: Beaten to it
Edit: Beaten to it
Left Carrington on crutches according to the Daily Mail, thought to be a result of the Johnson challenge.
No......it can't be.
Ah here now. That's taking the piss.
Ah feck you Cutch and Beachryan. Oh and not another fecking injury.
Unbelievable.
I didn't even register he was hobbling during the match. Very odd.
I'm off to sacrifice my mom now.
call in the reserves.
What is it with us an injuring?
The fecking training ground is cursed...
The fecking training ground is cursed...
Johnson called him a cheat as well the cnut.
He, he, the new curse of Van Persie, he doesn't get crocked but everybody else does.
Because these injuries didn't happen to us last year as well. .
Vidic gone and now Valencia. Who's next then?
Based on what exactly? Let's look at some facts...Where Nani averages an assist every 2.9 games, Valencia is a much more efficient provider at an assist every 1.9 games.
Valencia's selfless play has seen him make more passes than Nani per game, and even at a better success rate, 86 percent pass completion to Nani's 80 percent.
In terms of ball retention, Valencia comes out on top as well. On average, Nani gets dispossessed 2.4 times per game, whereas Valencia gets dispossessed a mere 0.9 times a game.
Furthermore, during the 2011/2012 season were both players played almost equal amount of minutes (2100ish):
Valencia put in 68 tackles, whereas Nani had 38, to a 6% better tackle success ratio despite having put in a staggering 80% excess amount of tackles.
Add to that, the minutes in between Valencia's tackles (30) was half of Nani's (56) while completing more interceptions, clearly indicating a higher work rate, or at least a more efficient one.
Valencia also made 12% more passes to a 10% better completion rate, potentially suggesting he contributes more or better to play than Nani. In addition, cross completion was marginally better with 3%.
Lastly, as for shots, Nani made a lot more attempts. However, he only hit the target 39% of the times, whereas Valencia hit it 47% of the times. Add to that, Valencia's chance conversion was significantly better at 24% to Nani's 16%.
Now tell me, how was Nani better again? The case for consistency versus unpredictability is obsolete these days, that moment of magic Nani supposedly produces doesn't come around nowhere near enough to justify the preference for his 'guile' over Valencia's evident efficiency. Manchester United is a collection of team players, facts speaks for themselves, Valencia is the better team player.
I think your location proves a point.
What the feck are that stats even proving? Pointless. Football is 100% stats.
What the feck are that stats even proving? Pointless. Football is 100% stats.
Err, theories are usually supported or disproved by empirics. It's common practice. I've clearly stated what they prove, that Valencia is more efficient at doing what a winger is supposed to do. They also suggest Valencia is a better team player.
Even our back-up, playing-out-of-position defenders are getting injured
Well you go on about tackles and interceptions, and how Valencia makes much more etc, which would be expected. It's quite clear that Valencia is more defensive and he's also had several games at right-back too.
The losing possesion stat is also a bit meaningless, as Nani dribbles a lot more and tries to beat more men than Valencia, who rather keeps it simple. Expected that he loses the ball less.
Then you say that Valencia has a better rate of getting shots on target, despite the fact than Nani takes more and is often on the left meaning more often than not he cuts in onto his stronger foot, opening up a shooting opportunity. I'd expect someone who prefers to cross than shoot to have a better rate of shots on target, especially when Valencia only really shoots clear on goal.
Also, if you factor in Nani's goals and add them to assists, I think you'd find that they are very similarly efficient at creating/scoring goals and there wouldn't be much difference between goals/assists per minute. A bit one sided, in favour of Valencia in my opinion.
You've strayed off topic here, the discussion was confined to as which is the better winger. Judging by your perception of Nani, he's rather an inside forward. Also, having more shots isn't necessarily good, Nani is prone to make poor decisions. His lack of judgement is pretty poor for somebody who is supposedly a better winger than Valencia who is, I quote Sir Alex: "Way underrated by many".
I'm not denying Valencia is class, but I just think the stats you posted were pretty biased. Nani is probably more an inside forward, but in 2010/11 when Valencia broke his leg and Nani found himself first choice on the right he recorded the highest assists in the league, the most in recent seasons too, and got 9 goals as well. In terms of productivity that's better than any of Valencia's seasons here. Does that mean he is a better winger?
Whatever you do with the ball is up to the player, Valencia's approach of getting past opposing players with passes and usage of team mates has evidently yielded better results for the team as a whole. Being a player that likes to dribble does not excuse the amount of times you lose possession, sticking to what earns the better returns is better for the team. Stats are open for subjective interpretation though, I give you that. I feel a sudden urge to jump to Valencia's defense when posters come out with statements like that, claiming Nani is comfortably better than Valencia on the wing.
I can almost guarentee you Messi (not comparing with Nani, just an example) loses the ball more than Valencia. It's because he tries more difficult and creative things. Nani does too. It doesn't mean that they don't yield as good results. Attempting these things might lead to a crucial goal, or open up a chance.
With Nani, that is not the case unfortunately, which is why many of us are frustrated with him. Additionally, that would be reflected in stats concerning chance creation, successful crosses and key passes, which it isn't. It's a tale of two stories really, Nani is overrated and Valencia is underrated. That said, both are quality players but I'd pick Valencia any day of the week, there's no doubt about that.
To be fair, Nani on the right is a very different beast from Nani on the left.
Could be good timing, in that sense.
Where's Young at?
Could be good timing, in that sense.
Where's Young at?
Knee injury, back in a month.
He got injured on Sunday but only left on crutches today? Did it take them 2 days to work out he's injured or did he aggravate that injury in training?
Either way our injury situation is fecking ridiculous. Every season we hope we don't suffer with injuries but it seems to get worse everytime.
Either way our injury situation is fecking ridiculous. Every season we hope we don't suffer with injuries but it seems to get worse everytime.
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