Yeah thats how I saw it. He was brought on to help us counter and carry the ball. You know the things wingers are supposed to do. But he didn't. Again.
Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request
- Thread starter NextSeason
- Start date
- Status
Yeah thats how I saw it. He was brought on to help us counter and carry the ball. You know the things wingers are supposed to do. But he didn't. Again.
It was Rafael's responsibility. He's a right back. In the last of the game that's the job he should be doing. Why doesn't Rafale just run toward the ball he was clear favourite for. How is it Valencia's fault for not anticipating Rafael doing something fecking stupid?
Anderson was on the bench, as was Giggs. We could quite easily have taken Welbeck and Cleverley off for Anderson and Giggs. Brought Rooney to the left and stuck Giggs in behind RVP and leave him as our most advanced player to hold the line and kept like for like with Cleverley and Anderson. We didn't need to change much about our formation at all, we just needed fresher legs.
Yeah that's what I thought he should have been doing, doesn't have to over do it but when the opportunity comes to move in to space take it and I don't think he did. If we were playing keep ball then I could understand people saying it was fine but we weren't, we were clearly going for a second even if not throwing everything forward.
Talk about knee-jerk. Valencia's been terrible all season but defensively this was the best he's been and even in poor form he keeps the ball better than perhaps every other winger in the league - that's what we needed.
I thought he was quite poor. He had a few chances to run into space and keep possession but instead decided to pass the ball 30 yards back putting pressure on the defence. Not only that but our shape changed, Cleverley going off left space in the middle we should have brought on Giggs or Anderson.
That's bollocks from start to finish.
We needed someone who could keep Bale out of the game while offering a threat up the other end, I thought. And he did both. It's as if Valencia didn't make one positive attacking contribution. Bizarre. He was inches away from setting Welbeck through on goal, linked up excellently with Rafael for that cross that Welbeck just couldn't reach properly and generally found players in good positions in attacking areas.
This is scapegoat stuff all over.
I agree, yeah we all know about Valencia's form but he played for about 5 minutes didn't do much and his thread is the most active.
What has this shown us that actually needs to be talked about?
He was one on one with Ekotto a few times, this is an Ekotto who hasn't played in about 6 months, yet he didn't once try and properly take him on. He'd pass back and put unnecessary pressure on Rafael or Jones. With Valencia it's like playing a malfunctioning robot.
Doubling up on Bale worked for pretty much the rest of the game, when we changed we opened ourselves up centrally and allowed them more time on the ball. We needed fresh legs, not a change in formation. It didn't work at all.
It's not scapegoat stuff, I am sick of seeing a player who is quite clearly out of form coming on when we have adequate players who could be playing. Why wasn't Nani on the bench? Valencia is a limited player at the best of times, why are we persisting? Valencia has had plenty of chances this season.
If anything was the wrong sub, it was bringing Rooney on, not Valencia. Tony did his job.
Yeah I mean its not why we drew the game, the mistakes at the end weren't his fault, de gea and rafael could have done better but it was just something that was frustrating. Like I said I was thinking he would be a good sub for clev and whilst he wasn't bad he was frustrating because as you said there were times where he had so much space to move into, he could get us up the pitch, win fouls etc.
Why are people blaming him ? That last giveaway was down to Rafa and before that he wasn't that bad.
We didn't change formation though did we? We played 451 the whole game. It was a straight swap for Cleverley. Just seems like you have this Valencia-agenda you're pushing and what happened in this game is irrelevant...so you're just making stuff up to fit that agenda.
Jesus give it a rest ac. Rafael expected Valencia to go for the ball and get there first and so he was running to give Valencia an option.
He wasn't just stupidly bombing up the pitch for no reason, just 2 players not on the same wavelength at that moment.
I thought Valencia was poor when he came on, offered nothing going forward despite having a few opportunities to run at that, messed a decent counter attack up by having a spaz out where he stood on the ball and fell over. I would've much preferred Anderson to have come on at that point, a player that could drive forward and relive some pressure, that job I believe Valencia was brought on to do.
Not doing anything wrong is not always good enough. He hasn't done anything right for ages.
Honestly don't know what people were expecting of him. He came on when we were incapable of keeping the ball for more than a couple of minutes. He put in a decent shift and did all he could really. He's not going to start to try and beat his man in situations like today.
Did he? I thought at that point we were crying out for the old Valencia who would drive forward with the ball and relieve some pressure.
I have the right to give my opinion. Rafael had the momentum. Valencia would have to make he run from a standing start. Running away from the ball was stupid and blaming Valencia for it is even worse. It was the 93rd minute of he game and we were 1-0 up. Your right back should not be bombing forward.
Getting the ball and taking it into the corner twice when he came on probably would have run off at least a full minute. Wonder what the final score would've been if the game ended 60 seconds earlier...
Once again, he wasn't mindlessly bombing forward, he was trying to offer an option.
He and Valencia were just on totally different wavelengths.
We didn't change formation though did we? We played 451 the whole game. It was a straight swap for Cleverley. Just seems like you have this Valencia-agenda you're pushing and what happened in this game is irrelevant...so you're just making stuff up to fit that agenda.
Cleverley played across the middle, Valencia stuck to the wing leaving a gaping hole in the middle. If we didn't change formation, we changed the way we were dealing with Spurs and it didn't work. There were other options. Doubling up on Bale worked all game, we didn't need to concede the centre of midfield in order to continue doing that as we had a central midfielder on the bench to come on.
Yes I have an agenda, it's the "Stop playing a player clearly out of form" agenda. When Valencia gets back to some semblance of his form towards the end of last season, I'll have absolutely no problems with seeing him on the team sheet.
The goal, in my opinion, was a result of conceding the centre of midfield. That's not because of an agenda against Valencia, I think bringing on any of our wingers for Cleverley would have been the wrong decision. We needed fresh legs, that's it.
He's a defender and we had a one goal lead in injury time. He shouldn't be going forward. He should've continued toward the ball and cleared it instead of expecting somebody further away from it to do it for him. It was bad defending. And it was not Valencia's fault. You're going back on ignore so don't be offended when I don't respond to you.
Wow, touchy. And I wasn't even mildy offensive, just thought it was something to debate. Weird.
Cleared the ball...straight to Spurs? Are we QPR on the last day of the season all of a sudden? In my mind, Rafael was doing the right thing in trying to carry the ball forward to alleviate the pressure and kill some time.
So you wanted him to start time wasting the second he came on?
I'm getting a bit fed up with him to be honest, the team was pretty poor today but he hasn't done anything all season and think he needs taking out the team for a bit. Hopefully Nani will be brought in for Fulham game down the right, non of this down the left bollocks play out best right winger down the right wing.
He was bombing up the pitch unnecessarily as is his nature - and it causes us problems some time. Rio's said this season that our fullbacks push so far forward and leave the defence exposed that he just wants to rein them in and tell them to calm down. He also said...
Inexperience would be one way of describing it.
It was the last minute. That's what you do when under pressure like that. What you don't do as a right back is run away from the ball up the pitch because you think a player nowhere near the ball is going to get it somehow. Maybe if we'd cleared the ball up the pitch we would've got three points.
Excellent defensively apart from the moment he refused responsibility and cost us the game.
Valencia was as close to the ball as Rafael was.
There's too much stupid in this thread. And for that reason, I'm out.
Watch a replay. Bye.
We'll definitely have to agree to disagree on this cause I believe that he's expecting Valencia to go to the ball and is bombing up the pitch to give Valencia an option. In his mind, he's putting Valencia in a shit position with no options if he doesn't.
Yeah I agree with this, the suggestion that we suddenly needed to focus even more on Bale when he was kept completely quiet up until that point is a mystery. But I don't think Fergie brought him on for that anyway.
Have a word with yourself, child.As far as I'm aware when we're in possession that's called attacking. He wasn't great in attack. He was decent. Some good stuff, some bad stuff. Off the ball he was great. As good as he's been all season. Only Ferdinand and Carrick from our team made more interceptions all game.
I don't think he was terrible, but we were noticeably more comfortable with Cleverley in the same role.
all this talk of zaha coming in to replace nani...it could well be valencia. i hate to say that. mind boggling that he can go from being consistently our best player jan-may and rarely but in a performance below 7 to being so poor. genuinely cant remember his last good game
- Status