Imagine Liverpool had to select one of Valencia or Young every game. They wouldn't be in the top 4 either.
Antonio Valencia | 2013/14 Performances
- Thread starter iSparky
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
- Status
Imagine Liverpool had to select one of Valencia or Young every game. They wouldn't be in the top 4 either.
I still remember posters arguing with me when I said that Valencia was a massive step down to Ronaldo and Young was a massive step down to Giggs. Their argument was that, we changed 'system' and that Valencia/Young were not replacements for Ronaldo/Giggs. I never understood that argument. I mean whenever I watch a game I always see these two pile of erm, instead of 2 world class wingers.
Remember all those years we laughed at their shit wingers?
Isn't as blisteringly quick as he once was, has limited short passing and a hit and hope-type attitude on both shots and crosses. When did this happen? he came back from a broken leg as a better player than the one that was stretchered off the pitch!
He needs to be doing more than providing energy and support for Rafael as it simply isn't good enough. Perhaps our reported interest in Herrmann could have been the boot up the arse he needs, but loaning Zaha out has more than likely given him a confidence boost knowing that he will get more game time, thus leaving the problem unsolved. Sigh. I used to view Tony as a freight train but he's nothing of the sort anymore.
He needs to be doing more than providing energy and support for Rafael as it simply isn't good enough. Perhaps our reported interest in Herrmann could have been the boot up the arse he needs, but loaning Zaha out has more than likely given him a confidence boost knowing that he will get more game time, thus leaving the problem unsolved. Sigh. I used to view Tony as a freight train but he's nothing of the sort anymore.
He was woeful last season but didn't get the stick he otherwise might have got because it was on the back of a very good season. This season he has managed to be slightly less woeful but still appallingly bad. Last season he absolutely refused to take the full backs on, instead preferring to pass the ball back to Rafael. This season he's taken on the full back on a more consistent basis but his final ball has been shite and there's still too much of negativity in his play. He's not even all that great defensively, despite people pretending to the contrary.
The only useful thing he does is carry the ball forward well (before eventually passing it back again). He's a pointless player and there's no way he should be starting games. If we HAVE to start with one of Young/Valencia it should be Young every single time.
The only useful thing he does is carry the ball forward well (before eventually passing it back again). He's a pointless player and there's no way he should be starting games. If we HAVE to start with one of Young/Valencia it should be Young every single time.
I don't think it is, it has its moments where its very good but a lot of the time it leads to nothing because Valencia too often passes the buck to Rafael who's crossing is erratic. There's too main ways they link up either Rafael overlapping and Valencia playing him in to space or similar situation and rafael then hooks it back to Valencia who has some extra space. As I said when it goes to Rafa his crossing can be poor and when Rafael knocks it back to Valencia, he hesitates and wastes the opportunity and sometimes even worse is that he drags in a cm towards him as well so we have 3 players just passing the ball in one corner and rarely actually work the oppenning, nor take it when it happens.
Evra and Young can also be erratic but the movement works better as Evra is better overlapping and it opens up space for Young to come on to his right.
I've said before that I think Valencia should stay as he is a decent squad player but right now I can't see any justification for him starting over the other options there. Like I said with Young at least he can fit in around the other guys in the attack. He can stay wide on either side or he can play coming inside which showed some promise with Mata on the other flank as he wants people making a diagonal run inside. With Valencia he can't fit in around the others and he's not doing well enough in attack nor doing so well defensively to take that role imo. I'm not even a fan of Young but he's far more flexible than Valencia is. I don't think either should be starting atm tbh.
I get what you're saying. Why couldn't we have just bought another Ronaldo. So stupid.
Can you name one person who thought Young and Valenica were as good as Giggs and Ronaldo?
Once upon a team there was a good, super effective player in Antonio Valencia. Something murdered him though and left a defective clone in his place....
I haven't said that. I only said that when I highlighted that the quality was going down and that we replaced world class players with average talent some of the usual suspects laughed at me, saying that Valencia/Young didn't replaced Ronaldo/Giggs and that we simply changed the system which sort of magically compensated to this huge dip in quality.
I seen that show! Battlestar Galactica, right? The Valencia we got now is actually a Cylon. It all makes sense now...
I disagree.
Once upon a time we had a magnificent side which had the best defense of its era (Rafael-Vidic-Rio-Evra in their prime is as good as one can ever get), a magnificent midfield (Ronaldo-Scholes-Carrick-Giggs) and a hardworking but still classy forward line (Tevez-Rooney). Age was slowly catching up on some key players but the team was still strong enough to be considered amongst the very best.
Instead of spending big on key positions that needed strengthening, we have
a) allowed key players to leave (Ronaldo and Tevez)
b) we insisted on the old guard until it reached a ridiculous state
c) we spent the dosh on either luxury signings (Berbatov and Kagawa) or on safe bets who can keep the rythm if the team is doing great but lack the quality to actually drag the team from a miserable state (ex Young and Valencia)
This sort of fetishness for boy scouts who simply obeyed their masters voice hit the youth ranks were average players like Cleverley were being preferred to great talent like Pogba. We were just lucky we didn't lose Januzaj who seem to were getting a bit fed up sitting on the bench while seeing the true 'geniuses' in action.
I am sure that if you covered this cylon in skin and make him play on the flank he'll smile and play just like Valencia do.
What the hell does any of that have to do with what he said?
erm are you chief?
Oh right, so we can't respond to people unless they're directly quoting us, is that it? Even if the post is mind bendingly ridiculous.
Well, I've been following chief long enough to know that he is bright enough to understand that post..
Let me explain it to you.
Valencia is not shit. In a great side he can keep the rythm of the team and actually look good. However in a weak side, he simply lack the creativity and quality to actually drag the side out of its misery just like true great talent (ex Giggs or Ronaldo) would do. I am confident that if Valencia played for the likes of Bayern or Barcelona he would 'regain' his form again and actually prove himself useful. The guy is athletic, fairly fast and he's not a shit crosser
That's nice, but what does that have to do with:
Seeing as ... he never played in that side, and at his best for us, we had nothing close to resembling that side anymore.
Do tell me, oh wise one.
Add that first part to the second part
Instead of spending big on key positions that needed strengthening, we have
a) allowed key players to leave (Ronaldo and Tevez)
b) we insisted on the old guard until it reached a ridiculous state
c) we spent the dosh on either luxury signings (Berbatov and Kagawa) or on safe bets who can keep the rythm if the team is doing great but lack the quality to actually drag the team from a miserable state (ex Young and Valencia)
it will help you understand better.
Let's just clear this up, right, Chief basically asked "why has Valencia gotten so crap in the last two years", you responded to this question by going on about a team that had absolutely nothing to do with him, and then tried to claim that you and Chief have some special long term understanding and he'd get what you meant, which is apparently that for Valencia to play at his best he needs a team like that around him, despite that, when he was at his best, he had almost none of those players you mentioned around him at all!
What does Ronaldo and Tevez leaving have to do with Valencia deteriorating so rapidly over the last two years? (NOTE: Ronaldo and Tevez had already gone by then, in case you're unclear)
Valencia has been utterly ineffective on the wings for about 2 years now. His presence in the final third is actually a hindrance rather than a help. His only value to the squad now is as a reserve right back. But he's defensively suspect so......
He's basically a right footed Buttner.
He's basically a right footed Buttner.
Ronaldo and Tevez may have left but the old guard was still there and players like Rio, Evra and Vidic were at their peak.
Ah yes, defenders, the absolute heartbeat of any attack.
Bring us the Ecuatorian!!!
Ecuadorian*
A solid defense gives stability to the more creative elements of the team who wont need to backtrack too much which is a big plus. However you're missing the point here. Many elements who provided quality or at least stability to the side have aged or are showing signs of ageing. Rio, Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Scholes (who retired), RVP and Carrick etc. Other elements needs to step up and be counted and we simply lack these type of players.
His hardly deprived of the ball... The majority of his defensive passes are his own doing!! If we changed him with Reus for instance I doubt he would be playing the ball backwards and failing at everything attacking because his defensive mates are no longer solid.
I'm not missing any point, because you're not making one. You're rambling and veering off on weird tangents because you realized that what you originally said was completely irrelevant to the post you responded to in every way.
Yes the basic fundamentals of football, thanks for the lesson. Valencia is one of those players that doesn't step up and be counted. So what's your actual point? Or do you not have one?
The point is simple. Valencia didn't turn shit. He was always more or less at this level (ie he could keep the pace in a good side but can't step up and be counted). The problem is that the squad's quality has deteriorated and we tried to compensate to that with players like Valencia.
He use to put in a decent cross now and again like when Rooney scored all them headers. These days, I have no idea what has happened.
I disagree. I think he did. Something has changed in him. The way he plays is completely different to his first 3 seasons, where he was excellent at either side of his injury. He used to meet the fullback head on, knock the ball past them, always win the foot race and cross it in. He rarely tries to bomb past fullbacks anymore. He always looks to stop, slow play down and pass it infield or backwards. I don't know if it's confidence, or if he's lost a little bit of that burst of acceleration which made him so threatening. Either way, it's a shame.
He set up a goal once by hammering the ball across the floor, maybe he got obsessed with doing that and keeps trying it even thought it hasn't worked.
I like the fact that Valencia is willing to fight for his place. Through sheer determination, he overtook Ashley Young as the player that most fans hated and never wanted to see on the pitch again. Winner.
Its funny because when you see Valencia cross the ball theres no determination. He's already given up. Granted he used to throw several million balls into the box a game hoping to get that one good one, he had determination then and plenty of it. In recent seasons he doesn't give a shit when he puts the ball in
Can't Pogue do an injury jinx on him and Young for that matter.
It's amazing that someone as poor as him is so important for such a big club.
Bring us the Ecuatorian!!!
What do you need anyone from Equatorial Guinea? A new winger?
With 6 yellows and 1 red he has the worst disciplinary record at the club this season and 4th worst in the league. Think I'm starting to agree hes a defensive midfielder. Flamini has the same record and Kevin Nolan 5 yellows 2 reds. Debuchy has the same 6 yellows and 1 red, Wes Brown has 0 yellows 3 reds.
It baffles me that people actually come up with excuses for him and claim he is in anyway useful for us.
I can't remember us having too much trouble defending on the right flank when Ronaldo was here or in the left when Giggs was in his prime.
How did we ever cope without a defensive winger?
I can't remember us having too much trouble defending on the right flank when Ronaldo was here or in the left when Giggs was in his prime.
How did we ever cope without a defensive winger?
- Status