Moyes would be absolutely delighted with that performance and feel completely vindicated. Expect him to start all our remaining big games and continue to produce absolutely nothing bar decent defensive work.
Antonio Valencia | 2013/14 Performances
- Thread starter iSparky
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
- Status
What's this from?Loking at the below graphic you nearly wouldnt know which direction he's playing. Ridiculously negative
He played him in better form most of the times
God. And to think I was hoping by the end of last season that we'd see less of them under a new manager. Oh, how naïve.
Loking at the below graphic you nearly wouldnt know which direction he's playing. Ridiculously negative
Hardly the game to bash him. We didn't have anyone in the box, or around it for that matter, at any stage of the game.
I bet we had a lovely collection of passes forward last weekend. Didn't help us much, did it?
Valencia kind of symbolizes everything that's wrong with the club at the moment.
The more I watch this Valencia of the past two seasons, the more I think he's just not a smart footballer, at all. He is physically immense (though he doesn't seem to want to use his speed and strength these days) and technically he's decent. He just doesn't seem to know what to do if his first option gets denied.
E.g. fullback overlaps, Antonio wants to pass it to him so he shapes his body in that direction with absolutely no disguise; defender cuts off the passing angle to his fullback, so Antonio just stands over the ball for a while before turning backwards.
The other one that annoys me (happened a few times today) is when he comes a bit deeper to receive the ball when facing backwards, and a player that isn't his fullback runs past him on the flank. He never spots it. His fullback is still behind him, so therefore he must hold the ball for a second and just pass it back to the FB.
And of course, our favourite example is when he's in a crossing position, but the defender can clearly see that he wants to cross so he stands in front of him. Instead of a ball fake, a drop of the shoulder, or cutting onto his left, Antonio stands still for a bit, before smashing the ball into the defender's shin.
Incapable of making quick decisions.
E.g. fullback overlaps, Antonio wants to pass it to him so he shapes his body in that direction with absolutely no disguise; defender cuts off the passing angle to his fullback, so Antonio just stands over the ball for a while before turning backwards.
The other one that annoys me (happened a few times today) is when he comes a bit deeper to receive the ball when facing backwards, and a player that isn't his fullback runs past him on the flank. He never spots it. His fullback is still behind him, so therefore he must hold the ball for a second and just pass it back to the FB.
And of course, our favourite example is when he's in a crossing position, but the defender can clearly see that he wants to cross so he stands in front of him. Instead of a ball fake, a drop of the shoulder, or cutting onto his left, Antonio stands still for a bit, before smashing the ball into the defender's shin.
Incapable of making quick decisions.
He was fine and even great for a while after his return to injury. It surprised a lot of us how quickly he got back to a good level in terms of fitness. His injury has nothing to do with his current performances.
Say what you like about Valencia (and god knows that's what's happening!) but his partnership with Rafael is very effective. It's when he's alongside Smalling or Jones that our right flank loses all it's potency. The injury to Rafael was a real blow.
And it's not just a quality fullback making up for Valencia's inadequacies. Rafael's a lesser player without Valencia to play him in. As we saw against Fulham.
And it's not just a quality fullback making up for Valencia's inadequacies. Rafael's a lesser player without Valencia to play him in. As we saw against Fulham.
That's not even slightly true.
It's been a season where bad results have amped up the abuse at almost every player in our squad but a couple of the biggest scapegoats, Young and Valencia, are actually playing slightly better this season than last.
On a side note, one of the redcafe golden boys has gone through the biggest drop in performance of anyone while almost escaping criticism. RvP has been a shadow of his usual self. Double standards in action
Oh yeah, against Fulham he was incredibly positive in his passing...
And of our 81 crosses he really rinsed his fullback and put in his fair share:
RVP who has scored in 10 in 14 this season? Laughable to even compare the two.
Didn't Ferguson say he used to see himself in Keane? I'm guessing Valencia is Moyes' Keane: both are mediocre, one-dimensional and way out of their depth.
Oh yeah, against Fulham he was incredibly positive in his passing...
And of our 81 crosses he really rinsed his fullback and put in his fair share:
I wasn't referring to him against Fulham. My point was that those arrows are a very limited tool to assess a player's contribution. We had plenty of forward passes/crosses against Fulham that led to nothing. As I said in reference to last night, there was no point in passes to the box because there was nobody there.
If there were brown arrows to players who were shite on the night you'd have found all our forward passes painted brown too.
I thought it was Fergie who signed Valencia and played him regularly.
Definitely. He should have been there when RvP missed the best chance of the game and buried it for him - fecking Valencia! Grrrr! I'm thinking those 4 goals he's scored so far were all accidental and it was actually his doppelganger who's made them 3 assists so far! Grrr!
No doubt he's been so bad that he's caused our other 7-9 outfield players (not to mention our bungling defenders) to play like rubbish too this year! I mean why can't Rafael cross any more? Or Young keeps sending them high to the back post? Vidic can't even organise a defence properly ffs! Bloody Valencia is why - he's like a negative zone - grrrr! He's turned RvP into a chancer too. Turned him into the Dutch Darren Bent!
It was only Fergie's super positive zone that allowed us to win the title last year despite Mr. Negative playing almost every game. The years before? PotY etc? Well.... miracles do happen!
There was nobody up front to pass the ball to.
Last edited:
So vs Fulham..as a sub he created 2 chances and didn't waste the ball like Young attempting a bazillion crosses, and was in deep positions vs a 10-man defence and chose to pass it to the centre (where our play was needed to be) rather than aimlessly pump it in as the other lads did all game.... poor indeed. Against Fulham we needed through balls not crosses - he only made 1 of the 81 - he'll be disappointed with that!Oh yeah, against Fulham he was incredibly positive in his passing...
And of our 81 crosses he really rinsed his fullback and put in his fair share:
It's funny that Valencia has been more positive and attacking and actually scored more goals this year (and as many assists too), but because the team as a whole has been shit and e'er languishing in 8th rather than 1st he gets even more grief!
In other words, haters gonna hate...
When Fergie used to describe our wingers like Giggs, Ronaldo and Best the first thing he'd compliment was their "courage" and "bravery". Valencia doesn't seem to have the mentality or confidence in himself any more. He didn't once attempt to take on Gibbs yesterday. There was one point where he was 1 vs 1 and waited for Rafael to make up 20 yards on the overlap to play him in, rather than try and do something positive.
Valencia is and always has been a limited player. Winning the league after replacing Ronaldo with him will rank as one of the top Fergie miracles. However, he is far from being the weakest link in this season's chain of below par performances.
He is simply shit.
Should be fired
Should be fired
Jeeze you are making out as if he is Liam Miller or something. Valencia was a quality player when we signed him and was one of the better players in the league.
Now like 90% of the team he is going through a massive blow in confidence and could do with some respite from the first team.
Valencia had some very good times, last season was a bit up and down. This season he looks completely lost and shouldnt really play
I tried to fight his corner, but I guess this didn't go through that well... Him being one of the best players in the league is a fcuking stretch though.
No he didn't, there was plenty of bitching about him always being played last season as well.
Well you basically said he was an average player and Fergie won the league in spite of him..not sure what you are doing trying to fight his corner.
Saying Valencia was one of the better players in the league is hardly a stretch especially as he was a great asset to a championship winning side.
I doubt many would rate him as a top class winger. He is strong and quick, and on his day could give most LBs a hard time. However, he is too one-dimensional and lacks in technique to be considered a top class player. Do you disagree that replacing Ronaldo with him wasn't exactly like for like?
Disagree. He's played better this season than last.
Which explains why he got 1 goal and 6 assists in the whole of last season - playing for the team that won the league - and already has 4 goals and 3 assists by February, playing for a team that is having a woeful season, scoring far less goals than they did in 2012/13.
Anyway. How come none of you gimps responded to this post?
Is this not a good enough reason for Moyes to give him games? (and Fergie before him)
He is just so pointless
You're misinterpreting my words. All I said was he was one of the "better players in the league", comparing him to other wingers lower down the league not the likes of Ronaldo and Messi. As one of better players in the league he was generally a help to us winning the league not a hindrance as you inferred.
I'd agree now though that Valencia is incredibly one-dimensional to be considered one of the better players in the league. But I'd reckon he would shine if he was at another club, Old Trafford is an attraction for misery at the moment.
He'd shine at another club at least twice a season as long as Evra still plays for us.
He is a great squad player to play against the lesser teams and for rotation but I feel someone with a bit more talent and more to offer is needed in the bigger games
I think in general he has been better than last season, Young too, but both are far below what we need. Valencia has become even more annoying because at least Young can fit in around the others. I.e we can play Januzaj/Mata on either flank with Young. With Valencia he fixes his side and he plays it in such a limited fashion. I mean it would be one thing for him not to want to change flanks but he rarely ever makes a run inside and when you have someone like Mata who could pick that pass out its a waste.
He does link up well with Rafael at times but personally I wouldn't say it's as good as Evra and Young for example who link up pretty well in fairness and the other thing with Valencia, particularly when Clev/Jones are playing in the middle he seems to suck them in towards his side when we have the ball and they play such a slow triangle of passes between themselves thats often killed the attack.
I wouldn't sell him but right now I can't see the benefit in him playing regularly. I don't rate Young that much but right not I'f chose him over Valencia but tbh with Mata showing he will do his defensive job and us looking more solid having Rooney drop more I really can't see the justification in not playing Mata and Januzaj except for Januzaj being given a break.
He does link up well with Rafael at times but personally I wouldn't say it's as good as Evra and Young for example who link up pretty well in fairness and the other thing with Valencia, particularly when Clev/Jones are playing in the middle he seems to suck them in towards his side when we have the ball and they play such a slow triangle of passes between themselves thats often killed the attack.
I wouldn't sell him but right now I can't see the benefit in him playing regularly. I don't rate Young that much but right not I'f chose him over Valencia but tbh with Mata showing he will do his defensive job and us looking more solid having Rooney drop more I really can't see the justification in not playing Mata and Januzaj except for Januzaj being given a break.
He's not even that good against lesser teams. For the last 2 years he's had literally identical performances against anyone he has faced, any fullback, regardless of age/experience. Always being negative, hardly ever even trying to take on his man, and delivering shit crosses. He just serves no purpose other then being good to punt the ball to as he's physically huge and him being good defensively. Why on earth Manchester United have started to value defensive security over attacking prowess and creativity more for their wingers, I have no idea. We've always had attacking, creative wingers up until Nani lost form in 2012 or whenever it was. Since then, it's just been constant negativity on the wings from both Moyes, and Sir Alex to be fair.
It's sad seeing him like this. It's like seeing Neville or Keane in their later days, thing is Valencia is not even 30 but I feel his pace is completely gone following that ankle injury. It's easy to forget he was one of our best players for a few years, and was pivotal to Rooney's 34 goal season in 2010.
That's the strange part about him. He came back from the injury looking like the same player that tormented defenses and all of a sudden with the beginning of the 2012/13 everything was gone. From an effective, yet one dimensional player to a one dimensional useless player. He was voted player of the year in the 2011/12 season, were we lost the title on the last day ... He was a bloody great player for 3 seasons and that already made his transfer a success.
But I really want him gone now. I really like how he sacked his agent just to be here and that he was the last player to choose us over Real Madrid, but it's simply sad seeing him now. We need to move on from him. We gave him now nearly 2 seasons and nothings changed. He is like Torres without the transfer. This could be the last year we might get some money for him.
I don't think it's the injury. But there are no rules to when players start to deteriorate just like players can reach their prime at different stages. Maybe that's it, really. He was never a brilliant player, but he was useful and had good enough end product. Now he's a symbol of our level and style of football.
In my honest opinion, there is no better player for bringing the ball out from the back, or moving us up on the counter, than Valencia. The problem is, when he strays too far forward, its like he has a BSOD and his footballing brain shuts off. If our attacks went through the middle and our build up play was incisive instead of slow and laboured wing play, he'd be a good enough asset because he does play the ball into one of the forwards on the edge of the box. When he plays our team uses him as a focal point for nearly all of our attacks and it's the same with Young when Valencia doesn't play. You're asking semi-mediocre players to be the inspiration for our attacks. It's just not going to happen. This is what frustrates me about some fans. They're quick to write off the players who aren't as good as the others, but the truth is when you have Carrick, Rooney, RVP and Mata on the field, you shouldn't rely on your RW to supply your attacks...
To summarise, he's been no worse than our other attacking options this season, and he still offers a lot defensively and links up well with everybody. Should he be a regular for United? Not really, but the truth is we have nobody else who is streets ahead of him in attacking sense, which could justify losing his work-rate and defensive aspects.
To summarise, he's been no worse than our other attacking options this season, and he still offers a lot defensively and links up well with everybody. Should he be a regular for United? Not really, but the truth is we have nobody else who is streets ahead of him in attacking sense, which could justify losing his work-rate and defensive aspects.
It's ten times as good as Evra + Young who together have done little when you look at goals created or scored when they play together.
Most of our players however lack confidence and for the ones who are limited like Valencia and Young (bar the 3 game stretch where he scored 2 goals) it means they play even more iwthdrawna nd "defer" to others. Valencia did this last season as Rafael was on form..he defered and became a defensive winger as he was low on confidence and Ferge never gave him a break.
Nani would be a good player to have fit now and yes give Valencia a break, but he is a valuable squad player still..more valuable than Young for sure.
- Status