He should be sold in Jan. fecking useless
Antonio Valencia | 2013/14 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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Regardless of whether its true, only the likes of RVP, Rooney etc deserve to get gametime to get their form back. The others have to earn it in training or from the bench.
Give him a few days off.
He's been underwhelming this season again. But I can't help but think that our slow and uncreative midfield has a lot to do with it. Seems like our wingers always get the ball after a slow and laboured buildup. When do we ever see Valencia get the ball with a running start in a promising situation? The only times he gets the ball in decent situations is a 50 yard ball from Rooney. Then he usually has 2 defenders on him right away.
We've seen Antonio destroy Ashley Cole a number of times. It's still in him. There are just big problems with this side right now. The lack of movement, creativity, confidence etc are having a negative effect on most players.
We've seen Antonio destroy Ashley Cole a number of times. It's still in him. There are just big problems with this side right now. The lack of movement, creativity, confidence etc are having a negative effect on most players.
shhh! don't talk too much sense in this thread.
Is it sense? So basically he can't cope with 95% of the sides we play, because that's what we come against almost every game, teams with players behind the ball.
He's horribly one dimensional, his inability/lack of confidence in his right foot means he's set-up almost solely for crosses into the box and that's about it. Now this would be understandable if he hadn't lost the ability to put a decent ball into the box or have some rational judgement when doing so, but he doesn't. He's playing to make up the numbers at the minute, and his contribution doesn't justify being anywhere near the team. He's like the poster boy for our terrible football this season and his inclusion is as much a reason for the slow and laboured buildup as anyone else.
He's horribly one dimensional, his inability/lack of confidence in his right foot means he's set-up almost solely for crosses into the box and that's about it. Now this would be understandable if he hadn't lost the ability to put a decent ball into the box or have some rational judgement when doing so, but he doesn't. He's playing to make up the numbers at the minute, and his contribution doesn't justify being anywhere near the team. He's like the poster boy for our terrible football this season and his inclusion is as much a reason for the slow and laboured buildup as anyone else.
Well that's not true is it. He's been 1v1 loads of times but does feck all in such situations.
That was fecking years ago. He's done as a United player and the sooner we sell him the better of we'll be.
Slow being the operative word. Valencia is an effective winger who loves playing...what's the term..."off the front foot" i.e. ball is moved to him at speed, allowing him to be one v one against the fullback, who's on the back foot and back pedalling.
These days, when we're fannying about with the ball, it allows teams or the fullback to essentially double mark him and he's not skillfull enough to beat 1, let alone 2 defenders. So with the current state, he's never going to "get his form/confidence" back because essentially, the team isn't set up to get the best out of him.
That being said though, he's been almost consistently shit for over 1.5 seasons now, which is simply not good enough for a player at this level and at this club, especially considering his probably played around 70-75% (that's a guess) of matches, when fit. We could make all the excuses we want, to defend him, but when it comes down to it, he's simply not been good enough to play for United recently.
Wouldn't be anywhere near starting for another top side, nowhere near.
Even Wigan wouldn't want him back
That means exactly what it says, he was lucky to get a move to United and Wigan were lucky to get 16m.
Valencia shouldn't have taken Nani's place that season, something confirmed for me in the CL final where he was a passenger whilst Nani showed more in his brief cameo.
Hargreaves played on the wing occasionally, it was a stop gap solution, tactical and he did a decent job. Valencia as I've said in this thread already is the posterboy for functionality. Managers understand the basics of defeating such a one footed player, show him onto his weaker foot which is what is done to him (when he isn't slamming crosses into opponent's shins).
I agree that part of his problem is mental, when confident he actually beat his man and tried to find one of our players now it seems like he is merely concerned with getting the ball into the box regardless of outcome.
Will have to just agree to disagree on that. Certainly wasn't a commonly held view prior to last season though - I'd say he justified that value in his first season.
The Nani/Valencia thing was a difficult one. Like it or not we had a system that closed out the league and took us to the Champions League in style. It was the last time we had a team that looked capable of playing consistently good football, with every player having a specific role to play and playing it well. It's easy to say in retrospect that we should've played more technical players against Barcelona, and the reasoning is sound, but had we lost and got shat on in the same way then people would be saying we broke up a winning formation, and that we should've played players that could harass the Barca team in possession.
Really, we just would not have won that game against that team with any formation I don't think, and Fergie clearly felt that playing the team that was in form and flying was the best thing to do. Not that it really counts for much, but I would've done the same.
As for Hargreaves, he did play on the wing occasionally; one of those times being in the Champions League final. He offered in that position about half of what Valencia on form offered (the defensive side of things), yet he was deemed good enough for that as he played in a team with enough technical players to offset any loss. Truthfully, I do sort of think that, with the way the modern game is going and the way United currently play, that there is perhaps too much emphasis on the need for every player to be some sort of technical wizard in possession. I'd agree that's what every player should be aiming for with their skill on the ball (and it's certainly the line up we need to be aiming for now), but the way Valencia was at his height was more than good enough for a top team. He was more consistent with his touch than Rooney a lot of the time, and what he offered aside from that in terms of defensive contribution more than made up for the distance between him and more top tier technical players.
Now is a different situation. He's a mess obviously, but he was definitely more than just a functional player in the past. A definite step above someone like Park who, again, no-one had any problem with when he was excelling for us in his role.
I've often said that particularly him but in general the wingers are suffering from the loss of scholes and the passes he could pull off that let the wingers get the ball high up the pitch and one on one with their full back. Nani is the only one who can cope better as he has more skill to beat players himself. In general our slow play doesn't help anyone.
But that said for me Valencia is not doing enough. There have been plenty of times where he has been one on one with his man, for example in the spurs game rooney played him if very well a number of times but he really failed to test rose who there to be beaten. He shows no bravery onthe ball and unless he's actually give the ball with space to run in to he won't take on his man even if its one on one, he tends to go forward a bit and then regardless of situation he either checks, passes to the side or slightly forward to an overlapping fullback. He rarely ever properly looks to beat someone one on one. And that with his crossing makes him very frustrating because any of our players could create space for themselves when there's a full back overlapping them, he should be doing more himself.
Ultimately as a traditional winger he neither takes anyone on nor puts in a reliable cross and his movement inside is almost not existant. He's had some games where he's done pretty well but generally against a decent team he's been continually average at best and managed to make the least of a situation time and time again. People have a go at the way we play using the wings but that principle is fine, the lack of quality he's providing is the problem.
Bit generous there, he's hardly a 'winger' based on current form. Rugby player who runs with the ball at his feet would be more apt.
Yep, when it comes down to it, he's just been found wanting, quality wise.
My apologies!
I would be extremely pleased if he never played for us again. Needs to go in the summer and put Adnan on the right. He msy actually even have the personality and confidence to wear the #7 shirt.
I agree that not having Scholes certainly does effect how useful he is. Rooney often gets some good out of him when he switches play, but I don't believe he's lost any pace. When pressing and chasing loose balls, he still looks absolutely lightning. He's had a couple of good games in Europe this season where he's rinsed full backs with his acceleration. It also doesn't explain how he went from being a pretty good crosser to just blasting the ball to the opposing touchline. He even took corners regularly in his first season.
Old Tony's not coming back, is he?
I agree that not having Scholes certainly does effect how useful he is. Rooney often gets some good out of him when he switches play, but I don't believe he's lost any pace. When pressing and chasing loose balls, he still looks absolutely lightning. He's had a couple of good games in Europe this season where he's rinsed full backs with his acceleration. It also doesn't explain how he went from being a pretty good crosser to just blasting the ball to the opposing touchline. He even took corners regularly in his first season.
Old Tony's not coming back, is he?
I'd say he's lost confidence, lord knows how he went from POTY for us to become a very timid player who often passess the buck to others to make something in his area of the pitch. Probably hasn't helped that he's not really been properly dropped for it.
The best way I can describe him at the moment is a "Blunt Instrument". He's lost all the incisiveness from his game and unless he manages to change that he will just maintain the status quo.
He just has no guile whatsoever. You know it's bad when it's gotten to the stage where your sitting there watching a player thinking you could almost do better.
When I see him get the ball I know nothing is gonna come of it.
And I'm correct.
And I'm correct.
There used to be so much variety to his crossing and general football striking. Now it's just about hammering it low and hard.
Second shittest. Shittest being that Fergie retired because he knew we were going to decline.
Played better today.
Much better from him. We didn't focus our entire attack on the right wing so he saw less of the ball. But together with Rafael and the midfielders, he combined well in our attacking moves inside and outside.
Also nice to see him pop up on a different side of the pitch for an easy goal. A bit of variety would do wonders for his own game.
Also nice to see him pop up on a different side of the pitch for an easy goal. A bit of variety would do wonders for his own game.
Scored the goal, but I'm genuinely confused as to what he's actually meant to do.
In the second half when our other attackers were linking up so well, he stood out so badly.
On the periphery of the game today with most our play focusing though Januzaj, Welbz and Kagawa. Kept his composure for the goal but generally only thought he was OK.
His pass for Rafael before Welbeck's big chance in the first half was outstanding.
Thought he moved infield a lot more in the second half.
I thought he was OK today actually. Nothing special but he was more effective than normal. Was one of our better players in the first half and didn't do much wrong in the second.
I can't get over that attempted pass he made on the half way line in Kagawa's direction. He moved forward slowly with the ball for about 10 seconds with Kagawa wide open and then lobs it over his head from about 7 yards away.
It's funny watching him do stuff like that when it doesn't lead to us conceding.
It's funny watching him do stuff like that when it doesn't lead to us conceding.
Some clueless, over the top posts in here but this takes the biscuit
First home goal in the league since boxing day 2011 which is abysmal really for a winger, hopefully this will give him confidence but we have been here before.
Better but the main thing is we didn't give him the ball at every opportunity.
Thought he was good today and said it a few times but think that whilst he doesn't want to take on people as he did/poor delivery it's a waste keeping him so wide. We can get what we need from the right from Rafael most times, I mean he should still be in wide areas but he should tuck in more as extra bodies in the middle just gives us more options and helps to disorganize the other team.
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