Antonio Valencia | 2013/14 Performances

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Moyes played Carrick and Fellaini against Manchester City and we lost 4-1. He also played Ferdinand so that means Ferdinand > Evans.

@Cina
 
MoneyMay said:
Nani created a goal for us against Stoke. Valencia failed to find our players on a number of occasions against Tottenham. How are they comparable? And in what way did Valencia have the game of his life?

Say suttin bruv.
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They shouldn't be compared I just like to show how much of hypocrisy some of the opinions here are. Valencia plays bad - 'not good enough'. Nani plays bad - 'come on, it's this and that, it's not his fault, now he's going to be dropped'. Sometimes it's like listening to bitter lamentations. Valencia could have spent the entire game yesterday sitting on his arse making faces and it still would have been better than the horror Nani show vs Stoke. Short memories, bruv?
 
Sorry lads, I forgot I was talking about Tottenham game and not last 18 months.
 
So just to sum up, in the last 2 games, Valencia has had 22 attempted crosses, just 1 of which has actually managed to find a team mate. Yet people are still trying to claim that he's playing well, that he's 'in form', our 'best option' etc etc

The truth is, our standards and expectations have dropped so unbelievably low as far as wingers are concerned that this kind of crap that Valencia is currently is serving up is now considered, not just acceptable, but actually good enough. Its amazing. I'm guilty of this too, there's been moments when Young's come on and given a decent-ish 10 minute cameo, and I've tried to convince myself that he's now good enough, and playing well.

Basically, Young and Valencia just aren't good enough technically to be a first teamer for a team with genuine ambitions to become one of the best in Europe.
 
Tomuś said:
They shouldn't be compared I just like to show how much of hypocrisy some of the opinions here are. Valencia plays bad - 'not good enough'. Nani plays bad - 'come on, it's this and that, it's not his fault, now he's going to be dropped'. Sometimes it's like listening to bitter lamentations. Valencia could have spent the entire game sitting on his arse making faces and it still would have been better than the horror Nani show vs Stoke. Short memories, bruv?
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Can you point out these Stoke excuses for me?
 
Sam said:
So just to sum up, in the last 2 games, Valencia has had 22 attempted crosses, just 1 of which has actually managed to find a team mate. Yet people are still trying to claim that he's playing well, that he's 'in form', our 'best option' etc etc

The truth is, our standards and expectations have dropped so unbelievably low as far as wingers are concerned that this kind of crap that Valencia is currently is serving up is now considered, not just acceptable, but actually good enough. Its amazing. I'm guilty of this too, there's been moments when Young's come on and given a decent-ish 10 minute cameo, and I've tried to convince myself that he's now good enough, and playing well.

Basically, Young and Valencia just aren't good enough technically to be a first teamer for a team with genuine ambitions to become one of the best in Europe.
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That is the crux of it.
 
Cina said:
Can you point out these Stoke excuses for me?
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See MoneyMay evaluation of his performance and basically the general consensus now after Spurs game, i.e. Nani's certainly the better option.
 
Sam said:
So just to sum up, in the last 2 games, Valencia has had 22 attempted crosses, just 1 of which has actually managed to find a team mate. Yet people are still trying to claim that he's playing well, that he's 'in form', our 'best option' etc etc
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We are as United fans desperate for any of our players to come back after a terrible season. He's done more now than he did last season and started to get past his markers with ease. Considerable improvement. His crossing has gone to shit but at least it's a start.
 
Tomuś said:
See MoneyMay evaluation of his performance and basically the general consensus now after Spurs game, i.e. Nani's certainly the better option.
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That's not what I asked though, I'm just wondering why you're so sure that so many of his fans made up excuses after the Stoke game? I can't really remember anyone not saying he was shit?
 
Tomuś said:
See MoneyMay evaluation of his performance and basically the general consensus now after Spurs game, i.e. Nani's certainly the better option.
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But on a serious level, Valencia has been in good form. My point isn't for Nani to come back to the RW and become a starter, my point is that Valencia hasn't taken his chances as one would have liked. Different argument. And no one defended Nani against Stoke, the most that was said was that he created our equaliser.
 
Tomuś said:
We are as United fans desperate for any of our players to come back after a terrible season. He's done more now than he did last season and started to get past his markers with ease. Considerable improvement. His crossing has gone to shit but at least it's a start.
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1 successful cross is 22. One. ONE. I don't care what the circumstances are, how is that in any way shape or form acceptable? Its actually pathetic. If Valencia played for anyone else but United, we'd all be wetting ourselves laughing at home hopeless he is/has become.
 
Tomuś said:
We are as United fans desperate for any of our players to come back after a terrible season. He's done more now than he did last season and started to get past his markers with ease. Considerable improvement. His crossing has gone to shit but at least it's a start.
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So, basically we are judging him relative to his shit performances last season and going past his markers in now an achievement?

fecking hell. Nani should be starting ahead of Valencia not only because he's a fecking better player but simply because Valencia has had more than enough chances to recover his form and now it's time for another player to be given a chance.
 
lem8sh said:
How can a winger with absolutely no end product be in good form?
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Valencia's in good form. It's just that at this club, we need him to be at a better level - which is very good form, which consists of better end product. He's not been great this season, but he's not been poor either.
 
lem8sh said:
How can a winger with absolutely no end product be in "good form"?
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I think people are just excited that he is beating his man again (which he wasn't even attempting to do for a while).
But in two games 1 successful cross out of 22 attempts is poor.
 
MoneyMay said:
Valencia's in good form. It's just that at this club, we need him to be at a better level - which is very good form, which consists of better end product. He's not been great this season, but he's not been poor either.
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What does he contribute to constitute "good form". He has no end product, none, nothing, zero. He is a winger after all.
 
If this is 'good form' then I'd hate to see bad form. Seriously, why have people's standards dropped so much?

Go and watch some videos of proper United quality. Watch some Beckham or Giggs. Hell, go and watch a video of Valencia in 2010. That was 'in form'. This isn't.
 
Tomuś said:
We are as United fans desperate for any of our players to come back after a terrible season. He's done more now than he did last season and started to get past his markers with ease. Considerable improvement. His crossing has gone to shit but at least it's a start.
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Are you joking? Have you actually watched any of the games?

Of those 22 crosses, 10 of them failed because he couldn't get past his marker and just decided to try and kick it past them instead, the ball barely moved 3 feet but they get counted as "attempted crosses". 5 of them were lobbed into the box from deep rather than trying to beat his man and it was only one of these that found a United player and that was Shinji Kagawa right on the edge of the area. Hardly a fecking dangerous cross is it?

Which leaves just 7 times that he managed to get a cross in with any sort of space made for himself and none of those managed to find any of our players.

He is dog shite.
 
My standards haven't dropped. I'm trying to keep an open-mind. Valencia has been in good form. He's doing the basics well, bar his awful crossing technique. He's put in a couple of good performances at right back. As I said, we need him to be at a higher level, where his end product is at a better level. But I don't think he's been in poor form since the Real Sociedad game at home. I'm with most people here, the one thing that is letting him down is his crossing.
 
Sam said:
If this is 'good form' then I'd hate to see bad form. Seriously, why have people's standards dropped so much?

Go and watch some videos of proper United quality. Watch some Beckham or Giggs. Hell, go and watch a video of Valencia in 2010. That was 'in form'. This isn't.
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Doesn't even have to be that far back, he was fans and players player of the season in 2011/12.
 
Yep. He can beat as many men as he likes, if he can't fecking beat the first man with his cross then he's pointless.
 
Sam said:
If this is 'good form' then I'd hate to see bad form. Seriously, why have people's standards dropped so much?

Go and watch some videos of proper United quality. Watch some Beckham or Giggs. Hell, go and watch a video of Valencia in 2010. That was 'in form'. This isn't.
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Bad form Valencia is the one we seen against Crystal Palace. Painfully mediocre that day.
 
MoneyMay said:
My standards haven't dropped. I'm trying to keep an open-mind. Valencia has been in good form. He's doing the basics well, bar his awful crossing technique. He's put in a couple of good performances at right back. As I said, we need him to be at a higher level, where his end product is at a better level. But I don't think he's been in poor form since the Real Sociedad game at home. I'm with most people here, the one thing that is letting him down is his crossing.
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Doing the basics well should be the bloody minimum requirement for a United player! Not an indicator that a player is in good form.

That in itself says everything about the standards you're setting. Doing basics right = Good form.
 
MoneyMay said:
My standards haven't dropped. I'm trying to keep an open-mind. Valencia has been in good form. He's doing the basics well, bar his awful crossing technique. He's put in a couple of good performances at right back. As I said, we need him to be at a higher level, where his end product is at a better level. But I don't think he's been in poor form since the Real Sociedad game at home. I'm with most people here, the one thing that is letting him down is his crossing.
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It's nice to see him playing with more confidence and beating his man and attempting crosses but the reality of it is that those crosses often create nothing which is a shame given that we attack down that flank so much.
 
MoneyMay said:
My standards haven't dropped. I'm trying to keep an open-mind. Valencia has been in good form. He's doing the basics well, bar his awful crossing technique. He's put in a couple of good performances at right back. As I said, we need him to be at a higher level, where his end product is at a better level. But I don't think he's been in poor form since the Real Sociedad game at home. I'm with most people here, the one thing that is letting him down is his crossing.
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It's not even his crossing that is the problem, he's completely incapable of getting into any sort of position to cross. He's the most one dimensional player I have ever seen. How can a player that spends his life playing football, not realise that he has to learn to pull it onto the other foot and learn to do an in-swinger.

As a 19 year old at my absolute peak of sunday league mediocrity as a right winger I was able to cut it back and whip one into the back post with my left foot.
 
Sam said:
I've found him painful to watch for the past 14 months personally.
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The problem is that he is a managers comfort blanket. He's Dirk Kuyt or James Milner.

Can't get rid of him, he puts a good shift in for me.
 
Sam said:
Doing the basics well should be the bloody minimum requirement for a United player! Not an indicator that a player is in good form.

That in itself says everything about the standards you're setting. Doing basics right = Good form.
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Yep and that's what I would consider to be good. Don't mistake good for "very good" or "great". He's been at the average (standard) level for too long. He's had three great games this season at right wing, unfortunately. I hate his style at the moment.
 
MoneyMay said:
Yep and that's what I would consider to be good. Don't mistake good for "very good" or "great". He's been at the average (standard) level for too long. He's had three great games this season at right wing, unfortunately. I hate his style at the moment.
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I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one then. Totally agree with your last sentence, mind.
 
Pexbo said:
It's not even his crossing that is the problem, he's completely incapable of getting into any sort of position to cross. He's the most one dimensional player I have ever seen. How can a player that spends his life playing football, not realise that he has to learn to pull it onto the other foot and learn to do an in-swinger.
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This is it. All he really ever does is try to drill it across without ever looking to see if someone is there or not. He doesn't have an ounce of unpredictability about his game.

Even if he doesn't use his left he'll never try to do something different with his right like attempt a cross from deep .
 
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