Antonio Valencia | 2013/14 Performances

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Theon said:
I definitely think he's currently a better option than Nani.

Nani is a better footballer but he needs to start showing it more. Valencia is getting into some kind of form and Moyes is doing well with him.
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Aye, massive form yesterday.

Give Nani more than 70 minutes before being benched for three games and he'll do better than anything we've seen from Valencia in the last 18 months. I'd say you and around three people (mungy being one of them) on this forum are the only ones who'd disagree with that.

Valencia has been a better option in the past than Nani for sure but he's been given so many games and not gotten anywhere near his previous form where as whenever Nani gets any sort of run in the team (up to the Real match last season) he looks far better.
 
How can Nani show more when he gets benched at the first sign of a poor performance where as Valencia is allowed the freedom to feed us crap for more than a season now
 
Cina said:
Aye, massive form yesterday.

Give Nani more than 70 minutes before being benched for three games and he'll do better than anything we've seen from Valencia in the last 18 months. I'd say you and around three people (mungy being one of them) on this forum are the only ones who'd disagree with that.

Valencia has been a better option in the past than Nani for sure but he's been given so many games and not gotten anywhere near his previous form where as whenever Nani gets any sort of run in the team (up to the Real match last season) he looks far better.
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Well yeah, I've already said he had a decent game. Judging by the MOTM thread I'm not the only one.

Why do you think Moyes benches Nani if he's such a magnificent player? It's quite obviously not as clear cut as you're saying it is.

He was benched because he was woeful against Stoke, and then Valencia came in for the next game against Fulham and was arguably the best player on the pitch. So he kept his place first choice place with Moyes.
 
Theon said:
Well yeah, I've already said he had a decent game. Judging by the MOTM thread I'm not the only one.

Why do you think Moyes benches Nani if he's such a magnificent player? It's quite obviously not as clear cut as you're saying it is.
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The same reason he started Welbeck over Januzaj I imagine. Moyes is more concerned about what our wingers do defensively than offensively most of the time. A trait that Fergie began to uncharacteristically show last season as well.
 
Theon said:
Well yeah, I've already said he had a decent game. Judging by the MOTM thread I'm not the only one.

Why do you think Moyes benches Nani if he's such a magnificent player? It's quite obviously not as clear cut as you're saying it is.
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Have to say... I am legitimately amazed by the MOTM thread.
 
finneh said:
The same reason he started Welbeck over Januzaj I imagine. Moyes is more concerned about what our wingers do defensively than offensively most of the time. A trait that Fergie began to uncharacteristically show last season as well.
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The difference between Nani and Valencia defensively isn't that significant actually, Nani is very good defensively and the idea that he isn't is a bit of a myth.

Januzaj/Welbeck is far more of a significant difference. But even there I disagree Moyes would use Welbeck solely because he tracks back more. I'll give Moyes more credit than that - Welbeck as well, actually.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Have to say... I am legitimately amazed by the MOTM thread.
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Fair do's, but you can surely admit that it obviously isn't an outrageous opinion that he had a decent game if so many people agree? Rooney in his post match interview said Valencia was brilliant as well.

I'm amazed people are criticising him for it actually. It was far from a great game, probably not even good and merely 'decent', but he was still the second best offensive player by a clear distance and without him we looked devoid of any creativity. His crosses didn't come off which can happen.
 
Theon said:
Well yeah, I've already said he had a decent game. Judging by the MOTM thread I'm not the only one.

Why do you think Moyes benches Nani if he's such a magnificent player? It's quite obviously not as clear cut as you're saying it is.

He was benched because he was woeful against Stoke, and then Valencia came in for the next game against Fulham and was arguably the best player on the pitch. So he kept his place first choice place with Moyes.
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Conclusions like that seem to point towards a heavy bias towards Valencia really. He really wasn't.

Regards the MotM thread, did anyone actually play well other than Rooney? No. I'd say it's Valencia by default for so many people because he had so much of the ball.

Yeah, Nani sucked against Stoke (like most of our team), but even Moyes said, he's a confidence player, he needs a run of games to hit his stride, therefore judging who is the better performer of the two this season and saying Valencia warrants his place over him is entirely unfair. I never said Nani is 'magnificent', why do people always overblow what peoples opinions of him are? It is pretty clear to me however that if he actually got a proper run in the team, he'd out perform the 1 in 11 cross shite we're getting with Valencia right now, Moyes just seems entirely unwilling to take that risk, probably because he's a new manager in a big job who'd rather the safe approach.
 
Theon said:
His crosses didn't come off which can happen.
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You keep saying that, but his crosses never come off. People wouldn't be criticizing them so much if this wasn't a constantly recurring theme, in basically every game he plays. If it was a case of a single game where he was unlucky with crosses, these statements would be justified, but it wasn't, his crossing has been awful for 18 months now.
 
Valencia - the defensive winger with one foot

Creates nothing

Gets constant games despite shit form for over 14 months

Nani - Attacking winger, can play left or right

Creates chances, can take a player on, and has variety to his game. Can have the occasional brain fart though

Doesn't get a run of even 5 games
 
Tibs said:
Valencia - the defensive winger with one foot

Creates nothing

Gets constant games despite shit form for over 14 months

Nani - Attacking winger, can play left or right

Creates chances, can take a player on, and has variety to his game. Can have the occasional brain fart though

Doesn't get a run of even 5 games
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Do you believe that dribble you wrote?
 
Cina said:
Conclusions like that seem to point towards a heavy bias towards Valencia really. He really wasn't.

Regards the MotM thread, did anyone actually play well other than Rooney? No. I'd say it's Valencia by default for so many people because he had so much of the ball.

Yeah, Nani sucked against Stoke (like most of our team), but even Moyes said, he's a confidence player, he needs a run of games to hit his stride, therefore judging who is the better performer of the two this season and saying Valencia warrants his place over him is entirely unfair. I never said Nani is 'magnificent', why do people always overblow what peoples opinions of him are? It is pretty clear to me however that if he actually got a proper run in the team, he'd out perform the 1 in 11 cross shite we're getting with Valencia right now, Moyes just seems entirely unwilling to take that risk, probably because he's a new manager in a big job who'd rather the safe approach.
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Ignore the magnificent comment, but either way its obvious you think he's a great player. Not even from this discussion but previous ones, you've always been a fan. Which might be why you're IMO harsh on Valencia. For example Valencia was definitely one of the best players against Fulham, I said it was arguable that he was the best which I think is true along with Rooney.

Moyes could choose Valencia for a lot of reasons, it isn't just that he's a safe manager. He took the risk with Januzaj when that could easily have backfired. The truth is that if Nani plays well enough then he'll win the place back from Valencia, Moyes has been pretty positive about Nani in the press. At the moment he isn't doing that IMO.
 
Theon said:
Ignore the magnificent comment, but either way its obvious you think he's a great player. Not even from this discussion but previous ones, you've always been a fan. Which might be why you're IMO harsh on Valencia. For example Valencia was definitely one of the best players against Fulham, I said it was arguable that he was the best which I think is true along with Rooney.

Moyes could choose Valencia for a lot of reasons, it isn't just that he's a safe manager. He took the risk with Januzaj when that could easily have backfired. The truth is that if Nani plays well enough then he'll win the place back from Valencia, Moyes has been pretty positive about Nani in the press. At the moment he isn't doing that IMO.
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I don't think he's a great player, I think he has the talent to be, but has never lived up to that talent. I also have nothing against Valencia, he's one of my favourite players on form, read back, I even argued with someone that at their best there is very little between the two (Nani 10/11 & Valencia 11/12), however it's clear Valencia's nowhere near the best anymore and hasn't been for a long time, you coming out with stuff like he was (arguably) our best player against Fulham, has been on good form, is a better option than Nani, that seems like far more biased than anything I've said.

What I want is Moyes to have the balls to drop Valencia because he's offered shit all offensively in most games, and instead give a chance (a proper chance) to a winger we know is still capable of being top class if he's actually given an extended run in our team, which you can't say about Valencia, because he has constantly been given extended runs and very rarely delivers.

Hell, when Nani does play, it's not even ahead of Valencia, Moyes still plays Valencia!
 
Cina said:
you coming out with stuff like he was (arguably) our best player against Fulham, has been on good form, is a better option than Nani, that seems like far more biased than anything I've said.
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Get real!

Against Fulham - 30 of the 34 posters had him in their top three MOTM. You even had him yours, Cina.

So how is saying he was arguably the best player so ridiculous? He was excellent in that game.

I also said that he was currently a better option than Nani, which is different. If he finds his best form (or even anywhere close to it) then he'll be a far better option. As it is though I think Valencia is playing better.
 
Theon said:
Get real!

Against Fulham - 30 of the 34 posters had him in their top three MOTM. You even had him yours, Cina.

So how is saying he was arguably the best player so ridiculous? He was excellent in that game.

I also said that he was currently a better option than Nani, which is different. If he finds his best form (or even anywhere close to it) then he'll be a far better option. As it is though I think Valencia is playing better.
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Top 3 = best player?

He's in quite a lot of top 3's for yesterday too, was he arguably our best player then?

I know what you said, it's crazy, he's currently a better option than a player we won't give games to? Right.
 
Cina said:
Top 3 = best player?

He's in quite a lot of top 3's for yesterday too, was he arguably our best player then?

I know what you said, it's crazy, he's currently a better option than a player we won't give games to? Right.
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Top 3 by virtually everyone who voted, and number one by many = arguably best player.

Nani has had games, Jesus. He got a game midweek, wasn't as good as Valencia, so started on the bench.
 
Theon said:
Top 3 by virtually everyone who voted, and number one by many = arguably best player.

Nani has had games, Jesus. He got a game midweek, wasn't as good as Valencia, so started on the bench.
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That was his first game in four games, you think that's enough?

Valencia clearly wasn't our best player against Fulham, he was one of them, 2nd/3rd, he did play well though.
 
@Cina

I agree. You can use this argument. Valencia was top three in that Fulham game because he was the only one who turned up in both halves - he played as a right back in the second half. Context is key. He didn't even do much in the first half. Anyone using that Fulham game needs to rewatch it, as it was a weird game...
 
Cina said:
That was his first game in four games, you think that's enough?

Valencia clearly wasn't our best player against Fulham, he was one of them, 2nd/3rd, he did play well though.
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Its not enough to find his best form but that's just something every player has to cope with. The fact is that he came in and was worse than Valencia, so Moyes was always going to pick Valencia for a must win game at Spurs.

Fine, you think he was the second best player. So do I (behind Rooney), but all I said is that it was arguable that he was the best. Which is was, it certainly wasn't a ridiculous opinion when other posters were saying he was the best player. Yet you come out with this which is way OTT.

Cina said:
you coming out with stuff like he was (arguably) our best player against Fulham, has been on good form, is a better option than Nani, that seems like far more biased than anything I've said.
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Theon said:
Its not enough to find his best form but that's just something every player has to cope with. The fact is that he came in and was worse than Valencia, so Moyes was always going to pick Valencia for a must win game at Spurs.

Fine, you think he was the second best player. So do I (behind Rooney), but all I said is that it was arguable that he was the best. Which is was, it certainly wasn't a ridiculous opinion when other posters were saying he was the best player. Yet you come out with this which is way OTT.
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Absolutely, I don't begrudge Valencia being picked yesterday over him, it's Welbeck being picked ahead of him that's where I think Moyes totally bottled it (or ahead of Januzaj, for that matter), still, overall this season he's had far less chances than Valencia has had which leads me back to my original point, that your logic that Valencia has been our best winger and deserves to start over our other wingers is flawed.
 
I'm just looking at his stats on WhoScored.

He's had 1 goal and 1 assist in 11 Premier League games this season. 3 goals and 2 assists in 17 games if you include the Champions League. Contributing on average a goal every 3.4 games and 0.9 key passes per game.


In the league last season he had 1 goal in 30 games, with 5 assists. Contributing a goal every 5 games.

That is genuinely shocking.

Everyone talks about us as a "club based on it's wing play". Well if we're going to succeed at that we need some quality there. when you compare him to the wingers we have had in the last 20 years, you'll see why we don't look very exciting with him and why he's so fraustrating.

Sharpe, Giggs, Kanchelskis, Beckham and Ronaldo. Depressing when you see him standing still and choosing to kick the ball at the defender.
 
Pexbo said:
I'm just looking at his stats on WhoScored.

He's had 1 goal and 1 assist in 11 Premier League games this season. 3 goals and 2 assists in 17 games if you include the Champions League. Contributing on average a goal every 3.4 games and 0.9 key passes per game.


In the league last season he had 1 goal in 30 games, with 5 assists. Contributing a goal every 5 games.

That is genuinely shocking.

Everyone talks about us as a "club based on it's wing play". Well if we're going to succeed at that we need some quality there. when you compare him to the wingers we have had in the last 20 years, you'll see why we don't look very exciting with him and why he's so fraustrating.

Sharpe, Giggs, Kanchelskis, Beckham and Ronaldo. Depressing when you see him standing still and choosing to kick the ball at the defender.
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We have no right to expect that level of wingplay at this club anymore. It is not a god given right and we should accept mediocrity and be patient in the hope it becomes half decent.

Repeat again x 100. This is one of the most boring repetitive threads on this forum
 
He's a useful option for stretching teams out wide with his positioning but he no longer provides enough quality going forward to be a guaranteed starter anymore, sadly.

He doesn't seem to run at defenders and put in dangerous crosses anywhere near as often as he did prior to last season.
 
He is running at defenders, that part has come back albeit he can only ever go round the outside. The final ball is the problem.
 
Is there a more one-footed winger playing for a top club than him? There were times where instead of using his left foot, he circles around just to use his right foot.
 
The one-footedness wouldn't be an issue if he could actually cross the ball which he can't which means in an attacking sense he is useless.
 
He must have taken a bet on how many times he could hit Vertonghen as hard as he can.
 
Raees said:
We have no right to expect that level of wingplay at this club anymore. It is not a god given right and we should accept mediocrity and be patient in the hope it becomes half decent.

Repeat again x 100. This is one of the most boring repetitive threads on this forum
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Indeed.
 
I find myself treble tapping square when crossing the ball with Valencia in Fifa now, mimicking real life subconsciously no doubt. "The Tony Drill" I've started calling it. Does he ever actually look for someone in the box anymore? When did he decide just belting the ball across as hard as possible was the best idea?
 
Mel_F said:
Is there a more one-footed winger playing for a top club than him? There were times where instead of using his left foot, he circles around just to use his right foot.
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Yesterday a chance fell to him on his left, yet rather than try and guide it into the corner or look for a teammate he took it with his right, ran it out of the box and passed it back. I just stared in silence.
 
Sunny Jim said:
You have clear pro-Valencia agenda but you are sensible poster.
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You're a good poster too, barring your Valencia hate.
I just love the fact how, and that's not directed at you, he is now 'not good enough' despite having a game of his life vs Spurs in comparison to Nani's performance against freaking Stoke at home. I mean, he was 'back' after the Leverkusen game and now he's not good enough. Don't know how to call it, retardation? A bit more than knee-jerk anyway. Suddenly we must play Nani as if some of you had any proofs he would have played better or is in better form right now.
 
Cina said:
Give Nani more than 70 minutes before being benched for three games and he'll do better than anything we've seen from Valencia in the last 18 months. I'd say you and around three people (mungy being one of them) on this forum are the only ones who'd disagree with that.
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I guess those who lambasted Fergie when he played Giggs at Stamford Bridge in UCL semi-final were right too? I mean, there could have been thousands of those in here when the line-ups popped up. Must have been righter than Fergie. Shame he didn't listen. The truth is Nani got his chances during those 18 months, he just hasn't delivered. Too harsh?
 
Tomuś said:
I guess those who lambasted Fergie when he played Giggs at Stamford Bridge in UCL semi-final were right too? I mean, there could have been thousands of those in here when the line-ups popped up. Must have been righter than Fergie. Shame he didn't listen. The truth is Nani got his chances during those 18 months, he just hasn't delivered. Too harsh?
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What the hell are you on about?
 
Nani created a goal for us against Stoke. Valencia failed to find our players on a number of occasions against Tottenham. How are they comparable? And in what way did Valencia have the game of his life?

Say suttin bruv.
 
Sam said:
Valencia's stats from today...

11 attempted crosses
1 Successful cross

:lol::lol:
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Against Leverkusen last week it was 11 attempted crosses, 0 successful crosses.

To his credit he's attempting to beat his man a lot more (than last season) and is getting into better crossing positions but his final ball is shockingly poor, and even more so given that we were attacking so much down that side yet nothing is coming off.
1 successful cross out of 22 in two games is awful and it's a massive waste.
 
All I'm talking about is that Fergie and now Moyes have been seeing more of Nani in one week than you lot, the vast majority as you suggested, have seen so far in his United career. Their competence, believe it or not, is incomparable to this of yours as well. As Rob from Chelsea said recently, he must not perform to a good level if he's being overlooked not only by Sir Alex but also Moyes. Do you lot really believe those two managers are such idiots that they would be risking results, trophies or in Moyes's case head if he really was the bees knees?
 
Tomuś said:
All I'm talking about is that Fergie and now Moyes have been seeing more of Nani in one week than you lot, the vast majority as you suggested, have seen so far in his United career. Their competence, believe it or not, is incomparable to this of yours as well. As Rob from Chelsea said recently, he must not perform to a good level if he's being overlooked not only by Sir Alex but also Moyes. Do you lot really believe those two managers are such idiots that they would be risking results, trophies or in Moyes's case head if he really was the bees knees?
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I hate shit like this, if we were to adapt this approach to the forum for everything, we may as well just shut the thing down, "ah feck it lads, we got thumped 4-1 by City but eh ... manager knows more than us so let's leave that be sure."

Moyes made quite a few questionable decisions on Saturday alone, starting Welbeck, shifting Kagawa out wide, bringing Young on, waiting til the 83rd minute to bring Nani on. Managers aren't perfect, you know, especially when they're adapting to a brand new club and team, so why shouldn't we question the decisions they make? You think a player with the fitness and shape of Nani, a Portugese international, somehow fails to impress in training? Is that why Moyes saw fit to offer him a five year contract? Is that something a club like ours would do with a player who has the issues you're suggesting above?
 
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