Antonio Valencia | 2013/14 Performances

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Theon said:
Fair enough, we view things differently then!

For example I think Valencia was far more threatening than Welbeck today, despite Welbeck winning the penalty.
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The birds on the stadium roof were more threatening than Welbeck was today though.

I don't think he played badly, per say, obviously there were positives in the performance, he looked more confident and was actually beating his man, but I still expect far more than that from a Utd winger, especially when he saw so much of the football.
 
Theon said:
Fair enough, we view things differently then!

For example I think Valencia was far more threatening than Welbeck today, despite Welbeck winning the penalty.
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It's a bit short-sighted to say he wasn't threatening because he didn't produce an assist or something. Striker can be a threat even if he doesn't score or work the keeper too much. Valencia got into dangerous positions through his own work and certainly drew the attention of their defenders. He didn't capitalize on that, yes, but he was a threat on that right wing. As much of a threat as anyone was today, apart from Rooney scoring two goals.
 
Theon said:
Valencia definitely offered a threat, come on. He was beating players all game and getting into dangerous positions - that is threatening. His crossing was poor but a lot of that was down to good defending, as well as just being a shit crosser.
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Like many of Welbeck's performances, he looked threatening, until it comes to the point when he had to use his head and put in a decent cross, or use his bloody left foot. Beating players and getting into dangerous positions is pointless if there's nothing on the end of it. I don't think that a club like United can afford to start 'attacking' players that don't have a clue what they're doing in or around the box. It's very frustrating.
 
Tomuś said:
It's a bit short-sighted to say he wasn't threatening because he didn't produce an assist or something. Striker can be a threat even if he doesn't score or work the keeper too much. Valencia got into dangerous positions through his own work and certainly drew the attention of their defenders. He didn't capitalize on that, yes, but he was a threat on that right wing. As much of a threat as anyone was today, apart from Rooney scoring two goals.
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Who said that?

He didn't even create a chance, that would be a start.
 
Summit said:
I agree to him playing well regarding dribbling and link up play etc...but that isn't just why he's in the team! In fact I would go as far to say that the most important reason he is in the team is consistently deliver great balls into the box for our attackers to get on the end. And I'm sorry to say he is failing miserably in that department.
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I agree with you, his crossing was awful and I've said that myself.

I just don't think he should be getting criticised for how he played today, there were far, far worse players and he actually looked like the only real source of creating chances. It didn't come off which can happen with Valencia, but he was still the only one who was actually attempting these things. Kagawa and Welbeck attempted nothing, they were never a threat in the way Valencia was.


2 Man Midfield said:
No, that's threatening to be threatening.
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:lol:
 
Would you rather someone beat his man ten times and lose the ball or someone do nothing most of the game but end up winning a penalty?
 
Theon said:
I agree with you, his crossing was awful and I've said that myself.

I just don't think he should be getting criticised for how he played today, there were far, far worse players and he actually looked like the only real source of creating chances. It didn't come off which can happen with Valencia, but he was still the only one who was actually attempting these things. Kagawa and Welbeck attempted nothing, they were never a threat in the way Valencia was.
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The only reason people are being critical is because some people (not you) are being absurdly positive about that performance.
 
kps88 said:
Would you rather someone beat his man ten times and lose the ball or someone do nothing most of the game but end up winning a penalty?
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If you can cross well, you don't need to beat your man. The fact that Valencia can beat his man is even more frustrating that he screws up the cross. Is for me anyway.
 
Tomuś said:
It's a bit short-sighted to say he wasn't threatening because he didn't produce an assist or something. Striker can be a threat even if he doesn't score or work the keeper too much. Valencia got into dangerous positions through his own work and certainly drew the attention of their defenders. He didn't capitalize on that, yes, but he was a threat on that right wing. As much of a threat as anyone was today, apart from Rooney scoring two goals.
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This is exactly my view.

It didn't come off today but that can happen. He was still the only one trying to create something, and on another day he could have had a couple of assists.
 
Valencia's stats from today...

11 attempted crosses
1 Successful cross

:lol::lol:
 
Shark22 said:
Beating players and getting into dangerous positions is pointless if there's nothing on the end of it.
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But its not pointless though, as on another day the block wouldn't get made and it would create a goal. It's just the way football goes that sometimes these things don't come off. I would much rather him play like he did today, beating his man and trying to create than play negatively and just keep possession.

So if Kagawa kept making through balls but there was nothing on the end of it then I wouldn't criticise him for that. It's just the way it goes. As it turned out Kagawa didn't do these things today and was never a threat in the way Valencia was.
 
Was dangerous all game but couldn't cross worth shit. Don't think he should have come off though. He had them going back all game. I'm not sure why we don't play both nani and him very often. Having an equal threat on both wings is so much better, because even if one side is ineffective, the opposition still have to worry about both sides and it stretches their defence, rather then everyone condensing to one side like today.
 
Orton said:
The cutback to Rooney, right?
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Indeed. So that's a debatable 'cross' in itself.

It actually pains we to watch Valencia nowadays. If we truly have any aspirations to become one of the best teams in Europe again, we'll need a far far better standard of attacking player then Valencia.
 
Theon said:
This is exactly my view.

It didn't come off today but that can happen. He was still the only one trying to create something, and on another day he could have had a couple of assists.
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Theon, it didn't come off today, and it isn't going to come off any day while he continues down the route of hitting the ball into the defender. He needs to understand that he's making it very, very easy for a defender to defend against him. He does the hard work by beating his man, then the next defender comes over knowing that is he keeps his feet planted and puts himself in Valencia's line of sight, then all is good and Valencia will blast the ball into him. What if just for once Valencia curled the ball around the defender? It would maybe give the defender a little more to think about the next time.
 
Sam said:
Indeed. So that's a debatable 'cross' in itself.

It actually pains we to watch Valencia nowadays. If we truly have any aspirations to become one of the best teams in Europe again, we'll need a far far better standard of attacking player then Valencia.
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Well for a start we need players who can create chances, because today I don't think we created any. The goals were from a penalty and a mishit clearance.
 
Cina said:
The only reason people are being critical is because some people (not you) are being absurdly positive about that performance.
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:lol: Aye, probably a circular thing because I'm reacting to the criticism by going OTT about how good he was.
 
His final ball wasn't good, nobody can claim that but he was miles better than the stop and spin on the spot displays he's been putting in for the past 12 months.
 
Thought he did a good job today and contributed with some good running at the fullbacks and a few crosses. Wasn't the best performance ever but he was our most effective supplier of the ball. Hopefully he can keep this up against all other teams. We are really devoid of any creation and our bread and butter has always been a cross from our right winger.
 
DevilRed said:
Thought he did a good job today and contributed with some good running at the fullbacks and a few crosses. Wasn't the best performance ever but he was our most effective supplier of the ball. Hopefully he can keep this up against all other teams. We are really devoid of any creation and our bread and butter has always been a cross from our right winger.
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... was he though?
 
I'm hearing all this 'standards have dropped if that was decent' etc. bollocks. I mean, you would have to be an idiot not to realize they have dropped and quite a long time ago as well. We no longer have Bests and Ronaldos and some have to come to terms with that. We have to work on what we have at the moment.
 
Put it this way.

Although he's playing well, would anyone actually be sad if we replaced him in the summer?
 
I think there's a middle he ground. He was threatening in how he attacked his man but once again attacks suffered because of a unwillingness to use him left foot and to try and pick someone out with a cross. It's fair to say that you can still be dangerous with your actual pass not coming off but th problem with Valencia is that it seems to be the norm that his drilled cross is blocked before it gets to the box. I'd be really interested to see the number of crosses he's put in that were successful over the last season and a half.

It's an improvement on what we've seen from recently but still he needs to be doing more, particularly with his crossing but tbf the bigger issue today was left wing where we got virtually nothing all game. If we're not going to create centrally then we can't only have one wing giving an output.
 
My favourite Valencia moment today was when there was that scramble near the 6 yard box in the first half, and the ball dropped to Valencia on his left foot, he could have just taken a chance and tried to smash it in with his left, but no, instead he shifted it onto his right, ran out of the area and passed it backwards towards the halfway line. Classic Valencia. He'll literally pass up an opportunity to score if it means he gets to avoid using his left foot.
 
Everything was spot on except the crosses which is a damn shame, he dominated Vertonghen and Chicheres when he came up against him only to shoot the ball like an idiot. His crossing doesn't work so maybe it's about fecking time he tries a different technique when he takes them :mad:
 
NinjaFletch said:
Put it this way.

Although he's playing well, would anyone actually be sad if we replaced him in the summer?
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It depends who the replacement might be. I rate Valencia, but I still think that SAF could have done better in the market, when Ronaldo left us. Real Madrid brought in Bale, and Ronaldo is still there. I don't expect us to match clubs Madrid and Barca market, but I do think that we should be doing a bit better. Bayern seem to have no problems, why can't we mimic their no nonsense approach?
 
kouroux said:
Everything was spot on except the crosses which is a damn shame, he dominated Vertonghen and Chicheres when he came up against him only to shoot the ball like an idiot. His crossing doesn't work so maybe it's about fecking time he tries a different technique when he takes them :mad:
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That's one thing where I hope Moyes takes note. Valencia forced them back on his side and gave us the initiative there. Someone with more attacking ability from wide areas like Nani or even Januzaj might have done more to push them back on the left. I mean Nani isn't as good defensively as Valencia but he's no worse than any of the other attackers the big teams play with regularly, certainly would offer evra as much cover as lennon would walker.

And yeah he really needs to change his mentality with crossing. I don't know where it's come from as he can clearly put in a aerial one, I remember when he first joined we mucst have got 6 or 7 goals from his cross for rooney to head in.
 
Only something that can hurt you is threatening. If I walk up to you and pull out a pistol, thats a threat. If I pull out a wet noodle, thats not a threat. Valencia is the latter. Yes he can beat his fullback but if he cant actually manage anything from that point he's not accomplishing anything except becoming a dead end to our attacks. The unfortunate part is a lot of the time we're happy to play the ball out there and do it again instead of crafting something through the middle.
 
Ash_G said:
That's one thing where I hope Moyes takes note. Valencia forced them back on his side and gave us the initiative there. Someone with more attacking ability from wide areas like Nani or even Januzaj might have done more to push them back on the left. I mean Nani isn't as good defensively as Valencia but he's no worse than any of the other attackers the big teams play with regularly, certainly would offer evra as much cover as lennon would walker.

And yeah he really needs to change his mentality with crossing. I don't know where it's come from as he can clearly put in a aerial one, I remember when he first joined we mucst have got 6 or 7 goals from his cross for rooney to head in.
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Yeah it's doing my head in, his drilling crosses aren't fecking working but he keeps doing them over and over again :wenger: Same with Evra crossing from deep ... Wtf do Moyes and his assistants do during the training sessions or when they review the different games ? Is it really something that hard to notice ? Why are we persisting with things that aren't working.
 
Put it this way, Lennon looked 3 times the player and he gets shat on by this forum any time he's mentioned.
 
Ekeke said:
Only something that can hurt you is threatening. If I walk up to you and pull out a pistol, thats a threat. If I pull out a wet noodle, thats not a threat. Valencia is the latter. Yes he can beat his fullback but if he cant actually manage anything from that point he's not accomplishing anything except becoming a dead end to our attacks. The unfortunate part is a lot of the time we're happy to play the ball out there and do it again instead of crafting something through the middle.
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Spot on, and beautifully put. Wet noodle :lol:
 
Sam said:
My favourite Valencia moment today was when there was that scramble near the 6 yard box in the first half, and the ball dropped to Valencia on his left foot, he could have just taken a chance and tried to smash it in with his left, but no, instead he shifted it onto his right, ran out of the area and passed it backwards towards the halfway line. Classic Valencia. He'll literally pass up an opportunity to score if it means he gets to avoid using his left foot.
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He actually ran about 10 yards outside the box and turned just to get it on his right foot. It's laughable really for someone who plays for United.
 
bosnian_red said:
Was dangerous all game but couldn't cross worth shit. Don't think he should have come off though. He had them going back all game. I'm not sure why we don't play both nani and him very often. Having an equal threat on both wings is so much better, because even if one side is ineffective, the opposition still have to worry about both sides and it stretches their defence, rather then everyone condensing to one side like today.
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This is a worry for me as well. Our dependence on the right wing, especially when Valencia plays, is hurting us. He had a decent game, plenty of the ball and will produce some good stuff at times but everyone knows that we automatically make him our main attacking outlet. His crosses hit nothing but the first man today. Meanwhile Welbeck/Kagawa and Evra were producing nothing from the left. We could have done with Nani/Januzaj to mix things up and widen the pitch on both sides. They can both carry an attack and feed our strikers with a quality final ball. It's as if we've forgotten that we have a whole other side of the pitch to operate in and we aren't making full use of it.
 
Sixpence said:
He actually ran about 10 yards outside the box and turned just to get it on his right foot. It's laughable really for someone who plays for United.
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Its laughable for a professional footballer, never mind a Manchester United player.

And by laughable, I mean utterly pathetic.
 
kouroux said:
Yeah it's doing my head in, his drilling crosses aren't fecking working but he keeps doing them over and over again :wenger: Same with Evra crossing from deep ... Wtf do Moyes and his assistants do during the training sessions or when they review the different games ? Is it really something that hard to notice ? Why are we persisting with things that aren't working.
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But what's worse is this is something we've seen for at least a season now. But then that's the frustrating thing with most our problems; midfield, often lack of urgency in attack/killing teams off, not getting the most out of wide players, defensively being too open, these are things that almost all of us know are issues and they're just not being addressed for some reason under Fergie or Moyes. It's not like these are suddenly new issues, they've been there for a while, some of them are probably all part of the same thing which is that lack of another quality midfielder which would obviously have ramifications for the tempo we play at, the way the wingers play etc, and Moyes has suggested he acknowledges the issue by going for fabregas, but it's still frustrating.
 
Ash_G said:
But what's worse is this is something we've seen for at least a season now. But then that's the frustrating thing with most our problems; midfield, often lack of urgency in attack/killing teams off, not getting the most out of wide players, defensively being too open, these are things that almost all of us know are issues and they're just not being addressed for some reason under Fergie or Moyes. It's not like these are suddenly new issues, they've been there for a while, some of them are probably all part of the same thing which is that lack of another quality midfielder which would obviously have ramifications for the tempo we play at, the way the wingers play etc, and Moyes has suggested he acknowledges the issue by going for fabregas, but it's still frustrating.
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Maybe I'm idealistic but I think coaches can influence the way players can do certain things, Moyes is not gonna teach them everything but with a few decisions here and there, the entire cohesion could be better.
 
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