It's basically an issue with not being able to call a spade a spade. If you play for a big team like Manchester United as an attacker, you're supposed to provide a genuine attacking threat. Spending all game being solid defensively and doing bugger all going forward is not a good performance from an attacker unless it's a game the team sits back in. Also, it becomes an even worse performance given how much on top we were and who we were playing. He wasn't horrible like Bebe, but I hope people aren't using that sort of standard for footballers like young and Valencia who are first team players for Manchester United.
Antonio Valencia | 2013/14 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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Shouldn't be anywhere near the first team anymore. Squad player at best.
Whatever he 'had', he's completely lost.
Whatever he 'had', he's completely lost.
No end result so quite frankly all that supposed good work ment nothing.
I really want to know what's happened to his crossing ability. He used to have that understanding with Wayne Rooney's head, then he became the low cross specialist, now he can run up and down the pitch a lot but can't cross a ball well at all, which was always his trade in this league.
I hope we get a chance to see Zaha soon. No matter how raw he is, I'd rather we were shaping out a rough diamond rather than trying to resurrect something close to extinction (probably a bit harsh and short sighted).
I hope we get a chance to see Zaha soon. No matter how raw he is, I'd rather we were shaping out a rough diamond rather than trying to resurrect something close to extinction (probably a bit harsh and short sighted).
Never felt he was United starter quality. A James Maclean of a winger. The fact that he and Young may be first choice for two of our four attacking positions is an embarrassment (yes, our favourite word I know) to the club. If we put him up for sale he'd be a Newcastle player within 24 hours.
Been saying for a while that while I acknowledge our need for a midfielder, we are short a top class attacking talent with pace, skill, creativity and goals.
Been saying for a while that while I acknowledge our need for a midfielder, we are short a top class attacking talent with pace, skill, creativity and goals.
I sadly agree that he shouldn't be anywhere near the starting 11, but he'll continue to start, just as he did under SAF.
Indeed. That's the problem.
He's in because he's the safe option, he'll track back and work his bollocks off. I've said it in other threads but this is just Moyes been sensible in his team selection.
On his performance, he's been average for a couple of years now and, as much as I like him, I can't see him remaining a Manchester United player too much longer in the future unless he reclaims his form.
Then again, I suppose we've given Anderson five or so years to prove himself, and he's been average.
On his performance, he's been average for a couple of years now and, as much as I like him, I can't see him remaining a Manchester United player too much longer in the future unless he reclaims his form.
Then again, I suppose we've given Anderson five or so years to prove himself, and he's been average.
I'm afraid that we might not see the Valencia from 2009-12 again to be honest, last season we were positive about him getting back to his best but he literally went the whole season without a single impressive performance. It got to a point where we have to look for positives in a distinctly average performance and try to spin it around to make him look good.
I don't know what happened to him but with that sort of form he shouldn't be playing. Young, Nani and even Kagawa and Januzaj offer more, Zaha would probably be better down the right if given a chance too. I appreciate his effort and the fact that he tracks back but we cannot afford to keep playing him just because he used to be good.
I don't know what happened to him but with that sort of form he shouldn't be playing. Young, Nani and even Kagawa and Januzaj offer more, Zaha would probably be better down the right if given a chance too. I appreciate his effort and the fact that he tracks back but we cannot afford to keep playing him just because he used to be good.
I can't say he was awfull yesterday, because he did nothing wrong, but it's Crystal Palace we played against, and the real problem is that he did nothing good, except for few corners we got after his attempted crosses.
He LITERELLY created nothing attacking wise for 87 minutes against team that was down to ten men for more than 45 minutes(he had good pass for Rooney in 87th minute).
He looks clueless, and I really don't think this is bad form we are talking, he simply isn't showing any quality atm or in last year or so to be regular starter for Manchester United. I just hope we aren't going to start him every week finding his form like we did last season.
He LITERELLY created nothing attacking wise for 87 minutes against team that was down to ten men for more than 45 minutes(he had good pass for Rooney in 87th minute).
He looks clueless, and I really don't think this is bad form we are talking, he simply isn't showing any quality atm or in last year or so to be regular starter for Manchester United. I just hope we aren't going to start him every week finding his form like we did last season.
Valencia plays ahead of the likes of Zaha simply because he offers defensive options. That is the current Moyes side.
I'm starting to think he was told to err on the side of caution and not to force the issue. During this barren run of his, in the games we've been down and needed a goal or when he's played at full back he's been a hell of alot more adventurous. Another reason I say this is because if you watch Valencia for Ecuador, it's like night and day as he's more than willing to try and make things happen.
I thought he actually played better than he has for a long time.
Still nowhere near the quality of a couple of seasons ago, but nowhere near as bad as he was playing last season either.
His final ball could be better but he was at least trying to run past his marker for a change.
Still nowhere near the quality of a couple of seasons ago, but nowhere near as bad as he was playing last season either.
His final ball could be better but he was at least trying to run past his marker for a change.
Can we change the thread title? Something like "Antonio Valencia giving up".
"Doctors giving up on Valencias left foot. It's clinically dead because of neglect." That would be a headline for the Daily Mail. They love that shit.
I find he plays very tucked in at the moment. Almost as a third CM on the right rather than an out and out winger. He hasn't been overly poor, but he has done nothing exciting either. I think he was selected over Nani/Zaha because we started Fabio and I think Moyes wanted to make sure that there was good defensive cover for Fabio if he got caught up the pitch/out of position.
Certainly not a bad game from him; at least he showed some willingness and ability to just run past players with sheer pace and strength. That was something he looked reluctant to last season. A bit of an average game, but not bad. Defensively he is superb though - especially against Liverpool
Not really. One of the recurring complaints about him last season was about his unwillingness to run at his fullback and try to beat a man, regardless of the position he played in. He got the ball, looked up and once he saw a defender blocking the way he turned back and usually passed the ball to either Carrick or the right back.
Completely false. McLean is a championship player, while Valencia was named Manchester United player of the year only two seasons back.
You lot really are a fickle bunch. No need to go overboard on this - he's still one of the best wingers in the country and in his day is absolutely unplayable. He had a poor season last year but I actually think the signs this term are quite promising. Rather than the tentative winger we saw last season, he's started taking people on again, running into space and smashing it into the box rather than dilly dallying and passing it back. His one footedness has been done to death and it seems a real weakness when he's off colour but the type of player he is - rarely cutting inside and rather looking to beat his man and cross all the time, it doesn't seem to matter at all when he's fit and firing. He's clearly a confidence player and that was something he lacked last year, but I think by the end of the season you'll all be singing his praises again. He's still an absolute tank of a winger and is still a great option for us.
When was his last "day"?
We can only judge based on what we've seen, and what we've seen in the last 14 months from him has been muck. Has he had a single game where he was above 6/7 out of 10 in that period?
He might be able to get back to his best, but I find myself asking, why is he playing so poorly exactly? He's not carrying an injury, not out of position, he plays plenty of games. What could possibly be the case for such an insanely prolonged spell of bad play from him?
I think there has to come a time when people need to stop using the "on his day" argument as an excuse for him because we haven't seen that day in a very long time.
In terms of a long term loss of form can anyone remember another United player go from such great heights to what we see at the moment? Age and injuries impact all players but i mean a decline without anything obvious going on?
I remember Kanchelskis dropping off badly but was due to "external factors" most likely. Giggs has had bad patches on a number of occassions as well.
I remember Kanchelskis dropping off badly but was due to "external factors" most likely. Giggs has had bad patches on a number of occassions as well.
Giggs though has always played in a similar fashion it was more about stuff not coming off for him as opposed to anything he'd changed in his game. Valencia looks completely unwilling to take anyone on unless he happens to have caught them on the counter and there is loads of space for him to run in to. Add to that he doesn't seem to want to cross the ball from slightly deeper, but as I said he's not taking people on so he's not getting to the byline enough to do a pullback.
I thought last season that the argument that he had been "found out" didn't make sense. Not every team can suddenly be able to stop him but maybe its a combination of things from teams wising up to the fact he wants/needs lots of space to move in to, us loosing Scholes long pass which led to him getting the ball high up the pitch and one on one and maybe a real loss of confidence from him.
A nothing player. Those referring to his 'super' season, might it be not the other way around, that he has played above his level for one season and now is showing what he's truly all about... a Dirk Kuyt winger.
Not the first time a player's had a good period with everyone thinking he's all that and then turns out to be average crap.
Not the first time a player's had a good period with everyone thinking he's all that and then turns out to be average crap.
He showed willingness at the end of last season, and at the start of this season, but the point is that nothing is coming out from that willingness alone. He is trying to run past players in every game, but he never looks like actually leaving them behind him, they always end up blocking his cross.
It's really interesting, I think defenders have tough job against him in almost every game, even when he is in bad form, but still they rarely come out as a losers against him in last season and start of this one.
He just does nothing anymore. Doesn't take on his man, doesn't cross the ball when in space...
He just slows the play down and plays it square/backwards. It's disappointing, because he was an absolute beast for a period.
He just slows the play down and plays it square/backwards. It's disappointing, because he was an absolute beast for a period.
I think Valencia will play less games this season than Young, Nani, Welbeck and Kagawa. At least I hope so.
He hasn't got the confidence to play for United (but that may be something to do with lacking the ability too).
I'm not so sure, whatever the hell it is about him, managers seem to love playing him regardless of form.
Oh, sure at least he showed this, at least he showed that. That's all I've been seeing in this thread, excuses.
The reality is that he's been nowhere near good enough to start for us. In fact, for a club that has has a history of top class, devastating wingers, it's quite sad to see a player in such blatantly shit form consistently start for us on the right wing. As much as I do like the guy.
I think it's clear what happened, he just couldn't live up to the standards that Michael Owen set with the #7 shirt and crumbled under the pressure of it.
True. I think SAF liked him because he was reliable and because so much of our game involved spraying those passes out to the right flank, whilst typically the left winger was given a bit more freedom to roam inside. I think/hope that Moyes picking Valencia for now is a combination of not wanting to rock the boat too much too soon, and because Nani and Kagawa haven't been fit yet (and Zaha and Januzaj are young n' learnin'). I mean, he opted for Young and Giggs ahead of him at Anfield, so I think Moyes does prefer the inside-forward/playmaker type player to your typical winger - so I hope as the season progresses we will see less Valencia. If we are to go to 4231 as most people want and Moyes played at Everton, then Nani/Welbeck/Young/Kagawa are a better fit.
I'm not sure how much is just wishful thinking on my part though.
I wasn't giving excuses, more that I think he's showing improvements. I was pulling my hair that he played ahead of Nani last season with his poor performances, but I do think he's showing some improvement this season. He needs to step up further though, no doubt, and I do expect Nani to be given more game time. That Valencia was limited with Jones as fullback came as no surprise though - Jones offers nothing going forwards.
That's true. Valencia and Rafael in particular had a great thing going down the right wing at one time. It'd be great if we could see something like that again if Moyes does insist on starting him.
When you think about it HE has the toughest job in football and not moyes.
He's been found out.
"Immigrants have stolen Valencia's left foot", now that'd be more like the Daily Mail's headline.
Do we dare to dream lads?
Might just be the confidence lift he needs. Nothing would please me more than seeing Tony V back to his devastating best.
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