Antonio Rüdiger

Tempting a player to sign for us because he knows it’s the last big contract of his career is exactly the sort of thing we need to avoid. This is how you end up with a squad full of players who aren’t motivated by glory.
 
Maguire Rudiger Varane in a back 3 is kind of interesting for me.

Ralf has been playing Elanga deep, as a wingback as well.

Elanga and Shaw as wingbacks perhaps? Would help us going forward thats for sure
 
Red the Bear said:
Great player , but I'm just afraid that the moment we get him he goes over the hill.
Definitely the most established cb on the market whose at the peak of his powers.
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We need someone reaching their peak, not at their peak because if they're at their peak, there's only one way to go.
 
Reading through a Chelsea forum thread on him, a lot of them repeatedly raise the issue of him being worse in a back four too. Opinions ranging from "he's inconsistent in a back four" to "he will flop if he moves to a club that plays a back four".

And given he's 29 years old, you don't expect any improvement on that front. If he's inconsistent in a back four for them, he'd be inconsistent (or worse) in a back four for us.

I'd pass. Frankly any firm notion that he's worse in a back four should immediately kill the idea as he's not that without flaws in a back three either.
 
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crossy1686 said:
In all the games I've seen him play, he's always in the middle of some potential kick off, Pepe-esque. I'm sure Chelsea fan's love it but he annoys the shit out of me, never seems like he's fully in control of himself. Anyway, big salary on a CB? No thanks.
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I’d personally welcome it, we have way too many softies in our team.. as Jose said we need more cnuts and he certainly is one.

As for the salary thing yeah, if his wages are ridiculous I’d pass. Fed up of us paying ridiculous wages and screwing our wage structure.
 
Rudiger is an absolute warrior and an absolute shithouse as well. Just the sort of player we need as long as he is motivated and we don't end up paying him insane wages.

Hes not a glamorous signing either so I don't think there will be many clubs lining up to pay him £300k/week.

I think in the right squad with the right mentality he would be great. It remains to be seen whether ETH can foster that sort of mentality or if the players will just reject him and do what they always do.
 
He is exactly the player we should stay away from.
29, wants one final bumper contract.

Its not like he will help us win titles, by the time we challenge for something we will want him gone, what's the point?
 
holdsteady said:
Maguire Rudiger Varane in a back 3 is kind of interesting for me.

Ralf has been playing Elanga deep, as a wingback as well.

Elanga and Shaw as wingbacks perhaps? Would help us going forward thats for sure
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Would rather have lindelof or shaw in a back 3 than maguire.
 
If he wants to move from Chelsea to us in our current state, I have a feeling it's mostly due to money motivation. If coupling with trophy ambition surely he can get some offers if he wants to leave Chelsea? Is he even our club closet fan?
 
romufc said:
He is exactly the player we should stay away from.
29, wants one final bumper contract.

Its not like he will help us win titles, by the time we challenge for something we will want him gone, what's the point?
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We won’t be challenging in 3 or 4 years with a squad of 20 year olds either. People need to drop this line of thinking IMO. Firstly, every Saturday counts. Not just Saturday 3pm in 4 years. We have games to play, matches to win and a culture to build along the way. No reason the centre half we sign in 4 years cannot be the player to come and replace Rudiger and the foundation he’s helped build.

Also, nobody is there to lead these promising young players. Real can sign Camavinga and have him on the bench for a year. If we had signed him, he would have been required to be a saviour immediately, or he’d be damaged goods in no time. If we signed Timber, it would be the same. If City signed him, he’d be on the bench and show his value over time.

Senior pros are needed in our squad. The likes of Antony and others we are linked with need to come in and immediately be looked at to drag United forward, while still trying to figure out their own games. Whether we sign Rudiger or not, we need some 29+ year olds in the team who we can expect to perform immediately while this ‘4 years from now’ team is developing in the background. Otherwise those kids will be finished, destroyed, injury prone and have shattered confidence from 3 years of being overplayed and over criticised.

IMO, we could do a lot worse than Rudiger and Eriksen this summer personally.
 
Rozay said:
We won’t be challenging in 3 or 4 years with a squad of 20 year olds either. People need to drop this line of thinking IMO. Firstly, every Saturday counts. Not just Saturday 3pm in 4 years. We have games to play, matches to win and a culture to build along the way. No reason the centre half we sign in 4 years cannot be the player to come and replace Rudiger and the foundation he’s helped build.

Also, nobody is there to lead these promising young players. Real can sign Camavinga and have him on the bench for a year. If we had signed him, he would have been required to be a saviour immediately, or he’d be damaged goods in no time. If we signed Timber, it would be the same. If City signed him, he’d be on the bench and show his value over time.

Senior pros are needed in our squad. The likes of Antony and others we are linked with need to come in and immediately be looked at to drag United forward, while still trying to figure out their own games. Whether we sign Rudiger or not, we need some 29+ year olds in the team who we can expect to perform immediately while this ‘4 years from now’ team is developing in the background. Otherwise those kids will be finished, destroyed, injury prone and have shattered confidence from 3 years of being overplayed and over criticised.

IMO, we could do a lot worse than Rudiger and Eriksen this summer personally.
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We won't challenge for the league ever if we keep signing mercenaries.

You're clearly forgetting that he wants to be paid about 300k a week.

We need senior pros, I agree which is why we have DDG, Varane, Ronaldo in the team.

Why would a 29 year old want to come to United ? After winning the CL, a club in the CL. I would really question his intentions.

Weren't you the one complaining that Amad is not getting game time and he is wasted because he was on the bench?

Who said it was either sign a 29 year old or a 18 year old? We can easily sign 23 year olds who develop into top players.
 
Whatever about generally, I definitely don't think CB is an area where we need to bring in senior pros. All our current CBs are in their late twenties as is.

And certainly not senior pros on ludicrous contracts who might not be that good in a back four.
 
This is exactly the type of signing we need to avoid moving forwards.

Rudiger is a cracking player but our policy of signing older players on huge wages has not been successful at all.
 
Why is he not extending with Chelsea? Is it purely because of the money? If so, stay away from him.
 
DevTheRed said:
I’d personally welcome it, we have way too many softies in our team.. as Jose said we need more cnuts and he certainly is one.

As for the salary thing yeah, if his wages are ridiculous I’d pass. Fed up of us paying ridiculous wages and screwing our wage structure.
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There has to be other CB's with those traits though? It doesn't seem to be asking too much to find someone who's aggressive and likes to scrap when needed (and is a decent defender also). I think we steer clear based on the contract he would want and find someone younger with a hunger to prove something.
 
romufc said:
We won't challenge for the league ever if we keep signing mercenaries.

You're clearly forgetting that he wants to be paid about 300k a week.

We need senior pros, I agree which is why we have DDG, Varane, Ronaldo in the team.

Why would a 29 year old want to come to United ? After winning the CL, a club in the CL. I would really question his intentions.

Weren't you the one complaining that Amad is not getting game time and he is wasted because he was on the bench?

Who said it was either sign a 29 year old or a 18 year old? We can easily sign 23 year olds who develop into top players.
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Well a 29 year old is either a mercenary or not good enough, which is perhaps your own complex if you could never see another scenario in which they’d want to come here. You are not going to sign a promising or up and coming 29 year old trying to prove himself, so in effect, you are saying we shouldn’t sign 29 year olds. I’m not forgetting he wants to be paid £300k. I am also not forgetting that this is Manchester United. We can pay players £300k. Players that want to earn £300k are limited to a handful of clubs, and ours is one of them. I am not scared of players coming here wanting to earn well, that’s what happens when you are a key player at Manchester United.

And on the contrary, my comments regarding Amad were the opposite. It was about a lack of strategy. I said that I’d have had no problem if we signed Amad and then signed a 29-31 year old winger ahead of him. I did, however, question the merit of having 3 players aged between 19 and 21 who you are all trying to develop in the same position. And I stand by that. It was obvious from the beginning that Amad, Greenwood AND Sancho could not all become our long term right sided forward. So it begged the question of whether we invested in Amad because we thought it would be him, or not. Sancho has now (unsurprisingly) ended up on the left now, but the idea of buying him to be our long term RW 6 months after buying Amad to be our long term RW made no sense, regardless of whatever the perceived gap was between them at the time. Buy an older player and develop the long term replacement in Amad, was my argument.
 
Rozay said:
Well a 29 year old is either a mercenary or not good enough, which is perhaps your own complex if you could never see another scenario in which they’d want to come here. You are not going to sign a promising or up and coming 29 year old trying to prove himself, so in effect, you are saying we shouldn’t sign 29 year olds. I’m not forgetting he wants to be paid £300k. I am also not forgetting that this is Manchester United. We can pay players £300k. Players that want to earn £300k are limited to a handful of clubs, and ours is one of them. I am not scared of players coming here wanting to earn well, that’s what happens when you are a key player at Manchester United.

And on the contrary, my comments regarding Amad were the opposite. It was about a lack of strategy. I said that I’d have had no problem if we signed Amad and then signed a 29-31 year old winger ahead of him. I did, however, question the merit of having 3 players aged between 19 and 21 who you are all trying to develop in the same position. And I stand by that. It was obvious from the beginning that Amad, Greenwood AND Sancho could not all become our long term right sided forward. So it begged the question of whether we invested in Amad because we thought it would be him, or not. Sancho has now (unsurprisingly) ended up on the left now, but the idea of buying him to be our long term RW 6 months after buying Amad to be our long term RW made no sense, regardless of whatever the perceived gap was between them at the time. Buy an older player and develop the long term replacement in Amad, was my argument.
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No context actually. I never said we should never sign 29 year olds. I said this signing is not right for us. We are appointing a new manager to instil a new culture. If the manager wants to sign younger more enthusiastic players, signing Rudiger would be exactly what the old regime did, shiny toy available sign.

I have no problem with players getting paid big wages however; I am of the opinion to earn a big wage at United you need to prove it at United.

I guess I want to see us sign players who can prove themselves rather than players who chose us for money.
 
sullydnl said:
Reading through a Chelsea forum thread on him, a lot of them repeatedly raise the issue of him being worse in a back four too. Opinions ranging from "he's inconsistent in a back four" to "he will flop if he moves to a club that plays a back four".

And given he's 29 years old, you don't expect any improvement on that front. If he's inconsistent in a back four for them, he'd be inconsistent (or worse) in a back four for us.

I'd pass. Frankly any firm notion that he's worse in a back four should immediately kill the idea as he's not that without flaws in a back three either.
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I've also heard this tirelessly from the German national team fans. Likely both sets have a point, a back three is the only thing keeping Maguire in the England fold so clearly that change in system has a night and day difference compared to defending across a back four.
 
romufc said:
No context actually. I never said we should never sign 29 year olds. I said this signing is not right for us. We are appointing a new manager to instil a new culture. If the manager wants to sign younger more enthusiastic players, signing Rudiger would be exactly what the old regime did, shiny toy available sign.

I have no problem with players getting paid big wages however; I am of the opinion to earn a big wage at United you need to prove it at United.

I guess I want to see us sign players who can prove themselves rather than players who chose us for money.
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There is no saying that an older player cannot prove themselves. Young players want money too. I imagine Chelsea are not offering Rudiger peanuts as it is. We’ve signed plenty of younger players over the last decade who haven’t shown anything. We signed a 34 year old Cavani who came in and performed. We can sign young players but they need seniority. Right now if we signed a 22 year old Rice we’d probably be looking at him to captain the team. City were not looking at Rodri to lead anyone. He just got to grow.

Why is Nkunku or Nunez for example any less a ‘shiny toy’ than Rudiger? All this sounds like typical Redcafe inferiority complex to me. Every year we get the usual disbelief that anyone would genuinely want to play for us. I strongly believe that this set the fan’s relationship with Pogba off on the wrong foot from the beginning. When the links started, they were dismissed. The line was that Real and City would also be interested, so why would he come here? As a result, when he eventually did, there was always the suspicion that he has come for the ‘wrong reasons’. Our fans love a Chicharito or a Bruno Fernandes type of hero. We could never cope with a Neymar, and at the root of it, IMO, is a disbelief that anyone who has any suitors above Aston Villa could want to pull on a United shirt. And it’s been like that for a decade.
 
I’ve been listening to Rio’s podcasts a lot and one thing both him and Anton keep harping on about is the communication and organization - which obviously we lack at the moment.

I know it’s different systems (2 at the back and 3 at the back) but if I remember correctly, Rudiger only started being the player he is now, since Thiago Silva came in. He’s known to be an excellent organizer and reader - so could it be that he is performing now due to Silva, as opposed to just being in a back 3? Pure question, I don’t watch them enough to back my claims
 
I think he’ll be a super signing in the short term. Wages are way way ott though. I’d also much rather us go for someone young who was going to develop into a world class player. This would finally be the end for Bailly and Jones. No great loss there currently but either one could have been world class or close to it if they could stay fit for longer than a few games. It’s a pity for them how things turned out.
 
I’ve just looked and only Rudiger. Rubie is an intermediate party though and not part of the agency. He’s very close to Rudiger though and brokered the move to Chelsea
 
Rozay said:
There is no saying that an older player cannot prove themselves. Young players want money too. I imagine Chelsea are not offering Rudiger peanuts as it is. We’ve signed plenty of younger players over the last decade who haven’t shown anything. We signed a 34 year old Cavani who came in and performed. We can sign young players but they need seniority. Right now if we signed a 22 year old Rice we’d probably be looking at him to captain the team. City were not looking at Rodri to lead anyone. He just got to grow.

Why is Nkunku or Nunez for example any less a ‘shiny toy’ than Rudiger? All this sounds like typical Redcafe inferiority complex to me. Every year we get the usual disbelief that anyone would genuinely want to play for us. I strongly believe that this set the fan’s relationship with Pogba off on the wrong foot from the beginning. When the links started, they were dismissed. The line was that Real and City would also be interested, so why would he come here? As a result, when he eventually did, there was always the suspicion that he has come for the ‘wrong reasons’. Our fans love a Chicharito or a Bruno Fernandes type of hero. We could never cope with a Neymar, and at the root of it, IMO, is a disbelief that anyone who has any suitors above Aston Villa could want to pull on a United shirt. And it’s been like that for a decade.
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Everyone wants money, a younger player that is hungry, wanting to prove something is the type of player we need.

Rudiger is a top defender but in my opinion he is not worth the money he is asking for, especially for us now.

I agree that we shouldn't sign Rice either, given that most of our £70m+ signings haven't really come off, Rice is just another player that is hyped up and the price is ridiculous. Good player but not worth anywhere near what they want.

34 year old Cavani who is barely fit ? How has he done well? He doesn't even want to play for the club, we begged him to stay, the reason he did? Money.

Nunez is a shiny toy, a player that gets goals one season and is on everyones lips, I bet the ones wanting to sign him have only seen him in 2/3 CL games. Nkuku is a player that is not on our scouts list, he is a player recommended by Ralf. Look at Ralf's transfer history to tell you why he isn't just a shiny toy.
 
I imagine he’s using United in this and would be surprised if we’re interested. That said very good player.
 
He'd be the best centre back at the club. Would be another huge wage though which im not sure is a great thing - but coming in on a free wouldn't be a bad thing.

Adds some bastard to the team too.
 
I doubt we’re interested. He’s too much of a hothead and has shades of PlayStation footballer David Luiz about him when he charges forward. It’s not a good match. Would much rather look at other options (De Ligt being my top choice).
 
My mate who follows Chelsea thinks he’s a good leader at the back but is flaky in terms of consistency, plus he benefits from Tuchel playing 5 at the back and question marks loom over whether he’s good enough in a 4 at the back.
 
Vapor trail said:
I've also heard this tirelessly from the German national team fans. Likely both sets have a point, a back three is the only thing keeping Maguire in the England fold so clearly that change in system has a night and day difference compared to defending across a back four.
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If Chelsea and German fans say he isn't as good in a back four then that should be a giant red flag.
 
romufc said:
Everyone wants money, a younger player that is hungry, wanting to prove something is the type of player we need.

Rudiger is a top defender but in my opinion he is not worth the money he is asking for, especially for us now.

I agree that we shouldn't sign Rice either, given that most of our £70m+ signings haven't really come off, Rice is just another player that is hyped up and the price is ridiculous. Good player but not worth anywhere near what they want.

34 year old Cavani who is barely fit ? How has he done well? He doesn't even want to play for the club, we begged him to stay, the reason he did? Money.

Nunez is a shiny toy, a player that gets goals one season and is on everyones lips, I bet the ones wanting to sign him have only seen him in 2/3 CL games. Nkuku is a player that is not on our scouts list, he is a player recommended by Ralf. Look at Ralf's transfer history to tell you why he isn't just a shiny toy.
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Cavani played, and scored plenty, last season. And if he is only here for money we wouldn’t have had to beg him in the first place. He already had an option to extend which he initially did not plan to take.

Nkunku is a shiny toy because he is this year’s ‘we need to sign him’ on the basis that he has scored several goals. Not last summer, not the summer before. It was Arsenal who were most strongly linked a few years back. Now our fans want him because 25 goals and 20 assists.

Ultimately, I have no particular desire for us to sign Rudiger. However, my point is simply that that isn’t because he is the grand old age of 29. I am not suspicious of a 29 year old who chooses to play for Manchester United. I just want us to get a top defender. Obviously 300k is a lot of money, but I’m sure I don’t need to mention the obvious of us jot paying a transfer fee.
Whether we sign Rudiger or not doesn’t bother me, my issue is with any notion that essentially, 29 is too old a player for us to bring to the club. I disagree, a mixture is needed, otherwise these kids will go nowhere. You say we cannot win anything with mercenaries, however, my issue is that you cannot see any other explanation beyond being a mercenary to play for Manchester United. Thiago Silva is several years older than Rudiger and has come in, on good money, and performed exceptionally, for example.

Personally, I’d like a younger centre half myself, because we don’t have any U25 options at present.
 
We need about 5-6 and we can’t pay transfer fees for all of them. He would be a quality signing and immediately make our first eleven better.

Those who want 5-6 of europes top young players? That’s just not going to happen.

It would be one essential position down ahead of a massive summer.
 
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