Looks like he's got the technique and precision we need more of from what I've seen
Antoine Griezmann
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Totally agree with Griezman but we could do with an all action box to box powerful goal threat (Del Alli) plus a sitting deep playmaker (Kroos) instead of a destroyer.
Disclaimer: I know these guys are unrealistic signings as a 3 but just giving examples of who I'd really like.
Griezmann is clearly a world class player but I just can't warm to this transfer. To get the best out of Griezmann he has to play alongside a No.9 which would be Ibra for us. The knock on effect of this is playing a 442 which Atleti do so well. The difference is they have three fantastic CMs in Saul, Koke and Gabi who make sure they cover the gaps that would usually appear in this system through high intensity pressing and intelligence.
Pogba imo cannot operate in a 2 man midfield for a season. In select games he certainly can but his positioning, risky play and lack of concentration will expose us in midfield no matter who he plays alongside. In signing Griezmann there will be no flexibility in our formation as he and Zlatan will have to start. It could lead to amazing attacking football but it would lead to an imbalance in the team for me.
I would much prefer signing Bernardo Silva and another striker to compete with Ibra. This will bring more goals and creativity while keeping the balance in the team.
Pogba imo cannot operate in a 2 man midfield for a season. In select games he certainly can but his positioning, risky play and lack of concentration will expose us in midfield no matter who he plays alongside. In signing Griezmann there will be no flexibility in our formation as he and Zlatan will have to start. It could lead to amazing attacking football but it would lead to an imbalance in the team for me.
I would much prefer signing Bernardo Silva and another striker to compete with Ibra. This will bring more goals and creativity while keeping the balance in the team.
Griezmann offers amazing flexibility he can virtually play anywhere over the top 4 to a higher standard than any of our current players.
This meaning we can play him in a 442, 4141, 433 or a 4411. Just sign him up he is immense.
I really disagree with this.
His game is very simple, start him in behind a striker and allow him to use his excellent movement to find gaps in dangerous areas and score goals. Once he starts in a wide position, he's much less effective as he now has to dribble more than necessary and be the one to create chances when he should be the one on the end of chances.
I do believe we could play a 442 diamond and maintain a balance but I don't see Mourinho adopting this approach so the question mark would remain in how we use Griezmann in his best position and getting the best out of the team.
Even if we played Griezmann in a 433 we could tuck him inside and advance Valencia a further 10 yards forward. There is so many little tweaks we could do to accommodate Griezmann. Or we could play him central in a 4231 or through the middle in a 433 and that's not brought the diamond into it as you think we could not cope. Sign the guy up he is in the top 5 players in the world and miles better than anything we have.
His off the ball movement is sensational and that is exactly what we lack along with finishing and to me there is nobody out there at this than him (Suarez maybe).
Does it really matter if we just get a striker who scores on the ton of chances we create?
To me it doesn't matter if Pogba is played slightly out of position. As long as it is against mid-table sides, where we are able to outscore them if he fecks up defensively.
Against mid-table clubs, where we need to dominate/open up defences:
To me it doesn't matter if Pogba is played slightly out of position. As long as it is against mid-table sides, where we are able to outscore them if he fecks up defensively.
Against mid-table clubs, where we need to dominate/open up defences:
Valencia - Bailly - Smalling - Shaw
Herrera - Pogba
Mkhi - Griezmann - Martial
Zlatan
Against top-sides, where we need to be more defensive/counter-attacking minded:Herrera - Pogba
Mkhi - Griezmann - Martial
Zlatan
Valencia - Bailly - Smalling - Shaw
Herrera - Carrick - Pogba
Mkhi - Griezmann
Zlatan
This would still be fantastic on the counter attacks with both Griezmann and Mkhi being pretty pacy + Zlatan and Pogba to create key-passes for them / Vice-versaHerrera - Carrick - Pogba
Mkhi - Griezmann
Zlatan
Yep liking that apart from Carrick his legs have gone!
Will be a United player next season. I'm sure of it.
His movement for his goal yesterday was brilliant. He points where he wants the ball played in, it takes a deflection and he reacts to it brilliantly by reacting faster than a center back. Awesome player. And I agree with you about flexibility, I've seen him play all over the final third without any problems. But yeah his best position is a second striker as he's so dangerous there.
Close the thread, Delaney said the deal is off
I was on his twitter timeline since he posted that awful article. It's a mess. People have rightly called him out.
Unbelievably bad article that. What possible complications could he be talking about? Max release clause should kill any chances of a stupid saga of non stop rubbish printed every day.
I'm very excited at the prospect of Griezmann joining and I'd be surprised if it didn't happen. His intelligent movement and ability to find space and link up with others suggests that he will be fine in our team. He also scores goals for fun.
Everyone at Lequipe thinks that as long as United is in CL, the deal is done and dusted.
Sounds about right. I don't imagine he'll have much interest in plying his trade in the Europa League, particularly in a World Cup year.
Can't wait to see him do this at the Kop end.
I am not ashamed to say that I am in love. My favourite player.
Guys, our biggest issue is not buying more strikers as such but where we play Pogba. It's plain and simple and Lampard and Carragher were quick to notice that as well. For 90M Pogba needs to be scoring goals like he did with Juve and his best position is at the top left in a midfield three with an anchor deep lying midfielder. Pogba does not have the discipline to be in a midfield 2. This is just ridiculous. 4-3-3 is the way to go. Even if we do get Griezmann, it makes no sense because we paid 90M and broke the transfer record for someone to just spray passes. This doesn't make any sense. Jose has got to realize this that 4-3-3 is the way to move forward and not 4-2-3-1. We won't need another striker if we have Pogba attacking the goal. If we do get a striker, it is to cover Zlatan. That's about it. You do not buy a Lambhorghini and use it for grocery shopping. That's exactly how Pogba is being utilized. Just because he can play in a midfield 2, does not mean that's the best place to get the best out of him.
Whether it's Griezmann, Dybala, Sanchez etc....we need to add a secondary goal threat, Pogba will never score enough goals to supplement a one striker system.
I was trying to say that we don't need to have a two striker system as such. We need to have a front three that should be dynamic enough to score goals. To get the best out of your most expensive signing, you play him in his best position which is left side of the three man midfield, which is where he will score more goals and he would be more of a threat like what Lampard was at Chelsea. If you want to get Griezmann, Dybala or Sanchez, you play them anywhere in the front three because that would be counter-productive to spending 90M on Pogba to spray passes when you could have just as well gone for someone a lot cheaper, yet effective.
I think Sanchez would be a good buy for us if Griezmann refuses to come. He's quick and PL proven as well and a front three of Sanchez, Mkhitaryan and Martial interchanging places would score a lot more goals than we do right now.
I think we are pretty much on the same page, but I don't see any of the current side replacing Ibra as the #9 in the team, if he goes we'll buy one of those as well.
With Zlatan's arrival, Martial and Rashford's development has stalled. Rashford is being made to play on the wings just because he's quick but his best position is striker as Giggs also mentioned. And Zlatan's influence for us could be similar to Van Persie (one season wonder). We do need to get a striker but it would be to compete with Zlatan. When Zlatan is playing like crap, he's still on the field till the game is over and that just isn't right.
Martial needs to realize he's best wide left, his managers can all see it and the main reason he said he liked playing #9 is that it meant less tracking back. With Rashford I think this season is about evolving his all round game, he's still a kid and the honeymoon period is over. If Ibra stays one more season his ego wont allow him to be a rotation IMO, but I think Jose wants him to stay so he can hold off the striker buy for another year and strengthen other positions first, of course the 3 games that Zlatan is banned for will tell us a lot by way of who Jose chooses to play #9..
That is one way to look at it but another is Rashford will be training and learning from him every day if he is smart enough. Zlatan has had nothing to do with Martials down turn in form so not seeing where you are drawing that conclusion from.
Plus that is the first time I have ever heard RVP being called a one season wonder.
I hope:
Martial - Rashford - Miki
Pogba - Carrick? - Herrera
Griezmann could take two of those three forward spots if he wanted to.
Subject to Griezmann coming here and Ibra eventually moving on, here's 5 quick points which are the result of a lot of observation:
- Griezmann plays best as a 2nd/support striker. Currently he does that with either Gameiro or Torres. Shifting him to the left or right would reduce his goalscoring impact. Same as what happened to Martial and Rashford.
- Mkhi is best as a #10. He's a very good RW indeed, but the freedom he gets from the middle and his ability to link up attack and midfield is invaluable.
- Pogba plays best as a LCM (like at Juve) with a DM behind him and probably a solid left back. He then has the freedom to attack from LCM without his tactical indiscipline being punished by other teams.
- Herrera's a very good passer/circulator of the ball and an excellent chaser/retriever. He can also benefit massively from having a DM which would allow him to do the chasing.
- Neither Martial nor Rashford are a target-man #9, like Ibra. They have pace and dribbling but no hold-up play. They need ball at feet and fast players around them to play quick football. Also neither seems incredibly productive from an inverted-wing role.
------Martial----Griezmann----
-------------Mkhi---------------
------Pogba------Herrera------
---------Carrick/DM------------
--Shaw---CB--CB----Valencia-
In the above, everyone plays in their best position. Pogba has a DM and a defensive left back to cover his attacking forays and with a #10 and 2 strikers ahead of him he has no responsibility to score goals. But as a result of both this freedom and the reduced pressure/onus to score, he will score more.
Herrera is far more defensively aware which means he can help the DM cover for Pogba and free Valencia to roam down the right. Martial, Griezmann and Rashford will all get chances to play upfront in their favourite positions which releases them from solitary winger duty.
Finally if you look at that line-up it has one attribute which fans will love. It's both very technical and extremely fast. All the attacking players (Martial, Rashford, Griezmann, Mkhi and Pogba) can drive counter attacks at insane speed. If they click, they will be an absolute nightmare for defences and a joy to watch.
Footnote: The above is the exact formation Mou played at Porto to win the CL & League double. Derlei & Carlos Alberto were the fast striker ups front with Deco as #10. He also used it at Inter, slightly altered by using Milito as a target-man and Eto'o as a free role striker. The midfield with Cambiasso, Stankovic, Cristiano Zanetti and Sneijder operated in the same way. If any manager knows how to make this work, it's Mourinho.
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I think before we think of Griezmann we have to be able to show we can compete at the top with what we have. We need to break into the top 4 to guarantee Champions League football, as we can't just assume we will win the Europa League. Would Griezmann come if we failed to do this? Its a different scenario to the Ibra signing, a man at the end of his career. we have also had potential 'deals' in the past with these superstars only for them the to be offered a better deal at the club they are at, or at another club they prefer over us. Personally I cant see this deal happening. Hes stated hes happy where he is. He doesnt like the cold weather etc. Its all come down to his brothers tweets as hes the Utd fan (like Schweinsteigers bro, but Schweinsteiger turned us down in 2010) and that Griezmann has said he wants to play with Pogba, and he liked Beckham (I cant see a quote saying he was a Utd fan just liked Beckham). Perhaps he will come in his 30s.
Agreed.
We are not even close to being competitive for the title this year(and haven't been for some time) and continue to struggle to get back into the top 4. If we miss out on CL qualification this season, that will be 3 out of 4 seasons we have missed out, which becomes a more regular occurrence than a one off.
Couple of big months ahead.
I agree. I thought if we win against Bournemouth and Liverpool turn over Arsenal it would of been the perfect results. We would of been 5th and a point behind Liverpool with a game in hand. Instead we were woeful against 10 men. Even though we are on the longest unbeaten run out of all the Premier teams, we still cant manage better than 6th. We must have the dearest squad out as well. Mourinho will get it right eventually i'm sure, but it might be another season outside the Champions League i'm afraid.
Agree with all that really but I think in a league like the PL where so much emphasis is placed on compact defences and wing play a diamond will leave us too narrow on the attack and very, very exposed on the counter.
If he doesn't sign this summer I wouldn't go back in for him. It should be prestigious to play for United, it just seems like begging if we badger him every year to change his mind.
As long as we get our actual signing right then he shouldn't be a big loss. Not with Mkhi playing so well in his position.
As long as we get our actual signing right then he shouldn't be a big loss. Not with Mkhi playing so well in his position.
I thought Atletico moving into their new stadium next season was still in the balance, with the amount of outstanding work and certification to be carried out?
Not if you know how to play the diamond. The #10 is a free role that can move to any wing to create space and help develop the play. The 2 strikers, in the absence of inverted wingers, can always shift to the wings to create space as well. For example in the formation above, if the team is advancing the ball down the left, Martial can pull to the wing to drag a defender away and receive the ball while Griezmann occupies the central space. And vice versa.
If the strikers know how to move, the attack is not narrow at all. Look at how much space Griezmann and Gameiro create at Atleti with their movement and they have no wingers. It's in fact a more dynamic/fluid and less rigid system. Currently, Martial can't drift to the right for example, he is pigeon-holed to the left. Ibra has to be centrally, otherwise there is no one there and if he moves to the wing he's too slow to be a threat from there. You get the idea.
Moving on, I'm not sure how it will be a problem defensively. Valencia already provides all the width down the right (because Mata comes inside) with only Herrera to cover for him when he bombs forward. I don't see how having another deep DM in there will make it more exposed instead of less so. In our current system it's the LW/RW responsibility to mark the fullbacks, in the 4-4-2 diamond it's the MC's & CB's responsibility, with the DM slotting in either position when one player gets pulled out of space. The positional awareness of the DM is key in that system.
Like every system, it's all about training the players so they know all the transitions and all areas of responsibility. If you watch teams (of the past or present) that play 4-4-2 diamond, they do not lack width at all.
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