Antoine Griezmann

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MadMike said:
If you mean he will replace Ibra as our talisman, instead of taking his position, then you have to specify it as it's something different. Because replacing, immediately leads to thoughts of one player being played instead of the other.

Also, you didn't exactly specify how because you vaguely said something about Griezmann freeing Martial and Rashford to play up front (in the 18/19 season) which implies a change of formation since there is no one else to play on the left then. But you didn't explain how the formation would change so that Martial/Rashford move up front with Griezmann.

Finally, regarding a like-for-like player replacement for Ibra, I have a sneaky suspicion that Jose might make a move for Lukaku in the future. He loves his target men and Lukaku's experience and goals in the PL speak for themselves. He might not be as skilled as Ibra or Griezmann, but you can't argue against his productivity up front. He has been very consistent too, with mediocre teams behind him.
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Poor choice of words. I didn't mean to imply a change in formation. I meant that Zlatan leaving would free up Martial or Rashford to move upfront as his actual replacement (with the other remaining on the left). I think Griezmann's position would be on the right or #10 in the same formation we play now.

My point was that we would need a player of Griezmann's quality to make sure the squad doesn't go backwards when we lose Zlatan (or as a talisman as you rightly put it).

I'm increasingly becoming impressed with Lukaku as well. Given the choice, Id still go for Griezmann because I think Martial is better developed than Lukaku was at that age and has a lot more potential. But I agree that Lukaku would also do very well for us.
 
I absolutely can't see him playing at #9 for us under Mou..

However we recently been playing with 4-2-3-1 so #10 could be an option. But Mkhi has been very good there.

We won't be signing anyone purely for 'galactico' reasons, I'm sure Mourinho won't stand for it here (burned too many times already). So he must have a plan for him, if our interest is real.
 
If signed, he'll play the Mata role. Defend from the right, buzz around the striker offensively.

My impression is that Jose wants Mkhitaryan as the long term number 10. He has improved his defensive discipline significantly and a central 3 of Herrera-Pogba-Mkhitaryan would be strong enough defensively in big games in a way that the same midfield with Mata or Griezmann in the number 10 role would not.
 
POF said:
If signed, he'll play the Mata role. Defend from the right, buzz around the striker offensively.

My impression is that Jose wants Mkhitaryan as the long term number 10. He has improved his defensive discipline significantly and a central 3 of Herrera-Pogba-Mkhitaryan would be strong enough defensively in big games in a way that the same midfield with Mata or Griezmann in the number 10 role would not.
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Miki always had great defensive qualities. Bad 45 minutes against City does not count.
 
Just had a dream about him scoring in our first preseason game. This is done lads.
 
POF said:
My impression is that Jose wants Mkhitaryan as the long term number 10. He has improved his defensive discipline significantly and a central 3 of Herrera-Pogba-Mkhitaryan would be strong enough defensively in big games in a way that the same midfield with Mata or Griezmann in the number 10 role would not.
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I don't think that Herrera is the right third man in that midfield. Herrera is a box to box midfielder, he's not disciplined enough to play as DM. This is why I believe Mourinho will go for Bakayoko in the summer.

If a midfield trio of Xabi Alonso, Modric and Di Maria can work; I don't see why Pogba and Mkhitaryan with a quality DM cannot work.

Xabi Alonso was good but not great defensively, his main asset was his mesmerizing passing range.
Modric is better than Pogba defensively but I believe that Jose is training Pogba to improve in that aspect.
Mkhitaryan is a tougher and more tenacious version of Di Maria.

If Jose can get a DM-Pogba-Micky midfield trio to work, then this would make room for Griezmann in a front three with Martial and Zlatan (most likely).
 
Infordin said:
I don't think that Herrera is the right third man in that midfield. Herrera is a box to box midfielder, he's not disciplined enough to play as DM. This is why I believe Mourinho will go for Bakayoko in the summer.

If a midfield trio of Xabi Alonso, Modric and Di Maria can work; I don't see why Pogba and Mkhitaryan with a quality DM cannot work.

Xabi Alonso was good but not great defensively, his main asset was his mesmerizing passing range.
Modric is better than Pogba defensively but I believe that Jose is training Pogba to improve in that aspect.
Mkhitaryan is a tougher and more tenacious version of Di Maria.

If Jose can get a DM-Pogba-Micky midfield trio to work, then this would make room for Griezmann in a front three with Martial and Zlatan (most likely).
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Herrera isn't a natural defensive midfield player and maybe he's not the long-term solution there but discipline is certainly not the reason he won't succeed. He is a very intelligent player who can follow instructions in multiple roles expertly. He has adapted to the deeper role far better than I expected.

I haven't seen enough of Bakayoko to know if he would be an upgrade. United will definitely sign a midfield player in the summer and I'd expect a versatile all rounder who can play in a 2 with either of Herrera or Pogba and in a 3 with both of them. In the 3, I wouldn't be surprised if the plan is for the new signing to play on the right with Herrera deepest.
 
Infordin said:
I don't think that Herrera is the right third man in that midfield. Herrera is a box to box midfielder, he's not disciplined enough to play as DM. This is why I believe Mourinho will go for Bakayoko in the summer.

If a midfield trio of Xabi Alonso, Modric and Di Maria can work; I don't see why Pogba and Mkhitaryan with a quality DM cannot work.

Xabi Alonso was good but not great defensively, his main asset was his mesmerizing passing range.
Modric is better than Pogba defensively but I believe that Jose is training Pogba to improve in that aspect.
Mkhitaryan is a tougher and more tenacious version of Di Maria.

If Jose can get a DM-Pogba-Micky midfield trio to work, then this would make room for Griezmann in a front three with Martial and Zlatan (most likely).
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I agree with this, it makes so much sense and gives plenty of cover defensively and our attacking threat would be immense.

It all sounds wonderful, I really hope it comes true :drool:
 
Infordin said:
This is why I believe Mourinho will go for Bakayoko in the summer.
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Is he actually a DM?

If a midfield trio of Xabi Alonso, Modric and Di Maria can work; I don't see why Pogba and Mkhitaryan with a quality DM cannot work.
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I can. No Ancelotti. No BBC scoring 97 goals between the three of them

Xabi Alonso was good but not great defensively, his main asset was his mesmerizing passing range.
Modric is better than Pogba defensively but I believe that Jose is training Pogba to improve in that aspect.
Mkhitaryan is a tougher and more tenacious version of Di Maria.
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Xabi was fantastic defensively and no way is Mkhi tougher and more tenacious than that version of Di Maria. Who was also faster and could cover far more ground

But anyways, yes, Mou is probably going in that direction, though not the way you mentioned. I'd still expect him to drop either one of mhki or martial for carrick/herrera in big games
 
M Bison said:
I agree with this, it makes so much sense and gives plenty of cover defensively and our attacking threat would be immense.

It all sounds wonderful, I really hope it comes true :drool:
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Does it, though? Could be wrong (@JPRouve is the resident Monaco expert so he could refute this), but from repeated viewing, Bakayoko comes across as a box-to-box midfielder who's good at dribbling and a bit reminiscent of Kondogbia when he was at Monaco with some lapses in concentration defensively. In their team, Fabinho seems to be more of the holding or destroyer midfielder who's more disciplined and aware - more often that not, so it would be kind of counter-intuitive to sign Bakayoko as a destroyer or anchor behind Pogba and Mkhitaryan.

There's a tendency to conflate box-to-box defensive midfielders like Kanté with holders who can sit back as tactical pieces without losing track of their primary assignments (the kind of thinking that fetched us Schneiderlin - someone who was more adept at box-to-box movement), and what you'd ideally want is a player who can sit back and soak the pressure, apart from plugging the gaps Pogba will leave once he starts dribbling - he'd basically be covering multiple fronts (which requires refined positional awareness) in this type of 4231/433 hybrid setup where Mkhitaryan floats and Griezmann goes central:



That role seems to be more suited to the likes of Danilo at Porto, Casemiro, Bakayoko's midfielder partner Fabinho, or Weigl - if you offer a king's ransom.
 
Kondogbia is a good shout but even he, was better defensively during his second season. Bakayoko is good at chasing the ball but you can't count on him when it comes to sit and cover, at least not at the moment.
 
Invictus said:
Does it, though? Could be wrong (@JPRouve is the resident Monaco expert so he could refute this), but from repeated viewing, Bakayoko comes across as a box-to-box midfielder who's good at dribbling and a bit reminiscent of Kondogbia when he was at Monaco with some lapses in concentration defensively. In their team, Fabinho seems to be more of the holding or destroyer midfielder who's more disciplined and aware - more often that not, so it would be kind of counter-intuitive to sign Bakayoko as a destroyer or anchor behind Pogba and Mkhitaryan.

There's a tendency to conflate box-to-box defensive midfielders like Kanté with holders who can sit back as tactical pieces without losing track of their primary assignments (the kind of thinking that fetched us Schneiderlin - someone who was more adept at box-to-box movement), and what you'd ideally want is a player who can sit back and soak the pressure, apart from plugging the gaps Pogba will leave once he starts dribbling - he'd basically be covering multiple fronts (which requires refined positional awareness) in this type of 4231/433 hybrid setup where Mkhitaryan floats and Griezmann goes central:



That role seems to be more suited to the likes of Danilo at Porto, Casemiro, Bakayoko's midfielder partner Fabinho, or Weigl - if you offer a king's ransom.
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I'm not saying Bakayoko is the best fit for what is needed to fill the DM role, I was more commenting on the principle of the front 4 and how it would hang together.

Ultimately, Herrera is a decent option, I believe we need an upgrade but it's manageable.

My point is that signing Griezmann would add a completely new dimension and level of quality which would be amazing to see.
 
M Bison said:
I'm not saying Bakayoko is the best fit for what is needed to fill the DM role, I was more commenting on the principle of the front 4 and how it would hang together.

Ultimately, Herrera is a decent option, I believe we need an upgrade but it's manageable.

My point is that signing Griezmann would add a completely new dimension and level of quality which would be amazing to see.
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Ah, fair enough mate, perhaps I should've quoted Infordin.

And yep, agree with the point about Griezmann adding something extra to the team (provided he and Pogba are perfectly harmonized in the roles that bring out the best in them - will be tricky because it's something Deschamps hasn't been able to do with France yet).
 
Apart from Griezmann being a phenomenal player, I think we need to get players in who are world class but who love the club and Griezmann seems to be one of those. Herrera loves United and you can tell by his body language. Griezmann has been a United and a Beckham fan since his childhood and he would bring that passion to win for United along with his repertoire of skills and winning mentality which is Manchester United.
 
Invictus said:
Does it, though? Could be wrong (@JPRouve is the resident Monaco expert so he could refute this), but from repeated viewing, Bakayoko comes across as a box-to-box midfielder who's good at dribbling and a bit reminiscent of Kondogbia when he was at Monaco with some lapses in concentration defensively. In their team, Fabinho seems to be more of the holding or destroyer midfielder who's more disciplined and aware - more often that not, so it would be kind of counter-intuitive to sign Bakayoko as a destroyer or anchor behind Pogba and Mkhitaryan.

There's a tendency to conflate box-to-box defensive midfielders like Kanté with holders who can sit back as tactical pieces without losing track of their primary assignments (the kind of thinking that fetched us Schneiderlin - someone who was more adept at box-to-box movement), and what you'd ideally want is a player who can sit back and soak the pressure, apart from plugging the gaps Pogba will leave once he starts dribbling - he'd basically be covering multiple fronts (which requires refined positional awareness) in this type of 4231/433 hybrid setup where Mkhitaryan floats and Griezmann goes central:



That role seems to be more suited to the likes of Danilo at Porto, Casemiro, Bakayoko's midfielder partner Fabinho, or Weigl - if you offer a king's ransom.
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Fabinho is the holding player for Monaco and would suit us if we play with either a 2-man or 3-man midfield. We should sign Fabinho just for the fact that he can cover RB also. Valencia will be our starting RB next season but he is already 31. He might get injured more or might not be able to start all games. In such a situation, it would be nice to have someone of decent quality as cover. I would love for us to get Semedo but with his 35m valuation and interest from other clubs too, there is no certainty that we might sign him.

Also, I like that you have Greizmann on the right wing rather than the No.10 spot. We have to keep playing Mkhi as our No.10 because he is more of a playmaker than Greizmann. He brilliantly links up the defense and attack which was so visibly missing against Southampton. He can also thread throughballs, play one-twos, drive with the ball and overall a better creative No.10 than Greizmann. Greizmann at No.10 would be like playing with 2 strikers. He will play as a secondary striker so the link between our midfield and attack will be cut. But playing him on the wing like Mata will allow him to make runs into the box and also stay closer to Zlatan. Obviously, they will both be interchanging positions a lot throughout the game, but this is where they should start out.
 
JPRouve said:
Kondogbia is a good shout but even he, was better defensively during his second season. Bakayoko is good at chasing the ball but you can't count on him when it comes to sit and cover, at least not at the moment.
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Kondogbia is not good enough. I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. And yes, I've watched him for Inter. He's not even playing enough for them because he's not good enough. Bakayoko either.

Both highly overrated players imo.
 
MadMike said:
Kondogbia is not good enough. I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. And yes, I've watched him for Inter. He's not even playing enough for them because he's not good enough. Bakayoko either.

Both highly overrated players imo.
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We were talking about roles, no one cares about Kondogbia here.
 
MadMike said:
Who drops out when we switch to 4-3-3, like we do in Europe or tough games?
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It's not really a problem considering how many of those tough games you will have throughout the season and injuries. Any strong squad will have good players put on the bench for some games
 
Even though I was expecting something special, I still didn't expect him to take that shot on.
 
He's basically like a David Villa I think, in terms of style.
 
Rozay said:
He's basically like a David Villa I think, in terms of style.
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Yep. His all round game is even better though, and he is definitely faster.

Villa might have been an even better finisher than Griezmann though.
 
Another great goal today:

 
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It still amazes me that people say we shouldn't try to sign him :wenger:

Look at his goals and then look at our (lack of) finishing ability. Give him them chances v Bournemouth yesterday and we win the game.

If we can get him, it's a no brainer.
 
That's a cracking finish, he's been in excellent form this calendar year. I've seen few posters suggest he is not what we need or worth his €100 million release clause but I think he is worth that money and he would massively improve us. Remains to be seen if we can convince him to come here though.
 
abhayselvan said:
Fabinho is the holding player for Monaco and would suit us if we play with either a 2-man or 3-man midfield. We should sign Fabinho just for the fact that he can cover RB also. Valencia will be our starting RB next season but he is already 31. He might get injured more or might not be able to start all games. In such a situation, it would be nice to have someone of decent quality as cover. I would love for us to get Semedo but with his 35m valuation and interest from other clubs too, there is no certainty that we might sign him.

Also, I like that you have Greizmann on the right wing rather than the No.10 spot. We have to keep playing Mkhi as our No.10 because he is more of a playmaker than Greizmann. He brilliantly links up the defense and attack which was so visibly missing against Southampton. He can also thread throughballs, play one-twos, drive with the ball and overall a better creative No.10 than Greizmann. Greizmann at No.10 would be like playing with 2 strikers. He will play as a secondary striker so the link between our midfield and attack will be cut. But playing him on the wing like Mata will allow him to make runs into the box and also stay closer to Zlatan. Obviously, they will both be interchanging positions a lot throughout the game, but this is where they should start out.
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Yeah I agree with what your saying, Griezmann in Matas role would be a big upgrade with Tony V playing as a winger when attacking. In the first half yesterday if Griezmann had a chance like that 9/10 he is scoring them, honestly think he is one of the best finishers about, we would be stupid not to sign him
 
Invictus said:
Does it, though? Could be wrong (@JPRouve is the resident Monaco expert so he could refute this), but from repeated viewing, Bakayoko comes across as a box-to-box midfielder who's good at dribbling and a bit reminiscent of Kondogbia when he was at Monaco with some lapses in concentration defensively. In their team, Fabinho seems to be more of the holding or destroyer midfielder who's more disciplined and aware - more often that not, so it would be kind of counter-intuitive to sign Bakayoko as a destroyer or anchor behind Pogba and Mkhitaryan.

There's a tendency to conflate box-to-box defensive midfielders like Kanté with holders who can sit back as tactical pieces without losing track of their primary assignments (the kind of thinking that fetched us Schneiderlin - someone who was more adept at box-to-box movement), and what you'd ideally want is a player who can sit back and soak the pressure, apart from plugging the gaps Pogba will leave once he starts dribbling - he'd basically be covering multiple fronts (which requires refined positional awareness) in this type of 4231/433 hybrid setup where Mkhitaryan floats and Griezmann goes central:



That role seems to be more suited to the likes of Danilo at Porto, Casemiro, Bakayoko's midfielder partner Fabinho, or Weigl - if you offer a king's ransom.
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I really like the look of Danilo, he's got a good engine on him and his range of passing is very underrated. Think he'd be a great fit sitting behind Pogba like in your pic.
 
He missed a 1v1 with the goalie 5 mins ago. Do not want
I'm obviously joking you feckers
 
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