Antoine Griezmann
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You don't spunk £80m on a ready made World Class player to then ask them to adapt to a position or strategy they are unfamiliar with. The way I see it, there is no point in signing Griezmann unless he is going to be the long term replacement for Ibrahimovic, or Mourinho plans on switching to a 4-2-3-1 and playing Griezmann in one of the central attacking positions.
Add Bernardo Silva as Mata successor on the right...or in central role behind Griezmann with Mkhi on the right...or just have that front 4 in free flowing setup exchanging positions with Pogba behind them all...It's mouth watering but then we absolutely need a beast of defensive CM to partner Pogba and beast LB as well...That team would be CL contender though.
------------Ibrahimovic
Martial----Mkhitaryan----Griezmann
----------Pogba--New #6
------------Ibrahimovic
Mkhitaryan-----------Griezmann
----------Pogba--Herrera
-------------New #6
That's how I see us switching between the bulk of games and the big games.
Martial----Mkhitaryan----Griezmann
----------Pogba--New #6
------------Ibrahimovic
Mkhitaryan-----------Griezmann
----------Pogba--Herrera
-------------New #6
That's how I see us switching between the bulk of games and the big games.
The two statements I highlighted above are contradictory with each other. Ibra is a #9, a classic target-man striker very capable of playing both alone up top and in a partnership. Griezmann is a #10, he can play the support striker or the free-role attacker but for both of these roles he requires a #9 in the team to get the best out of him.
If you wouldn't spunk £80m on a player and ask them to play a different role, then you wouldn't get a #10 and expect them to play as a #9. Which means Griezmann is not Ibra's replacement.
You don't understand me. Ibra is not the problem. While Mou is manager, there will always be an "Ibra" at United. A classic target man. When Ibra leaves, I fully expect us to sign someone in similar mould to replace him. Or otherwise give Martial/Rashford that responsibility, who are better suited (physically) to the task.
By him being Ibra's replacement, I mean our strategy as a team would change somewhat. The front 3 would be more interchangeable with all 3 given a kind of free role. I don't think Griezmann would need to adapt to play as a #9 in this system, in fact I think he would strive in it. A front 3 of Martial, Mkhi and Griezmann is intelligent enough to switch positions and make runs when necessary.
Griezmann as a number 9? When weve already got ibrahimovic? Griezmanns a number 10 for me. Im still not 100% convinced hes what we need at 10. Im sure hes not what we need at 9.
Hate to admit it but I think he would be an excellent coup for any top team in Europe. He is certainly a top 5, top 7 player right now. I think the only concern regarding him would be lack of physicality and whether he would have the initial struggle in the prem. Having said that, he plays for Simeone so I would expect him to certainly cope with that side of the game.
If anything, I feel like United have signed him a season too late.
Atletico has been in bad form this season and don't look like they are going to win anything, so Griezmann's final season with the club almost feels like a waste. Atletico are perennial bottlers in the CL, too far behind in La Liga, and out of the Copa Del Rey.
On the other hand, if United had Griezmann, they would definitely be at least second and potentially challenging Chelsea for first place. Griezmann would be enormous in the games where United just couldn't finish but otherwise dominated their opponent.
Griezmann would have had an opportunity to win multiple trophies (EL, League Cup, FA Cup) instead of none, while United would likely be in serious contention for the Premier League (or at least not 6th and worrying about top 4 at the end of the season).
But better late then never. When (not even if) Mourinho signs him this summer, United will be a force to be reckoned with in the PL and even the CL.
Atletico has been in bad form this season and don't look like they are going to win anything, so Griezmann's final season with the club almost feels like a waste. Atletico are perennial bottlers in the CL, too far behind in La Liga, and out of the Copa Del Rey.
On the other hand, if United had Griezmann, they would definitely be at least second and potentially challenging Chelsea for first place. Griezmann would be enormous in the games where United just couldn't finish but otherwise dominated their opponent.
Griezmann would have had an opportunity to win multiple trophies (EL, League Cup, FA Cup) instead of none, while United would likely be in serious contention for the Premier League (or at least not 6th and worrying about top 4 at the end of the season).
But better late then never. When (not even if) Mourinho signs him this summer, United will be a force to be reckoned with in the PL and even the CL.
He's not a no 10, you dont watch him if you say that. He is a 9.5 or second striker but can also play as a false 9.
You yourself is getting confused of what a number 10 is. 15/20 year's ago a 10 was Dennis Bergkamp or Cantona. Griezmann is very much a 10 like Rooney was for most of his career. He assists just as well as he scores.
And know a no 10 is like Miki, Mata, Silva, de Bruyne, Ozil (when he wasnt shit) they score and assist too but they are better playmakers than Griezmann, which is logical as he is a forward and not really a midfielder.
Yes they are a type of modern 10 more favoured, but saying a 2nd striker isn't a 10 is silly. Griezmann doesn't sit up front he wonders around getting involved in the build up but also runs behind too.
He's obviously a very good player, I wouldn't dispute that fact or say no to his transfer, I still wonder how he'll fit into the team, certainly Micky and co will be pushed out wide indefinitely.
I still feel our biggest issue right now is we lack consistent production from our wings more so than anything, which I don't think he's the answer to.
I still feel our biggest issue right now is we lack consistent production from our wings more so than anything, which I don't think he's the answer to.
He is a far better player than Mkhitaryan though, so no harm on him getting pushed on the right wing.
The main question is can Pogba play in midfield two in a high standard. If not then Pogba needs to play in left wing similar to Koke for Atletico.
Yea thats the other issue, is if Pogba is capeable of taking on a more dominant midfield role in a 2, certainly against some of the tougher, away matches currently... you'd have reservations of. If Mourinho is able to get in a top quality defensive minded partner to cover him, you could see it working perhaps?
I just wouldn't like to be in a situation where we buy Griezman, push Pogba into a 2, it doesn't work annnnnd.. then we'd be debating every 5minutes swtiching formation to a 433 or similar to better accommodate Pogba.
I could see Mourinho going with a front 3 from Griezmann, Zlatan, Micky and Martial. One of those would of course be rotated.
Actually its only this season that he's racked up a lot of assists, the season before 9 and the seasons before 3/2. His finishing is his biggest strength, I dont think Griezmann as your playmaker is optimal, he's a much better finisher than playmaker but still a smart player with good passing to do a job there. He has played more often as a striker than a 10, just see France at the Euro's.
If he wants to come here surely we won't have to put him on Rooney, Basti, Zlatan & Pogba wages? Although 200k is probably the going rate for top players.
Guarantee he'd be on way more than 200k if we get him.
He will be on over 200k. Although Rooney and Basti will be gone, which will free up circa 500k and Zlatan will probably leave the following season freeing up another 250k.
You don't buy a player for £89m odd and get away with not paying him top whack. He'll get roughly the same deal as Pogba and Rooney, you'd assume.
I think we will add a strong unit at the back who will cover plenty of inches of pitch. Pogba will take the deep lying playmaker role.
Upfront mata, Mkhitaryan, Rashford and Martial will compete for the flanks role. Griezmann will play as no 10 behind ibra anf probably a young version of him (Dolberg?)
Upfront mata, Mkhitaryan, Rashford and Martial will compete for the flanks role. Griezmann will play as no 10 behind ibra anf probably a young version of him (Dolberg?)
Those turning their nose up at this signing are being short sighted. We need to sign someone now to prepare for when Zlatan leaves. I cant see him staying past next season. Our team with Griezmann in it just seems right to me. I think he'd slot right in.
(If only Dortmund would sell us Ousmane Dembele. Id prefer him to Griezmann. But theres no chance in hell)
(If only Dortmund would sell us Ousmane Dembele. Id prefer him to Griezmann. But theres no chance in hell)
I don't think many, if any are turning their nose up, rather it's a question of how he would (potentially) fit into the current line up or would we need to shift others around drastically to accomodate him.
I see Griezmann either coming in to play the Mata role as a RW or behind the striker.
Dolberg seems like an interesting player, but how do you feel about it affecting Rashford though? When Ibra was signed Mourinho was saying it's a gift to Rashford, and that he can learn from him etc. Rashfords game time has mainly been as a winger, because for whatever reason Mourinho won't rest Ibra. If we sign another direct young promising player, to share game time with Ibra next season, how does that fair for Rashfords long term position? I personally do not like him as a winger unless he comes on late in the game and uses his pace and directness. I think in the summer of 2018 we will need a striker of some form for when Ibra calls it a day with us, but it all depends on what Mourinho wants as his long term striker.
I am a big fan of Rashford. However Ibra will be 37 years next year and we need to make sure that we're able to score goals next season. If Rashford can't keep a 19 year old from the Dutch league on the bench then he's nowhere near as good as the hype surrounding him suggest he is
Mata doesn't really play RW tho, he actually plays around the main striker. Defensively his area of responsibility is to protect Valencia and stay right, sure. But when we have the ball you will find him usually around the edge of the box and more often centrally than any wing. Hell, he put a cross for Mkhi's goal from the left side in mid-week. He's as free-role as they come.
But yeah, I see Griezmann taking his place if he comes. There's no way we'll play with Griezmann up top like France did.
That's precisely my point. He won't fit into the current line up next season, and some rotation will be needed. But we definitely need someone in his position the season after that. We need to think long term. It's better to sign Zlatan's replacement and have him bed in throughout the season.
Dembele would be perfect, but Griezmann would be brilliant too
Yeah, that's the role I meant, he's a floater, moving in and around the area, I think Griezmann would do well in that role, especially if Mkhitaryan continues as the free roaming number 10.
He is not Ibra's replacement in any shape or form. Neither is Dembele. Jesus.
Of course he is. He won't play 9, but he can play on the left and right and can do a decent job at 10. This frees up Martial and Rashford to play up front. By the time Zlatan's done Martial's development should have progressed enough for him to lead the line (it's what we signed him for imo). Rashford should be capable to play up front well enough by then too.
I prefer Dembele because he is much more versatile. Plays brilliantly as a 10 and can do a brilliant job on both flanks. But I think the plan is (or at least should be) Martial or Rashford as a direct replacement for Zlatan and Griezmann to play on the flanks and as a 10.
Mate, that makes absolutely 0 sense. So according to you he won't play as #9, but we'll still play with a #9 (Martial or Rashford) and he'll be the #10 or support striker, yet somehow he's replacing our current #9. You're contradicting yourself
He's not gonna play left wing for Martial or Rashford to move up top. The possibilities are 2:
- He replaces Mata in the current formation. Someone else replaces Ibra when the times comes
- We switch our formation to play with 2 strikers (like Atleti) of which he'll play as the support striker.
I think youre taking me too literally when I say ‘replacement’. What I mean is that Griezmann is meant to fit into the squad perfectly after Zlatan leaves (in the manner I described in my post). Even though there will be lots of rotation next season with Mata et al., the season after that he would fit perfectly (not to mention he would be properly settled into the club). My post is about what happens in 18/19.Mate, that makes absolutely 0 sense. So according to you he won't play as #9, but we'll still play with a #9 (Martial or Rashford) and he'll be the #10 or support striker, yet somehow he's replacing our current #9. You're contradicting yourself
He's not gonna play left wing for Martial or Rashford to move up top. The possibilities are 2:
In either case you can't say he's Ibra's replacement as someone else is taking that role. Whether it's Martial, Rashford or a new striker. The player that will drop out of our current starting XI for Griezmann will be Mata. Not Ibra.
- He replaces Mata in the current formation. Someone else replaces Ibra when the times comes
- We switch our formation to play with 2 strikers (like Atleti) of which he'll play as the support striker.
I think you're right as to what will end up happening in 17/18, but as I said you have to think long term in order to understand the purpose of this signing.
I don’t see any direct replacements for Zlatan available on the market who are at the level of Griezmann in terms of quality. Aubameyang is Madrid bound, Lewandowski is never joining us. Everyone who is available would cost a similar amount as Griezmann, and not be as good in terms of quality.
Dembele is a future world player of the year in my opinion, which is why I prefer him. But other than that, Griezmann is the best transfer we can make this summer.
In 1.5 season’s time Martial should be close to world class if he develops properly. Rashford would be a starter by then too. They would be very good options up front (potentially better than anyone available for a transfer in that position).
For arguments sake lingard and Rooney should be removed from the first team squad completely ala schweinstiger and there you have your problem solved.
Rashford would still be able to develop without unnecessary pressure so you have Zlatan Mata Mhiki Martial Griezman as regular first teamers rotating and the others as subs and impact players
If you mean he will replace Ibra as our talisman, instead of taking his position, then you have to specify it as it's something different. Because replacing, immediately leads to thoughts of one player being played instead of the other.
Also, you didn't exactly specify how because you vaguely said something about Griezmann freeing Martial and Rashford to play up front (in the 18/19 season) which implies a change of formation since there is no one else to play on the left then. But you didn't explain how the formation would change so that Martial/Rashford move up front with Griezmann.
Finally, regarding a like-for-like player replacement for Ibra, I have a sneaky suspicion that Jose might make a move for Lukaku in the future. He loves his target men and Lukaku's experience and goals in the PL speak for themselves. He might not be as skilled as Ibra or Griezmann, but you can't argue against his productivity up front. He has been very consistent too, with mediocre teams behind him.
----------Zlatan----------
Martial--Griezmann---Henrikh
------Pogba---Herrera------
would love to see something like this at least against easier opposition.
Obviously it depends if Pogba (specially him) and Herrera would be able to run games from midfield without Carrick or a third partner.
ps. a more defensive set up like this could work too? (pack the midfield and play a more counter attacking game)
---------------Zlatan----------------
--------------Griezmann-------------
Young----Pogba-----Herrera-----Mata
summer come to me!!
Martial--Griezmann---Henrikh
------Pogba---Herrera------
would love to see something like this at least against easier opposition.
Obviously it depends if Pogba (specially him) and Herrera would be able to run games from midfield without Carrick or a third partner.
ps. a more defensive set up like this could work too? (pack the midfield and play a more counter attacking game)
---------------Zlatan----------------
--------------Griezmann-------------
Young----Pogba-----Herrera-----Mata
summer come to me!!
Will this thread top the Pogba thread from last summer? surely not. With his buyout clause we surely just pay the money early and be done with it
I don't think so. This deal seems very obvious while Pogba I never thought he would come back to United
I always thought Jose's plan was playing 4231 from the beginning. However, since Rooney wasn't good enough, thus we switched it to 4141 or 433. If the rumour is true that we are going to sign Griezmann then I believe we will build a team around Griezmann as a no 10 or 9.5 and play 4231.
As for Pogba, I have no problem to see him play in deeper role. He has the attributes to play there but just hasn't been disciplined enough. However, I believe this can change a lot of people's mind, especially looking at his last 3 or 4 matches he's been very disciplined.
Griezmann as our attacking midfielder or behind striker is more convincing than Pogba plays in that role in my opinion. Even if Griezmann might end up play on the wing against bigger club, I don't see it as problem as he's been familiar with that role as well before.
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