I agree, but we can’t rely on Cavani for every match. We should now realise we need a proper no9 and move Martial to the left.
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I agree, but we can’t rely on Cavani for every match. We should now realise we need a proper no9 and move Martial to the left.
I'm sure the usual suspects are emptying the contents of their arse on Martial and diving up Cavani's. I hope Ole keeps faith with Martial as there's no long term future with Cavani, and I doubt Cavani can play 3 games a week. Personally I'd be happy to see Martial LW and Cavani at #9 in some games, my biggest concern is Rashford is Teflon and if we don't play 4-2-3-1 Martial will be sacrificed.
Rashford certainly shouldn’t be Teflon on current form and good as he is, Cavani won’t be able to play every game. I do think it will be good for Martial and Rashford to compete over that LW. Might kick both of them into gear.
Nothing against Martial. Good player to have around. Just will never be the main striker that will lead us to a league title. For long term future we should go all out for Haaland. If Martial has future here it should be on the left.
Martial's a good player and he's done an excellent job playing as a centre forward. The fact that Cavani is a much more natural poacher doesn't change that.
Woah woah woah.
“race card wanker”. . . “grow up and join in proper adult debate”.
Bit of a juxtaposed there lad, must have touched a nerve.
Let’s replay the post. I say Martial is p*ssing me off with his performances; I also say race rather obviously plays a part in coverage; I then caveated my post for the dim such as yourself who take up offence at the rather undisputable fact that society has it biases & this forum is made up by members of society so to some degree they’ll be people who criticise our players with these biases influencing their analysis/critiques.
So a few questions really. . . What is ‘a race card’? How do I go about purchasing one?And lastly, why are you so mad?
No one has been called ‘a racist’, no one has called all their coverage racist; infact due to the rather touchy subject matter the 2 posts that have you so upset clarify this so I’m a little confused by the overreaction to an opinion.
Now we can either do this dance where you continue to exhibit your mental fragility & insecurities around identity or you can trot back off to twitter to complain about the Sainsbury’s advert.
Regards,
Race Cafe
It’s these kind of defensive posts which make it difficult to ever have a nuanced conversation about such matters. Maybe read what the guy said before going off on a massive rant
People need to chill out on the Martial hate.
Its obvious that we cant rely on him as our only number 9 striker because he doesnt make the forward runs, however what a striker like Cavani does is stop teams just camping and playing a low block heavily inviting crosses in to themselves all the time either like we saw today.
Martial is the complete opposite of Cavani.
When Cavani doesnt work - Martial is tactically and practically going to be a player that makes sense on the pitch to bring on and glue up the counter play with open spaces for Rashford and Greenwood.
We need a good squad. And there is no point in keeping Cavani, Haaland and Zlatan Ibrahimovic whilst chucking Martial away because Martial is the one who does something different to them and from deeper positions; even if he is looking less and less likely the guy to start every match.
It's like the people who want to chuck Wan Bissaka out for the next Cafu? Why? Just keep a very good solid defensive fullback that we have and get a very good attacking one - we dont need two of the same do we? Isnt that a very flexible squad?
Its obvious that we cant rely on him as our only number 9 striker because he doesnt make the forward runs, however what a striker like Cavani does is stop teams just camping and playing a low block heavily inviting crosses in to themselves all the time either like we saw today.
Martial is the complete opposite of Cavani.
When Cavani doesnt work - Martial is tactically and practically going to be a player that makes sense on the pitch to bring on and glue up the counter play with open spaces for Rashford and Greenwood.
We need a good squad. And there is no point in keeping Cavani, Haaland and Zlatan Ibrahimovic whilst chucking Martial away because Martial is the one who does something different to them and from deeper positions; even if he is looking less and less likely the guy to start every match.
It's like the people who want to chuck Wan Bissaka out for the next Cafu? Why? Just keep a very good solid defensive fullback that we have and get a very good attacking one - we dont need two of the same do we? Isnt that a very flexible squad?
There is literally nothing similar in their situation though? Martial has proven he loves being here, has a strong mentality and is coming off the back of a player of the season performance last year. Yes he's started this season poorly but why on earth are you jumping in and putting him alongside Pogba on players we have to remove?
I'm asking you why you have put their names together if there isn't a serious agenda or undertone to it?
See the sh*t you’ve got me into @TrustInJanuzaj 
Irony
3 pages since kick off and the man was nowhere near the stadium . Is he going to be the new Pogba ?
Wish both Martial and Rashford would just be accepted for what they are. Both good players that blow hot and cold. Neither are world class and never will be.
Cavani has been World class and maybe he still is. Its too early to tell. But the only other forward at the club who has the potential to be world class is Greenwood. Martial n Rashford are just good players and there's nothing wrong with that. You can't have a squad of 25 world class players. Nobody does.
Cavani has been World class and maybe he still is. Its too early to tell. But the only other forward at the club who has the potential to be world class is Greenwood. Martial n Rashford are just good players and there's nothing wrong with that. You can't have a squad of 25 world class players. Nobody does.
There is a serious agenda, as far as I am concerned, but it's about heart, not skin colour. I put Martial in the same box as Pogba in so far as neither of them demonstrate that they will run for the team until they drop. Their hunger to win whether it be a tackle, a 50 50 ball or a match just doesn't show itself enough for me. Sometimes I feel Rashford is edging towards a similar place.
I've been a big supporter of Fred since he joined because he puts in a heavy shift in each game. It's clear to me that he's busting a gut for MUFC. Ditto Bruno. Ditto VDB now. And James. McTominay too.
These selfless workers are the type of player I want in the squad. Not prima donnas who seem to be off their game just at the same time as some new faces are taking the praise they formerly enjoyed.
I don't say we should remove them but I do say we should be willing to replace them if a better option becomes available. There's a difference. I happen to have the same view about the manager, fww.
Martial and Pogba expected to deliver on regular basis but 5 years on and still they are not consistent... every one aware of this hence when other players do well people cant help to bring up comparisons.
I believe they both come across selfish which will hamper team's unity too. Only in this regard I support Jose as he pin pointed the issue which was down to Martial/Pogba political stuff in the backend
I believe they both come across selfish which will hamper team's unity too. Only in this regard I support Jose as he pin pointed the issue which was down to Martial/Pogba political stuff in the backend
I wouldn't mind seeing Rashford on the right and Martial on the left with Cavani as the #9 like against Istanbul the other night, as I just don't see Ole dropping Rashford at any point.
Rashford is playing off but still putting up the best numbers out of last years front 3.
However, now that Greenwoods back Ole has to think about giving the guy a break when he can especially when Martial is on the left and Greenwood can play on the right.
What in the hell happened in this thread...?
Anywho, Martial stock has to take a bit of a battering after that Cavani performance. It was like a shining light moment "oh a powerful striker that moves in between the lines and then gets on the end of chances! Right I remember how this used to work!"
Anywho, Martial stock has to take a bit of a battering after that Cavani performance. It was like a shining light moment "oh a powerful striker that moves in between the lines and then gets on the end of chances! Right I remember how this used to work!"
Christ. The conspiracy theories are out now. This thread is a car crash.
Yes I think this would be our best lineup.
I also think another CF should be added to the shopping list. While it’s not perfect I think our defence and midfield can look after itself for a while. Cavani, even at 33 has shown what we’ve been missing from our attack.
I don't see much of an issue with Martial. More dangerous on the left than Rashford (less predictable), he didn't get a chance to have a regular playing time this season. He's wasting many chances, just like Rashford and Greenwood. His lack of effort is not much of an issue considering the hard - working team we have now. Hopefully he will play on Wednesday because Rashford needs a rest, maybe even deserves being dropped.
It is an issue. Cavani has shown how much better our attacks look with a striker that puts in a lot of effort. Different class.
I agree that he should start on the left ahead of Rashford in the best match though. We’ve got to re-ignite tenge fire under both of them.
If Rashford deserves to be dropped, Martial deserves to be out of the matchday squad. You people are delusional. Tony has been abysmal for both club and country, let's stop with this ridiculous fanboying, please.
People have short memories. Can remember vividly a year back, when everyone was convinced Martial is better through the middle, and wasted on the left.
IMO Martial is a false 9 like Griezmann or Firmino, he's not your traditional no 9 like Cavani, Giroud or Lewandowski. I think in our 4-2-3-1 setup it helps to have a traditional no 9 on top, to help deal with the press and and as a target man to help unlock low defences. Rashford isn't a traditional 9 either, nor is Greenwood(right now). I think we are better off playing Martial, Rashford and Greenwood as inside forwards for now.
His workrate hasn't been an issue since last season, that's well documented. I think he will soon replace Rashford on the left, if Rashford doesn't pick up his form. Its a good problem to have imo. Ole this July said this :
"I've been very pleased with Anthony. You can see his work rate, his foundation," Solskjaer told Sky Sports.
"There were some stats last season on our strikers, and he's really taken up the challenge and answered the questions I asked of work rate.
"We have to start from the front with our pressing, and he's really taken that on board.
IMO Martial is a false 9 like Griezmann or Firmino, he's not your traditional no 9 like Cavani, Giroud or Lewandowski. I think in our 4-2-3-1 setup it helps to have a traditional no 9 on top, to help deal with the press and and as a target man to help unlock low defences. Rashford isn't a traditional 9 either, nor is Greenwood(right now). I think we are better off playing Martial, Rashford and Greenwood as inside forwards for now.
His workrate hasn't been an issue since last season, that's well documented. I think he will soon replace Rashford on the left, if Rashford doesn't pick up his form. Its a good problem to have imo. Ole this July said this :
"I've been very pleased with Anthony. You can see his work rate, his foundation," Solskjaer told Sky Sports.
"There were some stats last season on our strikers, and he's really taken up the challenge and answered the questions I asked of work rate.
"We have to start from the front with our pressing, and he's really taken that on board.
Fanboying? Don't be ridiculous. I'm not a fan of Rashford and Martial. The first one is limited player who is out of form, the second is very talented but lacks effort and misses easy chances. But if we could give Rashford so much time to play himself into form, might as well give it to Martial now and drop Rashford / move him to the right. We have options, which is good.
You seem like it's a personal issue for you. I don't rate any of them very high, certainly not on the level of Greenwood and Cavani (based on last two games at least).
Stopped reading after this clueless statement.
I don’t think people do have short memories. We’ve been having the same discussion for 5 years. He’s been played in pretty much all forward positions and hi inconsistencies have followed him wherever he plays.
Yes he had a good season last year and I’m sure he’d started to win some people around but you have to kick on at a club like this. You have to be able to contribute regularly.
I want so much to like him, he’s got so much in his arsenal and it’s so frustrating to see whatever it is that stops us seeing it more.
I don't understand why people keep saying that Martial > Rashford and vice versa. For me, both are good squad players but not part of the starting attack that wins you titles. There is absolutely no need to keep going on and on about how one is that much greater than other/is trash etc. I personally think Rashford has dropped off a lot since his back injury. Before that happened, I thought he was starting to become something special. He can still be a good player for us.
As for Martial, I only want to start him up top. Let's fix his position and let him interchange with other attackers during matches. And is it just me, or does Martial always get illness/small niggles/injuries during every season? Hopefully we get him back for the PSG game. Maybe Rashford can come on as a substitute.
As for Martial, I only want to start him up top. Let's fix his position and let him interchange with other attackers during matches. And is it just me, or does Martial always get illness/small niggles/injuries during every season? Hopefully we get him back for the PSG game. Maybe Rashford can come on as a substitute.
Good, saving us both time for pointless discussion with lack of arguments from your side.
Your arguments are incredibly compelling, not doubt. Claiming that a player that has done more harm to the team than good deserves to start over one of our most productive players is totally rational and not silly fanboying.
"Limited player" vs "great talent", proper arguments right there.
I also said they are both poor, and I suggested what to do with them. But you draw my statements out of context and rephrase them to suit your narrative, so I'm done with you on in this thread and lets move on.
Martial as no 9 is basically Firmino but less work rate. The issue here is that not about crossing. In fact Cavani was known as wasting chances but his main assets are movement, determination, the work rate & the goal instinct are just the difference now to Martial which what we don't have ever since RVP left us. Those two goals he scored could only be scored by Martial if he has goal instinct, movement & high determination, which common assets for top class no 9.
Martial is an inside forward-type winger.
He's not a number 9. Most of his goals last season actually came from wandering into the edge of the box from the left or right wing. I can count probably 5-10 goals from inside the central box area last season. Give a proper world class number 9 that position and they'd score 30-35 per season. Martial got 23, which is about his ceiling. It's not a bad return, but if we're Manchester United, we want the best, and the elite. I want 30+ goals from my number 9 if he plays 50 games, otherwise, we'll keep stalling in and around 3rd-6th positions.
He doesn't have the ability to play as a top level number 9. I'm talking Leawandowski, Kane, Haaland, Cavani..... they're proper number 9's. Cavani has strolled into this team and put on a masterclass on number 9 play. Martial won't score the goals Cavani did yesterday, because Martial wants the ball in to feet, not smashed 5-10 yards ahead of him at 100 miles an hour.
Martial is a top player from the wing, though. He in my opinion needs to rotate with Rashford & Greenwood on those wing positions.
He's not a number 9. Most of his goals last season actually came from wandering into the edge of the box from the left or right wing. I can count probably 5-10 goals from inside the central box area last season. Give a proper world class number 9 that position and they'd score 30-35 per season. Martial got 23, which is about his ceiling. It's not a bad return, but if we're Manchester United, we want the best, and the elite. I want 30+ goals from my number 9 if he plays 50 games, otherwise, we'll keep stalling in and around 3rd-6th positions.
He doesn't have the ability to play as a top level number 9. I'm talking Leawandowski, Kane, Haaland, Cavani..... they're proper number 9's. Cavani has strolled into this team and put on a masterclass on number 9 play. Martial won't score the goals Cavani did yesterday, because Martial wants the ball in to feet, not smashed 5-10 yards ahead of him at 100 miles an hour.
Martial is a top player from the wing, though. He in my opinion needs to rotate with Rashford & Greenwood on those wing positions.
This guy gets so much goodwill from fans its unreal.
He plays shite in the middle: 'He's better on the left wing!"
He plays shite on the left (during the Zlatan years): 'He's meant to be a central striker!"
No he is neither. He is a good player who doesn't particularly excel in any position. I would put Rashford in the same category too.
He plays shite in the middle: 'He's better on the left wing!"
He plays shite on the left (during the Zlatan years): 'He's meant to be a central striker!"
No he is neither. He is a good player who doesn't particularly excel in any position. I would put Rashford in the same category too.
Good post!
When Pep came in Barca and moved over Eto, Henry and Ibra out of the central position, for a more unpredictable central forward, they called him crazy. Cavani is a specialist, Martial is not, and whereas Martial has a higher ceiling, he needs to mix it with drive and intent or he will remain mediocre.
The best OGS can do for us is to bench Martial and make him fight for the central position, the player that will fight Cavani and take the #9 spot is what fans are craving for, and that is the Martial we want to see.
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There is, of course, some subconscious delight from many white folks when black rich athletes fail, especially if they are considered boastful or show-offs. The media preys on this and for such reasons, they will portray players like Sterling the way they do. Similarly, the same thing happened with Mason -- whereas both Mason and Foden made the same mistake, Foden who had a pregnant wife was forgiven quickly by the media and the court of public opinion while Mason was kept under severe scrutiny.
It is the same reason why white folks in the media and public react harshly to foreign black athletes who are considered to be one of the world's best. The British media, to great public delight, started attacking Martial as a teenager simply because he was considered to be the world's best teenager at the time joining the world's biggest club.
Many people are in denial here, and this forum has a lot of proof that systemic racism is very alive and kicking.
Martial is never going to be able to lead the line. Can he score goals? Yes he can. Just like Son does for Spurs. Can he score like Cavani? No he won't because that's not his game.
How do we get the best out of him? Rotate him with Rashford, Cavani and Greenwood. Greenwood is also not going to score goals like Cavani did yesterday. I would say our best option is Cavani and Martial up front with Martial dropping deep with a four man midfield. Martial is better than Rashford in dribbling and creating space while Rashford will run non stop and has a much better long range shot.
It's a team game and not the starting eleven that's important. Everyone has a job in the team and it doesn't necessarily mean scoring all the goals. Even if you tire out the opposition defense that's a job well done.
How do we get the best out of him? Rotate him with Rashford, Cavani and Greenwood. Greenwood is also not going to score goals like Cavani did yesterday. I would say our best option is Cavani and Martial up front with Martial dropping deep with a four man midfield. Martial is better than Rashford in dribbling and creating space while Rashford will run non stop and has a much better long range shot.
It's a team game and not the starting eleven that's important. Everyone has a job in the team and it doesn't necessarily mean scoring all the goals. Even if you tire out the opposition defense that's a job well done.
If the likes of Fletcher, Gary Neville, Phill Neville, Nicky Butt, Oshea; who without much ability could be at Manchester without being chastised for playing or not playing, then surely Pogba, Martial and Rashford deserve better treatment from our fans.
How is he a specialist? Cavani is absolutely a good example of what a modern forward is about and someone Martial can learn from. He is extremely versatile, can play anywhere across the front three and scores a whole variety of goals, freekicks, long range belters, chipped shots, poaching in the box you name it. Throughout his career he has proven himself to be adept in any tactical set-up and ability to form synergies with his fellow attackers.
Martial has been here for 5 years and we are still struggling with his best position. His technical ability is never the question but his application on the pitch and tactical acumen are seriously lacking. Its almost like he barely developed since he came here.
I can't recall ever watching any of the former players you've listed and thinking that they weren't trying their best and giving 100% for the team and fans.
With Martial and Pogba particularly and occasionally Rashford, I regularly think they're selling us short in terms of effort and commitment.
It boils down to former substance over style to today's style over substance.
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