[littleman]

How is he a specialist? Cavani is absolutely a good example of what a modern forward is about and someone Martial can learn from. He is extremely versatile, can play anywhere across the front three and scores a whole variety of goals, freekicks, long range belters, chipped shots, poaching in the box you name it. Throughout his career he has proven himself to be adept in any tactical set-up and ability to form synergies with his fellow attackers.

Cavani started games at PSG when Zlatan started games leading the line.

A specialist he is not.

Absolute dross from the Martial team trying to spin the narrative.

There’s a place for Martial on the team, but it may not be the 9 role and it may be on the bench.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

His level of consistency wouldn’t look out of place at a club like Lyon.

 

[amsoUG]

How is he a specialist? Cavani is absolutely a good example of what a modern forward is about and someone Martial can learn from. He is extremely versatile, can play anywhere across the front three and scores a whole variety of goals, freekicks, long range belters, chipped shots, poaching in the box you name it. Throughout his career he has proven himself to be adept in any tactical set-up and ability to form synergies with his fellow attackers.

Martial has been here for 5 years and we are still struggling with his best position. His technical ability is never the question but his application on the pitch and tactical acumen are seriously lacking. Its almost like he barely developed since he came here.

Yet you all seem to forget that Cavani was considered inept at PSG and therefore moved on. At this rate, PSG should have taken a Martial swap and boy would they have considered us fools if we ever fell for it.

 

[amsoUG]

His level of consistency wouldn’t look out of place at a club like Lyon.

Cavani would not have a place in the Lyon team just to give you perspective, but Martial would play in the same PSG team that Cavani failed.

 

[amsoUG]

Here is a snippet from Xavi's interview since there are so many skewed views here:

‘If I go to Liverpool’s ground and someone puts the ball into the area and Carragher hammers it out of play then the fans applaud. In the Nou Camp you would never be applauded for that.
‘It’s a different culture that values different things. Here if they see you are afraid when you are in possession then you get whistled. It’s the world in reverse.
‘I do see it changing slightly. Before, the typical No 9 in England was a Crouch or a Heskey and it was a long ball from the back from a Terry or a Carragher and nothing in between.’

Full article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ew-Paul-Scholes-best-midfielder-20-years.html

 

[yamo123x]

Too inconsistent for me.

On his day unplayable but these days are rare and with cavani taking his centre forward position he will end up sulking out wide

 

[thepolice123]

Yet you all seem to forget that Cavani was considered inept at PSG and therefore moved on. At this rate, PSG should have taken a Martial swap and boy would they have considered us fools if we ever fell for it.

The point of contention was his playing style. You said he is a specialist player, my answer to you is that he is not.

Cavani being surplus to requirements at PSG got nothing to do with this discussion. He was injured for 2 seasons and 33 years old. Before that he scored 40 goals in a season while playing with Mbappe and Neymar. He is also their current all-time top-scorer.

 

[Real Name]

Why all this criticism suddenly?

Or it has been going on for a while. I just hope it isnt cause Cavani scored 2 goals. It would be a bit daft.

 

[MattofManchester]

someone Martial can learn from.

You mean Martial who has played with the likes of Ibrahimovic, Rooney, Lukaku and now Cavani and still hasn't learned a damn thing?

 

[Lynty]

People are getting carried away.

Cavani isn't taking anyone's position. He missed 38 games over the last two seasons for PSG. We will handle him with care, like Matic. There's enough games coming that both players will have loads of minutes and history shows us that Martial needs his position under threat to perform.

In all honesty, I think Martial's position is safe until Haaland becomes available again. I know a lot of people really don't want to wait that long for a "real number 9" but that fact remains that there is an incredibly small pool of players who could displace him, and we shouldn't be looking at 'maybes', we need a certified goal machine.

 

[thepolice123]

You mean Martial who has played with the likes of Ibrahimovic, Rooney, Lukaku and now Cavani and still hasn't learned a damn thing?

Touché

 

[Volumiza]

You mean Martial who has played with the likes of Ibrahimovic, Rooney, Lukaku and now Cavani and still hasn't learned a damn thing?

Touché

Good to take that one on the chin mate

 

[FrankDrebin]

He should be fine once he get's back into some rhythm.

 

[MadDogg]

This guy gets so much goodwill from fans its unreal.

He plays shite in the middle: 'He's better on the left wing!"

He plays shite on the left (during the Zlatan years): 'He's meant to be a central striker!"

No he is neither. He is a good player who doesn't particularly excel in any position. I would put Rashford in the same category too.

I really don't get the 'goodwill from his fanclub' thing.

Martial has literally just come off his first full season as a striker where he was our top goal scorer, probably our best player over the course of the season and it's mostly (along with Bruno) his form in the last month or two of the season that pushed us to 3rd. And yet there's post after post, page after page, of people saying he's not good enough and he should be sold and replaced. I'd say that's the much more 'unreal' thing.

He's in shit form. Nothing more, nothing less. There's question marks over whether he's going to be good enough going forward to be our main #9 but the criticism that he's copping at the moment is massively overboard.

Also, on the left he had one poor season when he first got moved there full time. One good season where he was our best attacker before being stupidly dropped for Sanchez. And one season where once he finally got a chance ahead of Sanchez he was our best performing attacker again and literally kept Mourinho in a job for a while, but unfortunately injury and illness destroyed the second half of that season as he was constantly in and out of the team.

He has his weaknesses and there is an element of inconsistency there. There's fair criticism. But people are massively overstating it at the moment, and the exact same things could be said for Rashford who if anything has probably been more inconsistent over the last couple of seasons.

 

[Sylar]

He has something to prove. Hopefully he does and sees this as a challenge rather than anything else

If we can get 20 goals again, would be grand

 

[Threesus]

I really don't get the 'goodwill from his fanclub' thing.

Martial has literally just come off his first full season as a striker where he was our top goal scorer, probably our best player over the course of the season and it's mostly (along with Bruno) his form in the last month or two of the season that pushed us to 3rd. And yet there's post after post, page after page, of people saying he's not good enough and he should be sold and replaced. I'd say that's the much more 'unreal' thing.

He's in shit form. Nothing more, nothing less. There's question marks over whether he's going to be good enough going forward to be our main #9 but the criticism that he's copping at the moment is massively overboard.

Also, on the left he had one poor season when he first got moved there full time. One good season where he was our best attacker before being stupidly dropped for Sanchez. And one season where once he finally got a chance ahead of Sanchez he was our best performing attacker again and literally kept Mourinho in a job for a while, but unfortunately injury and illness destroyed the second half of that season as he was constantly in and out of the team.

He has his weaknesses and there is an element of inconsistency there. There's fair criticism. But people are massively overstating it at the moment, and the exact same things could be said for Rashford who if anything has probably been more inconsistent over the last couple of seasons.

With Rashford, I think you have to take his back injury into consideration. I heard Van Persie say that he never felt right for 2 or 3 years after he got a similar injury.

I have always maintained that we are not going to win the PL or the CL with Martial and Rashford as part of our starting attack. If we are by some miracle able to get both Haaland and Sancho, I would have no problem with sending one/both to the bench.

 

[snk123]

This guy gets so much goodwill from fans its unreal.

Really? Isn't it the opposite? He didn't even play, yet the haters like you are out in full force trying to downplay his whole time with us forgetting that he was Players Player of the Year last season.

 

[lex talionis]

You mean Martial who has played with the likes of Ibrahimovic, Rooney, Lukaku and now Cavani and still hasn't learned a damn thing?

This sums it up. We all agree that Tony has bags of talent, and we all agree most strikers go through patches of bad form. But surely must all also agree that Martial’s patches of bad form vastly exceed his patches of good form.

If he just put in the effort but still fired blanks, we’d all appreciate his contribution. But instead he walks about the pitch, waiting for the perfect ball amid doing nothing to make something out of nothing. I’ve got bad news...the perfect ball rarely ever comes. You have to fight for your meals on the pitch. Look at Cavani: he made something out of balls that Martial would have watched go by him, lifted his head back in despair, walked away in pity and then just have a sad look on his face after we drop points to South fukking Hampton.

Martial has a lot to learn from Cavani, but he has to be willing to learn it or else we just need to make him a squad man or sell him. He learned nothing from Ibra and I have little reason to believe he’ll learn anything from Edinson. We shall soon find out whether this will be the case.

 

[Lebo]

Can this forum exist without doing this to anyone of our players? It seems like people forget that there are hardly any players out there who don’t lose form. Martial currently is at 9games 4G+A. Yes it’s not good enough for our attackers but nothing to worry much about because he will bounce back . As long as the goals are better spread compared to last year.

 

[sourdough satellite]

Cavani would not have a place in the Lyon team just to give you perspective, but Martial would play in the same PSG team that Cavani failed.

200 goals in 301 appearances during 7 seasons at PSG, yeah what a failure.

 

[MadDogg]

This sums it up. We all agree that Tony has bags of talent, and we all agree most strikers go through patches of bad form. But surely must all also agree that Martial’s patches of bad form vastly exceed his patches of good form.

Except that's really not the case. He did have the one poor season (16/17) when he first moved completely out to the left, but otherwise he's generally been good and got screwed over by Mourinho's refusal to do anything but play Sanchez on the left and Lukaku in the middle.

17/18 he was easily outperforming Rashford but it took Mourinho a while before he made Martial his first choice. Once he did Martial quickly became our best and most important attacker, but despite that got dropped once we signed Sanchez. It took until Mourinho's job being on the line in 18/19 for him to get a proper chance again and he instantly became our best attacker again and pretty much (along with Pogba) kept Mourinho in a job for two months more than he should have been. Unfortunately Martial struggled with injury and illness for the second half of that season after Ole took over so never got going. The following season Ole moved Martial back up front and he was probably our best player over the course of the season.

So really, most of those "patches of bad form" were actually him not really playing at all through no real fault of his own. Pretty much every time he did get a proper run of games he's performed well. What he's going through now is really the first time since the first half of 16/17 of actual poor form, and even now he's had the lack of a preseason and then missing a bunch of games through that soft red card. As long as he gets back into form soon (and there's been some decent signs in his last two games where he's started both looking better before dropping away again) there's no real issue there.

 

[amsoUG]

The point of contention was his playing style. You said he is a specialist player, my answer to you is that he is not.

Cavani being surplus to requirements at PSG got nothing to do with this discussion. He was injured for 2 seasons and 33 years old. Before that he scored 40 goals in a season while playing with Mbappe and Neymar. He is also their current all-time top-scorer.

A bit non-consequential, but here for your specialist case:-
https://www.goal.com/en-ae/news/pla...ther-to-take-it-to/1cvvxu9n9874d196fevmnkg4wj

An all-time goal scorer does not just become surplus, they progressed and he was only going to hold back their attack based on how they wanted to play. That season where he played with them, he was the odd man out in that attack due to him being an old school forward.

 

[Stacks]

Martial is fine. Cavani will provide some nice comp and we'll see from there. He could still have a decent season but United have never been a club to rest on the hope of one player so I expect us to get another top CF to replace Cavani soon.

 

[amsoUG]

200 goals in 301 appearances during 7 seasons at PSG, yeah what a failure.

I was referring to the current PSG team with Mbappe and Neymar in the attack. A conventional CF would not work well in such an attack, and that's why Cavani looked lost.

Again, I have seen the best strikers in La Liga at a time - Eto and David Villa, best striker and best player in EPL - Thierry, the best striker in Seria A - Ibrahimovic; all go to Barcelona and fail to lead the line when Pep was manager. They were pushed to the wing because a traditional CF as many are asking for here, was not required.

 

[lex talionis]

Except that's really not the case. He did have the one poor season (16/17) when he first moved completely out to the left, but otherwise he's generally been good and got screwed over by Mourinho's refusal to do anything but play Sanchez on the left and Lukaku in the middle.

17/18 he was easily outperforming Rashford but it took Mourinho a while before he made Martial his first choice. Once he did Martial quickly became our best and most important attacker, but despite that got dropped once we signed Sanchez. It took until Mourinho's job being on the line in 18/19 for him to get a proper chance again and he instantly became our best attacker again and pretty much (along with Pogba) kept Mourinho in a job for two months more than he should have been. Unfortunately Martial struggled with injury and illness for the second half of that season after Ole took over so never got going. The following season Ole moved Martial back up front and he was probably our best player over the course of the season.

So really, most of those "patches of bad form" were actually him not really playing at all through no real fault of his own. Pretty much every time he did get a proper run of games he's performed well. What he's going through now is really the first time since the first half of 16/17 of actual poor form, and even now he's had the lack of a preseason and then missing a bunch of games through that soft red card. As long as he gets back into form soon (and there's been some decent signs in his last two games where he's started both looking better before dropping away again) there's no real issue there.

Individual points taken, but “generally been good” is too generous a conclusion to describe Martial’s tenure at Old Trafford. And even if that’s just about the right way to describe him, "good" is jiust not good enough for a United striker:

Mourinho was a disaster all the way around and he definitely mistreated Martial, but even when Sanchez proved to be a shambles Martial couldn’t win Jose’s confidence.

Rather than go point by point here what I’ll acknowledge is that Martial is indeed a generally good player. We occasionally see astonishing feats of brilliance, such as that goal against Liverpool 5 years ago and the goal last year (against who I can’t recall), but he looks out of place as a CF and gives up too easily on half chances. He’s clearly more of an attacking threat on the left taking on defenders than he is through the middle. However, we have a Rashford problem to solve as well, as he isn’t a natural 9 either. So we jam Martial into a position where he’s not ideally suited and chances go wasted as he just isn’t a one touch finisher. He instinctively wants one or two touches to tee up the perfect shot and that’s just not a luxury forwards are typically allowed at this level.

There is a real issue here. Tony has the rest of the season to become a one touch finisher (think Ruud, Rooney and prime Cavani) or not, amd if not, then to go back to playing on the left where he can take on defenders, where he’s most lethal. I doubt you’ll find a single United supporter questioning Martial’s genius in beating defenders on the dribble, but there are significant doubts about his finishing ability in congested spaces on the first touch.

 

[thepolice123]

A bit non-consequential, but here for your specialist case:-
https://www.goal.com/en-ae/news/pla...ther-to-take-it-to/1cvvxu9n9874d196fevmnkg4wj

Don't know what is the point of the article. Cavani has thrived in fluid attacking formations throughout his career. His ability to interchange positions is one of his biggest strengths.

An all-time goal scorer does not just become surplus, they progressed and he was only going to hold back their attack based on how they wanted to play. That season where he played with them, he was the odd man out in that attack due to him being an old school forward.

Yes he was obsolete, that's why he scored 40 goals while playing together with them in 17/18.

Seems like they are doing much better now with Icardi the "modern" striker. Sorry mate but you are a having mare here.

 

[Zoo]

I feel very angry with him.

 

[Robaldo]

 

[Haddock]

He's *this* close to being a fantastic player. Just go with your instict ffs!

 

[Offside]

Not the kind of player I want at United.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Cost us today. Missed two good chances and one of them was a sitter from great/smooth cross/pass from rashford.

 

[Chairman Steve]

How many times have we said “we’d have won if Martial could finish” over the years?

Enough times to legitimately consider knowing he’s not a top striker. Wide forward yes. The striker that starts most weeks no.

 

[el3mel]

I'll say it clear I absolutely can't withstanding watching him as a starter anymore. I'm done with his terrible inconsistency. When he's shite, he's absolutely pointless on the pitch. No, not pointless, he completely fecks us up.

He should be a bench option in any big club and nothing more.

He's 90% of the reason we lost today. I'm so fecking done.

 

[Godfather]

Man was he wank in front of goal

 

[Lay]

Cost us.

 

[pascell]

He's *this* close to being a fantastic player. Just go with your instict ffs!

Personally I dont think he is that close. He's not aggressive or consistent enough, he's been shite all season. Needs to be benched for a few games.

 

[OldTrevil]

this is a trash opinion

this Is an MUFC board, nor Martial cult

shocker a united fan supporting one of our best players our attack is weak without him

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I'm furious with him, I think those two misses may have cost us Champions League football. Particularly the first one.

He's our main striker, it's December and he has one goal from open play all season.

He's been an absolute fecking disgrace this season, we cannot play him next week in Germany. He cannot be trusted.

 

[Feed Me]

Bluffer.

Have said it on numerous occasions now.

We need to get rid of this guy.

His misses today...

 

[cyberman]

Why is he putting his foot through it? Get contact and send it back across ffs!!!