Surely it depends if you think the Bednarek's left knee hits Martial?
I think the only contact comes from his right leg, at which point Martial is already going down...
9
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Surely it depends if you think the Bednarek's left knee hits Martial?
I think the only contact comes from his right leg, at which point Martial is already going down...
Exactly. If a player stays on his feet, by trying to be honest, he could cost the team a goal because the ref will not give it a foul.
By going down, if the foul is given, why not take it? Until the refs start giving penalties for fouls and not going down, this will continue to happen.
Yeah, when player is fouled they should go down, that will help the team.
His first goal was fantastic. Should have had a hat-trick. Good work rate despite us being 4-0 up. Good signs!!
Don’t defend the indefensible. Martial deserves credit for the majority of his performance, but criticised for the dive.
I hope he can continue the good bits, but I saw someone taking the easy way out at that moment.
Did you start watching us this season?
You didn't just criticise the dive. You drew sweeping and illogical (indefensible) conclusions which you're struggling to defend.
I'm pleased he got two goals, and hopefully he's got a bit of motivation back. I feel his form is going to be important in the months ahead.
Regarding going down, sorry but it's a dive of the Steven Gerrard variety (drag the leg, feel contact, fall over) and we'd be angry if it was given against us, especially if it resulted in a red card. It's not the first time he's done it this season (vs Man city).
I think a lot of players are doing this now. Greenwood did something similar in the Champions league and won a terrible penalty but I guess you can argue that if VAR and the refs don't pick up on this stuff then, of course players are going to do it. I think we had one go against us on the opening day of the season that was similar?
Regarding going down, sorry but it's a dive of the Steven Gerrard variety (drag the leg, feel contact, fall over) and we'd be angry if it was given against us, especially if it resulted in a red card. It's not the first time he's done it this season (vs Man city).
I think a lot of players are doing this now. Greenwood did something similar in the Champions league and won a terrible penalty but I guess you can argue that if VAR and the refs don't pick up on this stuff then, of course players are going to do it. I think we had one go against us on the opening day of the season that was similar?
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He made a meal off contact in the box. Whether it's in slow-motion or full speed, it's pretty clear it's a penalty. I don't think it should have ever been a red or even yellow card though, but I guess that's the way the rule is written and enforced nowadays until next time they decide to change it.
But leave it to some to use this as a way to bring down Martial or give their 10 cents psycho-analysis on his mentality (because that never gets old) or whatever other literary diarrheas some have spilling out of their keyboards because, god forbid, Martial didn't have another stinker they could alleviate their frustrations upon. There's always next game.
But leave it to some to use this as a way to bring down Martial or give their 10 cents psycho-analysis on his mentality (because that never gets old) or whatever other literary diarrheas some have spilling out of their keyboards because, god forbid, Martial didn't have another stinker they could alleviate their frustrations upon. There's always next game.
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It was a good half by him but, as much as I rate him and get annoyed by the lazy moniker because I think is unfair, he does need to keep that level of work rate and movement up more often to get any kind of consistency in his performances.
For the penalty, think it's going to really hurt him/us because so much has been made of it, pundits outright saying it was cheating on his part. In a match we were already up 6-0, seems like that one point was discussed more than anything else, as though it had some bearing on the game's outcome. Yes it does have a impact for Soton but, not one of them were discussing that point. Bet the house, next time Martial gets clipped in the box, it gets waved off.
For the penalty, think it's going to really hurt him/us because so much has been made of it, pundits outright saying it was cheating on his part. In a match we were already up 6-0, seems like that one point was discussed more than anything else, as though it had some bearing on the game's outcome. Yes it does have a impact for Soton but, not one of them were discussing that point. Bet the house, next time Martial gets clipped in the box, it gets waved off.
He is constructing it and it's not a penalty. He starts going down and dragging his leg before the contact. It's also quite obvious that he is seeking the contact and Bednarek is doing his best to avoid it. When did contact in the box equal penalty? Because it doesn't. Did the contact make him fall? No. It is cheating, it's embarrassing to watch and it has to stop. I understand our rivals frustration with us being rewarded for this.
Apart from this situation, Martial played very well and looked like he was switched on.
Like any of them would still be watching when we're 6 goals up.
If there is contact, then it is from that left knee, because it’s at that point Martial goes down. The thing is, we’ve probably watched this about 100 times now and none of us know if he touched him or not.
The asylum here though seems to think that they know whether he dived or not. Loons.
Exactly. I always remember the penalty Messi missed against chelsea in the semi final of the 2012 UCL. Similar situation and it wasn't even a goal bound move. Fabregas anticipated Torres's tackle and went down with minimal touch.
I think it’s a penalty because there’s contact. But yes of course he played for it.
The law needs changing if that’s a red though, there needs to be a smarter interpretation. This is the frustrating thing about VAR, the referee can have extra time to look at it and decide whether he thinks it’s an attempt to play the ball or whether it’s a deliberate attempt to simply stop the player. In this kind of scenario, and the David Luiz one, they were quite clearly accidental. We should be utilising VAR to clear this kind of thing up.
The law needs changing if that’s a red though, there needs to be a smarter interpretation. This is the frustrating thing about VAR, the referee can have extra time to look at it and decide whether he thinks it’s an attempt to play the ball or whether it’s a deliberate attempt to simply stop the player. In this kind of scenario, and the David Luiz one, they were quite clearly accidental. We should be utilising VAR to clear this kind of thing up.
Believe me when I tell you that us cheating/diving is a thing in pretty much every other clubs footydiscussions. It's hard to argue against some of our players going down too easily. I'm a big fan of fairplay and going down like that is the opposite. When it results in a red card and a penalty, when they are already down to 10 men and it's 6-0, it's even more worse. That step in the air with his left too, it's just painful to watch.
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Who cares what other clubs’ fans think? Feck em.
Bednarek’s run was extremely clumsy, if he would have avoided Martial had Martial kept running it would have been an impressive athletic achievement. I think Martial goes down early but Bednarek was about to collide and run through his trailing leg. Who knows what was going through his head, but the narrative some are pushing is hyperbolic to say the least.
Bednarek’s run was extremely clumsy, if he would have avoided Martial had Martial kept running it would have been an impressive athletic achievement. I think Martial goes down early but Bednarek was about to collide and run through his trailing leg. Who knows what was going through his head, but the narrative some are pushing is hyperbolic to say the least.
That is not enough. This is not basketball. When Martial seeks contact, starts going down just before the contact, steps in the air with his left and falls flat on his belly for a touch too light to topple a house of cards and everybody can see Bednarek is doing his best to avoid the contact, it's not a penalty. It's just cheating and a yellow for Martial. We cannot defend this shit.
Where do you stand on doping? .....as long as we don't get caught of course. Cannot defend this stuff.
He touches marital, martial goes down as he should. End of. Nothing to see here.
I disagree, and obviously so did the refs since it went through a VAR check and was still granted. It's how the rules are written I suppose and they were enforced. There's also contact on the leg, it happens in a split second, so maybe he dragged the leg after he saw his first touch was going to push the ball too far, but he basically makes the touch and starts to chase the ball and gets hit, it happens so quickly when it's viewed at full speed that it's hard to tell for a referee or anybody whether it was a clear dive.
I felt no embarrassment whatsoever watching it, I actually kind of like players trying to step on the throat of a team when they're down, couldn't care less what rivals or anybody thinks of it.
We can see the contact but we can also see that the defender genuinely was trying to avoid the contact. Still, there’s enough, barely but enough, contact for a correct pk call.
But even though it was a goal scoring opportunity, the opportunity looked to have been lost before the contact. The red card was harsh.
But even though it was a goal scoring opportunity, the opportunity looked to have been lost before the contact. The red card was harsh.
I don't know where all the hate for Martial going down at the slight touch is coming from. Last year when city were playing and Sterling was fouled in the box, he didn't go down and the ref decided it wasn't a pen. There was a debate in the studio where Neville - or some other dude? Literally said he has to throw himself on the floor at the slightest touch or else these won't be given. They were literally advocating for this shit yet now they're getting outraged about it?
I think people take issue with doing that when the result was certain. I completely disagree with that mentality and think it’s more disrespectful to the opponent if you take it easy on them or don’t capitalize on every opportunity. I suspect if it was anybody else but Martial or Pogba, this wouldn’t even be more than a passing comment.
happy he scored, hoping it will do him the world of good. Personally I think the way he’s been treated by the fan base in general has been nothing short of a disgrace and I really mean that.
The guy joined us as a teenager from France who could barely speak English. Since then he‘s showed he’s obviously extremely talented, scored 80 goals (a few away from overtaking Cantona), assisted roughly 40 more and contributed to all of our trophies post Fergie. He carried us in his first season at 19 years old and there were several times when he could have left us to join other top clubs whilst Mourinho was in charge the way plenty have left us in the past but instead he stuck through the hard times and was such a key player for us in his first full season under Ole. Player‘s player of the year, top scorer and was crucial in our pursuit of climbing the table. All of that and what do we do?
Rather than acknowledge that this is a player who has not only been important for us over the last 5 years and is a player who clearly loves the club, we decide to criticise and abuse him during a difficult period in his career. Rather than take the opportunity to take him in and support him at a time when the team is doing well and is in good spirits we’ve decided to pile the pressure on him to the point where he’s asked for security out of fear for his family’s safety from the same ‘fans’ who were probably loving him last season. There’s not many times I’ve been genuinely embarrassed to be a United fan but this is one of them. That’s the last I’m going to say on this topic, and it will be all the more embarrassing when he eventually and inevitably does hit the ground running again and the narrative about him flips on its head once again.
The guy joined us as a teenager from France who could barely speak English. Since then he‘s showed he’s obviously extremely talented, scored 80 goals (a few away from overtaking Cantona), assisted roughly 40 more and contributed to all of our trophies post Fergie. He carried us in his first season at 19 years old and there were several times when he could have left us to join other top clubs whilst Mourinho was in charge the way plenty have left us in the past but instead he stuck through the hard times and was such a key player for us in his first full season under Ole. Player‘s player of the year, top scorer and was crucial in our pursuit of climbing the table. All of that and what do we do?
Rather than acknowledge that this is a player who has not only been important for us over the last 5 years and is a player who clearly loves the club, we decide to criticise and abuse him during a difficult period in his career. Rather than take the opportunity to take him in and support him at a time when the team is doing well and is in good spirits we’ve decided to pile the pressure on him to the point where he’s asked for security out of fear for his family’s safety from the same ‘fans’ who were probably loving him last season. There’s not many times I’ve been genuinely embarrassed to be a United fan but this is one of them. That’s the last I’m going to say on this topic, and it will be all the more embarrassing when he eventually and inevitably does hit the ground running again and the narrative about him flips on its head once again.
What we all want to see is Anthony Martial regain his form of six years ago.
I get he’s usually not very good but he seems to have the basics there. I see Rashford and I see a player who has surprisingly much to learn given his experiences. I see Martial and I see a player whose contributions often cannot be defended but he at least seems to be a proper footballer who even if rarely setting the world alight can settle in and contribute competently to the play
Totally agree.
But don't expect some "fans" to change their tunes. They will gladly disappear once Martial rediscovers his scoring touch and resurface again with venoms in his next possible draught. It happens many time, and will happen again, maybe until we win some serious silverwares.
Remember the Mourinho's reign when some of those fans shit on players like Martial and Shaw, Pepperidge farm remembers!
Except that goes against everything Martial has done in his time here. Debut goal against Liverpool, the winner against Spurs, the winner against Chelsea last season, game decider against City last season, winner against Newcastle to save Jose's job, and that just off the top of my head. The narrative around Martial is just ridiculous, he's a top player having a poor season, that can happen to anyone especially players who are still maturing into their game.
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Blimey, talk about building a strawman
Great post. How some of our fans on these boards talk about our players, is nothing short of disgraceful
I can't believe this narrative is coming back despite the years of evidence to the contrary. Such idiocy.
I honestly don't mind the criticism of players especially when even Martials biggest fans can see he's had a really poor season, but there just no need at all to repeat lies to make a false point. Its right out the Trump playbook.
Well said. The swirling hysteria and doggy-pile nature of football and its followers is pathetic. People are passionate about their teams which is great, but they seem to take it really personally when a player isn't constantly in shit hot form. Everything else goes out of the window and suddenly that player is 'stealing a living' and is depicted as some kind of enemy. I imagine the proliferation of toxic social media behaviours has a lot to do with it.
Exactly. I annoy some people on here with my Martial fandom but I'm totally open to having a debate about his strengths and weaknesses but it's incredibly frustrating when you see obvious lies and old cliches entering the conversation. I'd love to just be able to talk about what his game and areas he can improve with people who watch the matches but find myself in constant disputes with people who trot out false narratives.
I just saw on United's website that McT's goal against Southampton got more votes than Martial's world class goal as the pick of the bunch 
Cavani's goal was the goal of the night, for me. Such a great header.
The cross made that goal. Cavani is short and didn't even have to jump. Nothing special about the header at all
Important to note too I don’t think players should be immune to criticism. Martial has deserved some for his performances this season but there’s a level that gets crossed with Martial that far exceeds what other players experience. Luke Shaw for example has been underwhelming for 3 or 4 years now and he got criticized by many but from what I recall it never got to the point of abuse or spamming his social media with messages telling him to leave the club, and now he’s one of our best players (similar to Martial the talent was always there with him). I just for the life of me can’t see what Martial has done to deserve this treatment, alongside Rashford he‘s outperformed almost every attacker we’ve had at the club, he was treated terribly by Mourinho and contrary to the narrative he always bounced back and forced his way in to the team, even saving Mourinhos job for a while with his goals. He’s shown loyalty and love for the club and the fans time and time again and half a season of poor form and he’s become a punching bag for a huge part of the fan base.
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