Still talking about a dive for the penalty? Any footballer would do it today! Get used to it! Everybody does it and it doesn't get punished! I'm glad we're aboard that train as well now!
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 36
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
So, do people not remember the game against Spurs where Martial decided not to go down when Lamela gave him a shove in the throat and instead gave Lamela a little push back and ended up banned for 3 games? You have to go down when your touched or you'll get nothing and if you don't there's a good chance they'll do it to you anyway.
"What will the kids see and learn" is some nonsense. Kids pick up things from hundreds of people.
Short @OldTrevil ? He’s 184 (6ft)
It was a cracking header for what it’s worth, and yes the cross was sublime.
I think he may come from the bench again this weekend but hopefully he grabs another goal and kicks on.
Of course, criticism is warranted is for everyone as long as it's done fairly. There is enough "material" to criticize him for without all the insults he regularly gets thrown at him and very often in not "heat of the moment" moments.
The guy has been racially abused on social media for years now, he deserves a better treatment from real fans.
Many people on here and in social media don't represent real fans, they're a tiny minority that's online so they sound the loudest. They don't represent the fandom of the club IMO.
It's kind of maddening to read some of the things written on here, it's like people are living in a completely different reality.Short @OldTrevil ? He’s 184 (6ft)
It was a cracking header for what it’s worth, and yes the cross was sublime.
If Ole was his manager since he came here, I think Martial will be much better then now.
He wasted so much time with Van Gaal and Mourinho, that's unbelievebale. You can say the same about Rashford.
But he is 25 now and he has nowhere to hide. I like him, he is an exciting player and can produce some wonderfull stuff but when he is bad he is unwatchable and so lazy. And he has been almost all season.
It is kind of revolting that Cavani can run so much more then him. If he was more hardworking and pressing even on a bad day he will get less stick.
He has everything but it looks like he has not the attitude required to progress and surpass himself which is the bred and butter at the highest level.
After such a good season last year to come back with that kind of performances is unforgivable. He let the team down really. I can't explain it really. It was looking like he went up a level only to play the worst footy of his career. Maybe there was too much expectations for him and he just crumbled.
I am afraid that his good performance last game was just because there was no expectations, no pressure and not a corner turned to put his season back on track. We will see I suppose. Just hope he come back good as we need him in form.
He wasted so much time with Van Gaal and Mourinho, that's unbelievebale. You can say the same about Rashford.
But he is 25 now and he has nowhere to hide. I like him, he is an exciting player and can produce some wonderfull stuff but when he is bad he is unwatchable and so lazy. And he has been almost all season.
It is kind of revolting that Cavani can run so much more then him. If he was more hardworking and pressing even on a bad day he will get less stick.
He has everything but it looks like he has not the attitude required to progress and surpass himself which is the bred and butter at the highest level.
After such a good season last year to come back with that kind of performances is unforgivable. He let the team down really. I can't explain it really. It was looking like he went up a level only to play the worst footy of his career. Maybe there was too much expectations for him and he just crumbled.
I am afraid that his good performance last game was just because there was no expectations, no pressure and not a corner turned to put his season back on track. We will see I suppose. Just hope he come back good as we need him in form.
The problem is that he'd be a bench player on 250k a week. I don't think it would be a good solution hence I say to sell.
I see some folks come here to bash Martial by comparing him to Cavani - what Martial can do, Cavani will never do and what Cavani does has always been the standard for every British CF in most teams - good movement, great in the air, fighter - poor on the ball. It is exhausting and boring watching these sort of players - so I hope Martial will remain consistent and keep this Cavani dude out of the team as he did with Ighalo.
This was the same bias that fans had with Ighalo when he had come in - but later people got to realise that he was so poor on the ball. Martial just needs a couple of weeks on form and it will be night and day when being compared to Cavani - they are both good in their own right but it is becoming nauseating with how the media and commentators just set up one for criticism and another for praise with their sly remarks.
Whereas talent is not enough - talent will take you where effort cannot. The energy, movement and pressing (without the ball) that Cavani, Fred, Mct bring to the team is good but I would never take it over a player with actual ability on the ball. If it was Mourinho's era, yes, since we used to play without the ball, but now I want more players who can play with the ball - Martial, Pogba, DVB, Mata, Mason, Rash, Bruno.
Hard workers can remain in the team to support technical players - for this reason, I like Fred & Matic, they are able to understand this role well.
So for me - take your hard-working CF stuff to Stoke City or those clubs down the table, am not impressed if you are limited technically on the ball.
This was the same bias that fans had with Ighalo when he had come in - but later people got to realise that he was so poor on the ball. Martial just needs a couple of weeks on form and it will be night and day when being compared to Cavani - they are both good in their own right but it is becoming nauseating with how the media and commentators just set up one for criticism and another for praise with their sly remarks.
Whereas talent is not enough - talent will take you where effort cannot. The energy, movement and pressing (without the ball) that Cavani, Fred, Mct bring to the team is good but I would never take it over a player with actual ability on the ball. If it was Mourinho's era, yes, since we used to play without the ball, but now I want more players who can play with the ball - Martial, Pogba, DVB, Mata, Mason, Rash, Bruno.
Hard workers can remain in the team to support technical players - for this reason, I like Fred & Matic, they are able to understand this role well.
So for me - take your hard-working CF stuff to Stoke City or those clubs down the table, am not impressed if you are limited technically on the ball.
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Martial has to agree to terms with another team, and I don't see any other team offering him 250k a week. Saying sell is a whole lot easier than actually getting it done with him. Martial is not going anywhere IMO, but I still believe he will be a big contributor to this team's success down the line.
Damn, crazy that Cavani carved out such a successful career at the top level when he is a 'standard CF'
People need to stop conflating great technical ability with being a great player.
Complains that posters come here to bash Martial, proceeds to immediately bash Cavani.
Amazing that Cavani has been one of the best forwards in the World for years by being a “standard” Stoke CF and poor on the ball. My God man give your head a real hard shake and watch the crapness on the ball....
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It was just ok, and a bit mechanical (against very poor opposition) - a Lukaku sort of dribble. Btw, I like Cavani - I just don't like what the media does to him vs Martial; same with Rash vs Martial; early in the season it was DVB vs Pogba - I hate this stuff!Damn, crazy that Cavani carved out such a successful career at the top level when he is a 'standard CF'
People need to stop conflating great technical ability with being a great player.
Klose is one of the most successful strikers in football - doesn't mean that he is everyone's cup of tea as a footballer.
Great technical ability is the cornerstone of being a great player. e.g. It does not matter how many goals CR7 scores (and I like him much), Messi has an edge over him technically that no matter how long CR7 plays, he can never match that. They both have great technique - but Messi is Messi. Same with Maradona, he did not win much but the sheer technical ability was unquestionable. Pele may think it is unfair to be compared to such a 'loser ' in Maradona, with fewer trophies and goals; but everyone remembers his ability on the ball and ability to use it to win.
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why cant a technically good player work hard? In fact why shouldnt they??
Its delusion if you think its ok to have passengers at a top level elite club. EVERY player has to work hard.
Old age head-ache dealing with creatives - for teachers, professors, business owners, corporate managers and even parents.
Talent is not enough by John Maxwell covers this well. Personally, I think these players need life coaches to beak such mentalities and mindsets. Players like Sneijder wasted their careers with such slackness covering it with lots of ability. CR7 should become a role model for every player in terms of how to combine talent and discipline.
So whereas a player like Martial (hopefully) can help us reach very great heights, Cavani gives us the assurance to remain on the right track of success without necessarily being so jaw-dropping (which as a bit of a realist I welcome with open arms) but the dreamer in me will always hope for Martial to break out.
So the debate ends up being about two camps wired differently by nature: dreamers who want success as a derivative of emotive (are for Martial) VS realists who want assured success (anti-Martial). It's normal that they agree to disagree. This is the uniqueness in all of us.
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What a horrible take.
You will stay a 'New Member' with ridiculous train wreck posts like this.
Hang on a minute, you questioned if i watched football by saying what i said in my last post, but then the next minute you say the highlighted
If you've had enough of him, then something must be eating away at you more than just this season (we are only half way through), how about just say it like it is, he's always been hit and miss and someone that can never be relied upon, do a search on posts on Martial from last season and you will see people didn't think he was "great" last season either, he had his critics then, not just on RedCafe, pundits even went on about it last season (Gary Neville/Paul Scholes) he's the definition of a maramite player.
No rival fans talk about Anthony Martial (other than he's shit) and most people here will know no elite club will ever be in for him should United want rid, so if thats the case and Manchester United are an elite club with aim of winning the Premier League and Champions League regularly, why the hell should this guy be starting for us more times than not? If Martial was playing for another club would you be like "we have to sign this guy NOW?" If it's a no, then you must think we need an upgrade too and if thats the case why question "if i watch football" when you'd agree with me?
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It is deluded posts like these and posters like you who facilitate all the Martial bashing. You folks want everyone to believe Martial is the next big thing since sliced bread, that he is the best attacking player out there not just in the squad but the world. And then you crib when people hold him to that exact standard. Post after posts of outlandish claims about Martial's ability backed by no stats or line of reasoning and posts after posts of dismissing all criticism as mere cliches despite those being backed by facts. The day Martial stans begin to post balanced opinions will be the day Martial bashers start posting fair criticism. You want the over the top bashing to stop? Stop making over the top claims about his ability. He is a talented player dependent on a very specific skillet to perform well and has some glaring weaknesses to his game too. His strengths are not serving him well this season but we all hope he turns it around.
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Well, I joined 4 YEARS before you! The group-think and enforced conformity by folks like will not rule anyone.
Not really making his point any weaker there, bud.
Looks shorter in relation to most on the field so I doubt that is accurate, lets see how high his leap tonight is as he tends to be too eager to overcompensateShort @OldTrevil ? He’s 184 (6ft)
It was a cracking header for what it’s worth, and yes the cross was sublime.
Can you highlight any of my posts that mention your assertions - I believe you are putting words in my mouth. Where do I say that Martial is the next big thing or best-attacking player out there?
I agree that we should all hope that all our players turn it around.
My observations are based on what I consider one to be a brilliant footballer and to be honest, If I wasn't a utd fan from childhood, I would possibly have been an Ajax or Barca fan based on Ideology and football philosophy. So my observations and remarks are based on what I consider a proper player should be. Excuse me if my posts seem offensive but I am certain counter-attacking will have to be phased out for big teams. Players need to learn to work hard with the ball not just work hard without the ball.
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Actually was here even before 2012 - I preferred just reading then, so I could pick up the pulse of the fans. The contribution by a lot of these new accounts with very many posts in a short while is usually very entitled and childish, possibly they are young and it's the pride of their adolescence/youth.
So back to your alluded remark: It baffles me that a people today are that much taken up with validation. It is insecurity and consolidated group-thinks (same with all type of stans for celebrity, political or other) that they think anyone else with a different view is wrong - this is going to be the birth of folly - people are becoming dumb and dumber since they cannot allow themselves to objectively listen to different views outside of their echo chambers. So I have no qualms about being a new member or not because I did not come seeking for validation.
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In our attack, he's shorter than Rashy, Martial and Mason. In midfield, shorter than McT, Paul and Matic, and is shorter than most of our defenders apart from Shaw. So yes, he's tiny in comparison to most of our good players especially in attack and I very much doubt that 184cm height you threw out is accurate
Why he was not brought on last night? He is best among forward who can hold the ball and allow team to push up.
It takes a special type of wetwipe to highlight a Uruguayan player who has excelled in Italy, France and now England, to criticise English football.
Cavani knows his role perfectly and would succeed in every league in world football. His type of striker is universal. It'd be like criticising a centre back for being good in the air whilst being unable to do an elastico.
It's childish and against the TOS on this platform to throw insults at people you disagree with.
Kindly read my post properly, it highlights Cavani to be a traditional CF like many want in EPL, and I do not take anything away from him.
Whereas I am not a fan of the English football philosophy, I did not directly criticise the football ideology in that post but rather highlighted what happens with most strikers at most English clubs.
On your point about a specific CF role and success, here is my opinion: Pep discarded the best traditional strikers in the top leagues of world football while creating the best team in world football - Villa (used on the wing) & Eto (Spain), Ibra (Italy), Henry (England) (used on the wing). 4 world-class strikers removed to create the best-attacking team in club football! So yes, football can be more than specific traditional roles!
And yes, having the right football ideology has a bigger influence on success than just having hard-working players. It is no coincidence that Spain, Germany and England benefited from Pep managing in those leagues - Spain won the world cup, German won the world cup, England finally played well and could have reached the finals with a bit of luck. Young English players in Man City are proper footballers. So ideology based on technique carries more weight.
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You're really not helping yourself here. Shocking revision of logic.
But let's indulge. If you think Anthony Martial gets in any one of Pep's teams, then I would really have no explanation for how delusional you are.
And yet you did the exact same thing, complaining how exhausting it was watching the likes of Cavani. Embarrassing.
It has nothing to do with validation, it has to do with objectivity. I'm a big Martial fan because he does have unique abilities in the team (mainly his close control and dribbling, which he hasn't shown much of even last season but at least he was banging them in), but he has been undoubtedly awful more than brilliant this season . You come in and kind of disrespect what a guy like Cavani is capable of and has shown consistently at the top level as opposed to a guy like Martial. Beyond his traditional skillset, you also take for granted the attitude and energy he brings to the side on a mental aspect. I understand your point about styles, but not only is it poorly expressed, it's also not rooted in the reality that Martial has had the clear chances when the season started to keep his spot as the CF, but he's simply failed to live up to his previous season.
A player like Martial gets an unfair shake at times from the media, the same points get regurgitated and it seems any good performances he has has to come with a caveat; but this season he's simply been poor and it's hard to defend it.
Who talked about Martial getting into Pep's team? I think some of our fans are getting MDS - Martial Derangement Syndrome.
The whole point of your original Cavani post was to bill up Martial and shun down Cavani for being what you essentially describe as a lesser Lukaku. So, Charlie Austin perhaps? So Cavani is Charlie Austin but with more goals?
You've gone so far, it seems you've forgotten the point of your own original post.
The biggest difference between Cavani and Martial is mentality . Martial is a bottler. He will never ever become an elite level player because he shies away from responsibility. He may be next Pele talent wise but has an attitude and mentality of a mid table player, who knows his place is secure, his team is neither going down or challenging for the title.
In our attack, he's shorter than Rashy, Martial and Mason. In midfield, shorter than McT, Paul and Matic, and is shorter than most of our defenders apart from Shaw. So yes, he's tiny in comparison to most of our good players especially in attack and I very much doubt that 184cm height you threw out is accurate
Their heights are all on the internet. You can google them.
Shaw's 6ft 1 btw so is taller than Cavani and AWB (6 ft) who are taller than Martial and Greenwood (both about 5-11).
From what I’ve taken in the last page is that the same poster has said that Martial is a better player than “this Cavani dude“ because he’s more skilful on the ball and that big clubs will have to eventually phase out counter attacks.
Oh I also forgot if you’re a hardworking CF you should feck off to Stoke.
Oh I also forgot if you’re a hardworking CF you should feck off to Stoke.
It’s not that hard to defend Martial. That’s the problem.
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