[w1thout]

In his first season (most productive) he scored 11 in the league (17 total) and assisted 4 (9 in all competitions).
Already on 9 goals and 3 assists in the league (14 and 5 in all comp.).
He is well on course for his most productive season.

 

[Bobcat]

And I get that & yet, people act like this team is filled with players who are playing consistent all the time.

LVG's tenure he was one of the most important players.
Mourinho's tenure he arguably saved his arse.
Ole's tenure literally all of United's final third attack is constantly revolving around him and nobody else and yet people are complaining about his consistency - that's what I find confusing.

Give the lad a little break man.

He's had one full season as a striker at United if I remember correctly because half way through LVG's tenure he started using Rooney centrally more aswell.

No one is here to convince anyone that he is a Balon do'r winner & he never sulked about competition for striker spots so he will deal with that if that comes & that should come because he is a very niche style striker that requires right set up to work but that doesn't make him cr*p.

That requires the right players, the right formation, the right tactics & the right manager for it to work.

You've seen it at other clubs - strikers who looked absolutely woeful suddenly looked like they were controlling the game in a different way under a different set up under a different manager & many of us saw it when Martial was playing centrally playing next to Rashford - not only become a better version of himself but help make Rashford become a better version of himself too because he is that type of striker; a supporting one.

Just the hate to performance ratio is very skewed in my opinion.

I know it ultimately won't stop because he may not get that goal when we need it the most - because as you say you see it he is never consistent but expecting a support striker to be the most consistent goal scorer is a tad unfair; especially when there's no one else about.

That's all very reasonable, but take Rashford, Fred, Maguire or AWB for example, they can have good games and bad ones like everybody, but the difference between a good day and a bad one is not that massive. Martial can go from looking genuine world class in one game to utterly useless the next one.

I dont think people hate him as much as they are frustrated by him. If he could play to about 70% or better of his ability consistently, he would easily be a 25+goals a season CF

 

[Cassidy]

That's all very reasonable, but take Rashford, Fred, Maguire or AWB for example, they can have good games and bad ones like everybody, but the difference between a good day and a bad one is not that massive. Martial can go from looking genuine world class in one game to utterly useless the next one.

I dont think people hate him as much as they are frustrated by him. If he could play to about 70% or better of his ability consistently, he would easily be a 25+goals a season CF

Rashford too, was only this season people were saying he needs dropping.

Maguire to an extent too, Fred well....

 

[Volumiza]

That's all very reasonable, but take Rashford, Fred, Maguire or AWB for example, they can have good games and bad ones like everybody, but the difference between a good day and a bad one is not that massive. Martial can go from looking genuine world class in one game to utterly useless the next one.

I dont think people hate him as much as they are frustrated by him. If he could play to about 70% or better of his ability consistently, he would easily be a 25+goals a season CF

This is about it for me. No one doubts his class but his goal last night showed what he can do with the tools he has. He showed everything he can do. He played the percentages when the throw was coming over, then used pace and strength to get past and hold off the opposing defender before finishing with a class finish. The early Thierry Henry comparisons were all over last nights goal.

He has everything he needs to be a top, top striker but to become one he has to do it more often. No it won’t always work for him but I want to see him battling away all the time and sometimes he just looks like he’s watching the game. You want to see him being a nuisance for the whole match, whether what he’s doing works or not.

Rashford too, was only this season people were saying he needs dropping.

Maguire to an extent too, Fred well....

I think Rashford needed a good season this season, it did seem like he lost his way a bit. Thankfully he’s stepped up. I think Martial has another couple of good steps up in him.

Kudos for the goals this week though and I genuinely am interested to see what Bruno will get out of Martial. From the few minutes Bruno was on the pitch last night and the passes he was making, Martial could have a field day when they start playing together.

 

[Deleted 112447]

Let's summarise Martial's season up statistically:
14 goals and 5 assists in roughly 2200 minutes this season.

- Same number of non penalty goals (13) and assists (5) as Rashford this season, having played 100 mins less than Marcus.
- Same number of combined Goals and Assists (19) this season as Harry Kane, having played exactly the same number of minutes.
- More combined G+A than Aubameyang and Griezmann who are on 18 and 17 respectively for the season (having played less minutes than both).
- 4 more goals than Firmino in all competitions.
- One goal fewer than Tammy Abraham (15) in all competitions, having played 200 mins less than the Chelsea striker.

He's by no means flawless, but a player that can put up numbers like that playing for possibly the most disjointed United side in recent history should be appreciated, and you really wonder what kind of numbers he'd have put up if he had the chance to play with likes of Pogba, Rash and Bruno more than he has been able to so far this season. He's a super talent and he's getting more confident as a goalscorer. If we were a rational fanbase, it would be quite clear he's quite literally almost the least of our worries.

It's also his first season to play nr.9 since he was a teen. He will improve imo next season, especially with the service of Bruno in place of Lingard and Pereira.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He'd

That's all very reasonable, but take Rashford, Fred, Maguire or AWB for example, they can have good games and bad ones like everybody, but the difference between a good day and a bad one is not that massive. Martial can go from looking genuine world class in one game to utterly useless the next one.

I dont think people hate him as much as they are frustrated by him. If he could play to about 70% or better of his ability consistently, he would easily be a 25+goals a season CF

This is far from the truth. Rashford was binned as a great talent by many and repeatedly so, reduced to a kick and run type limited player. AWB can be a horror show on the ball in how limited his game is. Pogba goes from sublime to poor regularly for us. Martial isn't the first player to be pulled down by an incoherent football team, and won't be the last, and isn't the only one in ours either.

 

[zenith]

He will really come into his own if we can actually get bruno integrated even more, rashford to his left, credible RW and maybe even Grealish to provide the through balls to run onto.

The possibilities are immense

 

[Bebestation]

Rashford too, was only this season people were saying he needs dropping.

Maguire to an extent too, Fred well....

I was just about to post this.

That's all very reasonable, but take Rashford, Fred, Maguire or AWB for example, they can have good games and bad ones like everybody, but the difference between a good day and a bad one is not that massive. Martial can go from looking genuine world class in one game to utterly useless the next one.

I dont think people hate him as much as they are frustrated by him. If he could play to about 70% or better of his ability consistently, he would easily be a 25+goals a season CF

It's not that I don't agree to a degree, I do find him frustrating at times but to me Martial is something like the glue to the forward line so my frustration is held back when no one is there because I understand what is missing in that team to get the best out of him when there's literally nothing to interlink.

Whilst Rashford was scoring goals for fun, Martial was doing very well for us - he wasn't average - he was consistent in that team and people were pretty shocked at Martials game play hidden behind Rashford's 2nd coming - talking about Martials ability to hold things together, his first touch, him pulling things out of the air like he was Peter crouch, him fooling people with little flicks and one twos and quick vision through balls. He was doing that for bloody ages. Never mind his goals.

Literally people were laughing at Lukaku's first touch & now 1 & half months later - people literally on this forum say that he doesn't have a good first touch. Do you know why? Because he has absolutely no one to interlink with - he was the glue to our forward line and now we don't have forwards all the defenders have to do is to flannel him out completely.

As I say it - Martial is a niche player & only some fans will support it because some just don't get what he does or why he does it. Some people just don't see why he wants to play so deep all the time and doesn't run to the box ( this is why the best managers in the world start their false 9's deepest of their strikers and not the furthest forward - asking them to press and drop deep like our manager does).

Tell me this - have you seen Martial's effort to run in to the box after making a quick one two pass? It's normally very quick and energetic compared to when he plays furthest forward and has dropped deep to make a pass and then make another run after that.

As an indication of our set up let me show you - why did we play (as shown by heat maps)

Martial
Rashford - - - - - - - - Greenwood​

​

Instead of

Rashford ------------ Greenwood
Martial

?​

It achieves the exact same thing but shows the difference in managerial quality between Pep& Klopp Vs Ole when using such a niche tactic like a false 9- using 433 vs a defensive 4231, an uneeded attacking midfielder on top of it, defensive tactics to cover the wide channels.

Rashford & Greenwood in the furthest forward wide attackers partnership would be beautiful to watch. They would be doing the wide pressing with Martial as a False 9 Pivot, doing the dribbling, some of the passing and hold up play whilst making quick runs after making his quick one twos in between the two wide clinical strikers which he always 100% does.

These are the little reasons why I'm not frustrated by Martial. I just feel like I get him.

 

[Bobcat]

Rashford too, was only this season people were saying he needs dropping.

Maguire to an extent too, Fred well....

He'd

This is far from the truth. Rashford was binned as a great talent by many and repeatedly so, reduced to a kick and run type limited player. AWB can be a horror show on the ball in how limited his game is. Pogba goes from sublime to poor regularly for us. Martial isn't the first player to be pulled down by an incoherent football team, and won't be the last, and isn't the only one in ours either.

Fair enough, Rashford can blow pretty hot and cold himself, but imo the difference between his best and his worst is not that big. Also Rashford seems like a classic form player where he will be great and then hit a slump of 5-6 games where he plays really poorly.

With Martial though, he can go from great too diabolical from one game to the next.

Maguire and AWB are very consistent imo. AWB has always been horrible going forward but has a 8/10 defensive display pretty much every game. Fred since finsing his feet here have been the most consistent performer this season

 

[ghaliboy]

This is still unacceptable for a senior striker on 200+ bik's a week. I'd call these numbers 'poor, trending to slightly above average'. There has been a noticeable uptick in work rate which has lead to an obvious increase in application and desire to score goals and that is something stable to build on. But you have to be pretty delusional and desperate for something to praise to think that this has been an acceptable season from him. Unless he goes on a Rashford-like tear down the end of the season, which might be possible.

 

[roonster09]

This is still unacceptable for a senior striker on 200+ bik's a week. I'd call these numbers 'poor, trending to slightly above average'. There has been a noticeable uptick in work rate which has lead to an obvious increase in application and desire to score goals and that is something stable to build on. But you have to be pretty delusional and desperate for something to praise to think that this has been an acceptable season from him. Unless he goes on a Rashford-like tear down the end of the season, which might be possible.

19 goals + assists in 27 starts is not poor, it's good numbers. He has played 2262 mins this season, so that's 119 mins per G+A.

 

[Wade3]

I was just about to post this.



It's not that I don't agree to a degree, I do find him frustrating at times but to me Martial is something like the glue to the forward line so my frustration is held back when no one is there because I understand what is missing in that team to get the best out of him when there's literally nothing to interlink.

Whilst Rashford was scoring goals for fun, Martial was doing very well for us - he wasn't average - he was consistent in that team and people were pretty shocked at Martials game play hidden behind Rashford's 2nd coming - talking about Martials ability to hold things together, his first touch, him pulling things out of the air like he was Peter crouch, him fooling people with little flicks and one twos and quick vision through balls. He was doing that for bloody ages. Never mind his goals.

Literally people were laughing at Lukaku's first touch & now 1 & half months later - people literally on this forum say that he doesn't have a good first touch. Do you know why? Because he has absolutely no one to interlink with - he was the glue to our forward line and now we don't have forwards all the defenders have to do is to flannel him out completely.

As I say it - Martial is a niche player & only some fans will support it because some just don't get what he does or why he does it. Some people just don't see why he wants to play so deep all the time and doesn't run to the box ( this is why the best managers in the world start their false 9's deepest of their strikers and not the furthest forward - asking them to press and drop deep like our manager does).

Tell me this - have you seen Martial's effort to run in to the box after making a quick one two pass? It's normally very quick and energetic compared to when he plays furthest forward and has dropped deep to make a pass and then make another run after that.

As an indication of our set up let me show you - why did we play (as shown by heat maps)

Martial
Rashford - - - - - - - - Greenwood​

​

Instead of

Rashford ------------ Greenwood
Martial

?​

It achieves the exact same thing but shows the difference in managerial quality between Pep& Klopp Vs Ole when using such a niche tactic like a false 9- using 433 vs a defensive 4231, an uneeded attacking midfielder on top of it, defensive tactics to cover the wide channels.

Rashford & Greenwood in the furthest forward wide attackers partnership would be beautiful to watch. They would be doing the wide pressing with Martial as a False 9 Pivot, doing the dribbling, some of the passing and hold up play whilst making quick runs after making his quick one twos in between the two wide clinical strikers which he always 100% does.

These are the little reasons why I'm not frustrated by Martial. I just feel like I get him.

Adding to this: Let's not forget that Rashford's play improved with Martial's return. In some sense, Rashford is just as much a niche player as Martial is. In fact, if you look at the Liverpool front three, they only work so very well because they all compliment each other. People laughed at Liverpool paying what they did for Firmino, but Klopp managed to maximize his abilities just like Salah's and Mane's. Solksjaer has the same task ahead of him with the trio of Rashford/Martial and whoever players next to them.

 

[theklr]

As others have said, I think that when he and Bruno gets a good run of games together I think it could be very well indeed.

And when Rashford is back we're looking at a really frigthening trio.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I always laugh when fans trash him during the game when we sit deep and he gets only few balls and it is on 30m from goal.
He is, at least for me, excellent modern striker. But he, like every other striker, needs team to create something for him and play attacking football. In our current game setup Lewa or Suarez wouldn't score much more than him.

 

[Wade3]

19 goals + assists in 27 starts is not poor, it's good numbers. He has played 2262 mins this season, so that's 119 mins per G+A.

Plus @ghaliboy points towards Rashford's production, who is sitting on 19 goals and 5 assists in 31 games in 2364 minutes. It's quite laughable the lengths people go to just to blatantly discredit Martial.

 

[JPRouve]

Fair enough, Rashford can blow pretty hot and cold himself, but imo the difference between his best and his worst is not that big. Also Rashford seems like a classic form player where he will be great and then hit a slump of 5-6 games where he plays really poorly.

With Martial though, he can go from great too diabolical from one game to the next.

Maguire and AWB are very consistent imo. AWB has always been horrible going forward but has a 8/10 defensive display pretty much every game. Fred since finsing his feet here have been the most consistent performer this season

I don't really know why you would think that. When out of form, he doesn't make runs, he gets easily frustrated, shoots at every opportunity and generally can't hit the target even if his life is on the line, his decision making is generally terrible. But when in form his extreme confidence means that he will be relentless and all his flaws become qualities, he makes speculative shots, makes runs after runs because he believes that he will score on all of them and he brings a fiery attitude to the side.

 

[roonster09]

Spoiler: PL Goal + assists list

Player	Apps	Mins	Goals	Assists	G+A
Kevin De Bruyne Manchester City, 28, M(CLR),FW	24(1)	2066	8	16	24
Jamie Vardy Leicester, 33, AM(L),FW	24	2103	17	4	21
Mohamed Salah Liverpool, 27, AM(CLR),FW	23	1980	14	6	20
Sergio Agüero Manchester City, 31, AM(CL),FW	15(5)	1266	16	3	19
Sadio Mané Liverpool, 27, AM(CLR),FW	21(2)	1815	12	6	18
Marcus Rashford Manchester United, 22, AM(LR),FW	22	1882	14	4	18
Raúl Jiménez Wolverhampton Wanderers, 28, FW	25(1)	2213	11	6	17
Son Heung Min Tottenham, 27, M(CLR),FW	20(1)	1750	9	7	16
Danny Ings Southampton, 27, AM(C),FW	21(5)	1808	15	1	16
Tammy Abraham Chelsea, 22, FW	23(1)	1925	13	3	16
Pierre Emerick Aubameyang Arsenal, 30, M(LR),FW	24	2125	15	1	16
Roberto Firmino Liverpool, 28, M(CLR),FW	24(2)	2163	8	7	15
Teemu Pukki Norwich, 29, AM(C),FW	25	2225	11	3	14
Gabriel Jesus Manchester City, 22, AM(LR),FW	13(9)	1294	9	4	13
Harry Kane Tottenham, 26, AM(C),FW	20	1780	11	2	13
Anthony Martial Manchester United, 24, AM(LR),FW	19(1)	1638	9	3	12
Dominic Calvert Lewin Everton, 22, AM(L),FW	19(5)	1656	11	1	12
Raheem Sterling Manchester City, 25, M(CLR),FW	22(1)	1935	11	1	12
Richarlison Everton, 22, AM(CLR),FW	24	2088	9	3	12
Trent Alexander Arnold Liverpool, 21, D(R),M(R)	25(1)	2280	2	10	12
Chris Wood Burnley, 28, FW	24	1947	10	1	11
Adama Traoré Wolverhampton Wanderers, 24, M(LR),FW	21(4)	1955	4	7	11
David Silva Manchester City, 34, M(CLR)	16(3)	1262	3	7	10
Bernardo Silva Manchester City, 25, M(CLR)	15(7)	1351	5	5	10
Harvey Barnes Leicester, 22, AM(CL)	18(6)	1495	4	6	10
Lys Mousset Sheffield United, 24, FW	10(13)	1020	5	4	9
Robert Snodgrass West Ham, 32, AM(CLR)	16(5)	1416	5	4	9
Nicolas Pépé Arsenal, 24, AM(R),FW	15(7)	1435	4	5	9
Gerard Deulofeu Watford, 25, AM(LR),FW	23(3)	1982	4	5	9
Daniel James Manchester United, 22, AM(LR),FW	23(2)	1995	3	6	9
Mason MountChelsea, 21, AM(C)	22(4)	2062	5	4	9
Anwar El Ghazi Aston Villa, 24, AM(LR),FW	20(3)	1629	4	4	8
Willian Chelsea, 31, AM(CLR)	20(5)	1820	4	4	8
Todd Cantwell Norwich, 21, AM(LR)	22(4)	1884	6	2	8
Christian Pulisic Chelsea, 21, M(CLR)	12(4)	1076	5	2	7
Sébastien Haller West Ham, 25, FW	22(2)	1943	6	1	7
John Fleck Sheffield United, 28, M(C)	23	2009	5	2	7
Jordan Ayew Crystal Palace, 28, AM(CLR),FW	25	2123	6	1	7
Troy Deeney Watford, 31, FW	14(1)	1266	5	1	6
Lucas Moura Tottenham, 27, AM(CLR),FW	16(8)	1458	4	2	6
Wesley Aston Villa, 23, FW	21	1790	5	1	6
Jorginho Chelsea, 28, DMC	21(3)	1862	4	2	6
John Lundstram Sheffield United, 26, DMC	22(3)	1970	4	2	6
James Ward ProwseSouthampton, 25, M(CR)	26	2340	4	2	6

His numbers are good, would have been even better if we had some creativity in the team and Rashford.

 

[romufc]

In our current game setup Lewa or Suarez wouldn't score much more than him.

When you have Lingard and Perreira playing, you are not going to get anything, have to make your own chances.

 

[Andycoleno9]

When you have Lingard and Perreira playing, you are not going to get anything, have to make your own chances.

I agree with that. But it is not just players around him. Our setup is too defensive. Watch closely situations when he gets the ball. He gets it on 30 m from goal( on the left or in the middle) and he has only one player for pass. Other players are too static. On the other hand if he is in penalty box or trying to beat offside trap he doesn't have support. How many chances we create for him? Not much

 

[roonster09]

I agree with that. But it is not just players around him. Our setup is too defensive. Watch closely situations when he gets the ball. He gets it on 30 m from goal( on the left or in the middle) and he has only one player for pass. Other players are too static. On the other hand if he is in penalty box or trying to beat offside trap he doesn't have support. How many chances we create for him? Not much

And one of the reason for that is relying on players like Pereira, Lingard, Mata. Obviously it's not just players, it's set up too but when you replace one of them with Bruno, you can see how much our game improved. When Rashford played as LW, you saw how well both played.

One of Lingard, Pereira, Mata starting brings the team down a level, when all of them start together, it's just unreal football experience.

 

[sherrinford]

I was just about to post this.



It's not that I don't agree to a degree, I do find him frustrating at times but to me Martial is something like the glue to the forward line so my frustration is held back when no one is there because I understand what is missing in that team to get the best out of him when there's literally nothing to interlink.

Whilst Rashford was scoring goals for fun, Martial was doing very well for us - he wasn't average - he was consistent in that team and people were pretty shocked at Martials game play hidden behind Rashford's 2nd coming - talking about Martials ability to hold things together, his first touch, him pulling things out of the air like he was Peter crouch, him fooling people with little flicks and one twos and quick vision through balls. He was doing that for bloody ages. Never mind his goals.

Literally people were laughing at Lukaku's first touch & now 1 & half months later - people literally on this forum say that he doesn't have a good first touch. Do you know why? Because he has absolutely no one to interlink with - he was the glue to our forward line and now we don't have forwards all the defenders have to do is to flannel him out completely.

As I say it - Martial is a niche player & only some fans will support it because some just don't get what he does or why he does it. Some people just don't see why he wants to play so deep all the time and doesn't run to the box ( this is why the best managers in the world start their false 9's deepest of their strikers and not the furthest forward - asking them to press and drop deep like our manager does).

Tell me this - have you seen Martial's effort to run in to the box after making a quick one two pass? It's normally very quick and energetic compared to when he plays furthest forward and has dropped deep to make a pass and then make another run after that.

As an indication of our set up let me show you - why did we play (as shown by heat maps)

Martial
Rashford - - - - - - - - Greenwood​

​

Instead of

Rashford ------------ Greenwood
Martial

?​

It achieves the exact same thing but shows the difference in managerial quality between Pep& Klopp Vs Ole when using such a niche tactic like a false 9- using 433 vs a defensive 4231, an uneeded attacking midfielder on top of it, defensive tactics to cover the wide channels.

Rashford & Greenwood in the furthest forward wide attackers partnership would be beautiful to watch. They would be doing the wide pressing with Martial as a False 9 Pivot, doing the dribbling, some of the passing and hold up play whilst making quick runs after making his quick one twos in between the two wide clinical strikers which he always 100% does.

These are the little reasons why I'm not frustrated by Martial. I just feel like I get him.

I’m not sure that works.

There’s another, more accurate, designation for the role Martial would play in your desired setup - a no.10. I think you have to ask yourself how that team is going to cope and achieve a stable shape, defensively. You really think that involving Martial in the midfield battle is more suitable than what he’s being asked to do from the centre forward position? Or, if you are proposing that he cheats, Rashford and Greenwood will be able to maintain higher positions? That you want all three of our attackers to merely be responsible for the opposition centre halves? What a mess. The positioning of Rashford (cheating, leaving the full back and joining Martial in pressing the central defenders, with James having more traditional responsibilities and - along with the no.10 - tasked with balancing the team shape) has probably been our biggest issue defensively this season. On the occasions where we have tried to be quite clever and have both wide men adopt a split position between full back and centre half simultaneously it has been a disaster (Arsenal).

The very idea behind a ‘false nine’ is that the central attacker starts as the furthest forward player, from the ‘no.9’ position.

 

[romufc]

I agree with that. But it is not just players around him. Our setup is too defensive. Watch closely situations when he gets the ball. He gets it on 30 m from goal( on the left or in the middle) and he has only one player for pass. Other players are too static. On the other hand if he is in penalty box or trying to beat offside trap he doesn't have support. How many chances we create for him? Not much

Yep. Also, I have heard Ole talking about practising attacking scenarios and patterns. I have not seen one attacking pattern repeated all season that leads to goal /chance.

Where are the one-twos in and around the box? non existent because our players want to take the extra touch.

 

[Bebestation]

Adding to this: Let's not forget that Rashford's play improved with Martial's return. In some sense, Rashford is just as much a niche player as Martial is. In fact, if you look at the Liverpool front three, they only work so very well because they all compliment each other. People laughed at Liverpool paying what they did for Firmino, but Klopp managed to maximize his abilities just like Salah's and Mane's. Solksjaer has the same task ahead of him with the trio of Rashford/Martial and whoever players next to them.

Yeah because people think Rashford is a left winger when in reality the positions he takes out due to the positions Martial free's up and plays balls to are a left shunted inverted centre forwards role - a role that Rashford couldn't do by himself.

I said this before - pre Bruno Fernandes, our forwards were creating chances for themselves. They literally were having to dribble at the defence, pass amongst themselves & Martial in the centre was important in that much more than people seem to notice.

Unfortunately for us James is right footed so after getting worn out he became unilateral in what he did and started crossing in to the box rather than act like the right hand side forward we needed until Greenwood is ready & now Rashford is Injured - 'woahla' there you have it Martial the false 9 is expected to be the one who leads the line by himself & be a 20+ goal season striker playing a poacher type football where he should be showing his hunger in the box.

Not only is their hardly any supply for that so he drops deep, its his natural game to drop deep in the first place as a deep lying CF.

Martial has carried United under Jose & different times & I hope he can do it here because if he does - it will really improve his game to be a bit more all rounded because he has probably only had a season amount of games as a CF at United +-10%.

 

[Bebestation]

I’m not sure that works.

There’s another, more accurate, designation for the role Martial would play in your desired setup - a no.10. I think you have to ask yourself how that team is going to cope and achieve a stable shape, defensively. You really think that involving Martial in the midfield battle is more suitable than what he’s being asked to do from the centre forward position? Or, if you are proposing that he cheats, Rashford and Greenwood will be able to maintain higher positions? That you want all three of our attackers to merely be responsible for the opposition centre halves? What a mess. The positioning of Rashford (cheating, leaving the full back and joining Martial in pressing the central defenders, with James having more traditional responsibilities and - along with the no.10 - tasked with balancing the team shape) has probably been our biggest issue defensively this season. On the occasions where we have tried to be quite clever and have both wide men adopt a split position between full back and centre half simultaneously it has been a disaster (Arsenal).

The very idea behind a ‘false nine’ is that the central attacker starts as the furthest forward player, from the ‘no.9’ position.

Im not sure I understand what you mean.

My understanding is that the false 9 drops deep to bring the CB's out of position.

But what I tried to show their is that according to heat maps that Ole has Martial as our furthest forward striker rather than ever being in any deeper areas whilst still trying to use him as some sort of a different type of false 9.

(I couldn't copy and paste any images of the heat maps from the article I was looking at about a particular match so I showed this in formation )

All I am pointing out is that -

Martial should be on heat maps deeper back than the furthest man forward in my opinion (whilst he is being allowed to play as a False 9, maybe he should be allowed to do it more freely) & to me Rashford & Greenwood could be the more attacking identity of the team than martial centrally much like Liverpool are.

In the Liverpool heat maps

Mane & Salah are not too wide & yet not too narrow and just slightly higher up than Firmino even though firmino is the number 9.

 

[Raven]

No one is hating him (i think?) but Martials problem is and has always been consistency, was very good yesterday and when he springs to life like the goal he scored yesterday he really shows his class.

Vs Burnely for example though, he was absolutely brutal and rightfully got slated. The problem with his imo is that the difference between his top level and bottom level is just massive and you never really know what you get with him. Personally i was thrilled when we shipped of Lukaku and gave the CF spot to Martial, but he needs to be more consistent over the course of the season

You make a good point, he was poor against Burnley and has been in some poor form lately. But that's exactly what it is, form. In a team that is inconsistent, form of each player is likely to be very streaky.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Adnan]

 

[Jonno]

He's struggled with a lack of service. He's also struggled WITH service. Liverpool miss, the miss at Chelsea before his goal. That's service, and they're routine chances missed, especially the Liverpool one.

But I am looking forward to seeing how he does with Bruno playing behind him.

He's doing well to score at the moment.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Took his goal well, didn't see much else from him. Hope it boosts his confidence.

 

[Adnan]

I would love to see him in a side coached by a Nagelsmann or Rose. Both coaches have a specific style that I believe would bring out the best in Martial who is a very technically gifted player. I'm also happy to see his goal contribution is good considering our struggles to open up deep defenses.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I’m not sure that works.

There’s another, more accurate, designation for the role Martial would play in your desired setup - a no.10. I think you have to ask yourself how that team is going to cope and achieve a stable shape, defensively. You really think that involving Martial in the midfield battle is more suitable than what he’s being asked to do from the centre forward position? Or, if you are proposing that he cheats, Rashford and Greenwood will be able to maintain higher positions? That you want all three of our attackers to merely be responsible for the opposition centre halves? What a mess. The positioning of Rashford (cheating, leaving the full back and joining Martial in pressing the central defenders, with James having more traditional responsibilities and - along with the no.10 - tasked with balancing the team shape) has probably been our biggest issue defensively this season. On the occasions where we have tried to be quite clever and have both wide men adopt a split position between full back and centre half simultaneously it has been a disaster (Arsenal).

The very idea behind a ‘false nine’ is that the central attacker starts as the furthest forward player, from the ‘no.9’ position.

If this is set up properly it works, but it isn't for us currently, IMO mainly because of our formation. The 4-2-3-1 makes it harder for a cheating winger, so if we simply played a 4-3-3, the wide midfielder would help the fullback defensively allowing Rashford or the RW to stay up occasionally. With 2 DM's and an AM, the shape is a lot more unstable if one of the DM's is pulled wide and the AM is clueless defensively.

We also don't use the touchline very well, because we don't shift smoothly and quickly from side to side. The effect of this is that as the ball is switched we just drop deeper and deeper which means eventually either the winger has to come back or opportunities will be created. A big reason for this is our no. 10 a lot of the times is unsure of who to mark/ close down, and thus our first line is broken easily and we just drop deeper to try and eliminate any gaps.

If we want to play 3 strikers it's possible, though they must of course track back to an extent. The key is being clever and efficient with it, and having a solid defensive structure. Our current setup with the no. 10 has not shown to be any of that, and it's especially bad since our no. 10 options have been shocking.

 

[romufc]

He's struggled with a lack of service. He's also struggled WITH service. Liverpool miss, the miss at Chelsea before his goal. That's service, and they're routine chances missed, especially the Liverpool one.

I don't think there is any striker out there who has a 100% chance conversion ratio. The reason all other strikers score so many is they get 3/4 chances a game. Martial gets 1/2

 

[Yagami]

He's struggled with a lack of service. He's also struggled WITH service. Liverpool miss, the miss at Chelsea before his goal. That's service, and they're routine chances missed, especially the Liverpool one.

But I am looking forward to seeing how he does with Bruno playing behind him.

He's doing well to score at the moment.

They were bad misses, but it's unbelievable how you're trying to spin this.

In that Liverpool game alone Mane and Salah both missed sitters, too. The difference is they actually get consistent service so they didn't, and don't in general, matter as much. Martial doesn't.

I don't think there is any striker out there who has a 100% chance conversion ratio. The reason all other strikers score so many is they get 3/4 chances a game. Martial gets 1/2

Exactly. They were poor misses, but every striker misses chances. The difference between a Martial and the other top forwards in the league is that they get chance after chance. Martial's lucky to get one a game, and if he doesn't take that one chance we're most likely screwed.

 

[Kappa123]

"Not enough service" funny how there was also not enough service when he was playing out wide as well. It's as if the 5 years of low-effort and missing sitters left and right just never happened. Now he's our star striker and criminally underrated, or something

 

[Jonno]

I don't think there is any striker out there who has a 100% chance conversion ratio. The reason all other strikers score so many is they get 3/4 chances a game. Martial gets 1/2

Thats true, good comment. I do look forward to seeing if he gets 4-5 good chances now we have Bruno.

 

[Relevated]

Thats true, good comment. I do look forward to seeing if he gets 4-5 good chances now we have Bruno.

Worth mentioning that martial gets 1/2 very very good chances.

 

[Jonno]

They were bad misses, but it's unbelievable how you're trying to spin this.

In that Liverpool game alone Mane and Salah both missed sitters, too. The difference is they actually get consistent service so they didn't, and don't in general, matter as much. Martial doesn't.


Exactly. They were poor misses, but every striker misses chances. The difference between a Martial and the other top forwards in the league is that they get chance after chance. Martial's lucky to get one a game, and if he doesn't take that one chance we're most likely screwed.

Yeah, but they're much better players than Martial, much better finishers, and much better goals to game ratios. They also create chances themselves, every game. Martial struggles to hold up the ball, struggles to break his neck to get onto chances. He needs it in to feet. So it's actually, and ironically quite unbelievable how you've tried to spin it.

 

[Jonno]

Worth mentioning that martial gets 1/2 very very good chances.

Some of that is down to his off-ball movement. He's not breaking his neck to get onto the end of crosses. He wants the ball in a very predictable way, on the edge or just inside the box on his right foot so he can step inside and finish in the far corner. Defenders can read this and predict it. Defenders can't predict Mane when he's coming inside the box.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Some of that is down to his off-ball movement. He's not breaking his neck to get onto the end of crosses. He wants the ball in a very predictable way, on the edge or just inside the box on his right foot so he can step inside and finish in the far corner. Defenders can read this and predict it. Defenders can't predict Mane when he's coming inside the box.

It's the other way around for me. We don't have a consistent way of creating chances, thus, the strikers can't anticipate when and how a chance is going to be created.

Using your example of Mane, he didn't score headers at all until Klopp started using the fullbacks as main chance creators, then he suddenly got very good at them. Because that's the style they use, and he can anticipate that kind of service. His headed goals before and after the change is night and day.

For us, it's all too random to really predict where the next assist will come from, especially vs parked buses. Makes it a lot harder for the strikers.

 

[Jonno]

Other way around for me. We don't have a consistent way of creating chances, thus, the strikers can't anticipate when a chance is going to be created.

Mane, for instance, didn't score headers at all until Klopp started using the fullbacks as main chance creators, then he suddenly got very good at them. Because that's the style they use, and he can anticipate that kind of service. For us, it's all too random to really predict where the next assist will come from.

How much more consistent can you get than playing on the counter most of the season, a tactic that's built for Martial?

Or as consistent as when Dan James gets the ball, beats his man, he always runs to the byline and puts the ball quickly, across the 6 yard line?

Why is it I can anticipate what Dan James is going to do, the rest of the fans can anticipate it, but Martial, our CF, leading the line? He hangs on the edge and lethargically runs into the box 5-10 yards behind the cross. I've probably seen that happen about 10 times this season. That would easily result in 7-8 more goals.