[edcunited1878]

His playstyle, work rate and woeful attitude are fitting of a club like Arsenal, not us. When some random from the footballing mecca Nigeria (no offense, love Ighalo) comes in and makes a mockery of your whole game in 5 minutes that's when you know...

Martial could have all the talent in the world and he still would be awful for Manchester United. He simply hasn't worked out, and we've given him more than enough time to sort his attitude and workrate.

His application isn't consistently high enough to be considered a true, top talent. But he's a very influential player for United and has his moments of magic which nobody can deny. Ighalo hasn't done anything in a United shirt to merit a comparison to Martial aside from he's a United fan since childhood. Crazy thing is Martial doesn't turn 25 until later this year, so he can still improve on a few things which is positive.

 

[Devil may care]

Isolated at times last night but didn't hold the ball up well enough and drifted left too often, great header for a vital goal though.

 

[tjb]

People really have forgotten what a good no.9 looks like. You can't be a good no.9 and forget about holding up the ball or making good runs.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

We care because it actually matters for the overall performance of the team. If a player puts in one of the worst performances on the pitch for the first 44min, loses the ball constantly, doesn't press etc then that will make it much harder for the team to win the game. I mean who would you rather have in your team, a prime Tevez who works his socks off and creates a few good chances for his team and scores one goal, or me who would lean against the post for 90min and score by being shot at to deflect the ball into the net? It shouldn't be a difficult choice, but if you only care about goals scored then you would have to say that I was just as good as Tevez.

I also don't get why it matters if you lose the ball due to a poor touch or if you lose it by simply being too weak physically, a lost ball is a lost ball.

But you are wrong because Martial didn't lose the ball constantly & he did press in that Chelsea game. He just didn't have much on the ball as often as the usual but still managed to score crucial and great goal, took his chance when he got it.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Sorry, but that is precisely what does happen with Martial. His hold up play is just woeful, which makes him entirely unsuited to being the focal point of the attack. If you want to see what a United striker should be capable of doing in terms of hold up play, check out some old footage of Mark Hughes.

The goal he scored from Wan-Bissaka's cross was excellent, but as the main striker he should be getting into that sort of position frequently, several times in a game. It's the type of goal, a header from a cross, that is the bread and butter of central strikers, but it's memorable in the case of Martial because we see it so rarely.

That's very untrue statement. One of the main strength in Martial compared to a lot of no 9 is actually his hold up play. In fact, he dropped a lot to hold the ball while defenders behind his back and bring others into play.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I hate this since he scored let’s forget the performance approach. Its a terrible way of seeking improvements and doesn’t help solve the problem of why his general play is declining as of late.

I think he isn’t trying as hard because he might be slightly injured. There was an occasion when we got a break with Williams and martial didn’t bother driving into the box fast as possible like he usually does. Mind you he was clutching his left thigh minutes before that. I also dont think our coaching staff are very good at running training sessions because there are too many injuries occurring as of late.

Give him break will ya. When he doesn't score, his hold up & general play are great, and people are moaning about him not scoring goals and ignore his general play. When he doesn't involve much, he scores like yesterday, and people like you are still moaning about it. Some people just can't be pleased at all.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Give him break will ya. When he doesn't score, his hold up & general play are great, and people are moaning about him not scoring goals and ignore his general play. When he doesn't involve much, he scores like yesterday, and people like you are still moaning about it. Some people just can't be pleased at all.

Or people don't think him doing half his job is good enough.

 

[wolvored]

Simply not consistant enough or good enough to get us back to the top. He will never score enough goals as he doesnt get involved enough. He is a periphery player and there are better strikers we could get. Goal aside he didnt do anything else. I would give Ighalo a run out, but now he got that goal he will be picked first.

 

[Irwin99]

17 goals and 8 assists in his first season, looks a pretty safe bet to surpass that this season. Yet, I still feel his first season was more exciting. I do feel we can upgrade in the summer.

 

[KennyBurner]

Give him break will ya. When he doesn't score, his hold up & general play are great, and people are moaning about him not scoring goals and ignore his general play. When he doesn't involve much, he scores like yesterday, and people like you are still moaning about it. Some people just can't be pleased at all.

give him a break? I’m his biggest fan on here. It also still doesn’t change the fact that performances matter whether or not he scored. It’s like how we used to praise lukaku for having dire performances while also scoring the 4th goal in game.

 

[mu4c_20le]

17 goals and 8 assists in his first season, looks a pretty safe bet to surpass that this season. Yet, I still feel his first season was more exciting. I do feel we can upgrade in the summer.

Yeah he was electric in his first season, then he became a dad. Just ask Rooney.

 

[Zlaatan]

But you are wrong because Martial didn't lose the ball constantly & he did press in that Chelsea game. He just didn't have much on the ball as often as the usual but still managed to score crucial and great goal, took his chance when he got it.

He did lose the ball quite a lot yesterday and he is by far the laziest presser out of all our forwards, just because he's involved in the press doesn't mean that he can't do it better. I think he is by far our best forward at holding up the ball but yesterday, first half especially, he had an absolute mare and was rightly called out for it.

And yes, he did score a great goal.

 

[sherrinford]

He did lose the ball quite a lot yesterday and he is by far the laziest presser out of all our forwards, just because he's involved in the press doesn't mean that he can't do it better. I think he is by far our best forward at holding up the ball but yesterday, first half especially, he had an absolute mare and was rightly called out for it.

And yes, he did score a great goal.

His hold up play was disappointing - Christensen kept getting around him and getting a toe on the ball even after Martial had managed to take the ball in. He needs to do better. His pressing doesn’t bother me at all though, in fact he’s probably the most intelligent presser of our most used forward players. James is our worst in this regard by a mile - he is absolutely clueless.

 

[Steerpike]

That's very untrue statement. One of the main strength in Martial compared to a lot of no 9 is actually his hold up play. In fact, he dropped a lot to hold the ball while defenders behind his back and bring others into play.

I have no idea what you've been watching!

When Martial receives the ball with his back to play, which is the very essence of hold up play, his first instinct seems to be to try to turn or roll the defender. As this is so predictable, it almost never works. What he needs to do is use his strength to keep a hold of the ball in spite of pressure from the defender, and pass it to a supporting player. I suggest you when you watch the next game you keep a tally of how many times Martial receives the ball under pressure in an advanced position, and how many times the team retains possession (i.e. either the ball is moved on to a team mate, or Martial himself has an attempt at goal). If it exceeds about 25%, Martial will have had his best game of the season.

 

[Bebestation]

Sorry, but that is precisely what does happen with Martial. His hold up play is just woeful, which makes him entirely unsuited to being the focal point of the attack. If you want to see what a United striker should be capable of doing in terms of hold up play, check out some old footage of Mark Hughes.

The goal he scored from Wan-Bissaka's cross was excellent, but as the main striker he should be getting into that sort of position frequently, several times in a game. It's the type of goal, a header from a cross, that is the bread and butter of central strikers, but it's memorable in the case of Martial because we see it so rarely.

Martial's first touch has been perfectly fine when he has players close by to hold the ball on to before making a pass.

How did you find his first touch when Rashford & Greenwood, Mctomminay were playing around him?

Ever since Rashford has been injured & Greenwood stopped playing in that setup - he has played with the likes of James & Mata - players who leaves him with absolutely no one to link up with. He tries to hold it up - all the defenders signal him out because James is in a completely different territory not playing as a forward that can interlink with passes so he looses it.

The only player Martial can even attempt to interlink with now is Bruno Fernandes & Fred - occasionally Williams. Nothing from another forward.

His first touch was one of the best thing about his game when he had the players around him playing in a close set up because he was one step ahead of everyone creating space for players like Rashford behind him - but now that's gone the defenders are one step in front of him because they mark him out the game.

His hold up play and first touch is good when he has other strikers to play off him.

When he's the only one he has absolutely no one who he passes off to - has absolutely no one who makes those runs close enough to him so he gets closed of & his lanes get cut off.


When someone like Ighalo plays - he doesn't give a cr*p about holding the ball and making passes for the forwards next to him - all he wants to do is wrestle his way past defenders & that's why Ighalo faces the front of goal when holding on to the ball whilst Martial usually has his back towards goal after a first touch - because he wants to bring someone else in to play as a support striker.

@UNITED ACADEMY

 

[MikeKing]

17 goals and 8 assists in his first season, looks a pretty safe bet to surpass that this season. Yet, I still feel his first season was more exciting. I do feel we can upgrade in the summer.

It was exciting because of the uncertainty and his huge talent. Back then he had that robotic feeling about him, that Messi thing where he just repeats certain things and it works every time. He has lost that bit of edge and his general play isn't that great. I've given up on him reaching Messi levels, so there is not really much excitement anymore but to be fair to Martial he is still better than his peers from that time like Dembele, Coman etc. Not a bad player to have around at all, I still love him but yeah, he shouldn't kick up a fuzz if he gets a tougher way into the first team in the future.

 

[Steerpike]

Martial's first touch has been perfectly fine when he has players close by to hold the ball on to before making a pass.

How did you find his first touch when Rashford & Greenwood, Mctomminay were playing around him?

Ever since Rashford has been injured & Greenwood stopped playing in that setup - he has played with the likes of James & Mata - players who leaves him with absolutely no one to link up with. He tries to hold it up - all the defenders signal him out because James is in a completely different territory not playing as a forward that can interlink with passes so he looses it.

The only player Martial can even attempt to interlink with now is Bruno Fernandes & Fred - occasionally Williams. Nothing from another forward.

His first touch was one of the best thing about his game when he had the players around him playing in a close set up because he was one step ahead of everyone creating space for players like Rashford behind him - but now that's gone the defenders are one step in front of him because they mark him out the game.

His hold up play and first touch is good when he has other strikers to play off him.

When he's the only one he has absolutely no one who he passes off to - has absolutely no one who makes those runs close enough to him so he gets closed of & his lanes get cut off.


When someone like Ighalo plays - he doesn't give a cr*p about holding the ball and making passes for the forwards next to him - all he wants to do is wrestle his way past defenders & that's why Ighalo faces the front of goal when holding on to the ball whilst Martial usually has his back towards goal after a first touch - because he wants to bring someone else in to play as a support striker.

@UNITED ACADEMY

Ighalo's very first contribution in a United shirt was to keep hold of a ball under pressure, then lay it off to a teammate. If Martial could do the same on a regular basis he'd cop a lot less flak on here.

 

[Bebestation]

Ighalo's very first contribution in a United shirt was to keep hold of a ball under pressure, then lay it off to a teammate. If Martial could do the same on a regular basis he'd cop a lot less flak on here.

And he has plenty times. No one complained about his first touch when he played as a support striker with strikers around him because he was holding on to the ball immensely well, great first touch, jumping at the ball - people were making fun of Lukaku when this was happening & he was literally orchestrating things in the middle of the park.

Do you not remember this when Rashford was banging in goals & Martial was doing 'well' for us or whatever people may call it - the first thing they pointed out was how he literally took 2 central defenders out the game due to his first touch before making a pass.

Now there is no strikers around him he is stuck with his habits of being a support striker with his back to goal & no one to lay the ball off to.

Ighalo isn't that, is a proper striker so holds of players with ease facing the goal much much more than Martial who does it facing with his back to goal, gets knocked off and fails.

 

[Steerpike]

And he has plenty times. No one complained about his first touch when he played as a support striker with strikers around him because he was holding on to the ball immensely well, great first touch, jumping at the ball - people were making fun of Lukaku when this was happening & he was literally orchestrating things in the middle of the park.

Now there is no strikers around him he is stuck with his habits of being a support striker with his back to goal & no one to lay the ball off to.

Ighalo isn't that, is a proper striker so holds of players with ease facing the goal much much more than Martial who does it facing with his back to goal.

The point I was making in my first post was that Martial was entirely unsuited to being the main striker largely because his hold up play was so poor. You seem to be agreeing.

I also suggested that people should seek out some old footage of Mark Hughes to see what great hold up play looked like. Sparky would have the ball coming in his general direction with a couple of defenders in close attendance, and would almost invariably get the ball under control, hold the defenders off, and calmly pass to a teammate (typically Sharpe or Kanchelskis). Now Mark Hughes was an absolute great in this regard, and I accept that not everyone can demonstrate this skill so adroitly, but it remains an essential part of the central strikers art. Alas, Martial just isn't very good at it.

 

[meamth]

I'm confused, why suddenly people are saying Martial can't hold the ball?

I've seen Lukaku, compared to that mess, he is significantly better.

You give the ball to Martial 8 out of 10 times he won't feck it up.

 

[Manowar]

Some of our fans are the most reactive ones in the world and have the memory of a 2 year old toddler. When a bit off form, elements of his game can be off in a certain game, such as his hold up against Chelsea. Normally it’s his strength alright.

 

[Aouer-United]

I'm confused, why suddenly people are saying Martial can't hold the ball?

I've seen Lukaku, compared to that mess, he is significantly better.

You give the ball to Martial 8 out of 10 times he won't feck it up.

Because they're suffering from Lukaku's first touch symptom. It gets to the point where touches must be perfect 10 out of 10 times.

 

[Bondi77]

The point I was making in my first post was that Martial was entirely unsuited to being the main striker largely because his hold up play was so poor. You seem to be agreeing.

I also suggested that people should seek out some old footage of Mark Hughes to see what great hold up play looked like. Sparky would have the ball coming in his general direction with a couple of defenders in close attendance, and would almost invariably get the ball under control, hold the defenders off, and calmly pass to a teammate (typically Sharpe or Kanchelskis). Now Mark Hughes was an absolute great in this regard, and I accept that not everyone can demonstrate this skill so adroitly, but it remains an essential part of the central strikers art. Alas, Martial just isn't very good at it.

Mark Hughes....What a player.
One of my all time favourites and a man who epitomised what a Manchester United player should be.

 

[TwoSheds]

End of the day, in his previous seasons he was scoring about 1 in 3 from LW, this season he's almost at 1 in 2 up front. He's doing ok but certainly not world class. More goals than Firmino, Moura though, similar numbers to Jesus, he's by no means useless. If he's ok with not being guaranteed his place then what's not to like?

 

[Kweku Amonoo]

Sorry, but that is precisely what does happen with Martial. His hold up play is just woeful, which makes him entirely unsuited to being the focal point of the attack. If you want to see what a United striker should be capable of doing in terms of hold up play, check out some old footage of Mark Hughes.

The goal he scored from Wan-Bissaka's cross was excellent, but as the main striker he should be getting into that sort of position frequently, several times in a game. It's the type of goal, a header from a cross, that is the bread and butter of central strikers, but it's memorable in the case of Martial because we see it so rarely.

Martial doesn’t have poor hold up play. It’s one of his biggest strengths.He’s just not in very good form atm. That’s all. No need to go over the top. Geez, United fans

 

[Sky1981]

End of the day, in his previous seasons he was scoring about 1 in 3 from LW, this season he's almost at 1 in 2 up front. He's doing ok but certainly not world class. More goals than Firmino, Moura though, similar numbers to Jesus, he's by no means useless. If he's ok with not being guaranteed his place then what's not to like?

Didn't we all been there with Jose? Him being played as backup? Doesn't turn out very well with most of us bashing Jose for "stiffing his progress"

 

[TwoSheds]

The obvious solution to that would be for you all to stop being complete ponces then.

 

[Volumiza]

We sacrificed a striker to play both Shaw and Williams and of course he will suffer when he has much less support. James being so poor now doesn't help things.

Fair comment and I said earlier that it will be interesting to see what AM does with the service that will no doubt be coming his way from Bruno. I'm not a huge Martial fan but I'm certainly not against him changing my mind for me.

 

[Hammondo]

That's very untrue statement. One of the main strength in Martial compared to a lot of no 9 is actually his hold up play. In fact, he dropped a lot to hold the ball while defenders behind his back and bring others into play.

He basically runs into corners and loses the ball.

 

[abk92]

I'm confused, why suddenly people are saying Martial can't hold the ball?

I've seen Lukaku, compared to that mess, he is significantly better.

You give the ball to Martial 8 out of 10 times he won't feck it up.

Did you not watch the game against Chelsea, he lost the ball nearly every time it was played to him. Ighalo came on for 4 minutes and held the ball up more than Martial did all game.

This guy is not good enough to be first choice striker at this club, should be a sub and if he isn't happy with that then we should sell him. He's a supposed striker who spends the majority of the game standing still outside the box.

He may have scored a good goal against Chelsea but that doesn't excuse his pathetic overall performance.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

He basically runs into corners and loses the ball.

Yea like I only remember twice when he lost the ball in that match. Revised my memory more where is this "constantly" came from.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I have no idea what you've been watching!

When Martial receives the ball with his back to play, which is the very essence of hold up play, his first instinct seems to be to try to turn or roll the defender. As this is so predictable, it almost never works. What he needs to do is use his strength to keep a hold of the ball in spite of pressure from the defender, and pass it to a supporting player. I suggest you when you watch the next game you keep a tally of how many times Martial receives the ball under pressure in an advanced position, and how many times the team retains possession (i.e. either the ball is moved on to a team mate, or Martial himself has an attempt at goal). If it exceeds about 25%, Martial will have had his best game of the season.

Well, looks like you are the one who needs to keep a tally on it. Because that's not the only thing he does of his hold up play. He also uses his strength to hold the ball in spite of pressure from defender and pass it to a supporting player when the option is available to him. The Martial you described is the Martial when he plays as LW not when he plays as striker this season.

 

[Steerpike]

Well, looks like you are the one who needs to keep a tally on it. Because that's not the only thing he does of his hold up play. He also uses his strength to hold the ball in spite of pressure from defender and pass it to a supporting player when the option is available to him. The Martial you described is the Martial when he plays as LW not when he plays as striker this season.

For some reason, this clip (from 28th August???) won't play, but I know there are instances from our two most recent games which demonstrate my point.

There was an interesting article on Martial on the Sky website - https://www.skysports.com/football/...still-struggling-to-fulfil-his-true-potential - which, while not specifically addressing the issue of his hold up play, did throw a light on some other issues affecting his performance. For me, the positional heat map is interesting, particularly the lack of presence in the box.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

For some reason, this clip (from 28th August???) won't play, but I know there are instances from our two most recent games which demonstrate my point.

There was an interesting article on Martial on the Sky website - https://www.skysports.com/football/...still-struggling-to-fulfil-his-true-potential - which, while not specifically addressing the issue of his hold up play, did throw a light on some other issues affecting his performance. For me, the positional heat map is interesting, particularly the lack of presence in the box.

There are two choices for you to do now,

1) You find a way to make the clip works for you to watch it, may be change platform that enable you to watch GIF.

OR

2) Start to keep tally on it from now on you watch United & getting rid whatever you think about Martial's hold up play now, because what you described is a Martial who plays on the left not a Martial who plays as a striker this season.

 

[Gasolin]

For some reason, this clip (from 28th August???) won't play, but I know there are instances from our two most recent games which demonstrate my point.

There was an interesting article on Martial on the Sky website - https://www.skysports.com/football/...still-struggling-to-fulfil-his-true-potential - which, while not specifically addressing the issue of his hold up play, did throw a light on some other issues affecting his performance. For me, the positional heat map is interesting, particularly the lack of presence in the box.

Mate, Martial is a different player in the false 9 position. He's being used there very smartly in my opinion. What he needs are players to link up with, and Rashford missing is an issue, but we will find a solution hopefully with Bruno, Scott, etc... Fred is also going to come and help him. Martial positional heat map is going to be very strange, because he's being asked in some games to attack the half space behind full backs to go and capture the ball and support our attack. In that position, the other players have to support him, and hopefully, a guy like Bruno will do that better.

 

[Bebestation]

Well, looks like you are the one who needs to keep a tally on it. Because that's not the only thing he does of his hold up play. He also uses his strength to hold the ball in spite of pressure from defender and pass it to a supporting player when the option is available to him. The Martial you described is the Martial when he plays as LW not when he plays as striker this season.

Don't bother. The hate started when the players around him became suppliers again like Mata & James instead of players likes Rashford & Greenwood/James who could use his hold up play as a False 9 player who linked up the on running wider forwards together. Everyone was complementing him about it & now there's no one to get that out of him - he struggles to do it because he gets completely marked out the game.

Mate, Martial is a different player in the false 9 position. He's being used there very smartly in my opinion. What he needs are players to link up with, and Rashford missing is an issue, but we will find a solution hopefully with Bruno, Scott, etc... Fred is also going to come and help him. Martial positional heat map is going to be very strange, because he's being asked in some games to attack the half space behind full backs to go and capture the ball and support our attack. In that position, the other players have to support him, and hopefully, a guy like Bruno will do that better.

This.

 

[VeevaVee]

Did really well for his goal. Could’ve easily been pushed wide but forced himself into a better position.

 

[Raven]

Good goal and game. Hopefully he's coming into form again.

 

[charlenefan]

Shame he was subbed, felt he had another goal in him

 

[Raven]

Shame he was subbed, felt he had another goal in him

Yeah, would have been nice but it was wise to bring him off and manage him properly.