[Dec9003]

He did really well to get on that loose ball and scored a nice goal.
He’s scored quite a few this season now, let’s hope he can keep it up until the end of the season.

 

[AshRK]

He has talent and there is no doubt in that but my issue with him is he blows hot and cold too often. There are times he goes on that goal scoring run and does well but then he goes missing for a month. I still think he will get a good numbers by the end of the season. But he has scope of improving even more.

 

[tenpoless]

Shame that He hit the post, would have been a great goal.

 

[flappyjay]

How much more consistent can you get than playing on the counter most of the season, a tactic that's built for Martial?

Or as consistent as when Dan James gets the ball, beats his man, he always runs to the byline and puts the ball quickly, across the 6 yard line?

Why is it I can anticipate what Dan James is going to do, the rest of the fans can anticipate it, but Martial, our CF, leading the line? He hangs on the edge and lethargically runs into the box 5-10 yards behind the cross. I've probably seen that happen about 10 times this season. That would easily result in 7-8 more goals.

A lot of those times Martial will come deep and release James. Is he supposed to then teleport to the 18 yard area. Also why is James blindly crossing, shouldn't he look up and then cut it back to the edge of the box?

 

[He'sRaldo]

How much more consistent can you get than playing on the counter most of the season, a tactic that's built for Martial?

Or as consistent as when Dan James gets the ball, beats his man, he always runs to the byline and puts the ball quickly, across the 6 yard line?

Why is it I can anticipate what Dan James is going to do, the rest of the fans can anticipate it, but Martial, our CF, leading the line? He hangs on the edge and lethargically runs into the box 5-10 yards behind the cross. I've probably seen that happen about 10 times this season. That would easily result in 7-8 more goals.

I mean, if you're trying to argue that we have a consistent way of creating chances then I just have to fundamentally disagree.

As for Dan James, that's not a style but an individual player's playstyle, which is how we play generally. As a bunch of individuals all doing their own thing. That's different from having a setup designed to create a certain kind of chance over and over again.

 

[Jonno]

A lot of those times Martial will come deep and release James. Is he supposed to then teleport to the 18 yard area. Also why is James blindly crossing, shouldn't he look up and then cut it back to the edge of the box?

The best strikers in world football know when to come deep and when to smell the goals. Dan James is creating a simple tap in, I'm sure players like Van Nistelrooy, Van Persie, Andy Cole and so on would love to run on to the end of a Dan James cross. Even Lukaku would get there.

 

[Jonno]

I mean, if you're trying to argue that we have a consistent way of creating chances then I just have to fundamentally disagree.

As for Dan James, that's not a style but an individual player's playstyle, which is how we play generally. As a bunch of individuals all doing their own thing. That's different from having a setup designed to create a certain kind of chance over and over again.

We literally have a counter attacking style. It's well documented and discussed. I don't really understand why you're ignoring this and claiming we don't have a style of attacking.

 

[bondsname]

Glad to see him scoring even when not performing at his highest level. He has done it for a while now, and while he can be a frustrating player to watch he always has a goal in him.

 

[He'sRaldo]

We literally have a counter attacking style. It's well documented and discussed. I don't really understand why you're ignoring this and claiming we don't have a style of attacking.

We sit back and wait for counterattacks, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we have a consistent way of creating chances while doing so. In fact, the chaotic nature of counters lends to that point, as there's no one way we generally counter, and the final ball is different in every case.

When we are tasked with breaking down a deep-lying defense, we can see the clear lack of coordination in our chance creation, and in such games we generally create at most 2 random chances, which isn't near enough to win the game.

 

[Jonno]

We sit back and wait for counterattacks, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we have a consistent way of creating chances while doing so. In fact, the chaotic nature of counters lends to that lack of chance creation.

Christ, do you want Martial to be handed goals on a platter?

He's our main striker getting all the game time, he's expected to score every week.

Claiming he shouldn't be criticised because "our consistency in creating goals" isn't consistent enough, is beyond me!

We play to his strengths, a counter attacking style of play. Sometimes we are forced to play high up against a low block, because teams sit deep. Every team have to face this. Not just Ole's United.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Christ, do you want Martial to be handed goals on a platter?

He's our main striker getting all the game time, he's expected to score every week.

Claiming he shouldn't be criticised because "our consistency in creating goals" isn't consistent enough, is beyond me!

We play to his strengths, a counter attacking style of play. Sometimes we are forced to play high up against a low block, because teams sit deep. Every team have to face this. Not just Ole's United.

Yes, I would love it if we created chances that consistently handed our strikers goals on a platter. Currently we don't. No need to get too worked up, if you disagree it's fair enough. I personally think creating around 2 chances per game isn't enough for us, and that goes for whichever striker we play.

And of course, I never claimed that he shouldn't be criticized. I just said that he gets very few chances because we create very few, as opposed to him being predictable off the ball.

 

[JPRouve]

Christ, do you want Martial to be handed goals on a platter?

He's our main striker getting all the game time, he's expected to score every week.

Claiming he shouldn't be criticised because "our consistency in creating goals" isn't consistent enough, is beyond me!

We play to his strengths, a counter attacking style of play. Sometimes we are forced to play high up against a low block, because teams sit deep. Every team have to face this. Not just Ole's United.

At the exception of the very best, basically Messi, Lewandowski, Ronaldo and Suarez no one has been expected to score every weeks. A very good return is a goal every other game and there isn't a lot of players doing that either.

 

[Quinzaine]

Or as consistent as when Dan James gets the ball, beats his man, he always runs to the byline and puts the ball quickly, across the 6 yard line?

Not sure what you've been watching at all mate. Daniel James has been poor for close to 3 months now, and if anything, a reliance on a player who looks unprepared technically having just made the jump up from the Championship, and an 18 year old in Greenwood to support Martial in the attacking third now that Rashford is out highlights how difficult a job Martial has.

 

[Quinzaine]

Christ, do you want Martial to be handed goals on a platter?

He's our main striker getting all the game time, he's expected to score every week.

Claiming he shouldn't be criticised because "our consistency in creating goals" isn't consistent enough, is beyond me!

We play to his strengths, a counter attacking style of play. Sometimes we are forced to play high up against a low block, because teams sit deep. Every team have to face this. Not just Ole's United.

Rashford played 7 games in Martial's absence from August to October, scoring 1 goal in that time which was a penalty vs Leicester. He looked awful for that period, not because he's a bad player but because he was surrounded by dross. Martial's return sparked Rashfords run of form and now that Rashford is out you're expecting Martial to do 'score every week', something Rashford failed to do for 6 weeks running. This isn't a post slandering Rashford, but instead im using him as a reference as to how difficult a situation the both of them are in when the other doesn't play.

P.S - you seem to have a rather peculiar definition of counter attacking. By peculiar I mean it's rather sad that you think the garbage we serve up can be characterized as a 'counter attacking style'

 

[Jonno]

Yes, I would love it if we created chances that consistently handed our strikers goals on a platter. Currently we don't. No need to get too worked up, if you disagree it's fair enough. I personally think creating around 2 chances per game isn't enough for us, and that goes for whichever striker we play.

And of course, I never claimed that he shouldn't be criticized. I just said that he gets very few chances because we create very few, as opposed to him being predictable off the ball.

But don't you see the top strikers in world football making something from nothing?

 

[Jonno]

Not sure what you've been watching at all mate. Daniel James has been poor for close to 3 months now, and if anything, a reliance on a player who looks unprepared technically having just made the jump up from the Championship, and an 18 year old in Greenwood to support Martial in the attacking third now that Rashford is out highlights how difficult a job Martial has.

Dan James has been awful for large periods. But he's still put the ball across the 6 yard box 8-10 times this season, requiring a poacher to tap it in.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

I m hoping Fernandes will fill some of the gap that Rashford has left by his absence. He will definitely create something for Martial and that would mean we are less predictable so others can chip in. Martials got the talent whether we have quality to support it is also the question!

 

[Jonno]

At the exception of the very best, basically Messi, Lewandowski, Ronaldo and Suarez no one has been expected to score every weeks. A very good return is a goal every other game and there isn't a lot of players doing that either.

So on that basis, you don't expect Martial to score against Watford?

Come off it mate.

 

[Jonno]

Rashford played 7 games in Martial's absence from August to October, scoring 1 goal in that time which was a penalty vs Leicester. He looked awful for that period, not because he's a bad player but because he was surrounded by dross. Martial's return sparked Rashfords run of form and now that Rashford is out you're expecting Martial to do 'score every week', something Rashford failed to do for 6 weeks running. This isn't a post slandering Rashford, but instead im using him as a reference as to how difficult a situation the both of them are in when the other doesn't play.

P.S - you seem to have a rather peculiar definition of counter attacking. By peculiar I mean it's rather sad that you think the garbage we serve up can be characterized as a 'counter attacking style'

It's quite funny you're criticising this current style of play. So why is it, Martial has not done it consistently for Ole, Jose, Van Gaal, Dechamps, Jardim? Why has his goals per game ratio always been roughly 1 in ever 4, throughout his career, with no drastic improvement?

 

[JPRouve]

So on that basis, you don't expect Martial to score against Watford?

Come off it mate.

I don't really see how you fail to undertand, it's a matter frequency, rare are the players that score on 1:1 basis and no one really expect that from anyone not named Messi or Ronaldo in their prime. What I expect from Martial is a higher frequency than most players and realistically it would be around 1 goal every 2 games over the length of a season. So no I don't expect him to score every weeks and I don't expect him to score during specific games.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

How much more consistent can you get than playing on the counter most of the season, a tactic that's built for Martial?

Or as consistent as when Dan James gets the ball, beats his man, he always runs to the byline and puts the ball quickly, across the 6 yard line?

Why is it I can anticipate what Dan James is going to do, the rest of the fans can anticipate it, but Martial, our CF, leading the line? He hangs on the edge and lethargically runs into the box 5-10 yards behind the cross. I've probably seen that happen about 10 times this season. That would easily result in 7-8 more goals.

Firstly, the notion that the counter attacking that's 'built for Martial' seems to be an argument you just 'built' from thin air, considering it doesn't seem to stem from anything we've actually seen and hence, known. Martial was excellent under LVG in a counter attacking system as well. Technically gifted players like him can clearly work in either. We aren't talking about somebody like Peter Crouch who can't work in some systems (possesion football).

Once we've established our counter attacking style isn't actually built for Martial that brings us to the important part - which is that it's how well your system works that determines whether your striker is consistently being delivered chances. Given we are clearly rather terrible at this, it's safe to say that all of our forwards - Whether Martial or Rashford - do no intact consistently get strong service.

And finally, the bit about James. Now I wish he was the fanatastic wideman who has been robbed of 10 extra assists but he's not. He started very well at the club but has been poor since. And his crossing is extremely overrated as well. As @JPRouve (I think) said, it's about picking your man, not hitting it in a generally decent area. I hope James plays a solid squad role for us over the years but he's got a lot of work to do and his right flank has been our weak area.

 

[Majima]

So why is it, Martial has not done it consistently for Ole, Jose, Van Gaal, Dechamps, Jardim? Why has his goals per game ratio always been roughly 1 in ever 4, throughout his career, with no drastic improvement?

15/16 (LVG) 18G + 11A in 4,663 mins = contribution every 160 mins / 1.8 games. [Only Goals = per 259 mins / 2.9 games]

16/17 (Jose) 8G + 8A in 2,517 mins = contribution every 157 mins / 1.7 games. [Only Goals = per 314 mins / 3.5 games]

17/18 (Jose) 11G + 9A in 2,337 mins = contribution every 116 mins / 1.3 games. [Only Goals = per 212 mins / 2.3 games]

18/19 (Jose) 12G + 3A in 2,327 mins = contribution every 155 mins / 1.7 games [Only Goals = per 193 mins / 2.1 games]

19/20 (Ole) 14G + 5A in 2,262 mins = contribution every 119 mins / 1.3 games. [Only Goals = per 161 mins / 1.8 games]

Total Average = 63G + 36A in 14,106 mins = contribution every 142 mins or 1.57 games overall.

If you just want to count goals, he has averaged a goal every 223 mins/2.5 games overall here.

Taken into account he spent 3 years under Jose frozen out on the wing, to mainly provide for Lukaku, his return is actually quite impressive.

This season, being provided by one of the worst creative forces in United's history, he is averaging a goal under 2 games currently.

This season overall, He's averaging a goal or assist every 120 mins. That's an immense return considering the amount of long term injuries to key players within our short squad, and how dysfunctional we have been throughout.

His record matches up against many currently acknowledged top players at the same age. Son, Griezmann are just two who had similar records at the same age, whilst playing more minutes each season also. You would be surprised.

Under the right guidance & management, he's not that far off imo.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

It's quite funny you're criticising this current style of play. So why is it, Martial has not done it consistently for Ole, Jose, Van Gaal, Dechamps, Jardim? Why has his goals per game ratio always been roughly 1 in ever 4, throughout his career, with no drastic improvement?

This post is a mess.

So his goal to game ratio is 1 in 4 throughout his career, yet this season he's been getting 1 goal every 2 games.

And then you say there's been no drastic improvement?

 

[matherto]

If he gets 20 this season I'm fine with that.

 

[MadMike]

Jonno is probably on an epic wum and everyone is biting

 

[Borussia Teeth]

He's a quality player. One of the few that we actually have in the squad. Yes, he may be frustrating at times but if he had better players around him, then I think he would be more consistent. Hopefully Bruno can help with this

 

[ghaliboy]

Plus @ghaliboy points towards Rashford's production,

Yes, I said a "Rashford like tear" when he went on an 11 in 12 run. If Martial goes on some kind of Rashford-like tear his numbers go into an acceptable zone and it becomes a much more stable season or him to build on next year. As it stands now, without sycophantically trying in desperation to make his numbers look better by combining them with assists, restricting it to starts. I don't need to delude myself on the issue, 14 in 30 is unacceptable and he needs to be better next season. Incremental growth is fine if he is a fringe player or a squad guy but he's the main man on huge money. The excuses don't wash anymore.

 

[Yagami]

"Not enough service" funny how there was also not enough service when he was playing out wide as well. It's as if the 5 years of low-effort and missing sitters left and right just never happened. Now he's our star striker and criminally underrated, or something

It's pretty much fact that our forwards - whether they are up front, on the left, or the right - have been feeding off scraps since 12/13 when Carrick was providing tasty ball after tasty ball.

Yeah, but they're much better players than Martial, much better finishers, and much better goals to game ratios. They also create chances themselves, every game. Martial struggles to hold up the ball, struggles to break his neck to get onto chances. He needs it in to feet. So it's actually, and ironically quite unbelievable how you've tried to spin it.

You say that but how good of a goalscorer were they both prior to being in one of the best functioning teams in the world? You underestimate how important that is as, again, you're too busy spinning things into a negative, which is a shame.

 

[Wade3]

Yes, I said a "Rashford like tear" when he went on an 11 in 12 run. If Martial goes on some kind of Rashford-like tear his numbers go into an acceptable zone and it becomes a much more stable season or him to build on next year. As it stands now, without sycophantically trying in desperation to make his numbers look better by combining them with assists, restricting it to starts. I don't need to delude myself on the issue, 14 in 30 is unacceptable and he needs to be better next season. Incremental growth is fine if he is a fringe player or a squad guy but he's the main man on huge money. The excuses don't wash anymore.

Acceptable? If he goes on such a tear, he‘d be amongst the league‘s topscorers and that is in a team with rather poor offensive service. Expectations should be realistic.

That aside, of course do minutes played (and with that starts because usually starters play more) matter. If a player plays 15 games but only 30 minutes per, he obviously has much less of a chance to score than a player who plays 90 minutes per game in the same amount of games. Hence, it‘s not a way of inflating his stats but rather using basic logic when comparing his numbers to those of others in order to properly judge his productivity if you just want to judge it based on raw numbers which in itself is quite simplistic.

Assists also do matter and don‘t inflate numbers but rather add to the picture. Just look at a guy like Firmino whose value as a striker is determined by so much more than just goals.

With all that being said, numbers hardly ever tell the full story of a player‘s impact. But debating down that path is a pointless exercise.

 

[ghaliboy]

Acceptable? If he goes on such a tear, he‘d be amongst the league‘s topscorers and that is in a team with rather poor offensive service. Expectations should be realistic.

We're talking about across all competitions. 9 in 20 in the league is probably closer to an average output for a main striker but probably unacceptable in terms of an output for a team who should be challenging for a title (even without the abnormal mutant season Liverpool has had.. and I don't care about comparing to Firminho.) Talking about expectations if you're a player who is collection 200+ biks a week the expectation should be judged on a much stricter scale than the level that he probably currently is. It is more worrying that excuses are being made and ramping up when we're watching a player who is a full senior and critical player making small incremental fundamental increases in his all-round game. Food for thought on that one.

There is nothing wrong with looking over his body of work and making an observation in that this season has been unacceptable and worrying that we've barely seen any fundamental increases that look like he's fitting into a role such as this. He has ranged from "he's hard to watch and I don't know if I can watch it anymore" with a dash of "okay this looks like he's going somewhere with his progression" especially when you look at a goal like that header against Chelsea. You then have people coming out and saying "he has this in his locker" he absolutely doesn't have that in his locker and it is pretty much the only time in four years he's scored a goal like this, which tells it's own story. Agreed that you're correct that the service has been a legitimate issue (poor) from the time Fergie retired, the only time it has legitimately looked functional was Lukaku's first season.

Excuses were fine when he was still raw and on a wage relative to his stature and I don't blame him absolutely snatching the bag we offered him. I would see this season more as a platform to put a few things into the bag and build on for next season and I'm okay with that. If you're learning from a guy like Ole then you're probably with one of the best strikers who ever played in the box in the Premier League.

 

[MadMike]

Yes, I said a "Rashford like tear" when he went on an 11 in 12 run. If Martial goes on some kind of Rashford-like tear his numbers go into an acceptable zone and it becomes a much more stable season or him to build on next year. As it stands now, without sycophantically trying in desperation to make his numbers look better by combining them with assists, restricting it to starts. I don't need to delude myself on the issue, 14 in 30 is unacceptable and he needs to be better next season. Incremental growth is fine if he is a fringe player or a squad guy but he's the main man on huge money. The excuses don't wash anymore.

Weren’t half the goals in Rashford’s “tear” penos? It Martial had taken those and had 3-4 more league goals from penos would that suddenly make his tally great and him the second coming of Jesus? There’s nothing wrong with looking over the body of work of either and not really finding significant differences like you suggest. On the contrary.

He’s 3 or so goals lower than where he should be for the minutes played although the shit midfield and lack of chance creation is a hard mitigating factor as far as I am concerned. Our recruitment strategy is improved, so I expect to see him improve his goals tally next season accordingly. If not we’ll talk then. If he can get a goal every ~130 minutes that would be very good for someone who doesn’t take penos.

 

[Majima]

Weren’t half the goals in Rashford’s “tear” penos? It Martial had taken those and had 3-4 more league goals from penos would that suddenly make his tally great and him the second coming of Jesus? There’s nothing wrong with looking over the body of work of either and not really finding significant differences like you suggest. On the contrary.

He’s 3 or so goals lower than where he should be for the minutes played although the shit midfield and lack of chance creation is a hard mitigating factor as far as I am concerned. Our recruitment strategy is improved, so I expect to see him improve his goals tally next season accordingly. If not we’ll talk then. If he can get a goal every ~130 minutes that would be very good for someone who doesn’t take penos.

He has 14 goals + 5 assists in 2,262' so far. Thats an under 1 in 2 goals record (1.8 games) & ga ~ 119 mins (1.3 games).

Griezmann has 13 goals + 4 assists in 2626' this season (ga ~ 154 mins), Aubameyang has 17 goals + 1 assist in 2411' (ga ~ 133 mins), Morata has 10 goals + 2 assists in 2072' (ga ~ 172 mins)...

Yes his return can improve, but he's doing just fine this season considering. People need to chill out.

 

[MadMike]

He has 14 goals + 5 assists in 2,262' so far. Thats an under 1 in 2 goals record (1.8 games) & ga ~ 119 mins (1.3 games).

Griezmann has 13 goals + 4 assists in 2626' this season (ga ~ 154 mins), Aubameyang has 17 goals + 1 assist in 2411' (ga ~ 133 mins), Morata has 10 goals + 2 assists in 2072' (ga ~ 172 mins)...

Yes his return can improve, but he's doing just fine this season considering. People need to chill out.

I’m chill, but his return should improve.

Looking at the EPL stats alone there’s a few players with better mpg than Martial in the league like Danny Ings, Tammy Abraham and Dominic Calvert-Lewin who arguably have performed better than him as well and without any pens buffing their stats either. Martial should really be beating those considering how good he is considered, the club he plays for and the salary bracket he is in. Whereas I wouldn’t expect him to outperform players like Harry Kane, Agüero, Vardy and Auba just yet.

A main striker for Man Utd that wants to be considered good enough for the job should be in the first 5-6 strikers in the league in mpg without pens. Unless a) the rest of our team is shit or b) he is playing like Firmino, being the conduit for the other players scoring more. Martial certainly doesn’t fit the b) scenario but our team is shit so he gets a pass for this season. And I think he’s done alright and isn’t the problem here.

Whatever with think of Ole as a manager or person, the recruitment strategy seems to have improved considerably under him. We’re now a couple of transfers away from having a good starting XI and a good supporting crew for Martial. So I would expect him to improve his mpg down to 130-140 for next season, which equals around 20 goals in an EPL season where he gets to play 30 full games. That’s an entirely reasonable expectation.

For reference, if he had scored 3 more league goals (12 instead of 9) he would be within that mpg range, something he probably could have achieved from this season were it not for injuries to Pogba and Rashford. It is still a 33% improvement on his current output though and not easy to achieve.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Anthony Martial scores again.

 

[Volumiza]

What a goal!

 

[bosnian_red]

Good performance but the goal was brilliant. Great to see him on a bit of a goal run.

 

[Yagami]

Who's that man with the short sleeves and gloves? Martiaaaal, Martiaaaal

 

[Kag]

Scoring when you’re playing poorly is a good sign.

 

[arnie_ni]

Great goal but he really should have been tapping in greenwoods cross at the back post. So frustrating that he can do simple things like make a 5 10 metre sprint and score a sitter.

Has so much talent

 

[Machine Elements]

I was planning to write this after Club Brugge game but was too lazy to do it so will do now :

Don't care about stats or what anyone says about Martial, this guy definitely should be our no 9 going forward. He's certainly starting 11 quality and seeing Rashford made LW his position this season, he should be our no 9. One of the rare good things Ole's done since becoming manager is getting rid of Lukaku and believing Martial as a 9. His finishing is class so is his all round game unlike Lukaku. He has every tool to be a top 9 and we should be looking to improve the service to him by getting a proper RW firstly.

Actually both Rashford & Martial are the definitions of a player who needs proper coaching to get to the next level. Rashford has somewhat made it this season but I think they'd both be much better in a good coached team.