[Enigma_87]

How many of the players do you believe to be arsed?

And if we're assessing people over limited timeframes, how many flair players have done well for Mourinho since he went back to Chelsea? I can only think of one, and even he ended up downing tools.

Hazard's best season came under Mourinho. Willian didn't look too bad either. Fabregas had one of his best seasons lately under Mourinho.

It's a lame excuse. You can see Sanchez busting his guts even things aren't going well. Rashford is also trying his best to get into the team. Martial on the other hand seems like he's privileged and should be guaranteed starting spot.

 

[3KDré]

Looks like he might've been right to think he'd outlast Mourinho.

 

[spiriticon]

Ooops. fecked up his chance. Again.

 

[jungledrums]

He's absolutely shite.

One good dribble and fans on here getting excited. Shows how far we've sunk.

Arnautovic was twice the player he was and is. Martial can't hold up the ball, his first touch is heavy, no aggression, no movement, one trick pony finishes and crosses.

No. This is blatantly false. All comparisons are relative - Martial wasn’t good today, but he wasn’t deserving of singling out from Mouriho, or subbing. On a day of pathetic performances, he was probably among the ‘best’ of a very bad bunch.

 

[Enigma_87]

Tactics- I dont think Martial is Lazy; if you do then that is fine. However - if a player is put in a position of a team that enables to get the best out of him for a full season in their attacking position - then i expect their defensive game to improve also.

Jose wants defensive ability prior to attacking ability. Someone who is placed to do defensive work- hinders their attacking positioning. It is not the same the other way around.

I could see Martial being a much better high presser off the ball than someone who drops off and marks someone - its better suited to his style of play & thats the main problem - Jose is to forceful to his own style of play rather than adapting his game to the players at his disposal.

TBH never seen him track back on consistent basis, press up field or help the midfield/defence. Even under LvG. Everybody bar Messi and Cristiano are required to do some work. It's how it is in modern football. Martial shouldn't be exempted from that.

 

[CA1]

No. This is blatantly false. All comparisons are relative - Martial wasn’t good today, but he wasn’t deserving of singling out from Mouriho, or subbing. On a day of pathetic performances, he was probably among the ‘best’ of a very bad bunch.

Who else was he going to bring off? We needed changes.

We hadn't scored for the 70 minutes he was on, it's hardly ludicrous to sub him off.

 

[jungledrums]

Who else was he going to bring off? We needed changes.

We hadn't scored for the 70 minutes he was on, it's hardly ludicrous to sub him off.

How about Lukaku? Matic? Fellaini? The first two were utterly dreadful today. Both Pogba and Martial were less deserving of substitution than they were today.

 

[Cassidy]

Who else was he going to bring off? We needed changes.

We hadn't scored for the 70 minutes he was on, it's hardly ludicrous to sub him off.

Fellaini? Lukaku?

 

[CA1]

Fellaini? Lukaku?

History tells us Fellaini and Lukaku are far more likely to get us an important goal than Martial is.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

History tells us Fellaini and Lukaku are far more likely to get us an important goal than Martial is.

Only because of the way we play. Martial isn’t exactly going to be powering headers in off hoofball tactics. Silly to judge him on that.

 

[Cassidy]

History tells us Fellaini and Lukaku are far more likely to get us an important goal than Martial is.

Martial looked more dangerous than both in the game. I don't think he played well, I don't think any of them did. But he did make some things happen.

 

[CA1]

Martial looked more dangerous than both in the game. I don't think he played well, I don't think any of them did. But he did make some things happen.

Fellaini was the most dangerous out of those 3 by a mile actually. How Fabianski kept that out I'll never know.

Lukaku was terrible today and yes would have deserved subbing but he scores goals and will do consistently in his career. Martial has no consistent quality at all and isn't actually a good player so it's not controversial to bring him off at all.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

TBH never seen him track back on consistent basis, press up field or help the midfield/defence. Even under LvG. Everybody bar Messi and Cristiano are required to do some work. It's how it is in modern football. Martial shouldn't be exempted from that.

I saw fine in his last 3 games - his off the work movement has been great. Today it wasnt that good but neither was I paying attetntion to it because there was a severe imbalance between playing a defensive defence, a defensive midfield and no attacking midfield with 2 strikers upfront. Martial playing more defensive was not what was needed; neither was he making runs behind the defence when there was no AM to play the through balls with fellaini and matic at CM.

His last 3 games before that he has been defensively fine. I see Martial as a false 9 anyway - inbetween 2 strikers like Rashford & sanchez. That gives him a free attacking position and a defensive duty to be the furthest forward and add pressure on to the central defender when not having the ball - or falling back to recieve the ball; which he can do better than asking him to focus on the RW and the RB of the opposite team when attackingly he is rubbish as a LW anyway - why expect something amazingly defensively either.

If he fails under the next manager then so be it - he can go off; but rather than moan about him - there are bigger issues at the club like the lack of a unit, the lack of a playing style. Once i see that happening - we can decide if Martial is good enough attackingly or defensively. when we play like individuals - I do not honestly care to individually rate players on their habits.

 

[Enigma_87]

Martial looked more dangerous than both in the game. I don't think he played well, I don't think any of them did. But he did make some things happen.

Lukaku has scored 4 goals this season. Fellaini is more likely to score a goal from all the crosses in the box that were likely to occur in the last 20-30 mins.

Martial's last goal in the league was 8 months ago or so..

 

[Cassidy]

Lukaku has scored 4 goals this season. Fellaini is more likely to score a goal from all the crosses in the box that were likely to occur in the last 20-30 mins.

Martial's last goal in the league was 8 months ago or so..

Martial last goal for United was in his last 2 starts?

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Lukaku has scored 4 goals this season. Fellaini is more likely to score a goal from all the crosses in the box that were likely to occur in the last 20-30 mins.

Martial's last goal in the league was 8 months ago or so..

That's due to our main attackers being Fellaini and Lukaku due to again - Jose's tactics.

 

[Enigma_87]

Martial last goal for United was in his last 2 starts?

That doesn't change the fact he hasn't scored in the league since January...

That's due to our main attackers being Fellaini and Lukaku due to again - Jose's tactics.

No argument there, but still his creative input isn't great regardless of those tactics.

 

[Yagami]

A bit random but the more I watch him play, the more he reminds me of Nasri.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

I am not his biggest fan but having a lump of a player like Lukaku next to him and support of McTominay, ashley young and big technician Fellaini to combine when parking the bus wont do him any favours. He was a beast under Van Gaal and I think he could be used there again, he's not a striker in a disjointed team, he should play from the left if anything..

 

[Cassidy]

That doesn't change the fact he hasn't scored in the league since January...
.

Wonder why, anyway my point really was that he was offering something so I don't think it was a good sub.

 

[Enigma_87]

Wonder why, anyway my point really was that he was offering something so I don't think it was a good sub.

Yeah, but again it was more likely Lukaku or Fellaini to contribute more in front of the goal. Our tactics seemed to go through the right channel more and Ashley Young anyway.

Doesn't make it right of course, mind.

 

[spiriticon]

We can blame everybody else for Martial's shortcomings but the one conclusion we can come to is that he isn't uniquely talented enough to spearhead the attack on his own at a big club when everybody else is having a bad game. He just isn't outstanding. He's one on the masses of average players at our club. Not bad, just average.

 

[IrishGlen]

Without commenting on his individual performance today, I still think he deserves that run of 4-5 games. He should start against Valencia.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Hazard's best season came under Mourinho. Willian didn't look too bad either. Fabregas had one of his best seasons lately under Mourinho.

It's a lame excuse. You can see Sanchez busting his guts even things aren't going well. Rashford is also trying his best to get into the team. Martial on the other hand seems like he's privileged and should be guaranteed starting spot.

They may run around like headless chickens but they haven't been any more effective than Martial anyway. Most of the time they're running round after balls they've given away.

If i was Sánchez, earning 500k a week for stinking the place out, I'd probably run around a bit and wave my arms for the cameras as well. It's clearly enough to fool a large section of our fanbase it seems.

 

[Adisa]

Was shit but only attacker that looked dangerous. I don't know how anyone can camp in this thread having a go. Not a single player at this club looks like a footballer.

 

[jungledrums]

Was shit but only attacker that looked dangerous. I don't know how anyone can camp in this thread having a go. Not a single player at this club looks like a footballer.

Agreed.

 

[Ban]

I am not his biggest fan but having a lump of a player like Lukaku next to him and support of McTominay, ashley young and big technician Fellaini to combine when parking the bus wont do him any favours. He was a beast under Van Gaal and I think he could be used there again, he's not a striker in a disjointed team, he should play from the left if anything..

Majority of the time he was played on the left anyway.

 

[Member 109952]

Just got back from the game - was sat on the half way line on Martial's side so got to follow him for a lot of the match.

I've got to say, for an attacking player Martial is absolutely dreadful at making runs and his work rate is absolutely abysmal. There was once in the second half that Zabeleta pushed up, leaving the left side completely open. Martial was on the half way line, Pogba had the ball, but Martial literally just jogged about whilst all the space in front of him was free. He could've made a sprint forward - opening up space - but didn't. It happened numerous times throughout the game - he could've made runs or sprinted to join the attack, but just chose not to. Comparatively Felipe Anderson was getting up and down the right touch line at speed - providing West Ham with a useful outlet.

He's a decent dribbler, as we saw today in one or two spells, but as an attacking player he's woefully inadequate. Has no one told him to make runs? Does he not see that weakness in his game? Imo his close control flatters to deceive, because quite frankly, he's as flawed as the rest of our wide attacking players. Can't believe it but watching him today actually made me want to see Sanchez again, and he's been dreadful for us.

 

[Sayros]

Hazard's best season came under Mourinho. Willian didn't look too bad either. Fabregas had one of his best seasons lately under Mourinho.

It's a lame excuse. You can see Sanchez busting his guts even things aren't going well. Rashford is also trying his best to get into the team. Martial on the other hand seems like he's privileged and should be guaranteed starting spot.

Yeah, and I'm sure your own negative bias as something to do with that perception. 'Seems like he's privileged', the guy has come back from third string twice so far in his career at United after being the leading scorer his first season. The whole point of Sanchez busting a gut is overplayed and just lazy, because he's busting a gut going after all the balls he easily loses in the first place, some of them right in the middle of the pitch. Martial is a much better player than what Sanchez has shown. The fact that Martial has come back to being a starter twice in different seasons under Mourinho when we clearly see how petty Mourinho is with him shows he's anything but entitled or privileged.

Regardless of his performance today, he needs to be allowed to play through the bad games like every one else, because he has far more upside than what we've seen with Sanchez through his months of bad performances.

I'm just glad Mourinho is sinking further into his hole, and that Martial won't have to deal with him for much longer. The man is a cancer on this team and it's high time to remove the tumor.

 

[Dante]

Martial might not be great at football but he's fecking brilliant at hide-and-seek.

 

[Sayros]

Out of a terrible bunch of players, he was in the middle. He's definitely a player that is due for a run of games, and before this game I saw a player with more energy, making more runs off the ball, and creating danger with his chances. He's reverted back to a bit of a lazier performance but at this point it becomes irrelevant because the entire team is just a complete mess. The fact is, the players have tuned Mourinho out and he's never going to get consistent performances from anybody. Martial, and the rest of this team, deserve a proper manager to give them a proper environment to work in, and Martial needs to persevere through the bad games without falling back into the bench role for a guy like Sanchez who is absolute shite.

The one good thing is that Martial will outlast Mourinho, and soon enough this will all just be a distant memory. His sacking can't come soon enough.

 

[ash_86]

He manages to beat the player and get into the box only to put in a worst cross. Such a frustrating player. I'd pick Rashford for him any day of the week.

 

[cyberman]

He manages to beat the player and get into the box only to put in a worst cross. Such a frustrating player. I'd pick Rashford for him any day of the week.

I hate it when fans see that and claim he's playing well. Rashford receives the same praise for failing to create a chance.

 

[ash_86]

I hate it when fans see that and claim he's playing well. Rashford receives the same praise for failing to create a chance.

Thats because his fanboys still thinks his career was sabotaged by arrival of Sanchez. The real fact is in the years he's been there , he hasn't improved an iota. Rashford isn't far behind either. Both needs to improve massively to claim starting spots.

 

[Sayros]

Thats because his fanboys still thinks his career was sabotaged by arrival of Sanchez. The real fact is in the years he's been there , he hasn't improved an iota. Rashford isn't far behind either. Both needs to improve massively to claim starting spots.

Neither needs to improve much if Sanchez is their competition. As long as Mourinho is in charge, you could get Messi in this team and he will be useless.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

He manages to beat the player and get into the box only to put in a worst cross. Such a frustrating player. I'd pick Rashford for him any day of the week.

Yes because Martial has always been a crosser

Rashford & Martial need to play upfront as forwards - forget about crossing; play balls on the floor - not crossing to a lump like Lukaku.
Let Sanchez play behind them as a false 9. Let them all rotate and bring Lukaku on when we need an extra man upfront.

Play them as forwards- if Martial fails as a forward in a team that enables forwards to play together then sell him. I see no use in giving him that much negativity when he is made to play in positions and do things that get the best out of no one.

Him playing on the left wing and Lukaku playing in the centre like Drogba's cousin is not good for him nor martial, nor the CM or AM that plays there. There is a lack of cohesion because Jose has never cared about that - for that reason having a go at individual players is wrong under a manager who has them all playing as individuals.

Next manager & we can have a go at everybody.

 

[ash_86]

Neither needs to improve much if Sanchez is their competition. As long as Mourinho is in charge, you could get Messi in this team and he will be useless.

So Messi would chose the wrong option every single time in the opposition box? Grow up ffs.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Neither needs to improve much if Sanchez is their competition. As long as Mourinho is in charge, you could get Messi in this team and he will be useless.

It's true- Messi's would never have played as a false 9 under him - only ever given a role to cut in and shoot or on the opposite side to keep width and cross to a target man. Never would have Suarez, neymar and Messi played together - never would Villa, Messi, Pedro play together.

 

[Gordon S]

We know Alexis Sanchez is shite, Martial is shite, Lukaku is shite, Mata is shite, Lingard is shite, Rashford is shite.
Well, pretty much everyone bar De Gea, Smalling and Shaw looks like they would struggle in the championship. It feels kinda pointless discussing individual performances when the team is performing so terrible.

 

[ash_86]

Yes because Martial has always been a crosser

Rashford & Martial need to play upfront as forwards - forget about crossing; play balls on the floor - not crossing to a lump like Lukaku.
Let Sanchez play behind them as a false 9. Let them all rotate and bring Lukaku on when we need an extra man upfront.

Play them as forwards- if Martial fails as a forward in a team that enables forwards to play together then sell him. I see no use in giving him that much negativity when he is made to play in positions and do things that get the best out of no one.

Him playing on the left wing and Lukaku playing in the centre like Drogba's cousin is not good for him nor martial, nor the CM or AM that plays there. There is a lack of cohesion because Jose has never cared about that - for that reason having a go at individual players is wrong under a manager who has them all playing as individuals.

Next manager & we can have a go at everybody.

He was 4 yards from lukaku. All he needed to do was simple pass which he also fecks up. He did it both from the right and left side of the D box. We are not talking about giving a cross from the byline. He was literally few yards away. Stop defending him for his shortcomings.