[Rozay]

Martial will be fine I think but he needs to become much more consistent before I'd put him up there with what Hazard or Sanchez do for their teams.

He does. He also needs the platform. He already carried our attack as a 19 year old (with a lot of help from Rashford later in the season), so with a much stronger unit around him, and more maturity in his own game - I think it's a fair prediction.

I don't think anyone is asking for blind faith in him from the manager - he is performing at a level that warrants such faith.

 

[kotha]

On a selfish note,I'm glad he hasn't been picked for international duty this time round.. He wouldn't have played anyway, so gets some much needed rest.. especially since Rashford is going to go on England duty and will mostly be tired..

I can see him having a very good 3 months and basically forcing Deschamps to pick him by not giving him an option..

 

[Rozay]

Don't think he will start next league game or league games in general just yet. Yesterday was an important step in him starting a game and influencing it from the off. So that pushes him further in terms of inclusion from the start in league games but he will need to do this consistently whenever he is given a start. He'll definitely get some starts in the league in October and needs to grab the opportunity with both hands.

At the moment Rashford is edging it in terms of helping the side to wins whilst being a starter (despite the lack of performance in an attacking sense) and therefore will retain his spot as a starter, as tactically whether by luck or not, he's helping us get results so no need to change it and take a risk.

Think everyone just needs to be patient, as I am sure Mourinho sees him as the starter LW by the time we get to winter. He's just slowly easing him in whilst ensuring he keeps Martial hungry, focused and really motivated to keep his place once he gets back into the side.

Right now how he is handling them both is fine.. he hasn't pissed anyone off just yet, so just need to chill out and let Jose do what he's doing. If Martial breaks into the side, has awesome league performances from the start and then is inexplicably dropped for no reason, then we can have cause for complaint.

All of that would be fair if those starting ahead of him were held to the same standard.

And the fact is, if you want to look at it simply as us winning games - we have won every game he has started too, so 'no need to change' as the saying has gone all season.

I'm not sure he's handling them fine at all, simply because the best player of the group both in terms of form and ability finds himself not starting too often. I agree that it is early days, so the hope is that Jose will basically do the right thing sooner or later. There is no hope of anything from Martial, he's already doing what he should be doing. Mata is stealing a place in the current XI.

 

[Rozay]

If something isn't broke, why fix it? We're doing fine as things stand in rotating Martial and Rashford, it helps keep them fresh which will benefit us at the back end of the season also. Matas stats will start reflecting his performances soon enough, it's only around the corner imo.

If it worked like that, Pogba will be on the bench when he's back as we've been winning games without him, just as Lindelof would have stayed in the team as we've won every game he's played .

Further more, we could probably drop a few more first teamers and still win, but we don't, obviously.

 

[Rozay]

But 'Jose obviously sees them in training so....'

 

[Raees]

All of that would be fair if those starting ahead of him were held to the same standard.

And the fact is, if you want to look at it simply as us winning games - we have won every game he has started too, so 'no need to change' as the saying has gone all season.

I'm not sure he's handling them fine at all, simply because the best player of the group both in terms of form and ability finds himself not starting too often. I agree that it is early days, so the hope is that Jose will basically do the right thing sooner or later. There is no hope of anything from Martial, he's already doing what he should be doing. Mata is stealing a place in the current XI.

Its Mourinho's peculiar form of man-management. It is part revenge, part a desire to see Martial 'man up', endure pain and come through it and prove himself a warrior dedicated to the cause. He will want to make Martial run through walls for him and really want to start under him.. he'll mess with his head to test how loyal Martial is to him and whether he can handle being dropped and still listen to him.

It is a battle of egos and in all fairness to Martial he has handled this all with aplomb this season thus far and doesn't seem to be running to the media forcing Jose's hand or overcelebrating, being selfish in games.. trying to belittle the manager or his rivals for the position. He's acting like a model pro so far and we just have to hope he continues doing this and the performances keep staying at this level, as once he earns Jose's trust, Jose will die for him and start trying to convince Deschamps to play him for the NT.

I genuinely think Jose can grow to love him and that it is more an emotional reason. man-management/psychological reason he keeps dropping Martial rather than it based on performances or even tactical. He wants Martial to be his soldier and a son for him, then he will unleash him. For now Martial is still in his bad books and needs to keep fighting to get in his good books. See the case of Mkhi last year and see the case of Shaw now - a total write off in Jose's books IMO.

Jose is very touchy about stuff like this.. to most people it can seem batshit crazy and irrational, but it is his way of management. When he feels like he doesn't have that loyalty from his players, he goes nuts.. and loses the dressing room.

 

[Art]

Disappointed for Martial but in a way relieved that he wouldn't pick up injuries on national duty.

 

[MeUnited]

I didn't even think he played that amazing yesterday. I still expect more from him. Didn't beat a man and create a goal from nothing like he can, but his passing was a lot better than normal, some good balls into Lukaku.


Before anyone points out he got three assists, I don't count the crosses he put in as beating a man and creating something from nothing, he got a yard and put a ball in, not the same. Lukaku created an okay cross into a goal, and their defender turned a meh cross into a goal. Nothing like what he did versus Carvajal when he crossed him out of his shorts and put one on a plate for Lingard.

 

[Rozay]

Its Mourinho's peculiar form of man-management. It is part revenge, part a desire to see Martial 'man up', endure pain and come through it and prove himself a warrior dedicated to the cause. He will want to make Martial run through walls for him and really want to start under him.. he'll mess with his head to test how loyal Martial is to him and whether he can handle being dropped and still listen to him.

It is a battle of egos and in all fairness to Martial he has handled this all with aplomb this season thus far and doesn't seem to be running to the media forcing Jose's hand or overcelebrating, being selfish in games.. trying to belittle the manager or his rivals for the position. He's acting like a model pro so far and we just have to hope he continues doing this and the performances keep staying at this level, as once he earns Jose's trust, Jose will die for him and start trying to convince Deschamps to play him for the NT.

I genuinely think Jose can grow to love him and that it is more an emotional reason. man-management/psychological reason he keeps dropping Martial rather than it based on performances or even tactical. He wants Martial to be his soldier and a son for him, then he will unleash him. For now Martial is still in his bad books and needs to keep fighting to get in his good books. See the case of Mkhi last year and see the case of Shaw now - a total write off in Jose's books IMO.

Jose is very touchy about stuff like this.. to most people it can seem batshit crazy and irrational, but it is his way of management. When he feels like he doesn't have that loyalty from his players, he goes nuts.. and loses the dressing room.

I agree with that, and I do think that's something Jose does. An issue for Martial though, seems to be that he already has a son like you described, who is playing in the exact same position.

Rashford has earned his trust. Jose doesn't care if he scores or not. Assists or not. He has faith in him, and we are still back to the scenario of, while he has made Mata inexplicably undroppable, he can only have one happy in the long run. Rashford is unlikely to take Lukaku's spot anytime soon.

 

[walkinhop]

I didn't even think he played that amazing yesterday. I still expect more from him. Didn't beat a man and create a goal from nothing like he can, but his passing was a lot better than normal, some good balls into Lukaku.


Before anyone points out he got three assists, I don't count the crosses he put in as beating a man and creating something from nothing, he got a yard and put a ball in, not the same. Lukaku created an okay cross into a goal, and their defender turned a meh cross into a goal. Nothing like what he did versus Carvajal when he crossed him out of his shorts and put one on a plate for Lingard.

Something i've noticed a lot of people wanting, to the point where the manager was ready to buy a player for it, is crosses. The moment our attackers begin looking for such possibilities, we are unhappy...

 

[Shimo]

Bummed for him - hopefully it doesn't get him down because he absolutely deserves to be in that squad after the way he started the season, didn't necessarily at the first break. Excited that such a talented France squad have Deschamps as their manager and he will handicap them going into the world cup with players like Sissokho and also we have our player rested.

As for the discussion about him starting. I don't think Rashford deserves to be dropped and yes perhaps both should be starting but, right now, while we are winning with the likes of Mata and Mkhitariyan starting in place of one of the two, having the weapon of one of them stepping of the bench is a huge plus. Maybe if both started we'd just blow teams away from the start but, not worth the gamble with a winning formula. I don't feel as optimistic with Mata, Mkhi or Lingard coming off the bench to spark us. Lingard provides energy but, does not put the fear into defenders (and opposing managers) as much as seeing Martial or Rashford coming on.

The team is what matters and right now we have a winning team. I think Martial is our best threat, to make magic happen and the one best at getting you off your feet and he will get his chances all through the season.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Sucks that he wasn't selected, but he'll be very fresh once the break is over.

 

[Raees]

I agree with that, and I do think that's something Jose does. An issue for Martial though, seems to be that he already has a son like you described, who is playing in the exact same position.

Rashford has earned his trust. Jose doesn't care if he scores or not. Assists or not. He has faith in him, and we are still back to the scenario of, while he has made Mata inexplicably undroppable, he can only have one happy in the long run. Rashford is unlikely to take Lukaku's spot anytime soon.

Whilst that is true, if at any stage the results stop pouring in and Rashford is not firing, that loyalty will be set aside. He will of course give Rashford a chance to rectify things, but taken to an extreme.. Martial would fight his way in.

 

[Devil may care]

Nah, not in the team

Coman, Payet, Sissoko and Tauvin all ahead of him.

That's good to hear as Mourinho is a stickler for training hard.

 

[RDCR07]

Happy he isnt called up to the French squad. Madness but still happy he gets to rest for two full weeks.

 

[Scorpy]

Deschamps

 

[Catt]

He'll get dropped of course, and thread will be overrun by the usual people with 'why sould he get picked? He's shit, the manager knows' etc

No. He won't start and people will moan he's on the bench.

 

[yfoFC]

If rashford or mbappe had that martial kinda performance (1 goal and 3 assists) then pundits will be creaming themselves and howling over his exclusion from the NT but this monster performance just flies under the radar. Just another day in the life of Anthony martial I guess, just doesn't have the love of the media for now

And before anyone tells me it's 'cause of the quality of the opposition then I call bull, Kane just had a hatrick against Apoel and (rightly) he's getting loads of credit

In a way though I am glad he hasn't been called up for this international break, let him rest and allow others do the dog work in getting France into the world cup and if he continues to put in performances like this then deschamps will have no choice but to take him to the world cup then.

 

[ChaddyP]

Always baffles me why posters want our players to go and play internationals mid-season. What's there to gain. I Hope none of our players are called up personally.

 

[yfoFC]

If something isn't broke, why fix it? We're doing fine as things stand in rotating Martial and Rashford, it helps keep them fresh which will benefit us at the back end of the season also. Matas stats will start reflecting his performances soon enough, it's only around the corner imo.

In other words, play mata into form and productivity while starving the others of consistent minutes till they regress out of form and quit supplying the goods in their limited game time and when that happens we can use it as a justification for their limited roles... Nice plan and reverse psychology at its finest

 

[Damien]

Always baffles me why posters want our players to go and play internationals mid-season. What's there to gain. I Hope none of our players are called up personally.

For most players, playing for their country is a huge honour. If he can't get into the France team it might demoralise him.

 

[ChaddyP]

For most players, playing for their country is a huge honour. If he can't get into the France team it might demoralise him.

If that is the case Herrera and mata must be distraught

 

[yfoFC]

We need more quotes like this so the narrative of how some are more driven than him and so will make them better players in the future can change... Martial doesn't display much emotion and seems restrained but now it's twisted to mean he doesn't work hard or something (Jose's quotes last season haven't helped either)

Tbf though, Jose has said this season martial is trying harder and now we are getting corroborating statements from his peers including lukaku who said himself, rashford and martial work on their finishing separately iirc

 

[Jib]

Deschamps about Martial ( 38 min ) :

" I called Martial when he was very young. I give him his chance but he wasn't always good unfortunately ( especially at the Euro ). And with Mourinho he isn't a starter but I agree with you, this season Martial seems focus , he's very good we saw that yesterday against CSKA with 1 goal and 2 or 3 assists.

I think that Martial is a player who is better as starter. I don't see him as a super sub.

He could have been called... if I have something to say to him, it's to continue like this and make me think again and again ( with a smile ) "

 

[Scorpy]

Stats looking good

 

[pascell]

If it worked like that, Pogba will be on the bench when he's back as we've been winning games without him, just as Lindelof would have stayed in the team as we've won every game he's played .

Further more, we could probably drop a few more first teamers and still win, but we don't, obviously.

We've won games with Pogba in the team and look more of a threat with him in CM. Lindelof needs time to adapt to the PL and the Jones/Bailly partnership is doing just fine, if we start changing the spine of our team cause we've won a few games we'll more than likely lose our balance.

Like I said in a previous post, we've played Martial and Rashford on the RW in the past and neither were as effective as on the LW. If they were as effective we'd have played one of them there already, there's no need to shoehorn both into the team whilst it's well balanced.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Must be demoralising seeing current Coman and Payet selected over you.

Martial in limited appearances is making scorelines go from 1-0 to 3 or 4-0. I think he’s been fantastic for us this season, and whilst I’m happy that he’ll be fresh, there is something about your players playing for national teams that just confirms their status.

Deschamps as an international manager continues to fail. His French pool of players is ridiculously stocked and yet he’s still unable to put together a truly formidable side. A certain striker called Lacazette has made 13 appearances, all under Deschamps and scored a solitary goal also, so these comments from Deschamps are simply weird.

 

[pascell]

In other words, play mata into form and productivity while starving the others of consistent minutes till they regress out of form and quit supplying the goods in their limited game time and when that happens we can use it as a justification for their limited roles... Nice plan and reverse psychology at its finest

Apart from Mata is already in form, his stats don't reflect it yet but they will. Mkhitaryan on the other hand isn't in form, loses the ball regularly but his stats show otherwise.

 

[MThomas]

Always baffles me why posters want our players to go and play internationals mid-season. What's there to gain. I Hope none of our players are called up personally.

Usually it's a reflection of how well they are doing for their clubs, and most players considers it to be a great honor to represent their national team, especially at big tournaments. Not sure why it has to be pointed out, but if a player feels that the lack of chances for his club team limits his chances of making the national team, then it increases the likelyhood of that player moving on.

 

[pocco]

Sounds like Deschamps and Mourinho are reading from the same playbook with Martial. Textbook motivation of a player that I think they know will be very special if they keep pushing him.

 

[Rozay]

We've won games with Pogba in the team and look more of a threat with him in CM. Lindelof needs time to adapt to the PL and the Jones/Bailly partnership is doing just fine, if we start changing the spine of our team cause we've won a few games we'll more than likely lose our balance.

Like I said in a previous post, we've played Martial and Rashford on the RW in the past and neither were as effective as on the LW. If they were as effective we'd have played one of them there already, there's no need to shoehorn both into the team whilst it's well balanced.

Well I was simply responding to your point of not needing to change the team on the basis that we won with Rashford starting, which is no point at all. If that applies, then we would not need to change the team as we have been winning when Pogba doesn't start either. Your point wasn't about RW. It was an over simplification of 'don't change a winning team'. I thought it pertinent to point out that we won the games Martial started too, but it didn't stop the manager from changing it back.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Apart from Mata is already in form, his stats don't reflect it yet but they will. Mkhitaryan on the other hand isn't in form, loses the ball regularly but his stats show otherwise.

That's just not true though is it? Mata is only ever good in home games right now. He's been very ineffective so far this year.

 

[Rozay]

Sounds like Deschamps and Mourinho are reading from the same playbook with Martial. Textbook motivation of a player that I think they know will be very special if they keep pushing him.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you have just gone far down this road of selling the 'motivation' theory, that that is all you can now see.

There is no indication that Deschamps is doing anything of the sort. Firstly, he is an international coach, and he likely won't be the manager in several years anyway. Also, it isn't the duty of an international coach to develop the players - his is to use the resources he has, and he obviously doesn't think Martial is one of his better or more trusted ones.

Managers live and die by their results on an ongoing basis, I'm not sure why you think every coach is going to embark on some long exercise to keep Martial keen. If they felt he was the man to deliver now, this week, he would play.

 

[Rozay]

Apart from Mata is already in form, his stats don't reflect it yet but they will. Mkhitaryan on the other hand isn't in form, loses the ball regularly but his stats show otherwise.

He isn't in good enough form to justify him fighting off the competition he has (or should have). He may not be playing terribly, but in theory, he's keeping out a player who is playing brilliantly. He's not doing enough to win a straight fight. Jose must fancy him tactically or whatever.

 

[Shimo]

Deschamps about Martial ( 38 min ) :

" I called Martial when he was very young. I give him his chance but he wasn't always good unfortunately ( especially at the Euro ). And with Mourinho he isn't a starter but I agree with you, this season Martial seems focus , he's very good we saw that yesterday against CSKA with 1 goal and 2 or 3 assists.

I think that Martial is a player who is better as starter. I don't see him as a super sub.

He could have been called... if I have something to say to him, it's to continue like this and make me think again and again ( with a smile ) "

Stupid comments by Deschamps considering Coman and Sissokho are not nailed on starters. Martial is starting games, just alternating with another very good player at the moment.

 

[pascell]

Well I was simply responding to your point of not needing to change the team on the basis that we won with Rashford starting, which is no point at all. If that applies, then we would not need to change the team as we have been winning when Pogba doesn't start either. Your point wasn't about RW. It was an over simplification of 'don't change a winning team'. I thought it pertinent to point out that we won the games Martial started too, but it didn't stop the manager from changing it back.

The point I originally intended to make was that whilst we're winning, theres no need to start shoehorning both into the team as neither are effective on RW.

My point is not to start Rashford but keep starting with Martial as his output has been better than Rashfords so far. Sorry if it hasn't come across that way.

 

[Santoryo]

Always baffles me why posters want our players to go and play internationals mid-season. What's there to gain. I Hope none of our players are called up personally.

Confidence. It's a big deal for most players to represent their country on world stage.

 

[acnumber9]

He isn't in good enough form to justify him fighting off the competition he has (or should have). He may not be playing terribly, but in theory, he's keeping out a player who is playing brilliantly. He's not doing enough to win a straight fight. Jose must fancy him tactically or whatever.

Who's he in a straight fight with? Martial doesn't play on the right.

 

[ChaddyP]

Usually it's a reflection of how well they are doing for their clubs, and most players considers it to be a great honor to represent their national team, especially at big tournaments. Not sure why it has to be pointed out, but if a player feels that the lack of chances for his club team limits his chances of making the national team, then it increases the likelyhood of that player moving on.

I never asked why a player would want to be called up, I asked why do we want them to be called up midseason when there is risk of injury and fatigue. SAF used to lie about them being injured so as to give them a rest during the break. I just dont sit here waiting on team sheets for National teams hoping to see united players on it, i just find it weird. Herrera hasnt made Spain squad are we going to think hes going to move on too? Martial has played more and been uch better than Giroud and Giroud is called up, thats the brakes, its alot to do with politics with International Games.

 

[Sayros]

Stupid comments by Deschamps considering Coman and Sissokho are not nailed on starters. Martial is starting games, just alternating with another very good player at the moment.

The thing I take from this is that Martial's only problem is a motivational one. It's things I've heard about him from even before his Monaco days, very talented, but can switch off and not be the hardest worker. He is changing that now, and understanding he can't just coast off his amazing talent. Deschamps will undoubtedly call him if he continues like this, just as Mourinho will undoubtedly make him a starter as well if he keeps working as he has so far.

I think the comparison with Mbappe is interesting in a way that if Martial is not careful, it could mirror the one between Cristiano and Quaresma. They were both supposed to be the next great players and one exceeded that while the other coasted off his talent and fell off by the wayside. However, I think Martial will not become another Quaresma. Even if I think Mourinho is not managing Tony as well as he could, he's still teaching him to become a hard worker.