[JPRouve]

Nah it was more than a change in approach.

Look at it this way, Martial's output is respectable but his game time isn't. That's because despite Martial's numbers, Mourinho wasn't satisfied with the way he was playing the role given to him and maybe because Martial wasn't displaying the adequate mindset around the training pitch.
Martial's personal problems existed under LVG, so you can't really consider that only Mourinho had to deal with it and LVG was perfectly happy with Martial's performances on the field, so logically the main problem is that Mourinho wants something different from his wide players and strikers, something that Martial never had in his locker. Martial isn't an anchor(I prefer that term to target man) or a winger.

There is only three outcomes here, either Mourinho starts using Martial to its strength or Martial learns the roles that Mourinho likes or Martial is out.

 

[Sayros]

There is only three outcomes here, either Mourinho starts using Martial to its strength or Martial learns the roles that Mourinho likes or Martial is out.

Pretty much this. And I don't think another summer will go by before one of those three outcomes will happen.

 

[Santoryo]

These talks about hard work or lack of when it comes to Martial is just your typical case stereotyping players.

There is this wierd idea that if a player is skilled, good on the ball and such, he can't be a hardworker and even if he's asked to be one he'll be unable to. Martial is just another example.

People are just throwing this lazy "he isn't a hardworker or isn't defensively good" just because of this random predefined perception about players of his ilk.

Martial was perfectly capable of following instructions and doing his defensive duties no more or less than most attacking players in our squad. Yet some people would have one believe he's unable to defend and the likes of Lingard bring fourth some otherworldly defensive qualities compared to Martial.

If anyone couldn't tell that Martial was defending last season and supporting his left back than they're far gone into this mythical perception about players of his ilk.

 

[Cassidy]

These talks about hard work or lack of when it comes to Martial is just your typical case stereotyping players.

There is this wierd idea that if a player is skilled, good on the ball and such, he can't be a hardworker and even if he's asked to be one he'll be unable to. Martial is just another example.

People are just throwing this lazy "he isn't a hardworker or isn't defensively good" just because of this random predefined perception about players of his ilk.

Martial was perfectly capable of following instructions and doing his defensive duties no more or less than most attacking players in our squad. Yet some people would have one believe he's unable to defend and the likes of Lingard bring fourth some otherworldly defensive qualities compared to Martial.

If anyone couldn't tell that Martial was defending last season and supporting his left back than they're far gone into this mythical perception about players of his ilk.

Him being lazy hasn't got anything to do with defending, quite the contrary. He is lazy in his off the ball movement in the attacking phase of play.

 

[JPRouve]

Him being lazy hasn't got anything to do with defending, quite the contrary. He is lazy in his off the ball movement in the attacking phase of play.

He isn't lazy, he doesn't see or feel those runs mainly because he thinks like an on the ball striker. The way he plays reminds me a quote from Ibrahimovic, basically Ibra had an argument with LVG because he wasn't making runs that LVG wanted from a striker and Ibra told him that he was following Van Basten's advices.

 

[Cassidy]

He isn't lazy, he doesn't see or feel those runs mainly because he thinks like an on the ball striker. The way he plays reminds me a quote from Ibrahimovic, basically Ibra had an argument with LVG because he wasn't making runs that LVG wanted from a striker and Ibra told him that he was following Van Basten's advices.

Yes lazy isnt the right word. However I think if someone (manager) is asking you to make runs and you're not then thats an issue. Maybe lazy is the wrong word. Unwilligness to adapt his game.

 

[Lennon7]

I predict a riot if he's booted out this early. He's still only what 21?

 

[SuperiorXI]

He could be one of the best in the world, we would be fools to sell him and no way do I think it's happening.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes lazy isnt the right word. However I think if someone (manager) is asking you to make runs and you're not then thats an issue. Maybe lazy is the wrong word. Unwilligness to adapt his game.

Players aren't robots, it's not because a manager tells a player to do something that he is going to be able to do it in an actual game at top level intensity. It takes time, hard work, confidence and talent/intelligence to do it.

Edit: Remember when Klose admitted that he couldn't see the runs that LVG expected from him? Klose in his prime was a brilliant striker with very good movement.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

 

[Shimo]

United Facebook just posted this with crying/laughing smiley saying don't make Lingard mad. Boy did he get mad.

 

[Cassidy]

Players aren't robots, it's not because a manager tells a player to do something that he is going to be able to do it in an actual game at top level intensity. It takes time, hard work, confidence and talent/intelligence to do it.

Edit: Remember when Klose admitted that he couldn't see the runs that LVG expected from him? Klose in his prime was a brilliant striker with very good movement.

I agree. However standing still and waiting to receive the ball on the LW before attacking as opposed to making runs off the ball isn't LVG levels of seeing runs.
Either way Martial is going to have to learn to add adaptability to his play so hopefully he can take these things on board.

 

[Cassidy]

 

[The White Pele]

I think he's going to have a great season. Hope so anyway.

 

[Cassidy]

I think he's going to have a great season. Hope so anyway.

Same

 

[Catt]

I think he's going to have a great season. Hope so anyway.

Yeah, I'm hopeful he will.

 

[JPRouve]

I agree. However standing still and waiting to receive the ball on the LW before attacking as opposed to making runs off the ball isn't LVG levels of seeing runs.
Either way Martial is going to have to learn to add adaptability to his play so hopefully he can take these things on board.

We totally agree here. I criticized that part of his development when it wasn't fashionable, he needs to improve his runs and he needs to improve his striking technique.

 

[Nero]

Martial and Lingard in major US tour bust-up - Neil Custis.

 

[Cassidy]

Martial and Lingard in major US tour bust-up - Neil Custis.

ffs

 

[Bicks]

See twitter.com/ManUtd/status/886186236293074944

 

[Adisa]

I don't get what is happening.

 

[Clique]

I don't get what is happening.

Thank God. I thought I was the only one!

 

[Womp]

I don't get what is happening.

Martial throws something at him and they have some fun. Little pretend fight between pals, gets broken up by Pogba and Lukaku though. Good to see that the players are enjoying themselves and seem to be in high spirits.

 

[Wade3]

Martial hit Lingard with a small ball while he was doing his handshake with Pogba.

He then hugged Lingard, who faked being upset, to calm him down. Then they apparently had a fake argument.

 

[whatwha]

Anyone else feel like Martial looks a whole lot happier these days? Just watching him in pre-season training, he's smiling a lot more, looks far more upbeat. Looked on Instagram today and saw Martial and Joel Periera having a laugh, it's probably a bit silly to think much of it but he looked really bummed out last season.

Think he could really kick on.

Good signs. I really hope he can kick on. He's got massive potential. As Frogie would say, "the boy's talent knows no bounds". Think he could be a top 10 attacker in the world if he is consistently at close to his best.

 

[AshRK]

He and mkhi are going to be our most important players this season. If we are to have a successful season apart from lukaku scoring close to 30, these two need to score 15 plus goals this season. I can easily see them doing.

 

[gr3yham3]

Good signs. I really hope he can kick on. He's got massive potential. As Frogie would say, "the boy's talent knows no bounds". Think he could be a top 10 attacker in the world if he is consistently at close to his best.

Yes he does look much happier. Hopefully he has moved on from his personal issues. Last year's France exertions did not help him at all too amd he started the season faced with no preseason, zlatan in his position (and jersey number), a poor showing for France and his personal.problems. This year seems to have started much better,and winning those trophies last year was a great boost to him and the rest of the team too. Let's hope he kicks on.

 

[Smoking_Owl]

I think we should ship this guy off to Inter for the season in the hope he can rekindle his career so his value is maintained.

Let's face it; if he stays, it's likely gonna be a repeat of last season. He doesn't do what Jose wants and he hasn't shown signs that he's going to adapt.

The hope that he's gonna kick on and become a key player for Jose this year is fanciful tbh.

 

[Cassidy]

I think we should ship this guy off to Inter for the season in the hope he can rekindle his career so his value is maintained.

Let's face it; if he stays, it's likely gonna be a repeat of last season. He doesn't do what Jose wants and he hasn't shown signs that he's going to adapt.

The hope that he's gonna kick on and become a key player for Jose this year is fanciful tbh.

No way

 

[roonster09]

I think we should ship this guy off to Inter for the season in the hope he can rekindle his career so his value is maintained.

Let's face it; if he stays, it's likely gonna be a repeat of last season. He doesn't do what Jose wants and he hasn't shown signs that he's going to adapt.

The hope that he's gonna kick on and become a key player for Jose this year is fanciful tbh.

Inter is graveyard for any young player.

 

[Smoking_Owl]

I'd be willing to bet that Martial won't start more than 20 games in the League and CL in the upcoming season.

He'll play plenty in the FA and League cup though.

 

[Cassidy]

I'd be willing to bet that Martial won't start more than 20 games in the League and CL in the upcoming season.

He'll play plenty in the FA and League cup though.

Doubt that, even last season he played 25 league games.

 

[R77]

The basic reality for Martial last year was that he only got a chance to start when either Ibra or Rashford was unavailable or, for the latter, not selected due to form. I think it will be the same for him this year, but now with Lukaku at CF instead of Ibra. Its not Perisic that will hurt Martial's playing time, because Perisic would be playing a different role, as the hard charging and defensibly responsible winger that balances the more offensive wide forward. The issue is Rashford. Assuming Lukaku is an automatic selection at CF in most matches, Martial will have to beat out Rashford to make the starting XI. And this will be hard, because Mourinho clearly really rates Rashford.

A good post that I'm suprised has been ignored. Maybe it's because you're a Gooner, but I think the objectivity is important.

I think we should ship this guy off to Inter for the season in the hope he can rekindle his career so his value is maintained.

Let's face it; if he stays, it's likely gonna be a repeat of last season. He doesn't do what Jose wants and he hasn't shown signs that he's going to adapt.

The hope that he's gonna kick on and become a key player for Jose this year is fanciful tbh.

I'd be willing to bet that Martial won't start more than 20 games in the League and CL in the upcoming season.

He'll play plenty in the FA and League cup though.

We've a kind of common ground here, yet are percieving it differently.

The obective is forging a cohesive unit which benefits the team as a whole, not Anthony Martial (among others) as an individual. This is tempered by the frustrations and concerns of having a potentially World class young player that just doesn't quite fit somehow. We (obviously!) need a few games to properly gauge how it's going to play out, but it's a puzzle at the moment. Some thoughts;

• Systems. If we continue to be set out the way we played for much of the latter half of last season, Martial will be at a disadvantage. Expecting him to fulfill the role it seems we're after Perisic for (essentially mirroring Valencia) would be a huge waste of his talents. Sharpening your weaknesses is not so great if you're dulling your strengths. The much conjectured by-products of pure DM signing are equally important in this case. An extra midfielder to act as CB reinforcement might not only loosen the reins of other midfielders (Pogba and Herrera), but also potentially Shaw and Martial. In any case, either tactic would be unlikey to be set in stone for all games. Chances and opportunities in what seems to be his designated position will still be there.
  
• Positions and adaptability. Though there'd be concerns of similar wastage, in the case of the former gameplan mentioned above, it's arguable that Rashford and Lingard would be better suited on the left. Martial would then get the bulk of his opportunities as back up striker. In terms of attributes, he's far more in common with Lukaku than anyone else. For cup games, rotation, and subs, it wouldn't be a million miles from a like for like replacement. Though I can't remember him ever playing there, you could almost argue he get opportunities on the right. Cutting in, bamboozling defenders, and getting shots off would really play to his strengths. Could he play there? It pretty much boils down to who you'd want to make the most sacrifices. Martial or Rashford.
  
• Game time and motivation. If elements of either of the above mean that he can't force himself in as first choice, does he have the mentality to maintain focus and motivation? Plenty of chances to play will still be there, cups and the amount of likely games in general. Having our forwards in good fitness and form would create the sort of problems that are good to have, what to do with Martial and Rashford being a case in point. There's the impression that Marcus is more likely to keep his head down and get on with it, but part of that comes down to Martial ridding himself of the malaise that was his last season.

It's all one of the more intriguing aspects of looking forward to the new season, though I can understand the pessimism from some.

 

[Arka_BleedingRed]

I agree. However standing still and waiting to receive the ball on the LW before attacking as opposed to making runs off the ball isn't LVG levels of seeing runs.
Either way Martial is going to have to learn to add adaptability to his play so hopefully he can take these things on board.

It's not that Martial never makes the runs, from time to time you will see him make runs off the ball, most often the runs are generally made into the center. But He hardly tends to stretch the play, making the wide runs, which is not generally expected from a player who is basically a left forward, not a left winger. Martial's natural tendency is to first receive the ball at his feet and then start the play, which essentially means that generally he will not make an off the ball run on the first pass, but could make the run beyond the defender after an inter-play or two with any other player. Also, he has shown good understanding with Mata and Mkhi, but needs to have a better sync with Pogba too.

One thing is for sure, A Martial on fire is completely unstoppable and becomes one of our best players on the pitch. The onus is on both Anthony and Mourinho to find a middle ground because Anthony is such a talent that we cannot afford to lose.

 

[Moiraine]

Should Martial play from the left of midfield, can it brings out the best from him ? (The same position Di'Maria played for Madrid a season before moving to United).

 

[MemphisDepay]

Should Martial play from the left of midfield, can it brings out the best from him ? (The same position Di'Maria played for Madrid a season before moving to United).

Di Maria played almost like the left of a midfield 3 didn't he? There's no way Martial could play that role effectively. He doesn't have the dynamism amongst a number of other qualities.

 

[MadMike]

Just came over this and realised a few things some of which actually surprised me.

Martial managed to register more assists than Miki, and beside Mata(not sure about this one) he's actually been our most productive winger despite not being favored out of all our wingers.

Lingard numbers are beyond abysmal. 1 goal and 2 assists in the numbers of appearances he had is simply unacceptable. Need to improve massively. And he was trusted by the manager, so he has no excuses for such poor return.

Perisic seem to be a cross happy guy given the amount of crosses in those stats. However his return isn't that good with the amount of cross he puts in, if anything he's wasteful. The guy having 2 more assists than Martial with the amount of cross he puts in could make one question what's the point of all those crosses. His accuracy must be pretty awful. Just had a bit of The Fulham game flashback.

With all that said, I might not be seeing the bigger picture given I'm evaluating this guy so far purely on stats alone and that can be deceiving. So we'll see next season.

This might be for the Perisic thread rather than here, but I repeated there that Perisic's crossing is not very accurate. It's actually one of his weaknesses. In a bad game he can be extremely frustrating because he will put in cross after cross after cross and they all get cleared by a defender. I watch Inter a fair a bit cause I've been a fan of theirs since I was a teenager (back when they had Vieri, Zanetti, Ronaldo, Zamorano etc).

The thing about his crossing is that it's essentially unstoppable. He can cross both with the left and the right and he's pretty quick. Whichever side the full back shows him, he's happy to go down that way and put a cross in. Unless he's double marked, it's very hard to shut those crosses down. And he doesn't stop, he doesn't let his head drop, he's very persistent. He keeps going for the full 90', hence the high number of crosses.

With a better strike force and a better team he can deliver better. Look at his numbers for the Croatian team. At the WC and the Euros he has 4 goals and 3 assists in 10 matches. His overall numbers are pretty impressive for a winger.

 

[ti vu]

Pogba seems to fall for it entirely. Either as naive as we suspect or a very good actor.

 

[nyanza]

And Jesse speaking French. Learned it faster than Valencia English.

 

[bosnian_red]

Very good half from him! Great for his confidence to score a goal too. He's still the one for me who could transform us into title winners IMO.