It's not about his age, it's about progression or regression. The fact is, I've said it many times now, Martial is supremely talented but he's not a hard-worker, never has been. I'm not saying he never will be, but that's always been a complaint from all of his coaches from a young age. In a club like Manchester United, and a coach like Mourinho, that is simply not going to fly. If he doesn't have a good season, Mou won't play him and Martial will miss the world cup. Both the club and the player will want to end the ride there at that point.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
It's not about his age, it's about progression or regression. The fact is, I've said it many times now, Martial is supremely talented but he's not a hard-worker, never has been. I'm not saying he never will be, but that's always been a complaint from all of his coaches from a young age. In a club like Manchester United, and a coach like Mourinho, that is simply not going to fly. If he doesn't have a good season, Mou won't play him and Martial will miss the world cup. Both the club and the player will want to end the ride there at that point.
Really? Where have you heard this?
So if Perisic does come in, does that mean that Martial will be relegated to the bench for the majority of the season? I get that he's going to play some games, but as a starter surely Perisic would take that role. Personally i would be very disappointed to see this.
I think that Perisic will come straight into the side with Martial initially on the bench. I don't think we're paying 45-50 million for Perisic to sit on the bench. However there will be plenty of games for Martial as well to play and if he can impress then no doubt he will give Mourinho a headache. If Martial can return to the form he showed in his first year I think it will be like a new signing definitely.
It would change throughout the season I think. As of now, between out midfield and attack, Herrera, Pogba and Lukaku are basically assured of their place. Leaves either 2 wingers and a 10, or 2 wingers and a holding midfielder. Mkhitaryan, Mata, Martial, Rashford you would expect to all be pretty even between the 2 winger spots, and then the #10/3rd midfielder depends on opponent. If we sign Perisic for 50m, then you would expect him to start on one wing, leaving still probably 2 positions most of the time for Mata/Martial/Miki/Rashford, especially if we don't sign another midfielder.
I'm from France originally, so I follow-up on the traditional sports channels like L'equipe, RMC, etc that cover French football, where they've interviewed previous coaches of Martial all pretty much saying that he's extremely talented, but not a hard-worker and that you'd always have to push him to reach greater heights. That's not to say that he's a complete lazy bum in training, but he just barely goes through the paces and you won't find him working longer than every one to get better. I believe this is a big part of what started the divide between him and Mourinho.
Well, Mourinho did bench Miki for the most part of half a season despite buying him himself for a bit of a fortune. Mou isn't shy to bench even his own acquisitions if he feels they aren't giving him what he wants.
Not going to lie and say I haven't seen much(if anything at all) of this Perisic bloke but from what I've heard people aren't that enthused about his imminent purchase.
Now it could always be a case of the Caf not getting what their dream or muppet signings were so they become a bit harsh on the replacement guy, so I'd like to judge the guy for myself when he gets here.
Though I'm just hoping the Caf isn't right on this one, otherwise I'd be watching another player getting picked ahead of other options not based on his actual playing and footballing skills but his workrate and all that stuff.
Not going to lie and say I haven't seen much(if anything at all) of this Perisic bloke but from what I've heard people aren't that enthused about his imminent purchase.
Now it could always be a case of the Caf not getting what their dream or muppet signings were so they become a bit harsh on the replacement guy, so I'd like to judge the guy for myself when he gets here.
Though I'm just hoping the Caf isn't right on this one, otherwise I'd be watching another player getting picked ahead of other options not based on his actual playing and footballing skills but his workrate and all that stuff.
Just came over this and realised a few things some of which actually surprised me.
Martial managed to register more assists than Miki, and beside Mata(not sure about this one) he's actually been our most productive winger despite not being favored out of all our wingers.
Lingard numbers are beyond abysmal. 1 goal and 2 assists in the numbers of appearances he had is simply unacceptable. Need to improve massively. And he was trusted by the manager, so he has no excuses for such poor return.
Perisic seem to be a cross happy guy given the amount of crosses in those stats. However his return isn't that good with the amount of cross he puts in, if anything he's wasteful. The guy having 2 more assists than Martial with the amount of cross he puts in could make one question what's the point of all those crosses. His accuracy must be pretty awful. Just had a bit of The Fulham game flashback.
With all that said, I might not be seeing the bigger picture given I'm evaluating this guy so far purely on stats alone and that can be deceiving. So we'll see next season.
Just came over this and realised a few things some of which actually surprised me.
Martial managed to register more assists than Miki, and beside Mata(not sure about this one) he's actually been our most productive winger despite not being favored out of all our wingers.
Lingard numbers are beyond abysmal. 1 goal and 2 assists in the numbers of appearances he had is simply unacceptable. Need to improve massively. And he was trusted by the manager, so he has no excuses for such poor return.
Perisic seem to be a cross happy guy given the amount of crosses in those stats. However his return isn't that good with the amount of cross he puts in, if anything he's wasteful. The guy having 2 more assists than Martial with the amount of cross he puts in could make one question what's the point of all those crosses. His accuracy must be pretty awful. Just had a bit of The Fulham game flashback.
With all that said, I might not be seeing the bigger picture given I'm evaluating this guy so far purely on stats alone and that can be deceiving. So we'll see next season.
Have you seen the sitters Inter strikers have missed?
Even if we factor that it still a bit too much though. Then again you could always be right given I'm looking this purely on stats basis and lacking a bit of context.
Good thing Lukaku is here then, because it'd have been a big case of deja vue with the squad last season for Perisic otherwise.
Let's hope that he can get back on track this season.
Such a talented lad, he just needs to sort his head out.
Such a talented lad, he just needs to sort his head out.
We could quite easily say the same thing about us.
I agree with most of what you said, but it's worth noting there's very little height in the Inter team he was playing in, while we have some very big players who can head the ball (Pogba, Fellaini, Lukaku, etc). In any case, everyone saying Perisic isn't good enough (and especially that he doesn't add goals) is being a bit churlish considering those stats.
Just came over this and realised a few things some of which actually surprised me.
Martial managed to register more assists than Miki, and beside Mata(not sure about this one) he's actually been our most productive winger despite not being favored out of all our wingers.
Lingard numbers are beyond abysmal. 1 goal and 2 assists in the numbers of appearances he had is simply unacceptable. Need to improve massively. And he was trusted by the manager, so he has no excuses for such poor return.
Perisic seem to be a cross happy guy given the amount of crosses in those stats. However his return isn't that good with the amount of cross he puts in, if anything he's wasteful. The guy having 2 more assists than Martial with the amount of cross he puts in could make one question what's the point of all those crosses. His accuracy must be pretty awful. Just had a bit of The Fulham game flashback.
With all that said, I might not be seeing the bigger picture given I'm evaluating this guy so far purely on stats alone and that can be deceiving. So we'll see next season.
Really hope he has a good season with us. Fed up with reading how his issues are down to Jose, he's a grown man with an abundance of talent. If he works hard he'll be a success here, if he doesn't then he'll be gone.
Let's see how he kicks on with much greater competition for a place in the team.
Basically this. Players can do no wrong. It's obvious Jose is a big fan of Martial's talent, which is evident by the fact that he was preferred at the start of the season and was picked despite being poor.
Just came over this and realised a few things some of which actually surprised me.
Martial managed to register more assists than Miki, and beside Mata(not sure about this one) he's actually been our most productive winger despite not being favored out of all our wingers.
Lingard numbers are beyond abysmal. 1 goal and 2 assists in the numbers of appearances he had is simply unacceptable. Need to improve massively. And he was trusted by the manager, so he has no excuses for such poor return.
Perisic seem to be a cross happy guy given the amount of crosses in those stats. However his return isn't that good with the amount of cross he puts in, if anything he's wasteful. The guy having 2 more assists than Martial with the amount of cross he puts in could make one question what's the point of all those crosses. His accuracy must be pretty awful. Just had a bit of The Fulham game flashback.
With all that said, I might not be seeing the bigger picture given I'm evaluating this guy so far purely on stats alone and that can be deceiving. So we'll see next season.
Main thing I noticed from that is that Martial started the same amount of games as Lingard and more than Mkhi. For someone that the manager supposedly doesn't rate that seems quite weird wouldn't you say. (Not claiming you have said this btw more a dig at the people who have )
I think there's definitely a section of people who are fans of Martial, I was fan of him last season because I thought going to a big club like Manchester would push him to become a true professional and the way he kicked on was a great sign of a beautiful career starting brightly. Then Mourinho came, and to be fair to him he gave him ample chances to start the season, Martial simply didn't deliver. You can blame the tactics, the personality of the new coach, but I think Martial's early jitters simply wore off like anyone who starts a new job and is a great employee then you slowly get comfortable, combined with his off-the-field issues of infidelity going public, he went back to his normal habits of being someone who's not going to give his hardest in practice. With a coach like Mourinho it's just not going to fly.
That's why I keep saying it's a make-or-break season, and I think he'll get his act straight. It's not just about last season, this is a world cup season and the fact that he's been phased out of the national team has to drive him to improve. If it doesn't, then there's nothing that can be done and he should be let go at what will be a substantial loss.
That's why I keep saying it's a make-or-break season, and I think he'll get his act straight. It's not just about last season, this is a world cup season and the fact that he's been phased out of the national team has to drive him to improve. If it doesn't, then there's nothing that can be done and he should be let go at what will be a substantial loss.
Well to be fair one could always say that given how Martial is at least thrice the productive player Lingard is(going by those stats) he should have played and started a lot more games compared to the latter.
A look at those stats and I can see why some can't wrap their brains around how Martial and Lingard got the same amount of gametime given the former lack of productivity while the latter managed to bring something on the table despite the season being wildly considered a poor one from him.
Martial was more productive than Lingard and played an equal number of matches to him. Shouldn't the one who is more productive get more starts as the season goes on. There was also days where Martial was completely left out of the match day squad. That being said he did deserve a kick up his behind for how poor he was last season
Surprisingly few crosses for a team with Ibra and Fellaini in it.
Just came over this and realised a few things some of which actually surprised me.
Martial managed to register more assists than Miki, and beside Mata(not sure about this one) he's actually been our most productive winger despite not being favored out of all our wingers.
Lingard numbers are beyond abysmal. 1 goal and 2 assists in the numbers of appearances he had is simply unacceptable. Need to improve massively. And he was trusted by the manager, so he has no excuses for such poor return.
Perisic seem to be a cross happy guy given the amount of crosses in those stats. However his return isn't that good with the amount of cross he puts in, if anything he's wasteful. The guy having 2 more assists than Martial with the amount of cross he puts in could make one question what's the point of all those crosses. His accuracy must be pretty awful. Just had a bit of The Fulham game flashback.
With all that said, I might not be seeing the bigger picture given I'm evaluating this guy so far purely on stats alone and that can be deceiving. So we'll see next season.
Expected. All our wingers(Martial, Miki,Mata etc) are cut inside players.
"Martial was more productive than Lingard and yet got to play fewer minutes"
Well that's because Mourinho thinks of productivity differently from the posters on here. He seems to count in defensive contributions too, and the contributions made in the build up - the pass before the assist or the two passes before that. Martial is severely limited in defensive abilities and his build up game, for now. Martial may score two goals in a game, but if and when he doesn't defend well enough or loses the ball like he often does and that results in the team conceding two goals, it effectively brings his productivity down to zero. This point becomes even more important considering how Mourinho wants the team to play. He sets up to break up play, and wants players who can carry the ball with them when United win it back. Martial often loses the ball when he is made to counter attack from the back. Lingard doesn't because the guy simply looks for a quick pass and isn't as indulging on the ball as Martial likes to be. Mkhi, at time, can be over indulgent but is also well capable of running around for 90 minutes and delivering quick, intricate passes when needed. In simple words, although Martial is a lethal attacker, he simply has to learn to be close to an all-rounder to be a Mourinho type player.
We will see the best of Martial and see him starting more and more often once the team is strong and capable enough of mitigating opposition attacks without having to defend with 11 players.
Well that's because Mourinho thinks of productivity differently from the posters on here. He seems to count in defensive contributions too, and the contributions made in the build up - the pass before the assist or the two passes before that. Martial is severely limited in defensive abilities and his build up game, for now. Martial may score two goals in a game, but if and when he doesn't defend well enough or loses the ball like he often does and that results in the team conceding two goals, it effectively brings his productivity down to zero. This point becomes even more important considering how Mourinho wants the team to play. He sets up to break up play, and wants players who can carry the ball with them when United win it back. Martial often loses the ball when he is made to counter attack from the back. Lingard doesn't because the guy simply looks for a quick pass and isn't as indulging on the ball as Martial likes to be. Mkhi, at time, can be over indulgent but is also well capable of running around for 90 minutes and delivering quick, intricate passes when needed. In simple words, although Martial is a lethal attacker, he simply has to learn to be close to an all-rounder to be a Mourinho type player.
We will see the best of Martial and see him starting more and more often once the team is strong and capable enough of mitigating opposition attacks without having to defend with 11 players.
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Conversitionn rate is always a weird one, they were the 5th highest goal scorers and 7th in conversation with I think 15.1% when Napoli is at 19% who were first. However the quality of the chance has to be taken in to account and that would come down in part to the delivery and Peresic is awful, he crosses to no one more often than not. The amount of times I've watched him hit it long or behind is unreal.
I can see why Jose wants him as a player who is hard working and decent in the air and will more often than not go wide but really the money involved is stupid and if we even entertained selling Martial as part of the deal for him then I don't recognise this club anymore. Would be ridiculous. Yes hard work is important but Martial showed last year against Spurs and others he will follow Joses game plan and played as a WB for him.
I hope this year will be different but honestly I can't look past Jose and think he is killing this club and a reason for supposedly poor performances are mostly in part to his game tactics or style.
Anyone else feel like Martial looks a whole lot happier these days? Just watching him in pre-season training, he's smiling a lot more, looks far more upbeat. Looked on Instagram today and saw Martial and Joel Periera having a laugh, it's probably a bit silly to think much of it but he looked really bummed out last season.
Think he could really kick on.
Think he could really kick on.
It comes from Martial himself.
I was just going to post exactly this. Saw a video of him and Periera pretending to fight and generally goofing around.
He looked so much happier. Let's hope he has put his troubles behind him, and like you say kicks on this season.
He has massive potential and if his head is right he has massive ability right now. No way does he go anywhere anytime soon.
I also think Mourinho knows it's in his own interest to get the best out of him. Still convinced he's our most talented player.
If he's on it this season, we'll score goals.
If he's on it this season, we'll score goals.
Good luck at Inter, Martial
Shame, I think this one is going to be a bigger Jose blunder than when he sold De Bruyne.
Shame, I think this one is going to be a bigger Jose blunder than when he sold De Bruyne.
Martial simply didn't deliver last year and has to pull his finger out again because he has the talent. And out of curiosity, who has been picked just for workrate?
Is he going on loan?
Martial is not going anywhere. Reports only say Inter made an inquiry, not that we agreed to it.
Important thing to remember is that Jose wants Perisic as an addition to already existing attacking options, not at the expense of the latter. Lukaku was a replacement, but Perisic is an addition.
If we send Martial on loan to Inter, I am okay with it so long as we buy 2 more attackers. While Zlatan is coming back, we can't count on him to regain the form he had pre-injury or to completely rule out a sudden move to the MLS, deciding against playing in England.
Important thing to remember is that Jose wants Perisic as an addition to already existing attacking options, not at the expense of the latter. Lukaku was a replacement, but Perisic is an addition.
If we send Martial on loan to Inter, I am okay with it so long as we buy 2 more attackers. While Zlatan is coming back, we can't count on him to regain the form he had pre-injury or to completely rule out a sudden move to the MLS, deciding against playing in England.
This I hope he gets atleast another season as selling him this summer would be ridiculous. He was brilliant the first season but really needs to show more as last season he was just short of being abysmal.
He kind of delivered, we expected more from him but we should remember that he was asked to play in a role that has never been his and that exposes his flaws. Martial is an attacker not a midfielder.
We expected him to build on his first season and that might be wrong when you consider his age. He looked distracted at times and not the same as the previous year.
I gather you have watched Martial from his time at Monaco, so where do you see him playing his best football?
Turn it in.
Am I missing something.
No that might be wrong when the manager changed and changed the dynamic of our attack and Martial's role. To me he is a striker that can play left inside forward.
Nah it was more than a change in approach.
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