[breakout67]

The way he is drifting in constantly instead of doing take-ons from the flank seems more like tactical instruction to me than him doing it on his own. The one game I've watched him play for France he was doing what he did in his first season here, which was receive the ball facing up to the left back and breaking down the defense with footwork and trickery.

I think Jose's tactic on the other hand is to have the wingers come narrow, adding numbers in midfield and open up spaces for the full backs to overlap. Which might explain why he was apoplectic with Shaw not getting forward as much.

That must be why Rashford is constantly trying to take on his man like an old fashioned winger and Martial prefers to dribble into tight spaces? Nevermind that Willian was a mainstay in Mourinho's Chelsea who is not an inverted forward. What about Di Maria who was a monster as a winger under Mourinho?

I swear, the lengths some will go to try to paint Martial as Pele-reincarnate. He can be an inverted forward, an old fashioned winger, a playmaker...Martial can do anything he just needs the right tactics and he'll be the best player on the pitch!

Martial being poor at utilizing space is his own problem, Rashford, Mata and Lingard all have no problem running behind defences, it's not a tactical instruction it's a shortcoming in his game that he is obsessed with going inside into traffic.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

That must be why Rashford is constantly trying to take on his man like an old fashioned winger and Martial prefers to dribble into tight spaces? Nevermind that Willian was a mainstay in Mourinho's Chelsea who is not an inverted forward. What about Di Maria who was a monster as a winger under Mourinho?

I swear, the lengths some will go to try to paint Martial as Pele-reincarnate. He can be an inverted forward, an old fashioned winger, a playmaker...Martial can do anything he just needs the right tactics and he'll be the best player on the pitch!

Martial being poor at utilizing space is his own problem, Rashford, Mata and Lingard all have no problem running behind defences, it's not a tactical instruction it's a shortcoming in his game that he is obsessed with going inside into traffic.

Because a manager conveys the same tactic to every player at every team he coached at. Yeah that sounds sensible.

 

[breakout67]

Because a manager conveys the same tactic to every player at every team he coached at. Yeah that sounds sensible.

Do you think any manager worth his salt would specifically tell a player to not do something he is good at? So he is playing Martial just to not play to his strengths?

Your idea is that he wants his wide forwards to cut inside all the time...yet Martial is the only one that actually does it. Every other player that plays there doesn't have the obsession with it, they mix things up. Add to this that his tactical history actually says the opposite; he loves himself an old fashioned winger. Why do you think he wanted Perisic so badly?

Mata is a playmaker, yet he regularly gets behind defenses with his intelligent movement. Rashford arguably does too much of trying to get into the space. Sanchez has no problem staying wide, beating his man and putting a cross in.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Sanchez has no problem staying wide, beating his man and putting a cross in.

Are you even watching games at this point?

 

[breakout67]

Are you even watching games at this point?

That is what Sanchez does half the time he gets the ball in wide areas. Does that shimmy back and forth and then chips the ball into the box. It's incredibly frustrating because it almost never works, but he does it and he is not being told not to do it.

 

[edgar allan]

What is it that you think talent is? Cristiano wasn't more talented than Martial, who blew his stats away in his first season at Manchester United, has a better touch and dribbling (real dribbling, not YT showpony highlights that accomplish very little), and is more ruthless in goal-scoring position. Cristiano is not even as talented as Rooney was. The guy worked his ass off and is one of the most driven players of all-time. Talent is a lazy excuse and the language of losers IMO. Hard work is all that pays off, and Martial is not known to be the hardest-working guy. You can't change a zebra into a work-horse, and I don't think Mourinho is the right coach to get the most out of a guy like Martial who can be great in his own right, but needs to be played in the proper set up. He's not the kind of player (at least not now) who can shine in any set-up, and he may never be.

What bad luck that we have now two players that can only shine if they are played in a very specific team set up.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Fuse Martial and Rashford and we'd have the best youngster in the world. The two have strengths that, if shared with the other, could eradicate their weaknesses, it's a shame they're not one player.

 

[edgar allan]

Martial isn't even the same type of player. He is much closer to players like Hazard or Robben.

Sadly that is pure speculation at this stage.

 

[Damien]

May have been asked before, but is he in the French squad for this international week?

Good to have a break from Martial bashing. Yes he is but both he and Pogba sat out training yesterday due to minor injuries.

The discussion above about what Ronaldo's level was seen to be when he joined is probably best suited for a new thread. I think B20 hit the nail on the head.

 

[MadDogg]

Strange thing that Do one. Don't know how old you were when we acquired both, but the sentiment on my side had always been that Rooney was the world beater. In terms of what they showed at the same age, Rooney was more gifted, was putting in incredible shifts at the international level ( even before joining United ). Ronaldo, until 2007 was perceived as a talented show-pony, a very frustrating one at that.

It's interesting to hear that some people thought of him as being more naturally talented than Rooney back then. 2007 was when he truly arrived. Before that, he'd cost us goals from time to time. I vividly remember his days of losing the ball for no reason in the middle of the park against Arsenal.

Like I said in my second post, I can understand if you'd rate Rooney ahead of him in pure talent even though I personally would disagree. It was fairly close though, so Rooney's far better decision making and just general football intelligence obviously made him a better player overall at the time.

Martial was the main one that my post was focusing on. I really do like the guy and if everything goes well I could see him reach a level on par with the best players in the league over the last few years. But that's still a level or two below where Ronaldo (and Rooney) was.

But yeah, that discussion has probably gone far enough in this thread. Don't want to derail it anymore. Edit: Whoops, especially since Damien said that as well. Last one mate.

 

[Harry190]

Like I said in my second post, I can understand if you'd rate Rooney ahead of him in pure talent even though I personally would disagree. It was fairly close though, so Rooney's far better decision making and just general football intelligence obviously made him a better player overall at the time.

Martial was the main one that my post was focusing on. I really do like the guy and if everything goes well I could see him reach a level on par with the best players in the league over the last few years. But that's still a level or two below where Ronaldo (and Rooney) was.

But yeah, that discussion has probably gone far enough in this thread. Don't want to derail it anymore. Edit: Whoops, especially since Damien said that as well. Last one mate.

Yeah, yeah, just thought it was interesting to read about different opinions and assessments of those particular players.

My bad. I knew it was moving away from the Martial thing. Just posting for closure.

 

[GloucesterRed]

I see 3 main problems concerning Martial and they are;

1/ Martial needs to be playing in a fast-paced team, just like the start of the season, we were quick out the blocks, he's far more dangerous at speed.

2/ He loses heart too quickly and doesn't make space very well with his off the ball runs.

3/ He's useless in the air, I can nearly count on two hands how many aerial challenges he has made so far this season.
He has time on his side but we need to quicken the pace of play for him to make a difference.

 

[Garethw]

If Mourinho stays beyond the summer I can see Martial being sold to make room for a Perisic style winger.

Hopefully I’m wrong, but I just have that feeling

 

[Andycoleno9]

If Mourinho stays beyond the summer I can see Martial being sold to make room for a Perisic style winger.

Hopefully I’m wrong, but I just have that feeling

No way. No logic for that. Jose knows( i hope) what potential martial has and there is also a fee. We payed him 80 mil. I don't see that anybody will pay for him that money. And there is no need for us to "cut our losses" and accept lower fee.
If we sell him it will be really stupid thing to do and jose and ed know that fans would be angry.

 

[Damien]

No way. No logic for that. Jose knows( i hope) what potential martial has and there is also a fee. We payed him 80 mil. I don't see that anybody will pay for him that money. And there is no need for us to "cut our losses" and accept lower fee.
If we sell him it will be really stupid thing to do and jose and ed know that fans would be angry.

We've paid about £50M so far (second clause might be met to take it to close to 60M if he makes the France World Cup squad and plays in nearly every game). If we sell this summer he'll probably be gone for 55-60M which given the inflation in transfer prices I'm sure a few teams would be willing to pay.

 

[Andycoleno9]

We've paid about £50M so far (second clause might be met to take it to close to 60M if he makes the France World Cup squad and plays in nearly every game). If we sell this summer he'll probably be gone for 55-60M which given the inflation in transfer prices I'm sure a few teams would be willing to pay.

Sorry, i was talking in euros. I don't think that we will accept 70-80m euros. As i said, we know that he is player with huge potential and the most important thing- can we buy better player for that money?
Or maybe i am deluding myself because i really like this player.

 

[Full bodied red]

If Mourinho stays beyond the summer I can see Martial being sold to make room for a Perisic style winger.

Hopefully I’m wrong, but I just have that feeling

But it's a RW we need - we already have three players who need to play LW to get a game.

And let's face it - for the last three years, our opponents didn't actually need a defensive LB in their team because all our attacks and crosses are down the LW and I'd love to see the stats the past three years of our LW crosses / assists v RW crosses / assists.

 

[Damien]

Sorry, i was talking in euros. I don't think that we will accept 70-80m euros. As i said, we know that he is player with huge potential and the most important thing- can we buy better player for that money?
Or maybe i am deluding myself because i really like this player.

Even with euros, we've only paid €60M so far. Would go up to €70M if he has 25 caps for France but he didn't even get off the bench tonight so I don't think there is any worry of him getting that clause this summer.

 

[Ban]

So he's leaving too?

 

[Cassidy]

So he's leaving too?

What?

 

[OL29]

So he's leaving too?

Huh?

 

[Ban]

What?

I've seen talk about him potentially leaving here. Don't know from where that came out.

 

[Damien]

So he's leaving too?

Maybe, maybe not. Few people in the media reporting it likely as Mourinho wants to bring in an experienced right winger and selling Martial to bring in this right winger wouldn't affect Rashford's game time as much.

Martial's agent has said the Juventus rumours are false

“Will [Martial] stay in Manchester in the summer? I'm sorry but at the moment I cannot say anything else about it.

“His goal is to win the FA Cup and to cement second place in the Premier League with United to qualify for next season's Champions League.

"I have never met with Juventus. Doyen Sport does not represent Anthony Martial and all that has been reported in Italian newspapers, regarding my client, is false."

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I've seen talk about him potentially leaving here. Don't know from where that came out.

Wasn’t it that Jose hopes to get Peresic in this year. The board put a Kabosh to it last year as they didn’t rate Peresic and also they had faith in Martial and wanted Jose to persist with him. Add in Inter supposedly wanted Martial as part of any deal.
So rumour is with Peresic supposedly coming in Martial will make way.

 

[haram]

Wasn’t it that Jose hopes to get Peresic in this year. The board put a Kabosh to it last year as they didn’t rate Peresic and also they had faith in Martial and wanted Jose to persist with him. Add in Inter supposedly wanted Martial as part of any deal.
So rumour is with Peresic supposedly coming in Martial will make way.

We have been linked with Willian, Costa, Perisic. Martial may be sacrificed for someone who can play on the right.

 

[Damien]

We have been linked with Willian, Costa, Perisic. Martial may be sacrificed for someone who can play on the right.

With the exception of Willian, all of those have done better on the left and I doubt Chelsea would sell us Willian. They've already put a stop to it two times before.

 

[haram]

With the exception of Willian, all of those have done better on the left and I doubt Chelsea would sell us Willian. They've already put a stop to it two times before.

It does make me wonder though with Sanchez and Rashford also at the club. I dont really see Martial or Rashford taking that RW position.

Unless we move to a 4312 perhaps and Rashford/Martial partner Lukaku.

 

[Damien]

It does make me wonder though with Sanchez and Rashford also at the club. I dont really see Martial or Rashford taking that RW position.

Unless we move to a 4312 perhaps and Rashford/Martial partner Lukaku.

Rashford will be a starter in the cups and first attacking sub like he is now, I imagine. I can only see us having the same problem next summer when we're negotiating Rashford's next contract unless he manages to push his way in to the starting lineup but with Sanchez and probably a right winger brought in, it won't be straightforward.

 

[Garethw]

I will be besides myself with rage if Mourinho sells Martial to bring in a 28-30 year old winger.

 

[haram]

I will be besides myself with rage if Mourinho sells Martial to bring in a 28-30 year old winger.

Why does it matter if the winger is 28?

 

[Garethw]

Why does it matter if the winger is 28?

It will be another short term instant fix that’s why.

Mourinho isn’t interested in buying players for the future which is evident with his pursuit of Perisic and aquisition of Matic and Sanchez.

A 22 year old Martial should not be sacrificed. Mourinho’s judgement is horrendous with youngsters (De Bruyne and Salah say hi).

When Mourinho inevitably leaves (probably summer 2019) we will be left with an aging group of his signings that will need replacing again.

 

[SteveJ]

Who can blame Mourinho for that 'policy'? If he doesn't get results, he's out - he can't afford to show patience.

 

[El-Manos]

It will be another short term instant fix that’s why.

Mourinho isn’t interested in buying players for the future which is evident with his pursuit of Perisic and aquisition of Matic and Sanchez.

A 22 year old Martial should not be sacrificed. Mourinho’s judgement is horrendous with youngsters (De Bruyne and Salah say hi).

When Mourinho inevitably leaves (probably summer 2019) we will be left with an aging group of his signings that will need replacing again.

Have to agree with this. Would be a diabolical decision, feck Perisic.

 

[Garethw]

Who can blame Mourinho for that 'policy'? If he doesn't get results, he's out - he can't afford to show patience.

Every single person associated with the club should be blaming him. It’s short term planning of the highest order.

Constantly signing 28,29 and 30 year olds just means that a major rebuild is required every few years.

If we sell Martial then we will regret it, mark my words. Mourinho won’t care as he will be at another club in a year or two and we will be left with a team of old farts to clear out again.

 

[Damien]

Who can blame Mourinho for that 'policy'? If he doesn't get results, he's out - he can't afford to show patience.

Irony being that our results faltered again after Sanchez came in. We were on a four game winning run then lost two of the next four games after he signed - with the wins being against Yeovil Town and Huddersfield.

 

[SteveJ]

Our board should've known that's how he works. They too want quickly-realised success.

 

[haram]

It will be another short term instant fix that’s why.

Mourinho isn’t interested in buying players for the future which is evident with his pursuit of Perisic and aquisition of Matic and Sanchez.

A 22 year old Martial should not be sacrificed. Mourinho’s judgement is horrendous with youngsters (De Bruyne and Salah say hi).

When Mourinho inevitably leaves (probably summer 2019) we will be left with an aging group of his signings that will need replacing again.

Every single person associated with the club should be blaming him. It’s short term planning of the highest order.

Constantly signing 28,29 and 30 year olds just means that a major rebuild is required every few years.

If we sell Martial then we will regret it, mark my words. Mourinho won’t care as he will be at another club in a year or two and we will be left with a team of old farts to clear out again.

Lukaku 24
Pogba 24
Lindelof 23
Bailly 23

Matic 29
Mkhi 28
Sanchez 28

 

[Damien]

Lukaku 24
Pogba 24
Lindelof 23
Bailly 23

Matic 29
Mkhi 28
Sanchez 28

Ibrahimovic 34 (when he signed) as well, so it is 50/50 on signings for the future and signings for the now. We signed Bailly when he was 22.

 

[haram]

Ibrahimovic 34 as well, so it is 50/50 on signings for the future and signings for the now.

Ahh yes, I forgot Ibra. Ibra was always and clearly a short term fix though, and was replaced with a young striker. I dont think there is a pattern of Mourinho just signing older players at United. It’s balanced. Sanchez was also swapped with Mkhi.

It’s also hilarious people talking about Mourinho being short term when there was a large amount of fans calling Lukaku a shit donkey. His use of McTominay and Rashford also does not indicate short termism.

 

[Handré1990]

Would be very dissappointed if we sold this lad. Before Sanchez came, Martial looked like he had (yet again) won himself a place in the XI and some deserved respite from the constant fight for a starting spot. Sure as sh** he was out and an out of form Sanchez was in.

The exact thing I couldn’t imagine would happen did, just one more reason to doubt Mou for me. I get that competition for spots is essential for success, but in this case it looks like he doesn’t have a chance, Sanchez certainly hasn’t been performing. That’s counterproductive imo.