[haram]

You thought we were going somewhere when you couldn't even acknowledge facts and stared with your assumptions?

12 shots 0 goals vs 14 shots 3 goals, if that's not improvement then I don't know what is.

I have explained and gave real context several times. Your points are weak but I’ll prove you wrong again.

You said there was a CLEAR improvement in Martial’s long range shooting compared to his debut season. You then used three goals against Stoke, Watford and Everton to prove this.

1. He scored a similar goal against Stoke in his debut season
2. Both Everton and Watford goals were inches outside the box. This is not really showcasing long range shooting
3. The Watford goal is something martial would have easily scored in his debut season. So this does NOT showcase improvement.

Your points are weak. It is not CLEAR his long range shooting has improved since his debut season. You should perhaps go and check what CLEAR means. If there is not a CLEAR inprovement like you said there was, you are simply wrong.

 

[haram]

I don't know if you problems with reading but it was me who started the conversation, in my first post I specifically said goals from outside the box. But you know what, I'm not going to waste my time talking to you about this, of you think you're objective when it comes to Martial then you must be having a laugh. It's no coincidence that numerous people pull you up on your bullshit in this thread. Everyone can see your agenda.

Someone said there was a CLEAR improvement in Martial’s long range shooting. That is simply not the case. It is not clear at all. I dont see how I am wrong here or how that constitutes me having an ‘agenda’. I have praised Martial several times during this debate. You’re just running hiding behind the word ‘agenda’ because I wouldn’t declare everything Martial does as amazing. Sorry.

 

[roonster09]

I have explained and gave real context several times. Your points are weak but I’ll prove you wrong again.

You said there was a CLEAR improvement in Martial’s long range shooting compared to his debut season. You then used three goals against Stoke, Watford and Everton to prove this.

1. He scored a similar goal against Stoke in his debut season
2. Both Everton and Watford goals were inches outside the box. This is not really showcasing long range shooting
3. The Watford goal is something martial would have easily scored in his debut season. So this does NOT showcase improvement.

Your points are weak. It is not CLEAR his long range shooting has improved since his debut season. You should perhaps go and check what CLEAR means. If there is not a CLEAR inprovement like you said there was, you are simply wrong.

oh dear

 

[haram]

Yeah, oh dear, someone has been handed a solid arguement and doesn't know how to reply.

 

[roonster09]

Yeah, oh dear, someone has been handed a solid arguement and doesn't know how to reply.

That's solid argument? Argument like Martial could have scored goal like he did against Watford even though he played 31 games in 2015-16 and scored none? That's solid argument? No wonder you are winning argument in your head.

To add to that, your first post itself was completely wrong when almost every aspect of his game has improved stats wise.

I don’t think he has actually improved much since his debut season. Better than last year of course.

 

[haram]

That's solid argument? Argument like Martial could have scored goal like he did against Watford even though he played 31 games in 2015-16 and scored none? That's solid argument? No wonder you are winning argument in your head.

Go and watch the goal. It is a pass into the corner. It doesn't constitute a long range effort, and Martial proved in his first season he could finish similar chances. That goal is not proof his long range shooting has improved.

 

[meamth]

If i had a problem with my missus and i performed badly at my job for a whole year i would get the sack.

It’s a poor excuse to hide behind, everybody has problems in life. As said in my and a lot of people’s opinions he’s not playing fantastic now and he’s had his critics this season, so what’s the excuse there?

If i had a problem with my missus and i performed badly at my job for a whole year i would get the sack.

It’s a poor excuse to hide behind, everybody has problems in life. As said in my and a lot of people’s opinions he’s not playing fantastic now and he’s had his critics this season, so what’s the excuse there?

Mental breakdown is not easy at all. My boss were aware of my problems but he didn't put more problems to me and let me heal through time. That's how you deal with your employees who have problems not just sack them for not performing. That's how you treat a person because in all the problems they are facing, you have to believe in that person for what they were. if time are needed for them, give them a chance.

Not being ruthless and forcing suicidal thoughts by giving them the sack.

 

[Trizy]

A couple people have said that? What do people think his ‘standard’ is?

Previous games gone by all you can read is words like ‘poor’ ‘overrated’ ‘lazy’ on his performances on the RedCafe, so if he was “a poor by his standard” against Stoke what does that even mean? I’m convinced a lot of people don’t even watch the games, just check the internet and see he got a goal and assist and go

For me it was a typical sluggish Martial performance.

I think he's usually very good on the ball, dribbling, shooting and movement. But nothing seemed to come off for him in the first half so he wasn't his usual self (below standards).

 

[roonster09]

Go and watch the goal. It is a pass into the corner. It doesn't constitute a long range effort, and Martial proved in his first season he could finish similar chances. That goal is not proof his long range shooting has improved.

Yes but scoring against Everton and Stoke while he scored 0 in 2015-16 proves he has improved.

 

[haram]

Yes but scoring against Everton and Stoke while he scored 0 in 2015-16 proves he has improved.

Ok so you accept you are wrong about the Watford goal.

He scored a simiar one against stoke in his debut season. Everton goal was again a few inches outside the box but I’ll give you it. Great finish. Even with that, it does not prove his long range shooting has CLEARLY improved. The key word here is CLEARLY.

 

[OL29]

Someone said there was a CLEAR improvement in Martial’s long range shooting. That is simply not the case. It is not clear at all. I dont see how I am wrong here or how that constitutes me having an ‘agenda’. I have praised Martial several times during this debate. You’re just running hiding behind the word ‘agenda’ because I wouldn’t declare everything Martial does as amazing. Sorry.

Just look through your posts over the season in this thread and compare them to those in Rashfords thread. You need to grow up.

 

[roonster09]

Ok so you accept you are wrong about the Watford goal.

He scored a simiar one against stoke in his debut season. Everton goal was again a few inches outside the box but I’ll give you it. Great finish. Even with that, it does not prove his long range shooting has CLEARLY improved. The key word here is CLEARLY.

No, I'm not wrong. It's just that I'm not arsed to argue against your assumptions

Now you are arguing what "Clearly" means?

Like I said, your first post itself was completely wrong. Yeah Key word is "Completely". Martial has improved almost every aspect of his game stats wise that itself shows he has improved.

 

[OL29]

Ok so you accept you are wrong about the Watford goal.

He scored a simiar one against stoke in his debut season. Everton goal was again a few inches outside the box but I’ll give you it. Great finish. Even with that, it does not prove his long range shooting has CLEARLY improved. The key word here is CLEARLY.

His goal against Stoke wasn't even that similar to his previous ones ffs. It's a much harder technique to hit it first time, why do you keep failing to acknowledge this?

 

[haram]

Just look through your posts over the season in this thread and compare them to those in Rashfords thread. You need to grow up.

I do not have a problem with Martial starting ahead of Rashford at the moment and have stated so in the past few weeks. So out goes your ‘agenda’ card. Im willing to have debates, you’re just getting emotional because I wont praise everything about Martial. Doesn't mater how much praise I offer apparantly.

 

[roonster09]

His goal against Stoke wasn't even that similar to his previous ones ffs. It's a much harder technique to hit it first time, why do you keep failing to acknowledge this?

Exactly. Both side foot finish and that's where comparison ends.

 

[haram]

No, I'm not wrong. It's just that I'm not arsed to argue against your assumptions

Now you are arguing what "Clearly" means?

Like I said, your first post itself was completely wrong. Yeah Key word is "Completely". Martial has improved almost every aspect of his game stats wise that itself shows he has improved.

Until you can put forward a good arguement that illustrates the three goals he has scored shows he has CLEARLY improved his long range shooting, I dont want to hear it anymore. You’re dancing around avoiding the debate for a reason.

There is NOTHING clear about it.

 

[haram]

There is a difference between saying he has ARGUABLY improved his long range shooting and that he has CLEARLY improved his long range shooting. The evidence is not strong enough to claim he has CLEARLY improved his long range shooting. If you dont understand that then that’s on you. This is something GCSE students grasp at school.

 

[roonster09]

Meh, repeating same thing again and again.

More goals, assists, chances created, passes, better dribble completion rate, pass completion rate, more goal from outside the box but yeah Martial haven't improved from his first season.

 

[bosnian_red]

I wouldn't say his long range shooting has improved so much. His decision making and consistency definitely have, and he do he himself in great chances every game so you can make an argument for his movement. But it is hard to judge how much he's improved. 2 different manager with completely different styles, and LvG built the side around him so he did look brilliant. His end product is more consistent now looking at the stars, despite the side not being built around him anymore and that's enough sign that hes improved imo.

The thing with him is that he had everything as a 19 year old when he came. It's not like he was a rashford who was very raw, or Sterling or some others where they only show some aspects and hope they can add things to their game. Martial already had everything in his first season and the question was always can he up the consistency as he gets older and produce that top level most weeks. He scored 17 goals and 11 assists so you're thinking he can get to 25, 30 or more goals a season while also getting around 20 assists. Just step the productivity up another level and show it consistently in big games. Plenty of time for him to get there and I'm sure he will.

 

[haram]

I wouldn't say his long range shooting has improved so much. His decision making and consistency definitely have, and he do he himself in great chances every game so you can make an argument for his movement. But it is hard to judge how much he's improved. 2 different manager with completely different styles, and LvG built the side around him so he did look brilliant. His end product is more consistent now looking at the stars, despite the side not being built around him anymore and that's enough sign that hes improved imo.

This is a fair post and at least you are considering different aspects and factors.

 

[bosnian_red]

This is a fair post and at least you are considering different aspects and factors.

Added in another paragraph or so. Hard to tell huge improvement with him because his first season showed everything as a player, apart from consistency pretty much. Showed he could score with both feet, showed some heading ability, showed decent finishing from range, showed great dribbling and showed he could create. Also showed great pace and strength, which is why he generated so much hype at 19. Similar to Rooney, he had it all. Question for judging his improvement is how often he does it and turns it on.

Difference with Rashford and obvious improvement there is how rashford is constantly adding stuff to his game, like different ways of making chances for himself and others, bulking up, long range shooting, etc. Even the type of poacher goals. He was a lot less refined as a player so has more to make up so to speak.

 

[haram]

Added in another paragraph or so. Hard to tell huge improvement with him because his first season showed everything as a player, apart from consistency pretty much. Showed he could score with both feet, showed some heading ability, showed decent finishing from range, showed great dribbling and showed he could create. Also showed great pace and strength, which is why he generated so much hype at 19. Similar to Rooney, he had it all. Question for judging his improvement is how often he does it and turns it on.

Difference with Rashford and obvious improvement there is how rashford is constantly adding stuff to his game, like different ways of making chances for himself and others, bulking up, long range shooting, etc. Even the type of poacher goals. He was a lot less refined as a player so has more to make up so to speak.

Yeah, Martial's debut season was great and he proved and showed a lot. Your point about Rashford is accurate as well.

 

[sincher]

10 goals in 19(12) appearances. Nice.

 

[sherrinford]

Meh, repeating same thing again and again.

More goals, assists, chances created, passes, better dribble completion rate, pass completion rate, more goal from outside the box but yeah Martial haven't improved from his first season.

Do you actually have your own opinion? The game can’t be reduced purely to statistics and I am astounded by how much some will allow figures to form their opinion. Why not give us your perspective based on what you have actually seen this season compared with previous ones.

I think Martial is having a very good season and has been our best attacker, but I don’t believe he’s improved on his first season which was exceptional. Everything which he has been excelling at this year was evident in his first few games for the club. Over the course of this campaign so far, he has lost a little bit of the explosiveness which was on display constantly in his debut season. His general play is very classy - great hold up play and terrific in confined spaces with quick feet, close control and tendency towards short, crisp passing interplay as well as a cool eye for goal - and has been evident all season.

However, that ability to commit a man one-on-one, to drive at a defender and beat him just isn’t there to anywhere near the same extent at present. His dribbling was that aspect which took him up a level - the close control and sharpness with which he moved is only matched by Hazard currently in the league.

I think a large part of the significant tailing off of this aspect in his play is to do with fatigue. He was in and out of the side plenty last year and began the season as an impact sub. Along with what you would imagine his training habits are like and the demands of the position he has most often been deployed in, it’s easy to guess that his body has not quite been conditioned for a full game or consecutive games. I particularly began noticing a tiredness in him during the Arsenal game.

I’m sure it will come. If it doesn’t, contrary to what some others think I believe he is doing just fine anyway, is someone we can be happy is in the line-up and should be building the side with him in mind as an important player. Of course, Alexis Sanchez could complicate that though...

 

[roonster09]

Do you actually have your own opinion? The game can’t be reduced purely to statistics and I am astounded by how much some will allow figures to form their opinion. Why not give us your perspective based on what you have actually seen this season compared with previous ones.
.

I have given my opinion and on top of it I supported my opinion with some stats.

What do you want to hear? Everything in words? Here it goes. Martial has improved every aspect of his game. Whatever he showed in flashes, it's consistent this season. His link up play with like of Pogba, Lukaku, trying to play one touch passing rather than running with the ball all the time, his shooting from distance, his general decision making, his involvement in the game have improved.

When Shaw plays his game looks even more matured with how they build up the game from left side with Martial taking very good positions than sticking to left by line everytime, he takes very good positions in the box.

Not sure what more to put, it's obvious there is a very good improvement in his game. If you are not using stats to support your argument, this will end up with one person saying "he has improved" with another saying "no, he didn't. He was always this good".

Obviously stats don't tell complete story but when you watch the player every game and the feeling you get is matched by the relevant stats then it's a good to use them.

 

[El Jefe]

I think its pretty clear his long range shooting has improved. Granted it's not of a particularly high level but there is a clear improvement from his first season. In his first season he could barely get any power on his long shots and opted not to shoot most times as shown from him having 12 shots from outside the box in the whole season. This season he shoots more, has a lot more power on the shots and most importantly has scored some too.

Still room for improvement but my expectations are definitely higher nowadays when he shoots from outside the area than in his first season.

 

[bond19821982]

Exciting times if you are a martial fan like me.

He ignores Shaw in good positions which worries me. Guaranteed it takes off one defender and gives you space but still you can play them if they are in a good position.

 

[Damien]

How does he stack up against other French wingers/strikers and what are his chances of making the French WC squad?

Comparison to the other attackers who've been called up recently:

Fourth best mins/goal and second best mins/goal or assist. I'd love him to make the France squad but even with his new starter status for us I think it is touch and go.

 

[ash_86]

He has contract for a year and a half and one more optional year to extend, its time we start talking about his extension. I was browsing one of the Madrid forums and people there are really following him to the game. Madrid is having a horrible season and they would definitely refresh their squad majorly in the summer. We should keep our most priced asserts close and fed well.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

Comparison to the other attackers who've been called up recently:

Fourth best mins/goal and second best mins/goal or assist. I'd love him to make the France squad but even with his new starter status for us I think it is touch and go.

Fecking hell Fekir Thought he was a CAM, why so many goals but so few assists? Does he play striker as well?

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Comparison to the other attackers who've been called up recently:

Fourth best mins/goal and second best mins/goal or assist. I'd love him to make the France squad but even with his new starter status for us I think it is touch and go.

Such ridiculous attacking options. Glad i'm not the manager having to leave some of them out

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Fecking hell Fekir Thought he was a CAM, why so many goals but so few assists? Does he play striker as well?

He plays behind the striker. But yeah, he is doing very well. Wonder where he will end up next summer.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

He plays behind the striker. But yeah, he is doing very well. Wonder where he will end up next summer.

Would be a nice pickup if we don't get Ozil

 

[The Don]

Comparison to the other attackers who've been called up recently:

Fourth best mins/goal and second best mins/goal or assist. I'd love him to make the France squad but even with his new starter status for us I think it is touch and go.

It's mad. The only people on that list, with more goals/assists than Martial, are playing in a glorified pub league. Out of that list, any sane person would be taking Mbappe, Martial, Griezmann and Dembele as nailed on and probably Giroud as a target man. The rest can fight it out for remaining spots.

 

[haram]

It's mad. The only people on that list, with more goals/assists than Martial, are playing in a glorified pub league. Out of that list, any sane person would be taking Mbappe, Martial, Griezmann and Dembele as nailed on and probably Giroud as a target man. The rest can fight it out for remaining spots.

I don't think it is as simple as that. I'm not saying Martial shouldn't go to the world cup, and he probably does deserve to, but you cant just write off players like Fekir because he is playing in France. It wouldn't be insanity to take him. Also depends where the manager needs his attacking options.

 

[The Don]

I don't think it is as simple as that. I'm not saying Martial shouldn't go to the world cup, and he probably does deserve to, but you cant just write off players like Fekir because he is playing in France. It wouldn't be insanity to take him. Also depends where the manager needs his attacking options.

Not so much Fekir but Thauvin, Payet, Gameiro, should not be anywhere near that squad. Choose from Lemar, Coman, Lacazette and Fekir, to accompany the lads I mentioned in my first post.

 

[haram]

Not so much Fekir but Thauvin, Payet, Gameiro, should not be anywhere near that squad. Choose from Lemar, Coman, Lacazette and Fekir, to accompany the lads I mentioned in my first post.

Don't think Lacazette should be anywhere near the squad either tbh. Pretty sure Martial will go anyway.

 

[Silas]

Comparison to the other attackers who've been called up recently:

Fourth best mins/goal and second best mins/goal or assist. I'd love him to make the France squad but even with his new starter status for us I think it is touch and go.

Lacazette's gone under the radar a bit when it comes to underwhelming signings this season.

 

[The Don]

Don't think Lacazette should be anywhere near the squad either tbh. Pretty sure Martial will go anyway.

It would be absolute madness not to take him. Even if you don't plan on starting him, having a game changer like him, at your disposal, is a no brainer.

 

[ash_86]