[Jeffthered]

I'm aware he isn't as good a player as Hazard, don't worry. You named a group of players that are either closer to their prime or playing in a better attacking team and Martial hasn't really been far off the majority of them this season.

I'm not sure why you're complaining about the quality of his assist when you mentioned Sterling in your original post, who's mainly scored tap-ins. Should we discount those too? Regardless of that, clumsy isn't how I'd describe it, as it wouldn't have reached Lukaku in the first place if he didn't pass it that way. You just said he wasn't consistent and now that I've told you that, in terms of output, he's one of the more consistent players in the prem, stats don't matter and I'm twisting them to suit my argument? In what other way can goals and assists be interpreted?

What makes you think he's better than he is? Sounds like a lazy criticism based on his demeanour. Regarding the bolded, I'd suggest you take your own advice

I appreciate all the responses on here, but I think we will have to agree to disagree. And just to state, I have never said that Martial does not have talent. He does. But I do not think it is a special talent, like many do. That's just my opinion. I cannot begin to compare him to the players I previously mentioned (Hazard, Mane, Sanchez etc..) because, again, in my opinion, he isn't on that level. I am surprised some question that. You ask yourself if you could have a Mane, Hazard, Sanchez or Martial, who would you pick? Someone mentioned that Sterling scores lots of tap-ins... and that's my point, Sterling is now far more effective as a player than he has ever been, because he has added those scrappy goals to his game. He isn't the finished article, but his game has advanced. I can't say that about Martial. My two favourite Martial goals this season has been the far post header, and the miskick/shinner against Tottenham. He builds that into his game, that 'I want to score goals, anyhow..' mentality, will make Martial an awesome talent. Is Firminho a better player technically than Martial..? you could argue this is not the case, but who is far more effective in the execution of their game?

Rashford has stepped off the highlight show for a while, and as a v young player who has had such an incredible rise in his game (for both club and country), this is to be expected. I have no worries about Rashford at all.

I just don't think Martial is this special talent some mention. What.. his dribbling? Passing? Shooting (do not say his shooting, please...)? Game intelligence? Goals? I would be the first to eat my hat if he takes that next two steps up... but a special player?

Someone on here stated he is one of the best young players in the world? Steady on.

 

[Number1]

I thought Martial’s performance was like his last one. Scores a wonder goal so criticism seems churlish but, feck me, sometimes he looks like he can’t pass water. So many attacks breaking down because of a wayward pass or just playing with his head down.

Yeah that's the way i saw it. On paper he got a goal and assist, but his all-round performance was sluggish, even his assist wasn't deliberate (it looked half of a shot and a pass) was fired straight at Lukaku.

I'm not just putting this down to an off-game either, it's a typical Martial performance (losing possession/stray passes/missing good chances/not tracking back).

Reading comments here i just can't see what everyone else can see in Martial, i watch him closely often and just don't see this 'superstar' potential.

 

[breakout67]

Its safe to say that anyone still pushing the narrative that Martial isn't wanted by the manager is stubborn and foolish; they don't want to admit that they were wrong; or they have a bone to pick with the manager. There is so much evidence that Martial is rated by everyone at the club; but they all want him to push on.

 

[Damien]

Spoiler

Discounting assists he's still been one of the more productive attckers with Salah and Sterling having a better goals/min rate. Yes, I know it isn't all about goals and assists and I understand the issues with the other facets of his game.

Fair enough with what you say Jeffthered but Spurs tried to sign him last summer and Pedro and Willian haven't had the best of seasons so I could see him fitting into the Chelsea side though that'd be a bit more difficult.

The comments saying they feel he could do more - fair enough. What I don't get is the comments saying they'd swap him for Sanchez instead of Mkhitaryan.

 

[Number1]

What I don't get is the comments saying they'd swap him for Sanchez instead of Mkhitaryan.

I'm not for that trade, but swapping a raw young player who’s career could still go either way, for a world class player and a player who’s been one of the faces of the Premier League past few seasons it wouldn’t be a step back and would be an improvement.

 

[Damien]

I'm not for that trade, but swapping a raw young player who’s career could still go either way, for a world class player and a player who’s been one of the faces of the Premier League past few seasons it wouldn’t be a step back and would be an improvement.

Martial has been one of our better players this season and one of the few who has a genuine understanding with Lukaku on the field. Why opt to take a little step forward instead of taking a big step forward and removing one of our weakest players at the same time.

 

[Toddler]

Yeah that's the way i saw it. On paper he got a goal and assist, but his all-round performance was sluggish, even his assist wasn't deliberate (it looked half of a shot and a pass) was fired straight at Lukaku.

I'm not just putting this down to an off-game either, it's a typical Martial performance (losing possession/stray passes/missing good chances/not tracking back).

Reading comments here i just can't see what everyone else can see in Martial, i watch him closely often and just don't see this 'superstar' potential.

Have you ever played football yourself in competitive level? In my eyes the pass had to be made in a manner Martial executed it to work, hard pass with height to reach lukaku, who was in a good position but hard to reach.

I do think that martial was a bit bad yesterday too overall, but cant take away the goal and the pass, good job. He is not finished product and has to get better but I have faith. We will see.

 

[Greck]

I'm not for that trade, but swapping a raw young player who’s career could still go either way, for a world class player and a player who’s been one of the faces of the Premier League past few seasons it wouldn’t be a step back and would be an improvement.

Rashford more your cup of tea? Can see where you're coming from but in this market, you keep any promising youngster you have and avoid having to spend 100mil finding a replacement in only a few years

Edit: and martial has made that exact pass this season in a CL game to Lukaku who missed the opportunity. Can't be hard to find the highlight if I could be arsed

 

[AR87]

The comments saying they feel he could do more - fair enough. What I don't get is the comments saying they'd swap him for Sanchez instead of Mkhitaryan.

The comments saying they feel like he could do more are honestly quite ridiculous. He has 10 goals and 10 assists in January at age 22. This is an extremely high level of productivity for a player his age. If he starts "doing more" then we're talking about a player who is at the forefront of attackers in Europe.

He has that type of talent to be sure and perhaps that's where the desire to see him do more come in, but he's held to the standard of a superstar player, which I don't think is fair at his age. The fact is we watch Martial every match and as one of our headline young stars his performances get parsed and analyzed to a crazy degree. He's on par with the best attacking talents in his age bracket in the PL like Sterling and Sane who have made similar progression and are roundly praised for it.

No player is perfect. If you're watching Martial and notice flaws in his game that doesn't mean he's not doing enough or is fundamentally flawed in a way that precludes him from joining the elites of the game, it just means like most 22 year olds he has areas to improve in. It is incredibly promising that even with areas he could stand to significantly improve he's extremely productive.

 

[RedStarUnited]

I'll send a few messages to folks and PM them to you if they get back to me with any swiftness.

Back to Pogbas assists;

Martials - Absolutely. A well weighted pass that could be hit first time.
Valencias - No chance. That's a solo goal.

It was to the latter I made my initial point.

So we're clear, I'm not dying on this hill. I don't actually care that assists are now counted by people watching deflections and working out angles using computers on replays. It's the same game.

Solo goal? Mad, Pogba gets the ball and rolls away from 2/3 players and passes it to Valencia with time.

 

[AltiUn]

I'm not for that trade, but swapping a raw young player who’s career could still go either way, for a world class player and a player who’s been one of the faces of the Premier League past few seasons it wouldn’t be a step back and would be an improvement.

I think it'd be a bit of poor choice really, Martial adds a lot of flair and danger to that left wing, he's probably our most naturally gifted attacking player. I think getting rid of him for Sanchez would be a bit short-sighted and more of a step sideways.

 

[caid]

Solo goal? Mad, Pogba gets the ball and rolls away from 2/3 players and passes it to Valencia with time.

I think @UnrelatedPsuedo is right actually.
There was a time when (from my understanding) an assist was only an assist if the player took a shot within like ... 5 seconds of receiving the pass,
or if they only took 3 or less touches.
It led to some weird situations when an incredible pass over the top that put your striker through on goal wasn't an assist because he had to run a bit first

i do think the definition has changed a bit over the years basically.

 

[Number1]

Question to everyone here - Martial as been at United now for 3 years and in my opinion not as good aged 22 as he was at 19, so taken a step back in his progress in my view, my question is in another 3 years time, when Martial is 25, if he just stays at the level he is now, how would you view him?

Would it still be a case of Martial or we can improve on him?

I can't see how people think he's fantastic and this world class player now, so is it just the potential people like? As said above i struggle to even see the 'potential' but well aware people see things differently so just trying to get a general perspective why he has so many fans.

 

[Hellboy]

he could the best number 9 in the world. We should give him a new deal asap

 

[Steven Seagull]

Question to everyone here - Martial as been at United now for 3 years and in my opinion not as good aged 22 as he was at 19, so taken a step back in his progress in my view, my question is in another 3 years time, when Martial is 25, if he just stays at the level he is now, how would you view him?

Would it still be a case of Martial or we can improve on him?

I can't see how people think he's fantastic and this world class player now, so is it just the potential people like? As said above i struggle to even see the 'potential' but well aware people see things differently so just trying to get a general perspective why he has so many fans.

Honestly if you can’t see the potential I doubt anybody would be able to explain it to you.

What do you think he’s worse at now than he was 3 years ago?

 

[Number1]

Honestly if you can’t see the potential I doubt anybody would be able to explain it to you.

What do you think he’s worse at now than he was 3 years ago?

I can see potential but i can't see this 'world class' potential.

I think he's worse at a lot of things, taking players on, deciding matches (Martial scores the 3rd and 4th goals nowadays).

He's had his critics this season from people within the game (Gary Neville etc) and was sat on the United bench from August to November and only just recently got back in the France squad for a friendly after 18 months not getting selected, so I'm not sat on a boat on my own with those views and something clearly as not been right.

Martial even admitted this himself in a recent interview, saying he wasn't motivated enough last season, which shocked me. How can a young player playing for Manchester United and on maybe £80k-100k a week not be motivated enough? If that can't motivate you, what can?

Set a few alarm bells ringing with me anyway in how much self-motivation he as to progress as a player.

 

[caid]

Question to everyone here - Martial as been at United now for 3 years and in my opinion not as good aged 22 as he was at 19, so taken a step back in his progress in my view, my question is in another 3 years time, when Martial is 25, if he just stays at the level he is now, how would you view him?

Would it still be a case of Martial or we can improve on him?

I can't see how people think he's fantastic and this world class player now, so is it just the potential people like? As said above i struggle to even see the 'potential' but well aware people see things differently so just trying to get a general perspective why he has so many fans.

If hes stayed at the same level he'd just about be good enough for our first team imo. Maybe Nani level who definitely had his uses but was never going to be playing every week.

 

[AR87]

I think he's worse at a lot of things, taking players on, deciding matches (Martial scores the 3rd and 4th goals nowadays).

Scored the winner against Tottenham and opened the scoring for us against Everton just off the top of my head.

 

[Damien]

Scored the winner against Tottenham and opened the scoring for us against Everton just off the top of my head.

Scored the deciding goal away to CSKA Moscow (we won 4:1, he scored the second and set up the other three with two of the assists being a cross to Lukaku) and when we went 1:0 down to Newcastle he equalised.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Question to everyone here - Martial as been at United now for 3 years and in my opinion not as good aged 22 as he was at 19, so taken a step back in his progress in my view, my question is in another 3 years time, when Martial is 25, if he just stays at the level he is now, how would you view him?

Would it still be a case of Martial or we can improve on him?

I can't see how people think he's fantastic and this world class player now, so is it just the potential people like? As said above i struggle to even see the 'potential' but well aware people see things differently so just trying to get a general perspective why he has so many fans.

We are about to Make Sanchez our highest earner apparently, Martial has better stats than him this season.

Eden Hazard is about to be Madrids next galactico signing.Martial has better stats than him this season.

If you struggle to see the potential given the above statements, theres no point in debating what he can become in 3 years.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

 

[snk123]

I can see potential but i can't see this 'world class' potential.

I think he's worse at a lot of things, taking players on, deciding matches (Martial scores the 3rd and 4th goals nowadays).

He's had his critics this season from people within the game (Gary Neville etc) and was sat on the United bench from August to November and only just recently got back in the France squad for a friendly after 18 months not getting selected, so I'm not sat on a boat on my own with those views and something clearly as not been right.

Martial even admitted this himself in a recent interview, saying he wasn't motivated enough last season, which shocked me. How can a young player playing for Manchester United and on maybe £80k-100k a week not be motivated enough? If that can't motivate you, what can?

Set a few alarm bells ringing with me anyway in how much self-motivation he as to progress as a player.

This post is overflowing with stupidity. Can you please make it a little less ridiculous?

 

[Number1]

We are about to Make Sanchez our highest earner apparently, Martial has better stats than him this season.

Eden Hazard is about to be Madrids next galactico signing.Martial has better stats than him this season.

If you struggle to see the potential given the above statements, theres no point in debating what he can become in 3 years.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

As said yesterday, stats can paint a false picture. Martial's stats for yesterday was 1 goal and 1 assist, but in my opinion and many other opinions on the RedCafe he didn’t play well.

 

[Greck]

This post is overflowing with stupidity. Can you please make it a little less ridiculous?

Pretty much a collection of myths and strawmen. This won't end constructively

 

[mav_9me]

@GifLord we need it on a loop

Is there a clip?

 

[Number1]

This post is overflowing with stupidity. Can you please make it a little less ridiculous?

If you've nothing constructive to add don't post.

At least I'm explaining why i think what i do, if you don't agree that's fair enough, that's football (different views) and that's what this message board is for, to talk about different views.

 

[snk123]

As said yesterday, stats can paint a false picture. Martial's stats for yesterday was 1 goal and 1 assist, but in my opinion and many other opinions on the RedCafe he didn’t play well.

He didn't play well but got a fecking beautiful and crucial goal. Messi and Ronaldo don't play well 90 minutes every fecking game. Get over it.

 

[Adisa]

Question to everyone here - Martial as been at United now for 3 years and in my opinion not as good aged 22 as he was at 19, so taken a step back in his progress in my view, my question is in another 3 years time, when Martial is 25, if he just stays at the level he is now, how would you view him?

Would it still be a case of Martial or we can improve on him?

I can't see how people think he's fantastic and this world class player now, so is it just the potential people like? As said above i struggle to even see the 'potential' but well aware people see things differently so just trying to get a general perspective why he has so many fans.

He's a better player than when he arrived

 

[Brigante]

Martial is one of the best in the team this season, i'm glad for him, he is one of the most talented player in Europe, but i still have the impression he is a lazy player..

 

[tomaldinho1]

Question to everyone here - Martial as been at United now for 3 years and in my opinion not as good aged 22 as he was at 19, so taken a step back in his progress in my view, my question is in another 3 years time, when Martial is 25, if he just stays at the level he is now, how would you view him?

Would it still be a case of Martial or we can improve on him?

I can't see how people think he's fantastic and this world class player now, so is it just the potential people like? As said above i struggle to even see the 'potential' but well aware people see things differently so just trying to get a general perspective why he has so many fans.

He had a great debut season in a lackluster team - we over-hyped him, we loved him and expected the same again. Mou comes in, also some shake up in Tony's personal life and he struggles for minutes and form. Wins over Mou, is having a decent season again and looks set to smash his goals record from the first season (11 - he's already on 8) but he's not as good as when he came in? Martial at 25 will be a f*cking phenomenon if he keeps his head down and works hard.

 

[Adisa]

He also never said he was unmotivated.
He said he was dealing with personal issues.

 

[Damien]

Martial even admitted this himself in a recent interview, saying he wasn't motivated enough last season, which shocked me. How can a young player playing for Manchester United and on maybe £80k-100k a week not be motivated enough? If that can't motivate you, what can?

Link please.

 

[Number1]

Link please.

My apologies on that, 'focused' was the word not 'motivation'.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ll-news/man-utd-news-anthony-martial-13959811

"I had some problems off the pitch [last season] that played in my head," he told teleFoot. "I wasn't really focused".

 

[Damien]

His face on the slow motion replay on the goal

That cheeky look on his face on the close-up when he knew he hit it so sweetly

Is there a clip?

Is this it? Downloaded the first half and this is the closest thing I could find.

 

[Greck]

My apologies on that, 'focused' was the word not 'motivation'.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ll-news/man-utd-news-anthony-martial-13959811

"I had some problems off the pitch [last season] that played in my head," he told teleFoot. "I wasn't really focused".

Did you miss the embarrassing scandal that happened between he and his wife? That would destabilise any 21 year old.

 

[OL29]

Question to everyone here - Martial as been at United now for 3 years and in my opinion not as good aged 22 as he was at 19, so taken a step back in his progress in my view, my question is in another 3 years time, when Martial is 25, if he just stays at the level he is now, how would you view him?

Would it still be a case of Martial or we can improve on him?

I can't see how people think he's fantastic and this world class player now, so is it just the potential people like? As said above i struggle to even see the 'potential' but well aware people see things differently so just trying to get a general perspective why he has so many fans.

I honestly can't understand how you can't see his potential. When you marry his dribbling ability with his end product at such a young age, his world class potential is evident. But then again, you tried to say that his assist last night was accidental so it seems obvious that you just don't like the guy.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Is this it? Downloaded the first half and this is the closest thing I could find.

No, it was a slow motion of him straight after striking the ball. Sky showed a close up during half time.

 

[Damien]

No, it was a slow motion of him straight after striking the ball. Sky showed a close up during half time.

Ah that'll be why. I'll try and find it.

 

[Rado_N]

Is this it? Downloaded the first half and this is the closest thing I could find.

Nah, as he struck it, the ball probably wasn't even in the net yet

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

The fact there is a constant debate about Anthony Martial is significant. In my opinion, I don't see all this greatness that some feel he 'potentially' has. He isn't great around the box. Make some comparisons to similar players ok... Mane, Salah, Leroy Sane... Sterling (who has added to his game by scoring scrappy, critical goals and improving his effectiveness..) Ali, Hazard... and er, Sanchez.. attacking forwards who are clearly more effective and more of a threat than Martial. CONSISTENTLY.

Martial needs to improve and I get the feeling he has ended up believing his own hype. Opening up his body and firing right-foot shots into the net will only ever get him so far. He is one-dimensional and over-rated. All this talk about being the best finisher at the club is more of a testimony to where we are as an attacking side.

Martial is a good Champions League player, who can score the odd good goal. But, on his current form, he is no potential Man Utd star. If he is what Man Utd consider top-talent, then we aren't winning a thing. He wouldn't add or improve Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham, or Man City because he isn't better than the players there.

So why is he good enough for us? No left foot. You hardly see him head the damn thing. ALWAYS cuts inside and complicates the game, and narrows the pitch. He doesn't do the extraordinary. He slows the game down, and he isn't good enough to dictate games. Limited work-rate (just compare to Rashford) Sorry, I see a decent player, who is still working out who is as a player. and he isn't some new player / arrival at United.

I would take Sanchez in exchange for Martial and a few million in a heartbeat.

But I think I am in the minority on here with these opinions, and this is fair enough.

Lol you don't even watch him play.

 

[Damien]

Nah, as he struck it, the ball probably wasn't even in the net yet

No, it was a slow motion of him straight after striking the ball. Sky showed a close up during half time.

This? Sorry about the quality. Right nightmare trying to get it.