[Devil may care]

Him and Rashford are always looking to link up, decent 20 minutes stretch of the legs before Sunday.

 

[jungledrums]

Always good to have decent debate. I disagree that Martial's strength is his dribbling.. this is a concern, as it seems that he is being 'pushed' into this bracket.. the top 'dribbler'. I don't even know what that actually means... the Martial who arrived on the scene, scored diving headers, scrappy goals, great goals after a run... goals with decent finishes ( Watford last week...).. my point is he could have it all! But a dribbler? This is one of his faults, he tends to slow a game down, to keep the ball under his feet at times... against Arsenal, he was more free, more fluid.. him, Lukaku, Lindgard.. Pogba... they were just awesome, power, pace, technique... but they didn't destroy Arsenal through great dribbling.

Martial can travel with the ball well, of course... but look at those who I have compared him to in terms of dribbling... Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldhino.. these are amazing players, who can run, and drift, or simply bemuse a defender, and go past him, and they do this with pure instinct and style. Martial is NOT this type of player, and I don't think that is the Martial we want or need. We want Martial the goal-scorer, and goal-maker. He has decent technical qualities, but consider him and say, Pogba: who is the better dribbler? Who can beat a man more effectively? Pogba is a special talent, and he can do this.. Martial isn't that type of player. It doesn't mean he is a bad player, just not that type of player and I worry about him complicating his game.

I never mentioned anything about hugging touchlines or wing-play. Suggesting that he doesn't need to be able to go outside a marker, in addition to his ability (and at this stage, far too obvious option) to cut inside is strange... If Anthony Martial develops a decent left foot (remember Ronaldo did exactly this at Man Utd) this would enhance his game incredibly.

How can you possibly believe this? He’s the best dribbler in the squad. He quite literally ghosts past opponents with ease.
Also, how does he slow play down?! Honestly, do you even believe what you wrote?

 

[In Rainbows]

Yeah last time I checked he had a 60+% success rate for attempted dribbles which is really high and one of the best in Europe. Haven't checked recently though.

 

[roonster09]

Hopefully he'll play his best game against city. With Pogba out, he is that player who can turn game out of nowhere.

 

[iamherenow]

martial is different gravy..

 

[T A]

Hopefully he'll play his best game against city. With Pogba out, he is that player who can turn game out of nowhere.

5:44 looks a bit like Nani on his old best days, eh? Sometimes I can see the similarities between those two

 

[Adam-Utd]

He and Pogba are my favourite players. He's so exciting to watch, I can't believe how often he got benched it's really frustrating.

So great to see that he's been starting games recently though, hope he smashes the derby.

 

[ash_86]

Such a fantastic player. Waiting for Otamendi to left nutmegged on the ground

 

[Shark]

I couldn’t be happier that he’s having a great season so far. He had a difficult 2nd season, as most players do new to this league. When he elevates his game to yet another level, which he will, he will be absolutely devastating.

 

[Arka_BleedingRed]

Always good to have decent debate. I disagree that Martial's strength is his dribbling.. this is a concern, as it seems that he is being 'pushed' into this bracket.. the top 'dribbler'. I don't even know what that actually means... the Martial who arrived on the scene, scored diving headers, scrappy goals, great goals after a run... goals with decent finishes ( Watford last week...).. my point is he could have it all! But a dribbler? This is one of his faults, he tends to slow a game down, to keep the ball under his feet at times... against Arsenal, he was more free, more fluid.. him, Lukaku, Lindgard.. Pogba... they were just awesome, power, pace, technique... but they didn't destroy Arsenal through great dribbling.

Martial can travel with the ball well, of course... but look at those who I have compared him to in terms of dribbling... Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldhino.. these are amazing players, who can run, and drift, or simply bemuse a defender, and go past him, and they do this with pure instinct and style. Martial is NOT this type of player, and I don't think that is the Martial we want or need. We want Martial the goal-scorer, and goal-maker. He has decent technical qualities, but consider him and say, Pogba: who is the better dribbler? Who can beat a man more effectively? Pogba is a special talent, and he can do this.. Martial isn't that type of player. It doesn't mean he is a bad player, just not that type of player and I worry about him complicating his game.

I never mentioned anything about hugging touchlines or wing-play. Suggesting that he doesn't need to be able to go outside a marker, in addition to his ability (and at this stage, far too obvious option) to cut inside is strange... If Anthony Martial develops a decent left foot (remember Ronaldo did exactly this at Man Utd) this would enhance his game incredibly.

Look, there are basically different types of dribblers. One, dribblers like Pre-Madrid Cristiano, Ronaldinho, Neymar, Mahrez, Brahimi, Pogba, Ribery, Dembele etc. who mainly use skills, tricks and pace to beat an opponent. Another type is like Bale, Rashford, Henry who mainly use power, pace and occasionally skillful moves to beat theirs. Yet another category of dribblers like Martial, Messi, Hazard, Ronaldo R9, Robben, Mbappe who rely on their close control of the ball, taking very short, deft touches of the ball rather than tricks, alongwith their superb change of pace and sometimes power(in case of Robben, Martial, R9) in their dribbles, to move the ball away from their opponents. Martial has the ability to be in the elite level of dribblers, and this season, he has already shown much more consistency in his dribbling. So much more is to come from him.

 

[Rozay]

Hopefully he'll play his best game against city. With Pogba out, he is that player who can turn game out of nowhere.

Plenty of evidence to highlight what is simply a ‘lie’ that he doesn’t and needs to ‘learn’ how to go on the outside of a full back. Was being banged on about a few days ago.

 

[Fergies Formula]

Wow that video

 

[Trizy]

Hopefully he'll play his best game against city. With Pogba out, he is that player who can turn game out of nowhere.

And to think a lot of people on here think Rashford is better than Martial.

 

[Scorpy]

Hopefully he'll play his best game against city. With Pogba out, he is that player who can turn game out of nowhere.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

And to think a lot of people on here think Rashford is better than Martial.

I don’t think they do, just that he impacts the game in a different way to Martial. I think Martial is a better dribbler and finisher. But the thing I like about Rash is that he maintains high intensity and will always be a threat during the 90 minutes, although the quality may sometimes be inconsistent.

Anyway let’s not start this here. Both are fantastic, young and playing with hunger with plenty of room to grow and I love that we have both of them. I love Lingard as well for that matter.

 

[Womp]

And to think a lot of people on here think Rashford is better than Martial.

I haven't really seen many people say that. I've seen people say the difference between them isn't as big as people make out, which is true. I wouldn't be surprised if both went onto becoming top players.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Plenty of evidence to highlight what is simply a ‘lie’ that he doesn’t and needs to ‘learn’ how to go on the outside of a full back. Was being banged on about a few days ago.

And 'he isn't a good dribbler'. There are probably 20 sets of ankles getting destroyed in that clip alone.

Stunning that people don't recognise the real deal when they see it

 

[Damien]

We almost made it a week without a Rashford/Martial comparison here in this thread. Progress.

 

[Rozay]

We almost made it a week without a Rashford/Martial comparison here in this thread. Progress.

Is odd, especially after a good Rashford showing in midweek. I think it had subsided for a while with Martial clearly playing much better, but I did think a Rashford return to form would re-ignite and bring those who had been insisting he was better to reaffirm their position.

 

[SwansonsTache]

We should get him on a new contract asap and not leave it late like we usually do.

Edit: The deal he is currently on ends in june 2019, so only a year and a half left.

 

[snk123]

I did think a Rashford return to form would re-ignite and bring those who had been insisting he was better to reaffirm their position.

Well it's going to be difficult for some like @haram - as all he had to say on this was that Mourinho knows better than you all and he's selecting Rashford for a reason.

Don't know what he'll say now since Mourinho has started selecting Martial. You really leave no choice for a discussion if you say the manager is always right.

 

[Pexbo]

We almost made it a week without a Rashford/Martial comparison here in this thread. Progress.

The Rashford thread made better progress this week though.

 

[haram]

Well it's going to be difficult for some like @haram - as all he had to say on this was that Mourinho knows better than you all and he's selecting Rashford for a reason.

Don't know what he'll say now since Mourinho has started selecting Martial. You really leave no choice for a discussion if you say the manager is always right.

I said Rashford was better for the left. Shouldn't play on the right. I had no problem with Martial playing when we played 3 at the back. Let's just get that out of the way. I have no problem with Martial either. I wanted him to play vs Arsenal instead of Rashford as well.

Completely wrong that "all I had to say" was that Mourinho knew better. No. Just wrong.

He does know better. My arguement was way deeper than that however. We can go through discussions I have had about playing Martial and Rashford at the same time, Mata being better than Rashford on the right etc. It's not just about Mourinho knowing better.

Don't want to make this about Martial vs Rashford again. I repeat I want the team to do well and I have no problem with Martial starting over Rashford in the current system. We were just not playing this way the whole season. That's all.

I got stick for saying Rashford and Martial should not play at the same time on each wing. I got stick for saying I think Rashford is better on the left than Martial, especially against packed defences. Regardless, it was never just about "Mourinho knows better". People will pick at me for Martial's good form, like it is supposed to be hard for me to take. I always said Martial was talented. I want him to do well, it would be absurd to feel any other way. People didn't like me for saying Rashford is better on the left. I hope this clears everything up, because I have noticed a few people making remarks about me across some of the threads.

This isn't just directed at you btw, I just wanted to make things clear.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Him and Lukaku on top is pretty ideal against City. Lukaku as the link-up man, passing it on to Martial in the advanced positions to dribble and counter-attack, where we've always benefitted the most from him.

 

[Dobbs]

I said Rashford was better for the left. Shouldn't play on the right. I had no problem with Martial playing when we played 3 at the back. Let's just get that out of the way. I have no problem with Martial either. I wanted him to play vs Arsenal instead of Rashford as well.

Completely wrong that "all I had to say" was that Mourinho knew better. No. Just wrong.

He does know better. My arguement was way deeper than that however. We can go through discussions I have had about playing Martial and Rashford at the same time, Mata being better than Rashford on the right etc. It's not just about Mourinho knowing better.

Don't want to make this about Martial vs Rashford again. I repeat I want the team to do well and I have no problem with Martial starting over Rashford in the current system. We were just not playing this way the whole season. That's all.

I got stick for saying Rashford and Martial should not play at the same time on each wing. I got stick for saying I think Rashford is better on the left than Martial, especially against packed defences. Regardless, it was never just about "Mourinho knows better". People will pick at me for Martial's good form, like it is supposed to be hard for me to take. I always said Martial was talented. I want him to do well, it would be absurd to feel any other way. People didn't like me for saying Rashford is better on the left. I hope this clears everything up, because I have noticed a few people making remarks about me across some of the threads.

This isn't just directed at you btw, I just wanted to make things clear.

However you clarify it you did use the "Mourinho knows better" card. As another poster points out it leaves you nowhere to go when the manager then changes his mind.

For further clarification if we switched back to a 4-4-1-1(or whatever) tomorrow would you want Martial dropped for Rashford?

 

[Varun]

Guys, there is a martial vs rashford thread, use that.

 

[haram]

However you clarify it you did use the "Mourinho knows better" card. As another poster points out it leaves you nowhere to go when the manager then changes his mind.

For further clarification if we switched back to a 4-4-1-1(or whatever) tomorrow would you want Martial dropped for Rashford?

He does know better. That's just what it is. If people dont want to accept that, then. That's on them. I was using it to say that Mourinho knows what playing Martial on the left would entail. He would know what playing Martial and Rashford at the same time would entail. Yet, people kept screaming about it like Mourinho was daft for not seeing it. That's what my point was. When Rashford played poorly on the right, people either went quiet, asked us to sign another RW or said we ahould keep forcing it until he was good at it, which I disagree with.

On the left? It's difficult. Martial is in good form, and City wont be defending deep so there might be space for him. The only thing is, Rashford is probably better taking the ball from deep positions and driving with the ball than Martial, and has a better work rate. Not knocking Martial, as his defensive work rate in particular is a bit underrated.

I have no definitive opinion on it tbh. Either way, both would be good weapons. It's a difficult situation because rarely will we go into a game where we are the ones sitting deep for most the game, whilst being the underdog. I don't really know how we would approach the game in a 4411.

Guys, there is a martial vs rashford thread, use that.

Sorry, I was making my post whilst this was posted.

 

[Buchan]

Hopefully he'll play his best game against city. With Pogba out, he is that player who can turn game out of nowhere.

What a player.

 

[kouroux]

Plenty of evidence to highlight what is simply a ‘lie’ that he doesn’t and needs to ‘learn’ how to go on the outside of a full back. Was being banged on about a few days ago.

I know exactly who you have in mind lolz
edit: It's also obvious that his best has always come from when he is on the left so far, even if his futur might be as a central striker. He can be a joy to watch. A very hard player to defend against in 1v1

 

[Ish]

We almost made it a week without a Rashford/Martial comparison here in this thread. Progress.

Aye, don’t get the type at all. Especially when they do it in each players individual threads.

Just be glad we have them both and hope they stay in form.

 

[yfoFC]

If he can put in a top performance against city then it'd go a long way into martial reaching hazard's heights which is where I see his talent taking him.

He's already scored against spurs, assisted against arsenal so now please do it against the noisy neighbours our able Tony!

 

[Trizy]

We should get him on a new contract asap and not leave it late like we usually do.

Edit: The deal he is currently on ends in june 2019, so only a year and a half left.

With a £150m buy out clause.

 

[Damien]

With a £150m buy out clause.

I'd rather him not have a clause at all - especially after the last summer.

 

[Rozay]

I said Rashford was better for the left. Shouldn't play on the right. I had no problem with Martial playing when we played 3 at the back. Let's just get that out of the way. I have no problem with Martial either. I wanted him to play vs Arsenal instead of Rashford as well.

Completely wrong that "all I had to say" was that Mourinho knew better. No. Just wrong.

He does know better. My arguement was way deeper than that however. We can go through discussions I have had about playing Martial and Rashford at the same time, Mata being better than Rashford on the right etc. It's not just about Mourinho knowing better.

Don't want to make this about Martial vs Rashford again. I repeat I want the team to do well and I have no problem with Martial starting over Rashford in the current system. We were just not playing this way the whole season. That's all.

I got stick for saying Rashford and Martial should not play at the same time on each wing. I got stick for saying I think Rashford is better on the left than Martial, especially against packed defences. Regardless, it was never just about "Mourinho knows better". People will pick at me for Martial's good form, like it is supposed to be hard for me to take. I always said Martial was talented. I want him to do well, it would be absurd to feel any other way. People didn't like me for saying Rashford is better on the left. I hope this clears everything up, because I have noticed a few people making remarks about me across some of the threads.

This isn't just directed at you btw, I just wanted to make things clear.

To be fair, you said, regularly, that ‘Rashford was just ‘better’’ too. You said he had ‘surpassed Martial’ and was a better player than him, quite matter-of-factly, usually within minutes of a game in which Rashford scored in or Martial didn’t.

 

[Rozay]

Guys, there is a martial vs rashford thread, use that.

Didn’t that get locked around the time Martial became a fixture in the side?

 

[Dante]

Is odd, especially after a good Rashford showing in midweek. I think it had subsided for a while with Martial clearly playing much better, but I did think a Rashford return to form would re-ignite and bring those who had been insisting he was better to reaffirm their position.

There aren't really many Rashford-obsessives in the same way.

There are Martial-mentalists on the one side and realists on the other, as evidenced by the relative sizes of their player performance threads. When Martial plays better that's great. When Rashford plays better, it's a sign of the Apocalypse that can only be avoided by playing Martial instead.

 

[Ban]

I always hate bumps in player performances thread before games, I always think someone's inured.

 

[Greck]

We should get him on a new contract asap and not leave it late like we usually do.

Edit: The deal he is currently on ends in june 2019, so only a year and a half left.

SAF used to renew contracts 2 years to the contract's end then someone in the higher ups switched to a policy of renewing them in the last year. An idiotic cost saving decision I felt. Should at least make exceptions for exceptional talents

 

[SwansonsTache]

With a £150m buy out clause.

In this day and age that won't be enough. PSG would trigger that clause without blinking if he fullfills his potential.

 

[Rozay]

There aren't really many Rashford-obsessives in the same way.

There are Martial-mentalists on the one side and realists on the other, as evidenced by the relative sizes of their player performance threads. When Martial plays better that's great. When Rashford plays better, it's a sign of the Apocalypse that can only be avoided by playing Martial instead.

I agree that it probably seems like that, however, my personal opinion are those who have come down on the ‘Martial side’ are closer to ‘realists’.

I think Tony is further along in his development and a more developed player at the moment. That said, I think it’s quite noticeable that I haven’t observed a theme of anyone putting Rashford down now that Martial has been playing ahead and performing well. It’s just a sense of ‘finally’ - but it seems more geared to playing our best team (in their opinion) than putting Rashford down.

I also think there is a third sub-group you didn’t mention, which sort of balances the support for both players - and that is the ‘Mourinho apologists’, for want of a better term. Like, I don’t think it was as much a pro-Rashford army before as it was a pro-Mourinho one. That manifested a lot in putting Martial down at the expense of Rashford, and a large part of why the debate is quieter now is because they had nailed their flag so clearly when Rashford was playing, it would be stupid to say how much of a genius Jose is now for playing Martial as it directly contradicts a lot of what they said earlier.

Take the Arsenal game. I doubt anyone really disagreed that Martial should have started. That said, many of the same people who agreed, would have not said they ‘disagreed’ if Rashford started instead. They would have attacked ‘Martial FC’ and used some sort of rationale to justify Rashford actually deserving to start instead, but would have only done so once revealed Rashford was actually the one starting.