[Kag]

Was talking about all-round game, I suppose the term "output" was confusing. They seem to be more intelligent in their decision making for one thing, from the little I have seen of them this season.

Like I said, it was just a mild observation. He is overrated slightly here and needs to improve, but compared to Mata or Mkhi, him and Rashford are the least of our problems.

"From the little I have seen of them" being the key phrase. You watch every minute Martial plays, therefore intensify the focus on his weaknesses. Sane and Sterling will have their issues with consistency all the same. As has been pointed out, statistics show that Martial is just as, if not more, productive in front of goal.

I think Martial is certainly a better player than Sterling and there's not a lot in between he and Sane. I'm just glad he plays for us because over at City he would look incredible. Goal a game sort.

 

[bosnian_red]

I am not into deep thinking analysis. Going with what I see here.

Simple fact is Martial shows talent and deserves minutes, but is highly overrated. At his age and with the game time he is getting, I expect him to have the same output as Sane or Sterling, who he should be compared with. Sure, they are in a better team, but their individual game is well-developed as well and they score goals on a regular basis.

We simply give Martial 8/10 ratings whenever he shows good movement, or dribbles past a defender, etc. That is overrating him. Without actual end-product, all these flashy skills are useless.

He can be given time, but he needs to massively improve in comparison to his peers like the ones mentioned above, more consistency is required. He had a decent game last night, but he needs to do much more than that.

Martial is normally far more productive then both of those. And he has a good output this season so I'm not sure what you're saying. Sterling's end product is normally awful but City this season has so far been a "stat padding team", getting loads of players in brilliant positions consistently and setting up easy goals. Hard to compare, and definitely the type where stats can be misleading because of the team their in. Sane of course is a very good player, but more of a creator and less a scorer then Martial normally. Sterling just has awful end product normally but with his pace and the way they play, he is on the end of a decent amount of tap ins or passing it for the tap in. Also, keep in mind that they've both played more minutes then martial and are regular starters, compared to martial being rotated all the time.

Because of this, hard to tell how good they are. Same as players for Barca. They just create so much chances that everyone tends to have very good stats, regardless of if they are that good or not.

 

[Adisa]

Back in the French squad according to L'equipe.

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

Finally some respect on Tony's name.

Easily United's most dynamic offensive player. Great to see him getting his due on the national team. Not far away from being a world class player. Has upped his consistency a lot so far to start the year and it's all he's really missing + consistent minutes. Patience

 

[Rednotdead]

I don’t understand views like this. Just because a good player is young doesn’t mean they need to improve dramatically or are a failure.
This opinion was stated constantly with regards to Rooney while he put in season after season of great performances befitting an attacker for a top side, as if somehow not elevating his game to the point of being mentioned with football’s all time greats alongside Ronaldo meant he wasn’t fulfilling his potential, had regressed and wasn’t good enough. It’s nonsense. Rooney, Ronaldo, Hazard, Fabregas - all young players who were, around the age of 20, showing enough quality to be a mainstay for their clubs.
Martial is in that bracket. He had a great first season - not ‘for his age’ or any other caveat. He had a great first season - period. This season has seen a return to that player after a very poor year.
Could he improve? Of course there are various aspects of his game that could be better and things he should work on. This, however, is true of all players regardless of age or position.
The truth is, players often don’t improve on the weak points in their game to any great extent. They develop and grow within the confines of their natural abilities and tendencies. We can all hope that Martial more adequately looks to run in behind and provide a penetrative run for his teammates. The likelyhood is that he will only marginally improve this (if at all), and will continually prefer the ball to feet. However, he will consistently cause defenders problems with his direct dribbling from this position, as that is his greatest strength.
In spite of any detrimental aspects of his playing style, he has the requisite quality right now as he is.
Martial is in that group of top Premier League creative forwards with Hazard, Coutinho and Sanchez - he has that level of skill, imagination and individual quality. He does not need to do anything other than what he’s doing now to be considered a top player. He could play as he did in his first season, or as he has been playing so far this season, for the next decade for us and he would be a great player.

Goodness!! Give him the Ballon D'Or right now!! Who are you, his agent?

The highlighted text - sorry, I'm just not having that. It's just plain wrong. He's nowhere near that standard. if he were he'd be undroppable. He isn't.

 

[kouroux]

Finally some respect on Tony's name.

Easily United's most dynamic offensive player. Great to see him getting his due on the national team. Not far away from being a world class player. Has upped his consistency a lot so far to start the year and it's all he's really missing + consistent minutes. Patience

Finally ? The previous call-up is the only one he "unfairly" missed.

 

[Damien]

Confirmed.

 

[el3mel]

Very good for his confidence.

 

[breakout67]

Goodness!! Give him the Ballon D'Or right now!! Who are you, his agent?

The highlighted text - sorry, I'm just not having that. It's just plain wrong. He's nowhere near that standard. if he were he'd be undroppable. He isn't.

Sanchez got 49 goals and assists last season, 49! He's the closest thing to Messi and Ronaldo we have in this league.

Martial is not on the same planet as Sanchez.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Happy for him.

 

[Santoryo]

Good for him.

 

[yfoFC]

This sudden narrative of martial having inconsistent end product is baffling to me just because of one game in which he displayed such traits

Last season he was poor but was still the most productive player per minutes asides zlatan so that shows even when he's playing badly he doesn't lack end product

Honestly asides on Tuesday I genuinely cannot remember a game this season where he has made poor decisions to such a degree so I wonder why it is now seen as this great weakness of his

Yes I'd love it if he made better decisions on a consistent basis but it hasn't been an evident problem in his play this season that I can recall

 

[Bwuk]

I am not into deep thinking analysis. Going with what I see here.

Simple fact is Martial shows talent and deserves minutes, but is highly overrated. At his age and with the game time he is getting, I expect him to have the same output as Sane or Sterling, who he should be compared with. Sure, they are in a better team, but their individual game is well-developed as well and they score goals on a regular basis.

We simply give Martial 8/10 ratings whenever he shows good movement, or dribbles past a defender, etc. That is overrating him. Without actual end-product, all these flashy skills are useless.

He can be given time, but he needs to massively improve in comparison to his peers like the ones mentioned above, more consistency is required. He had a decent game last night, but he needs to do much more than that.

Another on this forum w*nking off City players without realising what we have.

For this season...

Sterling goal/assist every 78 mins.
Sane goal/assist every 65 mins.
Martial goal/assist every 56 mins.

Maybe Sterling/Sane should improve to get on his level?

If Martial played for City I can only imagine what this place would say about him. Whilst Pogba has been out, Martial and Rashford have been the only creative force in our side, as for Mkhi and Mata - the less said the better this season. Imagine how much better they'd do with KdB/Silva/Bernardo supplying them rather than our defensive midfielders.

 

[Kapardin]

Another on this forum w*nking off City players without realising what we have.

For this season...

Sterling goal/assist every 78 mins.
Sane goal/assist every 65 mins.
Martial goal/assist every 56 mins.

Maybe Sterling/Sane should improve to get on his level?

If Martial played for City I can only imagine what this place would say about him. Whilst Pogba has been out, Martial and Rashford have been the only creative force in our side, as for Mkhi and Mata - the less said the better this season. Imagine how much better they'd do with KdB/Silva/Bernardo supplying them rather than our defensive midfielders.

If you noticed my later post, you'd see I clarified what I meant by "output", ie, all-round game. Was a poor choice of words, perhaps.

Plus, I hardly ever gush over City players. Actually one of the few who prefer the football Jose plays over almighty Pep and his players.

 

[Bwuk]

If you noticed my later post, you'd see I clarified what I meant by "output", ie, all-round game. Was a poor choice of words, perhaps.

Plus, I hardly ever gush over City players. Actually one of the few who prefer the football Jose plays over almighty Pep and his players.

His out put is fine.

We would look better if we had a decent number #10 and a right winger.

Messi has a worse goals/assists per minute ratio this season than Martial. I'm not saying Martial is as good, or anywhere near as good as Messi, but my point is he is far from the issue in our side.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Pretty sure neither Sterling nor Sane have scored 17 goals in a season before. I'm also quite sure that both of them have been criticised in the past, during times where their form wasn't as good as it is at the moment.

 

[breakout67]

This sudden narrative of martial having inconsistent end product is baffling to me just because of one game in which he displayed such traits

Last season he was poor but was still the most productive player per minutes asides zlatan so that shows even when he's playing badly he doesn't lack end product

Honestly asides on Tuesday I genuinely cannot remember a game this season where he has made poor decisions to such a degree so I wonder why it is now seen as this great weakness of his

Yes I'd love it if he made better decisions on a consistent basis but it hasn't been an evident problem in his play this season that I can recall

Martial's strongest attribute is his end product. He is one of the best finishers in the squad. His close ball control is probably the best in the squad.

I don't think its a narrative that will gain traction, because Martial last season was average but still had very good end product.

 

[yfoFC]

Martial's strongest attribute is his end product. He is one of the best finishers in the squad. His close ball control is probably the best in the squad.

I don't think its a narrative that will gain traction, because Martial last season was average but still had very good end product.

Agreed, I have every confidence in him to banish those thoughts/narrative from here on out

 

[sherrinford]

Goodness!! Give him the Ballon D'Or right now!! Who are you, his agent?

The highlighted text - sorry, I'm just not having that. It's just plain wrong. He's nowhere near that standard. if he were he'd be undroppable. He isn't.

Sanchez got 49 goals and assists last season, 49! He's the closest thing to Messi and Ronaldo we have in this league.

Martial is not on the same planet as Sanchez.

What I’m saying is that he’s of the required calibre to consistently play for a title challenger in the Premier League, for the type of player he is (as he is now, at this moment in time). Which would group him with Sanchez, Hazard and Coutinho.
I’m not saying he’s on par with them all. I’m not saying they’re all at the same level. Sanchez is a great player and did have an incredible year, and for me Hazard is the league’s best player and the one I would describe as being the closest thing to Messi and Ronaldo in England.
That doesn’t take away from the quality that Martial has shown and is showing. Neither is the fact he is young and has many years in which to get better. That is my point. A good performance from him should not be tempered by the fact there is a better player outdoing him for a rival team, or by comparing his performances to the hypothetical ones of the potentially stronger player it’s hoped he can become.
As things stand, Martial is good enough to play for this team week in, week out. His current performances show him to be our most consistently skilful, creative and dangerous attacking player. The notion that he needs to improve in order to force his way into the line-up more consistently is a fallacy.
You say he hasn’t improved at all in over two years at the club, I don’t disagree with that statement purely as it is. However, within the context of your post, you imply that he needs to - that he is essentially not good enough right now. I completely disagree. He warrants a constant starting place for United at this moment in time, and in 5 years if he still hasn’t improved that won’t mean he’s not good enough then either.

 

[Android1974]

Very good for his confidence.

One more thing to tip the balance in his favor, Mourinho should take that into account. But truth is he hasn't started any of our three games with Chelsea last season.

 

[Dante]

Another on this forum w*nking off City players without realising what we have.

For this season...

Sterling goal/assist every 78 mins.
Sane goal/assist every 65 mins.
Martial goal/assist every 56 mins.

Maybe Sterling/Sane should improve to get on his level?

If Martial played for City I can only imagine what this place would say about him. Whilst Pogba has been out, Martial and Rashford have been the only creative force in our side, as for Mkhi and Mata - the less said the better this season. Imagine how much better they'd do with KdB/Silva/Bernardo supplying them rather than our defensive midfielders.

He's only scored or assisted in 1 of the 6 games he's started this season.

Statistics.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Sterling and Sane are not on the same level as Martial. The difference is, they have a manager that backs them and starts them as much as possible. Make Martial (and Radford) as our starters and his numbers will start reflecting that.

 

[haram]

Sterling and Sane are not on the same level as Martial. The difference is, they have a manager that backs them and starts them as much as possible. Make Martial (and Radford) as our starters and his numbers will start reflecting that.

They are on his level.

 

[Womp]

Sterling and Sane are not on the same level as Martial. The difference is, they have a manager that backs them and starts them as much as possible. Make Martial (and Radford) as our starters and his numbers will start reflecting that.

Lol

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

They are on his level.

No they are not. I have watched City play this entire season. Sane and Sterling are genuine quality players, but the system which they are a part of is excellent. The off the ball movement, opening of passing lanes and creating space is a result of highly productive coaching. Martial would thrive under those conditions. Personally, Martial's base talent is above the City duo.

 

[haram]

No they are not. I have watched City play this entire season. Sane and Sterling are genuine quality players, but the system which they are a part of is excellent. The off the ball movement, opening of passing lanes and creating space is a result of highly productive coaching. Martial would thrive under those conditions. Personally, Martial's base talent is above the City duo.

So it's Mourinho's fault, ok.

 

[ti vu]

No they are not. I have watched City play this entire season. Sane and Sterling are genuine quality players, but the system which they are a part of is excellent. The off the ball movement, opening of passing lanes and creating space is a result of highly productive coaching. Martial would thrive under those conditions. Personally, Martial's base talent is above the City duo.

Off ball movement is players' quality. There is an extend you can coach a player in that aspect. Berbatov was added to our team, and no amount of coaching would make him a different player and suit our style under SAF. Sterling, Sane were always like this previously. Pep improved the team play, but he doesn't fundamentally and miraculously changed a player into something else. Martial's off ball movement had been a thing to be worked on, that went back to his time at Monaco with Jardim. And Jardim for all we know can coach a flying attacking side. If it's coaching, why was there the problem Jardim needs to work with Martial? Portuguese coaches' problem picking on Martial?

Back to Martial, happy he got called up for France NT again, but don't know how their team would look. There are still many players having similar role.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

So it's Mourinho's fault, ok.

Do you even watch our games, mate? Our attack is static as hell and Martial is still putting up numbers. Just like he did in the 2015/2016 season.
About my earlier point, it's not like there isn't a precedent for it. Kagawa was a fabulous player in a excellent system, and we saw how mediocre he was when placed in our system. Martial is thriving inspite of that.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Off ball movement is players' quality. There is an extend you can coach a player in that aspect.

I distinctly remember Ribery and Robben improving in their off the ball movement once Pep took over. But maybe I don't remember it right.

 

[ti vu]

Do you even watch our games, mate? Our attack is static as hell and Martial is still putting up numbers. Just like he did in the 2015/2016 season.
About my earlier point, it's not like there isn't a precedent for it. Kagawa was a fabulous player in a excellent system, and we saw how mediocre he was when placed in our system. Martial is thriving inspite of that.

Chelsea use similar approach to us. The difference in dynamism is from players' own quality. Pedro, Willian, Hazard off ball movement are strong. It is not like Martial is asked to hold his position all the time or Mkhi to lose the ball when the first challenge come at him.

I distinctly remember Ribery and Robben improving in their off the ball movement once Pep took over. But maybe I don't remember it right.

I can't tell for what you remembered. Robben improved his defensive workrate in Bayern Treble season. He was not all that in the first half of the season though. They both were always good with their off ball movement. Way way before Pep took over, Robben was key player for Netherlands team making WC 2010 final. If not for his own off ball quality, he wouldn't play that well in a team that negative.

 

[haram]

Do you even watch our games, mate? Our attack is static as hell and Martial is still putting up numbers. Just like he did in the 2015/2016 season.
About my earlier point, it's not like there isn't a precedent for it. Kagawa was a fabulous player in a excellent system, and we saw how mediocre he was when placed in our system. Martial is thriving inspite of that.

Yes I do watch our games. Martial needs to improve his movement and attacking work rate. Kagawa was not good enough for Manchester United. Neither is Mkhi. Both weak players.

Mourinho is worth more than Martial to us. The sooner people realise that, the better.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Yes I do watch our games. Martial needs to improve his movement and attacking work rate. Kagawa was not good enough for Manchester United. Neither is Mkhi. Both weak players.

Mourinho is worth more than Martial to us. The sooner people realise that, the better.

 

[NoPace]

Sterling and Sane are not on the same level as Martial. The difference is, they have a manager that backs them and starts them as much as possible. Make Martial (and Radford) as our starters and his numbers will start reflecting that.

I don't agree with this at all. Sane and Sterling are told to stick wide and then brilliant playmakers give them clean passes and chance after chance to run at their fullbacks one on one. If Martial was at City he'd be doing well because he'd be skinning right backs in the final 3rd, which we don't really provide in our system.

 

[Santoryo]

This sudden narrative of martial having inconsistent end product is baffling to me just because of one game in which he displayed such traits

Last season he was poor but was still the most productive player per minutes asides zlatan so that shows even when he's playing badly he doesn't lack end product

Honestly asides on Tuesday I genuinely cannot remember a game this season where he has made poor decisions to such a degree so I wonder why it is now seen as this great weakness of his

Yes I'd love it if he made better decisions on a consistent basis but it hasn't been an evident problem in his play this season that I can recall

Pretty much this.

Martial and poor end products or final decision making don't go hand to hand. He's normally very clinical in front of goal and his decision making has always stood out which is why evenue in a poor season he managed to contribute better numbers than his peers in the team.

The last game was an aberration in terms of decision making rather than a norm.

So you're right, seeing this sudden narrative about him having poor decision making after a one off game in that regard is quite wierd. Than again fans are a fickle bunch.

 

[Santoryo]

If you noticed my later post, you'd see I clarified what I meant by "output", ie, all-round game. Was a poor choice of words, perhaps.

Plus, I hardly ever gush over City players. Actually one of the few who prefer the football Jose plays over almighty Pep and his players.

Even going by all round game, your post was silly. Sterling doesn't have the all round game Martial has, your point had no basis whatsoever.

 

[Gbenger]

He's only scored or assisted in 1 of the 6 games he's started this season.

Statistics.

Stop peddling falsehood.

 

[Fracture90]

No they are not. I have watched City play this entire season. Sane and Sterling are genuine quality players, but the system which they are a part of is excellent. The off the ball movement, opening of passing lanes and creating space is a result of highly productive coaching. Martial would thrive under those conditions. Personally, Martial's base talent is above the City duo.

This, exactly this. City as a team is constantly creating space for their wingers to isolate their defenders, hence why Sane is so efficient. Now imagine Martial with having so many iso opportunities during the game when he's left 1 on 1 vs the defender...with his superior dribbling skills to Sane and Sterling he would explode.

 

[Litch]

Wouldn't swap Sterling or Sane for Martial. His ceiling is much higher and has the best of both attributes already. The issue isn't Martial, it's the need to upgrade some of the players around him.

 

[Escobar]

Jose should implement a setup that would free him up and give him more space, similar to what Fergie did with Ronaldo. Too often, we do not manage to get him into play constantly and one reason is that we dont have a good enough LB (who too often does not go for the overlap either)

 

[Dobbs]

Yes I do watch our games. Martial needs to improve his movement and attacking work rate. Kagawa was not good enough for Manchester United. Neither is Mkhi. Both weak players.

Mourinho is worth more than Martial to us. The sooner people realise that, the better.

Unless you can predict the future I've no idea how you can make said statement.

I don't really understand why it's a discussion at all.