People on here are so quick to criticise him and then defend themselves by saying he can do no wrong in the eyes of others. He actually did nothing wrong, the way people put him down on here is mental, he's 21 and he'll have an excellent career somewhere.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
This is his 3rd season with us?
First season : great.
Second season : bad (by his own first season standard)
Third : we shall see.
Point is with 1 good 1 bad its still a small sample and he can go either way. There's no vindication to people saying that he'll come good if given time, or vice versa people saying he's finished.
Think he'll get quite a few minutes against Madrid. Rashford seemed to limp off and Lukaku played the full game so I expect him to start up top.
Be a hard game for him to seize his opportunity but I really hope he shows he is much better through the middle than out wide.
Be a hard game for him to seize his opportunity but I really hope he shows he is much better through the middle than out wide.
Think too many people are fixating on a 25 minutes cameo. From what I've heard, the game was flat when he came on.
I've seen the highlights of the other game and he looked positive.
Let's wait to see how he performs over the next series of games. In any case, he's starting the season off the bench. He has to work his way into the team.
I've seen the highlights of the other game and he looked positive.
Let's wait to see how he performs over the next series of games. In any case, he's starting the season off the bench. He has to work his way into the team.
I really want this boy to succeed for us. More natural ability than anyone except Pogba. Alas, he can't succeed at United without the support of Manager, whoever he is.
Yep. You can tell it has become agenda driven.The overreactions in this thread are pretty funny. It's as if people are just waiting for it.
The kid along everyone else who got brought later hardly did anything either good or bad due to the team basically just seeing the game out, yet here we are with some people acting as if he put in some awful performances on the pitch.
Was at at the game and I was keeping a keen eye on him even without the ball. I thought he was okay when with the ball but, reluctant to take Walker on one on one. He looked quite intent though, linking up nicely with Pogba and getting a couple nice balls out of his feet when being double teamed. And that's the the one thing though about Martial - teams tend to double down him quite fast. We need to figure out how to better support him and take advantage of it more rather than letting him get isolated.
It's weird but, I get frustrated by the fact we don't have a proper winger but, then I find myself being critical for Martial not roaming and getting into positions like Lingard/Mkhi do from the other side. I like that he gives us an outlet but, then we just don't find him often enough it seems.
It's weird but, I get frustrated by the fact we don't have a proper winger but, then I find myself being critical for Martial not roaming and getting into positions like Lingard/Mkhi do from the other side. I like that he gives us an outlet but, then we just don't find him often enough it seems.
Support from LB is needed for that and we have Darmian and Blind getting the most minutes there.
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I felt sad for him yesterday considering he got to play with fellaini and Carrick and not with mkhi and Herrera. He needs to be judged when playing with more skilful players. One thing I want him to do more is take on players. He just stops and passes backwards or sideways. He needs to be more bold.
Mourinho?
Unfortunately, this is what happens when a manager publicly calls out players. Creates a toxic environment in the fan base, with all the top reds jumping head first ASAP to wrap their lips around the managers bellend whenever they can.
Some good points being made that aren't based on needless criticism.
The way I'm starting to see Martial is that what he's good at, and hence what he does more often than not, is restricted to a very defined area of the pitch. If you draw a line that fans out from slightly off center of the goal mouth, toward the left hand corner of the area, that's where nearly all his runs take place, and where most of his goals have come from whether as a wide forward or as a central striker. He has a tunnel vision for it, to the point that if he doesn't get the ball in that area, he either looks like he's not quite sure what to do, or he waits for something to happen there.
Sometimes it works out and he looks very good, and sometimes he's shut out and doesn't really have an alternative. Though having an attacking fullback to overlap with would probably help him a lot, I still think it all means he's better suited as a back up #9 at this point. Having an extra player to draw attention around the area he thrives in would give him more space and freedom to concentrate on goal.
Obviously a talented player with a lot of potential, but he needs do round his game out a little more and gain confidence outside his comfort zone.
The way I'm starting to see Martial is that what he's good at, and hence what he does more often than not, is restricted to a very defined area of the pitch. If you draw a line that fans out from slightly off center of the goal mouth, toward the left hand corner of the area, that's where nearly all his runs take place, and where most of his goals have come from whether as a wide forward or as a central striker. He has a tunnel vision for it, to the point that if he doesn't get the ball in that area, he either looks like he's not quite sure what to do, or he waits for something to happen there.
Sometimes it works out and he looks very good, and sometimes he's shut out and doesn't really have an alternative. Though having an attacking fullback to overlap with would probably help him a lot, I still think it all means he's better suited as a back up #9 at this point. Having an extra player to draw attention around the area he thrives in would give him more space and freedom to concentrate on goal.
Obviously a talented player with a lot of potential, but he needs do round his game out a little more and gain confidence outside his comfort zone.
I don't think he'll be going anywhere this season.. but, I do sense this is kind of make or break for him this coming season at United. Another campaign with him being inconsistent and I can't see him staying here the following year.. Which is a shame because I feel he'd produce more from a striker position then left wing..
We actually do need a left winger which I can understand all the talks of Peresic because he's an out and out winger not an inside forward so to speak.
Like to see Rashford/Martial interchange striker positions with Lukaku if we play 3-5-2 see more out of Martial through the middle then has an inside forward.
We actually do need a left winger which I can understand all the talks of Peresic because he's an out and out winger not an inside forward so to speak.
Like to see Rashford/Martial interchange striker positions with Lukaku if we play 3-5-2 see more out of Martial through the middle then has an inside forward.
I wouldn't mind loaning him out if we signed a winger. It could work out well for him and United especially if he goes to a club with a good attacking coach. He could learn a lot away from limelight and with little pressure.
He wasn't a starter last night and didn't do much when he came on. It will be a long, hard road back to first choice winger and I hope he's up for it because he has the talent.
This exactly.
Then it should be last chance saloon for Mata, Mkhitaryan, Rashford and Lingard as well. Neither reached double figures in both assists and goals last season.
I think it's really unfair this guy is deemed to be a cr*p striker when he doesn't really get to play there.
Move him to any club & he will struggle at LW. Play him as a CF he will be successful for 90% of the teams.
LVG's final season seem to have changed peoples mind about him because of his handful of good games at LW. Thing is he was only moved there due to rashfprd & the front 3 of martial, rashfprd & Lingard formed so late in to the season that we couldn't change to the most appropriate formation.
LVG had no intention to primarily move martial TO LW & if he had stayed for another season, LVG would have put Anthony & Marcus upfront with Lingard behind in a 352.
Our fans should unite and use our heads - there is poor management of Martial currently & he shouldn't be judged on the same basis of goals and assists. If we start making these random noises even on a forum - it will start making noises in around the club.
Move him to any club & he will struggle at LW. Play him as a CF he will be successful for 90% of the teams.
LVG's final season seem to have changed peoples mind about him because of his handful of good games at LW. Thing is he was only moved there due to rashfprd & the front 3 of martial, rashfprd & Lingard formed so late in to the season that we couldn't change to the most appropriate formation.
LVG had no intention to primarily move martial TO LW & if he had stayed for another season, LVG would have put Anthony & Marcus upfront with Lingard behind in a 352.
Our fans should unite and use our heads - there is poor management of Martial currently & he shouldn't be judged on the same basis of goals and assists. If we start making these random noises even on a forum - it will start making noises in around the club.
This.
Both Shaw and Martial went from Caf darlings to being obsessively hated(by some) in a blink since Mourinho made his public criticisms about them.
Fans are truly fickled. This has become quite bad and has reached that agenda level of looking for the slightest things to complain about.
This post match is just further proof. A performance to pretty much not say or write much about given the nature of the game in its closing stage(team looking to see the game out and going through the motions in the last 20 or so minutes) has turned into a debate about how awful Martial was.
Some people are truly and utterly embarrassing.
What's embarrassing is you jumping to assumptions and defending two individuals who you have no association with to the death. Shaw and Martial are being criticised because they deserve to be, not because it's fecking agenda driven. The same way you and many others on this forum criticise Jose, the players are also not free from criticism.
No-one is jumping to conclusions over a pre-season game, no-one gives a feck about the pre-season game. What's frustrating people is that in those 20 minutes it's still blindingly obvious he isn't improving the areas of his game that made him so fecking predictable last season. Playing with lesser teammates and the game being 'dead' doesn't excuse the fact that he offers feck all in terms of movement.
Christ this forum sometimes, not being able to criticise anyone without getting attacked as some agenda driven bozo. I would be over the moon if Shaw and Martial became mainstays in our team, but they're not at the moment. Lingard fecking offers more than Martial does to the team's balance, which is a joke in itself and Blind who's not even a natural defender has taken Shaw's spot, which is telling.
Shaw has been here for what, 4 years now and has had about 6 very good performances for us. When are we allowed to expect more? Players are investments, they're not your friends, if they don't perform they'll be replaced, the same way the manager or coaches will.
All you lot claiming criticising the players is an embarrassment when all you constantly do is criticise the manager, using him as reasoning for us fans expecting more from underperforming players? Get a grip. We expect more because we are Manchester United and these are talented players who are playing nowhere near their potential and it's no-one else's fault but their own.
No-one is saying we should sell them or get rid, in fact most claim they want them to succeed but expecting more isn't embarrassing. As a counter-measure, I'd argue your expectations as a fan of this club dropping to the levels it has is embarrassing. Martial isn't going to have balls fed into his feet all game under every manager he works for in his career, it's up to him to understand that and put in the extra work to improve. Rashford is improving everyday and we are still talking about Shaw's and Martial's glory days two years ago, feck that, I expect more from Manchester United players and if that's embarrassing so be it.
This has feck all to do with Jose Mourinho, in fact it's the complete opposite, if SAF was still manager, I'd expect even more from Martial and Shaw.
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This! Thank you.
Not to turn this into a Rashford vs Martial debate as I rate both but up until April, Rashford looked like he was deteriorating. The difference between the two is that Rashford was allowed to play through his poor form whereas Martial was consigned to the bench. I don't think it's really fair to compare the two given the differential treatment they get. Martial made visible.
You're very vocal in this thread and the fact that you are so critical after a 20 minute performance but didn't comment on his previous performances which were by all accounts very promising does make it seem like you have a bit of an agenda. Maybe you expect more from Martial which is fair enough given his talent but you could at least show some balance.
This is a massive season for Martial, I still don't know if he's a 9 or better coming from the left wing but either way he needs to work his ass of to get back into the team and then keep working his ass off to stay in it
Can't see it ending positively tbh which is a shame because based on his first season he should be one of the first names on the team sheet
Can't see it ending positively tbh which is a shame because based on his first season he should be one of the first names on the team sheet
What agenda? He was average in his previous performances and as I already mentioned, I don't care for pre-season performances, especially ones against feckin MLS teams, what's bothering me is the fact that the glaring weaknesses in his game don't seem to be improving. Martial was and still is one of my favourite players in the squad, I've got his jersey two years running, but his performances since the Euros onwards haven't been good enough.
Rashford was allowed to play through his form, which is true, but the myth that Mattial wasn't given a similar chance is laughable. He was poor at the start of the season and was still a mainstay in the team, he was consistently picked despite being poor. He was given chances throughout the rest of the season too, yet didn't take them. He only started being marginalised a little when we got to the business end of the season and results were all that mattered (and suprisingly, he was still poor). We are Manchester United, we will always have players competing for positions, just as Nani and Valencia did for so many years under SAF. Funnily enough the excuses people use for Martial is the same shite we use to hear about why Valencia was preferred by SAF to Nani, it turns out he just didn't have the mentality to make the next step though. All the excuses being used for Martial we heard for Nani. He's being expected to track back, he's being played out of position, he's not being given a chance to play into form etc. we've heard it all. Is Martial in the same camp? I don't know, I hope not.
Also claiming the only reason Rashford is inproving is due to regular game time is wrong. It's obvious Rashford's mentality and drive is far superior to Martial's. Evident by the fact that rashford was training and staying fit all pre-season where all we saw from Martial was him chilling on a boat. Not to add the words of the manager confirming as much etc. There's a reason Jose has taken such a liking to Rashford.
You can go back and look at my previous posts from a while back on Martial, I'm a big fan of his, but I'm not going to turn a blind eye to how poor he is currently. That being said, he isn't my mate, apart from the fact that he plays for the club I support, I don't give a shit about him. If he plays well, I'll love him, if he doesn't I'll be happy to give him time, but I will expect more. He's trying to catch up to his previous form when instead he should already be adding more to his game and improving, he's too busy playing catchup to himself. Knowing how good he was is even more reason why it's so frustrating.
How many years of excuses will we have to live through before some players begin being held responsible for their form? Giving them such a free pass is the reason 4th place has been our best finish since SAF left.
He is coming off the back of a poor season and is down the pecking order, he should be hungry and eager to prove a point, instead we are seeing the same Martial from last season. Yes, it may change and yes he may improve, but currently that isn't the case, so he should be judged as such. I'd love nothing more than to have Martial in form as it'd help our prospects of winning a title. After all, I support Manchester United and not Anthony Martial.
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The frustration with Martial is that he has the ability to perform to a much higher level than he is. That frustration escalates because United are severely lacking in quality attacking players. You look at the squad, try to see how the attack can be improved and Martial stands out as the one with the ability to rejuvenate the attack.
Martial and Rashford are young players with great ability but incomplete games. If they were bit part players, they could come in and out of the side and develop at their own pace. But they can't because the club doesn't have enough other quality attacking players.
The club has made a lot of mistakes over the last few years but in 2 years going from 4 strikers (RVP, Rooney, Chicharito and Welbeck) to an over the hill Rooney and 2 kids was the biggest mistake by far. They spent a fortune in transfer fees and ended up with a far worse squad in the area where it's most expensive to recruit.
Martial and Rashford are young players with great ability but incomplete games. If they were bit part players, they could come in and out of the side and develop at their own pace. But they can't because the club doesn't have enough other quality attacking players.
The club has made a lot of mistakes over the last few years but in 2 years going from 4 strikers (RVP, Rooney, Chicharito and Welbeck) to an over the hill Rooney and 2 kids was the biggest mistake by far. They spent a fortune in transfer fees and ended up with a far worse squad in the area where it's most expensive to recruit.
@Womp give it a rest mate.
He's not a Mourinho player. It's as simple as that.
Mourinho is the manager and he needs his players to play his way.
Mourinho is the manager and he needs his players to play his way.
He'll probably be starting the Real Madrid game, so we will have a better chance to judge his performance then.
I think Womp makes a fair point that has been discussed several times already, Martial's movement is not improving. He is not the hardest worker by nature, never has been, and the fact that he's still not showing improvements regardless of the stage or level of competition is a cause for concern.
It doesn't mean he won't play, or even make an impact, but it does worry his overall prospects of becoming a potential world-class attacker.
I don't think what happened to him was so much of a second season syndrome, and more of defenders having more of a sample size of how to deal with Martial, because without the ball at his feet, he becomes far more predictable in attack. He has all the talent in the world, but I'm afraid his mentality will affect him in realizing his potential. I hope I'm wrong because I'm a big fan, and you hope Mourinho turns him into a hard-worker, but there's more chances it doesn't happen rather than will IMO.
It doesn't mean he won't play, or even make an impact, but it does worry his overall prospects of becoming a potential world-class attacker.
I don't think what happened to him was so much of a second season syndrome, and more of defenders having more of a sample size of how to deal with Martial, because without the ball at his feet, he becomes far more predictable in attack. He has all the talent in the world, but I'm afraid his mentality will affect him in realizing his potential. I hope I'm wrong because I'm a big fan, and you hope Mourinho turns him into a hard-worker, but there's more chances it doesn't happen rather than will IMO.
You basically ask question & answer yourself there. We lack width on left wing so Martial was supposed to try maintain width, but he's not a winger so at times lack the understanding of how to do it properly. He shouldn't drift inside, but should be more ambitious by taking the defender on, which his instinct seems to be only doing so in certain area where he's comfortable while winger can start a run deep. Winger is also tasked to get the defender pulled to him & create the space between the defender & CBs so his teammate can exploit. The other problem with Martial is when he pulled fullback out, he doesn't know how to set the play to the players in good from winger point of view. He has a fair share of passing a pointless back pass to our dull full back who ended up recycling possession & break the supposed attack down.
I am not criticize him or analyze his pre season game, just call a spade a spade what Martial's game is about. I think we're actively seeking for a winger & Martial would eventually be tried in forward position where his instinct lies. And thanks for the info. It confirmed what I wrote yesterday about I did see Martial seems to be sharper & has more intensity (despite no proper application yet due to the nature of pre season game) now than he was last season.
I think the signs are good so far for Martial. He's brought an intensity to his game so far this preseason and there were numerous times against City that he tried that run in behind the full back. Exactly what people wanted from him, and yet he's still getting pelters?
Some of the passes into his path were too short so nothing much came from these runs, but he still did fine overall, linked up well with others and retained the ball well enough. If he takes this attitude right through the season then he'll have a good year.
Some of the passes into his path were too short so nothing much came from these runs, but he still did fine overall, linked up well with others and retained the ball well enough. If he takes this attitude right through the season then he'll have a good year.
When Martial embraces the role of beeing a winger, he will light up the league.
I think you're reading into things too much to be honest. You criticise him for sharing pictures of himself on a boat as if this gives some insight into his attitude, which to me says more about you than him.
You've also come to the conclusion that he's not improved or looking to improve on his weaknesses on the basis of a 20 minute cameo yet you're happy to ignore his other appearances this pre season as you don't deem the opposition to be of high enough quality.
Don't you think you should wait at least a few weeks into the season before forming a conclusion. With the sort of attitude you have towards Martial I really wonder how you felt about a young Ronaldo. Not that Martial is as talented as Ronaldo but I remember similar comments about him being made by some fans. People were complaining that he's still a show pony etc. You do realise that players develop at different rates right? Look at someone like Coutinho. He was flogged for pennies at a similar age to Martial yet now he's one of the most valuable players around. I think you should show a bit more patience.
You're way off the mark about what I'm trying to convey in my posts. Firstly, I never said he wouldn't improve, nor did I make my judgement on the basis of a few pre-season games. This is a common theme that has occurred with Martial before he even came to United, his movement and energy. It's been evident since his Monaco days. In his great season with us, it was still quite shit, it was only not put into the limelight as he was playing in a system that suited him to a tee, where the team was built around him and he was flourishing. Yes it's true that players improve at different speeds, that's completely understandable, which was addressed in my post as to why I wouldn't get rid and would be happy to give him patience. That being said, improvements in a player's game isn't sudden, they are gradual. The problem with this is, Martial has been here for years and the glaring weaknesses in his game aren't improving, he's remaining static.
Also comparing him to Ronaldo and Coutinho are completely different scenarios. Martial isn't even on the same planet as Ronaldo and Coutinho just really needed to be given a proper chance. No-one is out for Martial's head, nor am I not showing him patience, in fact I've claimed multiple times that I wouldn't want us to get rid, but turning a blind eye to everything and accepting his poor performances isn't how I'm going to take things. Anyone associated with the club who isn't performing will be judged the same. If Jose doesn't improve us next year he'll be judged, so would Herrera or Pogba or whoever.
These opinions weren't created on the basis of 20 minute cameos. I don't watch pre-season games to see how well the players play, I watch to see if they are up to fitness and if they are improving in the areas they should be. So far I don't see that from Martial, that doesn't mean he won't improve though. As I said, I would love to see him improve, it'd save us having to pay a feckload of money to buy yet another left sided player.
Fair enough, I get what you're trying to say. I just think you're being overly harsh on Martial. I didn't watch him at Monaco so I won't comment on his deficiencies from then but if he was to return to his form from his first season, do you think his movement would still be seen as such an issue? I personally believe it wouldn't be a problem as long as he was banging them in but obviously it all comes down to Mourinho's demands.
Basically Jose told you that Martial wasn't playing well last season and you drone on about it to show how knowledgeable you are. Extremely tedious.
Annoyingly it wouldn't even be that hard to change his game for the better, he just needs to understand that by making runs forward regularly it'll actually earn him more space for when he does want the ball to feet.
Defenders know now that he always wants to drop deep and get the ball to feet, so they will happily stick tight to him. If he mixes it up a bit and drops in the quickly spins in behind at full speed they will think twice about getting too tight and will back off. Being unpredictable is the best asset an attacker can have.
I wonder whether because he's quite a muscly explosive body type, whether he actually has the stamina to play wing regularly. He reminds me of Hazard in that sense, they both use so much energy busting forward with speed and strength that they're tired out after tracking back also. He takes the easy option for getting the ball where he can run at his own pace.
I'm being harsh on him because we all know how good he can be. It's the same reason why I'm not jumping on Lingard's back, becuase he'll always be a okay player, whereas with Martial he's capable of so much more, it's frustrating to see him regressing if anything.
If he was performing to the level he was in that one season with us, I'm sure no-one would give a feck about his movement
but he's not, whether it's because he was figured out or he's lacking in confidence, I don't know. Regardless, even if he was performing those standards, he'd eventually have to add to his game and improve as all top players do.He's a top talent and it'd be a shame to see him fail here but thankfully he still has lots of time to turn it around. It's just extremely frustrating seeing him play these days, especially given what he can do.
I'm sure Martial and Lingard are both really concerned about you opinion.I'm being harsh on him because we all know how good he can be. It's the same reason why I'm not jumping on Lingard's back, becuase he'll always be a okay player, whereas with Martial he's capable of so much more, it's frustrating to see him regressing if anything.
If he was performing to the level he was in that one season with us, I'm sure no-one would give a feck about his movement
He's a top talent and it'd be a shame to see him fail here but thankfully he still has lots of time to turn it around. It's just extremely frustrating seeing him play these days, especially given what he can do.
You've got to be one of the worst posters on here, I genuinely get a kick out of your nonsense.
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