Lingard+Martial+Rashford in one player would be something. Lingard has more spacial awareness and better movement than both Martial and Rashford
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
Lingard+Martial+Rashford in one player would be something. Lingard has more spacial awareness and better movement than both Martial and Rashford
Off the ball, surely? Because there's no way on this green earth that Jesse moves better on the ball than Rashford much less Martial.
Agree with this. I still think Martial would be better centrally. Maybe it's the era I grew up in but right footers on the left just doesn't quite work(Unless their shooting is dangerous from distance).
I don't think he's played up front at all though under Mourinho. So that suddenly being changed seems unlikely.
Mourinho has said that he does see Martial as a striker, but only in the right formation/system of playing.
Well that's positive for those who think he should be. Slightly confused as to what this so far untried formation might be though.
I think for a Mourinho team it'd have to be in a Benzema style at Madrid, where shit load of goals come from the wings.
We defo don't have that right now.
Yeah maybe. Seems a bit harsh on Martial as there aren't many high scoring wingers out there.
I'm just a bit frustrated at seeing our young players burdened with defensive responsibilities. Or marginalised on the wings.
Off the ball yes
I mean like not too soon either. I'm all up for Ibrahimovic having the number 09 shirt as long as it's beneficial to our young strikers who have in their short careers done much more than expected. Eventually I'd like to see us partner them up rather than blow money on someone like Kane.
Off the ball lingard is the best reader of the game.. His positioning is fantastic.
Agree there.
Lord have mercy. Look. I have no idea why someone is complaining about lack of variation / off the ball movement. (Well, to be honest, i have a pretty good idea, but i don't think i'm allowed to write it without getting an angry PM and a ban), not to mention the comparisons with Mikhi. In the system he's being played, he has a large defensive role to play and against Liverpool his supporting players were Darmian and Pogba (who happened to be pretty fecking useless all match). The few times Darmian overlapped him, it went fine. For the majority of the time he received the ball and was isolated against minimum 2 players with a third one moving in. You can either attempt to play it back or you can attempt to get past the players. Neither are likely to succeed. It's not Fifa where you can just press pass before receving the ball. Not to mention the blindingly obvious bits about having to decide which runs to take and which runs not to take, he's supposed to back up Darmian when Liverpool attack. Against Boro and Reading, we he had less to worry about defensive wise and he was one of our best attacking players, with "lack of variation / movement off the ball" the least of his issuess, so lets not pretend that it's a general issue with the way he plays
Lets not really pretend that Mikhi constantly got the ball out of his feet very quickly and that it was all tidy quick passing and great off the ball movement, and lets not forget that when Mikhi gets the ball on the right side he has two extremely energetic players in Herrera and Valencia, either giving him an overlap option down the side or in central.
I have little understanding for peoples desperation with finding issues.
Against Liverpool he attempted, according to fourfourtwo, 6 take ons where 3 out of 6 were successful. In terms of IQ, i'd have a slightly bigger focus on why someone is trying to convince themselves that this is a huge issue. Against Boro 7 out of 9 take ons successful.
People get a shiny new toy and the previous one is suddenly full of flaws.
It's funny.
I think Jose needs to have more faith in him. Play him more league games and don't drop him will increase his confidence each games and at the same time he will convert them into consistent performance. If he doesn't play good for three games in a row then we can drop him. He had a great game and probably motm against Middleborough and then the next game he was dropped. I hope he starts against Stoke this weekend.
I do believe he's our best option on the left. He scored 11 league goals last season and I know he has great potential.
I do believe he's our best option on the left. He scored 11 league goals last season and I know he has great potential.
I love Ibra but whilst he's here not sure whether it hinders Martial and Rashfords development. Not sure how many chances we get to see either play through the middle where I think they Would be very effective. I think the wide positions are really difficult to play, teams can easily double up on you, you have to have good crossing ability and need to also know your defensive duties. The position can really expose you and can be a confidence killer.
I'd love to see Martial supported by a pacey left back who could overlap. would be a nightmare for defenders
Jose likes to have one attacking fullback and one more defensive one - at United the attacking one is Valencia so that's where most of the attacks will come from if they come down a wing. At Chelsea it was usually Ivanovic.
You can't predict Jose. He said he likes specialist in his team. And everyone expect Valencia won't be a right back since he wasn't a specialist right back. Everyone think Blind will be sold since he's not specialist. Ivanovic isn't exactly attacking right back in my opinion. He was better in his defending than in his attacking role.
Shaw and Valencia were our full backs at the start of season. So Jose doesn't always favour one attacking full back and one more defensive one. Just imagine how great it will be if Shaw can get his fitness back again. We are going to bombering both opposition's right and left constantly. This way it will be less predictable as well because the opposition team will find it difficult to predict which side we are going to use the most and obviously it will help Martial too.
Last edited:
To be fair in my initial post, I did acknowledge he does have very little support and that only half of the problem was down to him.
So yes, I still believe half the problem is down to him and it's surprising to see you have such a reaction to seeing why other people see that. In the wide context of things, he's still so young, playing/stuck in a position where he doesn't get the ball enough so there's a lot of sympathy from me but you can't excuse the lack of movement, which is very very evident, even from last season.
Maybe his 'fault' is, he's playing the tactical instructions down to a tee. I don't think Mata/Lingard (the times he has played on the left) have been 'given' a license to roam (which they clearly do), they just do imo. Whether that's game intelligence, selfishness or just unknowingly doing it, that adds variety to our game. I'd like to see Martial do that more. He's either got to be selfish with demanding the ball by being more central and/or he's got to make runs and force the passer to play him in. That's a clear weakness in his game.
I find it somewhat amusing that your nick is criticalanalysis, but all you are posting is personal opinions. Not to mention that you're trying to bring up a comparison with Mata's movement
I mean, honestly...What's your "critical analysis" of the difference in player types ? You're trying to build an argument that Martial doesn't move enough and make himself available for passes, yet if you take a minute to look at "passes received" when he plays, it paints a very different picture than your personal opinion. Have you even bothered to take a look at positions during a match ?
Then again, it's very easy to see what you base your opinion on, against Liverpool there were one or two situations where Zlatan knocked the ball over Liverpools right back only to look up and see that Martial wasn't there. Which in your mind translates to Martial not moving enough.
Look at Lingard against Sunderland, look at Lingard against West Ham (in both matches, november and january), two vastly different roles. Why ? . Against Sunderland he barely switches side, against West Ham he's allowed to roam all over the place. Same against West Brom.What's your "critical analysis"
Yeah he said that the other day. I'd still like to see it though.
Well he tried to sign Tony when he was Madrid manager and I suspect he wasn't going to tell Marcelo to sit back and defend.
I don't know if it's shiny new toy syndrome as much as what have you done for me lately syndrome. Martial was, as a 19-20 year old, the entire fulcrum of our attack last year. Mourinho even said when he took over that one of his responsibilities was getting away from a style of play that equated to Martial plays good = win, Martial plays bad = lose. I agree that it's remarkable that he has a few bad games in a completely different system to start the year and now there's this weird narrative established that he's ill-suited to Jose or he hasn't done enough to warrant selection...As if last season is a distant memory
Shiny new toy syndrome will kick in when Griezmann comes and he's marginalized, which I hope to god doesn't happen. Martial and Pogba are the two individuals this squad should be built around.
I find it somewhat amusing that your nick is criticalanalysis, but all you are posting is personal opinions. Not to mention that you're trying to bring up a comparison with Mata's movement
You're trying to build an argument that Martial doesn't move enough and make himself available for passes, yet if you take a minute to look at "passes received" when he plays, it paints a very different picture than your personal opinion. Have you even bothered to take a look at positions during a match ?
Then again, it's very easy to see what you base your opinion on, against Liverpool there were one or two situations where Zlatan knocked the ball over Liverpools right back only to look up and see that Martial wasn't there. Which in your mind translates to Martial not moving enough.
Look at Lingard against Sunderland, look at Lingard against West Ham (in both matches, november and january), two vastly different roles. Why ? . Against Sunderland he barely switches side, against West Ham he's allowed to roam all over the place. Same against West Brom.What's your "critical analysis"
In the case of movement, out of all the stats you might want to pull up or want to me look at, that one is probably the most subjective because it's an intangible thing. Case in point, Lingard. His off the ball movement is absolutely better than Martial's.
You can't really measure things like, off the shoulder runs, seeing a pass 1-3 transitions before the play, channel runs, runs inside of defenders, outside of defenders, continued runs (making space for the player on the ball), sprints when standing up defenders, sprints when running alongside defenders with the ball or off etc etc...
Well actually you can but I'd be surprised to see if there's data out there for that, which is why I'm basing my opinion on watching games. If you can find me stats for those categories then sure I'd give you a critical analysis on something, which frankly everyone else is capable of i.e forming an observed opinion having watched 1000's of minutes.
I don't need to see received passes positional stats to know generally Lingard's movement is superior. But that's not the point. I'm just simply saying, Martial can improve and we should expect better movement.
It's not an agenda or an outlandish claim.
It seems to me you're the one taking this personally.
In the case of movement, out of all the stats you might want to pull up or want to me look at, that one is probably the most subjective because it's an intangible thing. Case in point, Lingard. His off the ball movement is absolutely better than Martial's.
You can't really measure things like, off the shoulder runs, seeing a pass 1-3 transitions before the play, channel runs, runs inside of defenders, outside of defenders, continued runs (making space for the player on the ball), sprints when standing up defenders, sprints when running alongside defenders with the ball or off etc etc...
Well actually you can but I'd be surprised to see if there's data out there for that, which is why I'm basing my opinion on watching games. If you can find me stats for those categories then sure I'd give you a critical analysis on something, which frankly everyone else is capable of i.e forming an observed opinion having watched 1000's of minutes.
I don't need to see received passes positional stats to know generally Lingard's movement is superior. But that's not the point. I'm just simply saying, Martial can improve and we should expect better movement.
It's not an agenda or an outlandish claim.
It seems to me you're the one taking this personally.
He should leave us if we aren't selecting him if he's fit.
wtf is this guy again. Crying out for pace on the touchline
Where is Martial today? Any information? His pace would've been dangerous for Stoke today, particulary in the first half
This is all I found:
Holder in the face of @lfc last week, @AnthonyMartial was rejected by #Mourinho for #STOMUN. Without any explanation. @SFR_Sport
@AnthonyMartial and his entourage are wary and annoyed by this very special treatment since the beginning of the season. @SFR_Sport
I think likeliest explanation is that he was ill/had a knock. Would be gutted if he was actually dropped today.
Its a joke. Feck off Mourinho.
Baffling that he didn't start today.
Also thought he could have made a big difference with his direct running and dribbling
If he didn't start fair enough, but why wasn't he even in the squad?
This is going to be a waste of talent if Jose has a little faith in him. He wasn't too poor against Liverpool, he didn't get much help in attack from Darmian. He tried to do something in that game and helped Darmian in defense but he couldn't even make a bench today even though he scored a goal the previous time we met Stoke. Ironically, the Rashford's big chance was actually a similar spot where Martial scored the goal against Stoke.
Mourinho's handling of Martial is weird to say the least.
He'll throw him in for some big games, but leave him out of these smaller ones where he would torture the full back and gain some form/confidence.
He'll throw him in for some big games, but leave him out of these smaller ones where he would torture the full back and gain some form/confidence.
Maybe Martial doesn't kiss Jose's ass enough? Seriously, I don't know what to think.
Anyway, Martial and his 'people' just need to stay calm. Anthony needs to work like a dog to make sure he can't be dropped and also keep his attitude (if there is any) in check.
Seriously, I don't know what to think. Anyway, Martial and his 'people' just need to stay calm. Anthony needs to work like a dog to make sure he can't be dropped and also keep his attitude (if there is any) in check.
Needed him today. That being said, he's had a meh season and has done nothing to deserve a sure starting XI spot.
Martial repeatedly singled out and dropped from the squad for mysterious reasons. Really not impressed with Mourinho's treatment of him so far.
I get the sneaky feeling that this guy may be our answer for a clinical finisher. Wonder if we should play him instead of Ibra as the lone striker.
- Status