I thought this was his best performance of the season - caused carnage all game.
Not sure if it'll be enough to earn him a starting spot vs. City though.
Not sure if it'll be enough to earn him a starting spot vs. City though.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
I think I might have said this many times in this thread, but I'll say it once more....
When we play with a forward 3 and Valencia as RB, the RW which is usually Mata or Mkhi tucks inside becoming a roaming #10 playmaker while Valencia provides all the width down that side. The LW on the other hand is playing ahead of a defensive fullback (whether that is Darmian or Blind) and has to provide all the width. Otherwise our shape becomes too narrow and forwards are falling into each other.
Thus, when Martial plays on the LW his responsibility is to mainly hug the line, provide width and track the full back. He doesn't have the same freedom Mkhi and Mata enjoy. He is not "banned" from moving centrally per se, but he has to be very aware not to drag defenders centrally with him and clutter the space around the main striker or the #10. It's an extra thing he has to keep in mind and be aware of.
What is described above is typical wing play. Martial does not have it in him. Maybe it's a training issue, maybe it's an intelligence issue, maybe it's simply an experience issue... I don't know. But the fact is, when he has the freedom of the park to make runs, he makes them. We saw it today and we saw it most of last season. He can run at players and link up well with the other attackers if he's not saddled with the responsibility of maintaining a shape for the team. When he has to play as winger, he seems very indecisive with his movement and reading of the game. He can't make up his mind when to make a run and when to sit on the line to simply drag the right back away from the centre.
In other words, the lad is a forward and not a winger. When he's part of a mobile attack where positions can be interchanged freely and he's been given the freedom of movement like he was today, he will perform better for us overall. Of course there will be games when teams will park the bus, like the WBA game, where there's generally not enough space for him to move. Of course he'll have shit games too, like vs Anderlecht, there doesn't always have to be an excuse for why he's had a bad game. Bad games happen.
But overall, the more he plays like a forward and the less he plays like winger the better he will perform for us on the whole. That to me, is more than clear.
When we play with a forward 3 and Valencia as RB, the RW which is usually Mata or Mkhi tucks inside becoming a roaming #10 playmaker while Valencia provides all the width down that side. The LW on the other hand is playing ahead of a defensive fullback (whether that is Darmian or Blind) and has to provide all the width. Otherwise our shape becomes too narrow and forwards are falling into each other.
Thus, when Martial plays on the LW his responsibility is to mainly hug the line, provide width and track the full back. He doesn't have the same freedom Mkhi and Mata enjoy. He is not "banned" from moving centrally per se, but he has to be very aware not to drag defenders centrally with him and clutter the space around the main striker or the #10. It's an extra thing he has to keep in mind and be aware of.
What is described above is typical wing play. Martial does not have it in him. Maybe it's a training issue, maybe it's an intelligence issue, maybe it's simply an experience issue... I don't know. But the fact is, when he has the freedom of the park to make runs, he makes them. We saw it today and we saw it most of last season. He can run at players and link up well with the other attackers if he's not saddled with the responsibility of maintaining a shape for the team. When he has to play as winger, he seems very indecisive with his movement and reading of the game. He can't make up his mind when to make a run and when to sit on the line to simply drag the right back away from the centre.
In other words, the lad is a forward and not a winger. When he's part of a mobile attack where positions can be interchanged freely and he's been given the freedom of movement like he was today, he will perform better for us overall. Of course there will be games when teams will park the bus, like the WBA game, where there's generally not enough space for him to move. Of course he'll have shit games too, like vs Anderlecht, there doesn't always have to be an excuse for why he's had a bad game. Bad games happen.
But overall, the more he plays like a forward and the less he plays like winger the better he will perform for us on the whole. That to me, is more than clear.
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Who knew these 2 young forwards can play good. Oh wait.
Hopefully, both him and rash can push on from now on to solve some of our forward problem.
Hopefully, both him and rash can push on from now on to solve some of our forward problem.
I can't post videos yet so you can watch this video: youtube.com/watch?v=IKdvDquK2WM
I count 10+ times where Martial was playing in wide areas and 3-4 in central areas, he had one goal centrally and one assist from wide. Martial created 2 chances from wide areas, none from central areas. He made 19 passes in the game of which 5 were in line with the 6-yard box. He took on a player 10 times, 1 of which was in line with the 6-yard box and was when he nut-megged joey barton well inside our own-half. Most of his passes and runs were from outside to in which is a trademark of an inverted forward like Neymar and Robben.
I have a feeling that no matter how many times i watch the game you will tell me to watch it again unless i agree with you. And no matter what the video and stats say you will always think that you can watch the game better than anyone else.
Really good post.
He alongside Mata is our most clinical finisher. This lad has got bags of ability, I just hope Jose is the right coach to bring it out of him. A little patience is needed with Tony.
Last game, wow he's mainly playing as a striker right, with Rooney shifted to the left after the goals.
Good performance, and seems there is maturity in his game. Played more centrally today and more off the ball movements. Lead our attacks well enough.
That rare counter attacks, keep on improving Martial.
Good performance, and seems there is maturity in his game. Played more centrally today and more off the ball movements. Lead our attacks well enough.
That rare counter attacks, keep on improving Martial.I'm sure Jose is the right coach to do it. We just need to have the patience to allow the process to unfold over time rather than constantly criticizing Jose for not starting him when we think he should be starting.
Glad to see Martial looking menacing again. At the start of the season I thought Mou was going to use him as he'd used Hazard at Chelsea. Martial's been more inconsistent than I thought he'd be though. That goal today was wonderfully crafted and excellently taken, a touch to set himself up and then a goal. Long may it continue. If we can just get the best out of what we've got we don't need to be signing hundreds of millions of pounds worth of players.
Two things must happen. Martial from his side must remain focused on his game and keep working hard both on the pitch and on the training field. He hasn't done that enough this season.
Jose from his side needs to stop trying to shoehorn him into a winger role. The lad doesn't seem capable of making that transition based on countless observations. If he keeps trying it, I only see this ending one way.
Neither him, nor Jose are impervious to criticism. If a young Martial can take the criticism, so can a 54yo Mourinho. I don't see anything wrong with calling it out when you see it.
I suspect that with Zlatan out, we will see less of the shoehorning of Martial to the left and more as a striker, probably alternating with Rashford given that we are dealing with two fixtures a week from now until the end. That's plenty of time for him to make his mark on Jose.
Is he genuinely pacy or not? It's weird but even after watching him so many times I can't decide one way or the other. I mean, obviously on a scale of Mata to Rashford he's closer to the Rashford end, but is he actually fast fast like Rashford, or is he just the sort of fast which any forward who dribbles needs to be if they're going to be any good?
Maybe it's because he doesn't kick and rush, almost ever. He keeps the ball under very very tight control, even when he's dribbling into space not towards defenders. Look at that long run he made today with Barton behind him. Barton couldn't catch up to make a tackle, sure, but he didn't get left behind either, because Martial was dribbling with the ball stuck to his feet, using his strength and balance to keep Barton behind him rather than just burning him off with pace.
If anyone has a clip of him demonstrating raw pace, put me out of my existential doubt please.
Maybe it's because he doesn't kick and rush, almost ever. He keeps the ball under very very tight control, even when he's dribbling into space not towards defenders. Look at that long run he made today with Barton behind him. Barton couldn't catch up to make a tackle, sure, but he didn't get left behind either, because Martial was dribbling with the ball stuck to his feet, using his strength and balance to keep Barton behind him rather than just burning him off with pace.
If anyone has a clip of him demonstrating raw pace, put me out of my existential doubt please.
Well, Martial and Rashford can even work on the same pitch and not necessarily as a duo either. They are both highly mobile so they can swap between the LW and #9 positions during the game, something that is not possible for example with Ibra in the #9 role. For open games it'll work mostly fine. It's the games in which teams park the bus where I'm worried that we'll miss Ibra's presence in the box.
Fingers crossed we'll manage fine and Martial will have a strong end to the season. He needs it.
He's pacy enough to get the job done. Probably not as fast as Rashford though, although he seems to have a more developed core which also seems to make him more physical than Marcus.
This performance reminded me of Martial of 15/16. Hope he pushes on from here.
I think that's an accurate description. He doesn't have as much raw pace as Rashford, definitely not. He's a bit more of a heavy body type, he's more wide chested and with an arse like Luke Shaw's. If Rashford's a 9 for pace, Martial's a 7.5-8 for me. Still faster than most people on the pitch.
10.But yeah, that sounds about right. So, talking out of interest of 'faster than most people on the pitch', who do City have who's faster than Martial. Sané, surely. But Sterling's probably about the same, isn't he? What about Navas? I haven't watched them properly for a while. Is he still lightning or has his age kicked in?
I know what you mean but to keep another player at bay with the ball at your feet,over that distance, requires real speed.
Would be nice to see him really open up and go for it though. Everything seems very controlled with Martial.
But yeah, that sounds about right. So, talking out of interest of 'faster than most people on the pitch', who do City have who's faster than Martial. Sané, surely. But Sterling's probably about the same, isn't he? What about Navas? I haven't watched them properly for a while. Is he still lightning or has his age kicked in?
I reserve 10s for the very rarest of pace merchants like Robben, Bellerin, Overmars in the past etc.
Here's the thing pace and acceleration are used interchangeably by fans, but obviously they are not the same thing and I'm not just talking about physics. Pogba for example is a very very fast player. He has a powerful and lean body type with a massive stride, when he gets going he's as fast as anyone. But obviously he's a tall and heavy guy, so his acceleration over the first 5 yards is not great. Usain Bolt is consistently one of the slowest starters in 100m races. In football, acceleration is obviously more important than pace, especially when it comes to dribbling. Once you kick a ball past a player you either recover it within the next 10 yards or you lose it. It's no 100m sprint.
In terms of acceleration then Navas, Sterling and Sané are all far more lightweight and quicker than Martial. After the first 5-6 yards I reckon Martial is as fast Navas and maybe Sterling but not Sané. Sané is a 9 like Martial.
Valencia Bailly Rojo Shaw
--------------DM-----------
-------Herrera----Pogba----
-----------Mikhi-------------
--------Rashford Martial------
Looked a lot bigger and stronger today.
His finishing is pretty much ice cold. Im confident he will score 1 on 1s more often than not. It was nice that he was played up top. Aside from the goal and assist, it was great to see him running the channels and dragging out defenders to create space for others. What you want to see from him (and im guessing this is what Jose wanted)
Of course it helps that hes playing up top. Last season that seemed his best position when hes started with us, but then once Rooney got fit, he was shoved out wide which didnt help our play. He did ok in that position (good at times, bad at others).
Of course it helps that hes playing up top. Last season that seemed his best position when hes started with us, but then once Rooney got fit, he was shoved out wide which didnt help our play. He did ok in that position (good at times, bad at others).
We cater the game to his strengths instead of playing him on the left, and making crosses for Zlatan, and he shines.
He is a forward and needs to be played as a forward instead of a winger. Doesn't matter if it's on the left or through the center.
Lovely player.
He is a forward and needs to be played as a forward instead of a winger. Doesn't matter if it's on the left or through the center.
Lovely player.
Yeah this is true. It's actually hard to tell his true pace the way he moves with the ball. Because he always has to keep to ball tight to him and under control while making his run, it's hard to see the true reflection of his pace.
It's easier to show pace when kicking and rushing, Martial doesn't play like that which is why it's hard to tell his true pace. He's more of a runner with the ball close to his feet even in space like Hazard and the likes.
Though he's not quite Rashford pacy but not that far off either.
Martial's pace is tough to judge because he gets himself into static positions so often yet isn't one of those freaks with silly acceleration that makes it work for him. Smarter off the ball movements would make him functionally much faster on the pitch.
Just need to give him some breathing space and let the focus get back to his footy. He is superb on the ball and breaking with speed suits him, I thought the inclusion of Rooney helped him immensely. Rooney is much more passive than Rashers and Zlatan and I think that extra unselfishness allowed him a platform to shine. The 4-3-3 and having an anchor in midfield suits him a lot better than the 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 hybrids we played with Zlatan.
Really proud of him today, want to see more of that aggression going forward. Could be a fire-up on the cards against City. Would love to see him get fired up and put one in.
Really proud of him today, want to see more of that aggression going forward. Could be a fire-up on the cards against City. Would love to see him get fired up and put one in.
I think Martial is just as quick as Rashford, except he can actually dribble properly so he doesn't need to go into full sprints by knocking the ball past the opponent like Rashford tends to. Sure Rashford would have left Barton in the dust, but he would have taken a touch too long and lost the ball. Martial is undoubtedly our fastest player who can run with the ball under control.
If only you could take Rashford's mind and put it into Martial we'd have the next superstar.
If only you could take Rashford's mind and put it into Martial we'd have the next superstar.
Agreed.
I believe he is over-rated, though today he was like a machine.
And it was the first time this season, where I felt that he would run through brick walls.
His problem though is consistency. He had 1-2 good games previously this season, then failed to build on the performance in the following games, which saw him back on the bench.
If Martial could give us performances like today's 80% of the time he plays, I'll be a huge fan of his.
Much better this game. Showed desire to make run and work defenders. Hope he keeps this up. Has been uite few false dawn with him this season. We really need this with now with Zlatan is out.
I think we could see this in big games at times next year with Mkhitaryan on the right and Pogba on the left in an Atletico or Leicester style 442. Martial and Rashford together would be a real threat with space in behind. Not sure Mourinho has used a similar formation but it just makes a lot of sense with our personnel.
For this year, though, I think we could just see Martial up top and Rashford and Mkhitaryan on his right and left.
I've always thought that Martial's best position is as a CF.
He is a striker not an attacking winger
Agreed
agree hes more built then Marcus and not as fast. But hes a great dribbler as well as fast, which is really what makes him look great on the ball going forward I think. He's also a composed finisher.
Marcus shows good dribbling as well but hes much more reliant on pace whilst Martial is more balanced.
Martial is actually very pacy. At full flight I think he's actually faster than Rashford even maybe just slightly. I expect someone to say otherwise very soon.
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We can easily play this. Need not be a diamond formation as Herrera moves to right wing on many occasion and Pogba likes to attack from left side. It's sort of playing with CMs who can stretch the game rather than wingers.
But that's not what you said 1st, you said that Rashford has been better than Martial, I asked for stats to back this because I completely disagreed with it.
Something that Jose and some people fail to understand! It's all about tough love.Great to see that
Our best talented young player since Ronaldo and we've alienated him for no reason! With a flying Martial, we'd be fighting with Chelsea and Tottenham; the boy carried this team last season!
fixed
- Status