At the moment, nobody is criticizing Martial. In fact the people who believe that Martial will leave because of this treatment by Jose are the ones who should stop really.
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At the moment, nobody is criticizing Martial. In fact the people who believe that Martial will leave because of this treatment by Jose are the ones who should stop really.
We didn't have any intention to attack towards the end, it would have been pointless anyway.Come off itWe were 0-3 up against a side who still haven't scored in 2017, there's no way that even entered his thinking. If anything, it was the perfect time to introduce a player who he thought needed to prove himself, when the 3 points were already sewn up.
He is a player that dribbles/looses the ball alot, which could have lead to us giving them unnecessary chances to counter us.
There's been a lot of posts accusing Martial of having a poor attitude with little evidence.
I think speculation on either side should stop to be honest, people are just jumping to wild conclusions, throwing accusations at both manager and player with little proof, it's tiresome and seems to be deflecting away from what was a good weekend for us.
I'm talking about how people receive tweets or interviews, they don't care otherwise we would be talking about what Mourinho expects from Martial that Rashford provides and if the best way of using the former. And a lot of people criticized Martial's attitude, "he is moody", "he is a diva", "he needs to concentrate on football".
In my opinion, we are all wrong because we are mostly not talking about football, we talk about political power and speculate on attitude instead of talking football.
Because he would have been useful if we actually needed goals. I don't buy that Mourinho is done with him. People were saying that for a while yet he is still getting starts and he will countinue to be used in some capacity.
It's not relevant if Young has a future here. You use whoever you have to in order to execute a certain strategy.
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Good for you. I'll continue to express my opinion on a forum which would be dull as hell if everyone agreed with every person in football because they're people in football.
Based on what I see on the pitch of late, as well as last season Martial deserves to start.
Jose can get rid of him if he wants. Martial can become one of the best here or elsewhere. Neither of them has to win/lose.
Most likely because he's been better than Rashford on the left, in recent times and in general. Rashford actually is pretty poor on the right. The mistake you make is in thinking people want some "Yong player quota" fulfilled and hence are dying to see martial play, which isn't the case. And that seems like pointless tokenism as is highlighted by your post. People want to see martial play because they see him as a world beater in the making who has also improved his performances of late to the point where not just on potential but on current performance levels he deserves to start. As simple as that. He's not been incredible but relative to the pack, he's been good and has shown steady improvement.
A very convenient assumption for point number 1. Can we also have an assumption that is the flipped side as point number 2?
I don't think anyone is saying that Martial is spot and Jose isn't but you like some are not even given the slightest thought the manager may just be wrong as well.
Because Martial is our best option for the left wing slot at the moment it's as simple as that. You play your best players and your best team and the team is better with Martial in it.
This.
From the forum I feel that Martial is almost universally adored by our fans. And I agree it's all speculation, we don't know if he has a bad attitude or if he killed Mourinho's dog. But I see some fans who are willing to consider that it might be Martial's problem (or his agent) advocating patience.
What I find absurd are fans who seem so sure it is 100% jose's fault, based on Martial's handful of performances. Even worse are the fans who wish that he goes elsewhere to become a world beater almost as if to spite our manager.
You are taking that sentence out of context. Read the rest of the post. I was responding to a question about Mourinho's response - that whether or not Martial had an attitude problem doesn't matter - because whatever the case is and despite what the manager may say - many minds are made up so there is no point for the manager to elaborate too much.
You are right but the opposite is also true and we actually saw it with Memphis when Mourinho was very positive about his attitude and some decided that it was an astute way of maintaining a high market value.
True, so by omission perhaps that's where the assumption of his attitude comes from?
I do think Martial is more widely adored than Memphis so experience tells me that even if Mourinho said something negative about Martial, fans may claim he is throwing Martial under the bus or may just claim Mourinho is just a poor man manager.
But that's the thing though, is it really a baseless claim? Has the man not reputation for mishandling developing players? It is common knowledge that he refuses to work with developing players except when he hasn't a choice? The leopard doesn't change his spots all of a sudden because he manages United.
Common knowledge, my arse.
When Mourinho joined Chelsea he quickly made Cech (22) Robben (20) and Terry (23) into first-team regulars. Varane gets mentioned a lot as a young player who did well for him at Madrid but Ozil and Di Maria were also relatively young when he signed them (21 and 22 respectively) The last time he won the league with Chelsea he got great use out of Courtois and Hazard (both of whom were a similar age to what Martial is now)
There's a world of difference between bringing through a youngster into the first team from the academy (where his record really is patchy) and working with highly rated players of similar ages to Martial (21).
I don't think it is baseless. But I think it is overblown and is a convenient excuse.
Whilst he seems (for now) to be mishandling Martial (a young developing player) he appears to be doing well with Rashford (another young developing player). That kinda blows the claims about his refusal to work with young developing players. He could have played Young, Mhikitaryan, Lingard, Mata, Rooney instead of Rashford so it is hardly a refusal.
Managers don't get everything right. You could say LVG got the best out of Martial but mishandled Di Maria. You could also say he got the best out of Blind but mishandled Herrera.
SAF got the best out of Ronaldo but not Veron.
There's no need to jump onto any of the extreme bandwagons. I don't believe Mourinho is perfect, but we are only just past the halfway mark so let's be patient and see.
Spot on.
True. Nobody knows what's really going on so not too much point in speculating. I feel a lot of people are posting in response to others as opposed to what they really think. It's more about arguing than finding a balanced opinion. It's ruining the discussion.
I've tried to limit my involvement to simply discussing the player's performance. I feel on the strength of those he deserves his place. It's annoyed me when posters have tried to discredit his performances to side with Jose. That just confuses the issue. He's been playing pretty well so I think we should dismiss the idea that it's down to his form.
We should also probably dismiss the idea that Jose's doing it because he's petty or evil. At worst he's misguided. He might even be getting it right for all we know but there's currently little publicly available evidence to confirm that. We will have to wait and see what happens. Calls to sack him are obviously insane and idiotic.
Hopefully his tweet helps move things in a better direction. The kid is clearly special. The fact that this thread is so busy just goes to show how highly people rate him. A potentially 15-20 goal a season winger is not to be sniffed at and contrary to what some are saying not easily replaced.
Didn't he introduce Zouma in their 2nd or 3rd year, who is still pretty young too?
And Mou's replacement for Martial on the left, guess what? an even younger player.
There is no logical reason for Martial to start 9 league games up to this point. Mourinho has preferred to save him for the cups, which he has performed well in. He took West Ham, Reading and Wigan apart. He was also excellent against Middlesbrough in the league.
Lingard, Mkhi and Rashford haven't done enough in the league to see him benched for so many games.
No matter what you think of Martial, he will always pose a threat to the opposition. Plus, he has the unique ability that allows him to beat a man.
I expect him to be used against Saint-Étienne and Blackburn, and he'll probably continue his good cup form.
Lingard, Mkhi and Rashford haven't done enough in the league to see him benched for so many games.
No matter what you think of Martial, he will always pose a threat to the opposition. Plus, he has the unique ability that allows him to beat a man.
I expect him to be used against Saint-Étienne and Blackburn, and he'll probably continue his good cup form.
It's similar with Aguero at City. Both players are currently stuck with a manager who doesn't think they're right for him. Both will score over 30 goals next season if they play for a manager who does.
Sam old cliches being repeated about Mourinho. Its tiring.
And about Martial. Sulky lazy foreigner etc
Nobody has painted that picture. Sulky has come from his demeanour, lazy has come from comments from his coaches that he needs to apply himself more. Nationality hasn't come into it at all.
You don't even realise you're doing it.
His demeanour? Because he's constantly running around with a smile on his face? That means he's sulky. Right.
Neither Jose or Van Gaal ever actually said he was lazy or didn't apply himself. You've just attributed that to him.
I think if he was the next big English talent as opposed the next big French talent a lot more would be made of the current situation. The media have been happy to place all the blame on the player and most supporters seem to be going along with that idea.
I'm not saying I know what's going on. I don't. But I'd prefer people would actually support our young players instead of throwing lazy accusations their way.
We're not really in a position to do that about either party.
At least three different coaches told him that he wasn't applying himself enough on the training ground. Jardim, Ranieri and Deschamps, so since Mourinho strongly believes that you should train like you play we might have an answer here.
Now, I also know that Jardim and Ranieri managed to get through to him which is why while I'm willing to accept that Martial might be at fault, Mourinho could also be failing where others didn't.
Bottom line, things aren't black or white but probably closer to grey.
Same should be applied to our manager,dont you think?
Not trying to find anything under the sun just to throw him under the bus, inventing things and repeating the same old stuff, most of which isnt even true.
You said yourself you dont know whats going on but you're ready to blame Jose for everything.
The point I'm making is that it's happening on both sides. Not one or the other. Everyone just seems to be speculating. 90% of what's being said in this thread has no real evidence to back it up. Maybe Jose is this, maybe martial is that. Only people aren't bothering with the maybes.
I agree. I just hate to see people throwing all the blame on Jose while not knowing shit.
Same with Martial of course. None of us knows if he's the problem.
Luckhurst says the word is that Martial will start instead of Rashford.
Really wish that Martial plays a blinder today and gets a Mkhi sort of revival in the first team.
Can tell he's got a real inside track can't you.
He's been put back in the team for a reason, must be showing a lot more in training, we all know how could Martial can be I think we'll see a really good game from him today.
Still get the feeling he could score a hat-trick today and end up out of the squad for the next game.
Ban The Sun.
Not a single post in here since tuesday, quite remarkable. Glad he's getting the chance today.
Totally agree with Jose's call to bench Rashford for him. Come on Tony lad!
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