Angel Gomes Watch

Mainoo is an exciting prospect, but obviously not high level in terms of physicality.

So when I see people talking about talking about Mainoo and Gomes in the same midfield, in a league where the trend in recent times has been for increased physicality, I have severe doubts about how their concept of that midfield would actually function in the real world.
 
sullydnl said:
Mainoo is an exciting prospect, but obviously not high level in terms of physicality.

So when I see people talking about talking about Mainoo and Gomes in the same midfield, in a league where the trend in recent times has been for increased physicality, I have severe doubts about how their concept of that midfield would actually function in the real world.
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Yeo however Ugarte, Mainoo and Gomes would more than work, Bruno right wing false 9 pack the midfield.
 
pcaming said:
I really don't think the Finland performance justifies all this revisionism.

He left on his own accord to play football. Yeah he could have gone on loan, but would he be more likely to be making his England debut on the back of years of loans, or his stint of stability and constant football in France.

He wasn't ready and he left, he could have just as easily stayed and fall into obscurity as many talented youth players have over recent years. Nothing in football is certain, so there's no point battling opinions. What's important is that he's found himself and developed into a tidy player and if we want we can sign him next year for free, so we really haven't lost anything.
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Exactly right, he wasn't going to be getting games anytime soon. Personally I don't think we're geared up for developing this type of player. He's too outside the retrograde pace and power ideal at this club. We couldn't even find his position, or weren't bold enough to try him in it.
 
Woziak said:
Yeo however Ugarte, Mainoo and Gomes would more than work, Bruno right wing false 9 pack the midfield.
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Yes, but then we have €110 worth of strikers on the bench only to accomodate a former academy graduate. It just doesn’t make much sense to me.

If we had no history with Angel there would be very few on here bothering with these mental gymnastics.
I think he’s unlikely to join us on a free sadly and to be honest I’d never want to pay a fee for a player with such caveats. We’ve done it too many times and it just never works out in the end.
 
Woziak said:
You know football a simple game and clever players make it even simpler, if you keep the ball and have technical players like Gomes that can go past players and draw fouls you normally eventually that type of team wears your opponents down, I mean prime Messi 5’7 or Prine Maradona 5’5 would still have dominated this very physical league in the same way Pep’s football which was never suppose to dominate the PL way back in 2016/17 has!

Scholes had asthma 5’7/8 and was one of the greats, Gomes is only going to get better especially as he moves to his next team whether that’s us, Spurs, Milan or Dortmund.
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These are not good equivalents to compare with Angel Gomes. I agree Milan might be a good move for him.
 
Judas said:
This is teenager level of unreasonable panic, and I'm guessing you're nowhere near that age.
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Oh, come off it. It's not that deep. Having our top talent become top talent for a rival in the epl isn't something we've had happen before. So yes, it would be shit.
 
His level right now is probably at around Leon Britton, who was quite a tidy player and would probably start for us.
 
FrankWhite said:
Oh, come off it. It's not that deep. Having our top talent become top talent for a rival in the epl isn't something we've had happen before. So yes, it would be shit.
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He wasn't a top talent though, so you're being a bit over-dramatic.
 
I really like Gomes but it’s a bit embarrassing to see Utd fans who I’d have like to think have seen the most of him be so easily swept up in a typical English media hype storm to build him up, to just knock him very far down soon after.

I’d love to see him back, but him leaving 4 years ago probably benefitted him massively in the long run. Even if it is a shame he never in my opinion got the chances his potential clearly deserved.
 
Woziak said:
Yeo however Ugarte, Mainoo and Gomes would more than work, Bruno right wing false 9 pack the midfield.
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That midfield lacks aerial ability and physicality severly. Adding Ugarte to it fixes neither of those issues.

Angel Gomes would work only if he had a Rice/A.Onana type next to him.
 
Varun1 said:
He wasn't a top talent though, so you're being a bit over-dramatic.
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Youngest player to play for man utd, under 17 world cup winner, under 21 European winner.

People that watch our unders teams, knew how good this lad is. The only thing was how this lad would handle the EPL.

There was another in that team that was just as good.

Largie Ramazan who signed for Leeds, very very good play.
 
FrankWhite said:
Oh, come off it. It's not that deep. Having our top talent become top talent for a rival in the epl isn't something we've had happen before. So yes, it would be shit.
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It's happened before for us with Newcastle even: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Beardsley

We didn't care because we had e.g. Hughes, Cantona, Cole to make us feel better. Gomes leaving is only something to be lamented if we can't find someone who fits us better to replace him with.

In saying that I do think he was treated poorly by the club in his last couple of years. Denying him a loan because he wouldn't sign a new contract is just spiteful. I didn't like what Brighton did with Collyer when he signed for us either, at the end of the day they're young people and the clubs should do their best for them always. If you can do it for knobheads like Greenwood, you can do it for the decent kids.
 
Varun1 said:
He wasn't a top talent though, so you're being a bit over-dramatic.
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From memory he was the captain of the English youth team which won the World Cup and was generally considered to be, along with Foden and Sancho, the top talent in it. He was probably the best our youth team developed in the years between Pogba and Greenwood.

His size always meant that he'd take longer to establish himself in the men's game than any of those names, and indeed put a question mark over whether he'd ever achieve it. But I don't think there was ever any doubt over his pure talent.
 
Ffs, so much nonsense being spouted here.

He is a really good player, and I would love to get him back again. A free transfer is just a ridiculously good deal. Homegrown, and would help in PSR matters as well. Just think of all the stupid money we have wasted in last 10 years, and the returns we got for that. Not sure why there is any doubts about this transfer. Worst case it does not work out and we decide to sell him, all of that will be considered pure profit for PSR.
 
sullydnl said:
Mainoo is an exciting prospect, but obviously not high level in terms of physicality.

So when I see people talking about talking about Mainoo and Gomes in the same midfield, in a league where the trend in recent times has been for increased physicality, I have severe doubts about how their concept of that midfield would actually function in the real world.
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Kobbie is rather strong in his tackles, wins a fair amount of duels. And Gomes wins duels as well, he is not afraid to get stuck in despite his size. And they are both really comfortable with the ball, protects it well and their passing is usually good, or very good, especially Gomes but Kobbie is certainly no slouch either. I think their quality on the ball could to some extent atleast outweigh their lack of height and athleticism.
We have had our fair share of bigger guys in midfield last 10 years, it just doesn`t seem to do much for us, because they are not good enough on the ball, just not quick enough, or clever enough to make it work anyways.
We would all love a Rodri or Carrick in there to give us the best of both worlds but these guys does not come around very often. For now we can only hope that Ugarte can be the important step up in quality on the ball we need.
 
Love his style and intelligence on the pitch. He showed like 70% of how good he is against the Finnish and I’m excited that he has a manager at international level who knows how he can help England improve.

I hope Carsley gets the job due to this fact and can see him deploying a midfield similar to one that won at under 21 level. So don’t be surprised to see him next to Mainoo sitting deep, Kobe taking Curtis Jones’ pace in this scenario.


I’ve wanted him back for a while similar to a few that appreciate his unique abilities and it makes the most sense for this to happen. Cynical me is sceptical but there’s always hope.
 
People who didn’t watch him might not see him as a top talent due to the ridiculous lack of chances he got in the first team, but he was a massive prospect.
 
Varun1 said:
He wasn't a top talent though, so you're being a bit over-dramatic.
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This is crazy talk, he was absolutely a top talent. He made his United debut at 16 and the only reason he didn't progress with the first team was due to Jose and also his physicality
 
Gordon S said:
? It is fair to have different opinions on players but Angel Gomes was for sure a top talent.
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Cassidy said:
This is crazy talk, he was absolutely a top talent. He made his United debut at 16 and the only reason he didn't progress with the first team was due to Jose and also his physicality
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The original post described him as “our top talent” So not a top talent, the top talent.

Not that it matters. I agree with the general gist. Having one our our best prospects of the last decade playing for a PL rival would suck balls. It would be like City fans must feel watching Palmer. Without the consolation that your team is still excellent without him.
 
Ace of Spades said:
Ffs, so much nonsense being spouted here.

He is a really good player, and I would love to get him back again. A free transfer is just a ridiculously good deal. Homegrown, and would help in PSR matters as well. Just think of all the stupid money we have wasted in last 10 years, and the returns we got for that. Not sure why there is any doubts about this transfer. Worst case it does not work out and we decide to sell him, all of that will be considered pure profit for PSR.
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People keep talking about this free transfer as though it’s essentially a done deal next summer if we want him and he wants to play for us. Surely it’s not that straightforward? How did his current club let that happen?
 
JohnnyLaw said:
Yes, but then we have €110 worth of strikers on the bench only to accomodate a former academy graduate. It just doesn’t make much sense to me.

If we had no history with Angel there would be very few on here bothering with these mental gymnastics.
I think he’s unlikely to join us on a free sadly and to be honest I’d never want to pay a fee for a player with such caveats. We’ve done it too many times and it just never works out in the end.
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We would play Rasmus or Zirkzee at 9 and Bruno as right wing playmaker
 
Gordon S said:
Kobbie is rather strong in his tackles, wins a fair amount of duels. And Gomes wins duels as well, he is not afraid to get stuck in despite his size. And they are both really comfortable with the ball, protects it well and their passing is usually good, or very good, especially Gomes but Kobbie is certainly no slouch either. I think their quality on the ball could to some extent atleast outweigh their lack of height and athleticism.
We have had our fair share of bigger guys in midfield last 10 years, it just doesn`t seem to do much for us, because they are not good enough on the ball, just not quick enough, or clever enough to make it work anyways.
We would all love a Rodri or Carrick in there to give us the best of both worlds but these guys does not come around very often. For now we can only hope that Ugarte can be the important step up in quality on the ball we need.
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Kobbie will only get stronger aswell. Angel has clearly learned how to tackle and while he does wins a good percentage of his challenges the issue is he almost never contests unless he knows he’ll win it. He’s consistantly in the bottom 1-2 percent for tackles and while his ball retention skills are fine, we’ve not been a strong possession side since, like, ever?
So unless ETH goes and a more possession based manager comes in his weaknesses are only going to be more exposed here.

I really can’t understand why we spent so much time and effort on chasing Ugarte when Onana who’s a more athletic version was available for even less?
 
He's a good player and it's a no brainer to bring him back (if he will come). He might choose to go somewhere he is guaranteed first team football.

I'd like to see a Mainoo, Gomes and Ugarte 3 as I think we could finally control possession in games. Just checked his duels stats though and they are quite low, despite thinking different when I've watched him.
 
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This thread is quite funny, when he left you had some who was adament he was not good enough and would amount to nothing (the usuals who tend to know little about the academy) but like to make such bold statements
Low and behold 4 years later he is a full England international and behind Bellingham likely one of the most gifted technical central midfielders England have at the moment (along with Mainoo)

At a time United are crying out for a midfielder to help control games, he could be the answer for England
 
We are likely to bring in 2 midfielders next season with Ericksen definitely going and hopefully Casemiro too.....

think comparisons are silly with the likes of Mainoo as we are an injury away from Cas/Ericksen starting every game. We need to develop the squad.

a technically gifted, passing midfielder on a free would be a godsend and with the two above likely leaving it's a no brainer for me.....

Gomes and another midfielder with the bulk of fees spent next year likely to be on an attacker
 
Cassidy said:
This is crazy talk, he was absolutely a top talent. He made his United debut at 16 and the only reason he didn't progress with the first team was due to Jose and also his physicality
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Maybe it's the term... For me he was a very good player coming through but not a top talent.
 
Varun1 said:
Maybe it's the term... For me he was a very good player coming through but not a top talent.
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The only doubt that was ever posed about him was whether he was big enough, or if he was ever going to grow. His talent was always acknowledged as top tier, but he has always effectively been written off for being too small and too slight, and the way the club treated him compounded that line of thought.

Unfortunately, unless you're built like Maradona at those kind of heights, there will be massive doubts dogging your career until you prove you can handle the adult game. Gomes wasn't even given the chance to attempt to, and that probably skews your thinking.

Even now, he has people doubting him for his stature over his talent and that's as a full international, so you should see how many multiple times worse that would have been when he was trying to break through as pro here and in the PL.

In this instance "top talent" is very different from "sure thing to make it or make the transition".
 
Cassidy said:
This thread is quite funny, when he left you had some who was adament he was not good enough and would amount to nothing (the usuals who tend to know little about the academy) but like to make such bold statements
Low and behold 4 years later he is a full England international and behind Bellingham likely one of the most gifted technical central midfielders England have at the moment (along with Mainoo)

At a time United are crying out for a midfielder to help control games, he could be the answer for England
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All of that is fair but honestly had he stayed his career could have gone in a very different and quite possibly less succesful direction. It is telling that even Lille did not think he was up for regular football in Ligue 1 when they signed him and shipped him off for a year on loan in Portugal and then when he came back they integrated him slowly into their team over the next couple of seasons. It has been a fantastic developmental path and just what he needed and essentially is something we have been spectacularly bad at in recent times.

I admire him for identifying what he needed and having the drive to go and pursue it even though it meant leaving a very comfortable situation here. I do think he might choose to remain on the continent as there is still going to be a question mark over his suitability to play in the very physical PL and he will doubtless get offers from a lot of big clubs if he is available on a free. I think we can safely say he won't make a decision based on sentiment but based on what he feels is best for his career and that probably means he won't be coming back to us regardless of which league he ends up in.
 
Gandalf said:
All of that is fair but honestly had he stayed his career could have gone in a very different and quite possibly less succesful direction. It is telling that even Lille did not think he was up for regular football in Ligue 1 when they signed him and shipped him off for a year on loan in Portugal and then when he came back they integrated him slowly into their team over the next couple of seasons. It has been a fantastic developmental path and just what he needed and essentially is something we have been spectacularly bad at in recent times.

I admire him for identifying what he needed and having the drive to go and pursue it even though it meant leaving a very comfortable situation here. I do think he might choose to remain on the continent as there is still going to be a question mark over his suitability to play in the very physical PL and he will doubtless get offers from a lot of big clubs if he is available on a free. I think we can safely say he won't make a decision based on sentiment but based on what he feels is best for his career and that probably means he won't be coming back to us regardless of which league he ends up in.
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Yes that is because we really miss managed him, he sat at United not developing for about 3 years, we didn't send him on loan and he was far too good for U21 (this was clear at 17/18, but we left it and so he stagnated massively)
He begged to go on loan we said no, only to not give him any minutes so the right thing for a new club to do was to make sure he played 90 minutes every week for a season at a decent level.

Hes been on an upwards trajectory since then

Had he been managed correctly by United since he debut at 16 years old by the way (a couple of good loans and then see how he does) I think we would have had a real player on our hands personally
 
Cassidy said:
Yes that is because we really miss managed him, he sat at United not developing for about 3 years, we didn't send him on loan and he was far too good for U21 (this was clear at 17/18, but we left it and so he stagnated massively)
He begged to go on loan we said no, only to not give him any minutes so the right thing for a new club to do was to make sure he played 90 minutes every week for a season at a decent level.

Hes been on an upwards trajectory since then

Had he been managed correctly by United since he debut at 16 years old by the way (a couple of good loans and then see how he does) I think we would have had a real player on our hands personally
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That was kind of my point. Our recent track record has been appalling when developing players, the exceptions like MG and Kobbie are ready to jump into the first team regularly as teenagers but anyone needing a more gradual route into the team via loans etc. seems to end up being mismanaged and in some cases fading into obscurity because of the way their development stalls. Gomes had his mind made up a good 12 months before he left as he could see which way it was going and he knew he had to get out, I hope that the new structure will do a better job with these kinds of players but time will tell.
 
Gandalf said:
That was kind of my point. Our recent track record has been appalling when developing players, the exceptions like MG and Kobbie are ready to jump into the first team regularly as teenagers but anyone needing a more gradual route into the team via loans etc. seems to end up being mismanaged and in some cases fading into obscurity because of the way their development stalls. Gomes had his mind made up a good 12 months before he left as he could see which way it was going and he knew he had to get out, I hope that the new structure will do a better job with these kinds of players but time will tell.
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Agree hopefully we’ll do a better job with the likes of Lacey, Ibragimov etc

Lets see how Amas gets on too
 
Cassidy said:
Agree hopefully we’ll do a better job with the likes of Lacey, Ibragimov etc

Lets see how Amas gets on too
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With the state of the market it's probably the best time ever to break through as a young striker.
 
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