Angel Gomes Watch

I think refusing to loan him in Ole's first year was a mistake that likely made up his mind about leaving.

It took me a bit to realize you're talking about Chido Obi-Martin. If he's that talented and left because they wouldn't promise him a clear path to the first team, it's also a mistake.

Not everything bad that happens in life is a mistake, a bad decision, incompetence or malice. Sometimes shit happens.

If a young footballer gets it in his head that his career is best served by a fresh start then it won’t always be possible to convince him otherwise. There’s so many intangibles behind decisions like Gomes or Obi-Martin. What are they being told by friends and family? Ditto for their agent. What sort of biases do they hold? What sort of person are they? Are they naturally impatient and always looking for a change? Are they a home birds or do they see the change to live abroad as a positive? etc etc etc

The fact that all clubs, even the biggest and best, lose young talents just proves that you can’t win them all. Over the years United have, if anything, been better than most at holding on to talents (we haven’t let a De Bruyne or Salah move on, like Chelsea, thank feck) so we’ve no reason to think that Gomes moving on was something we could have prevented.
 
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You've had such a weird chip on your shoulder about him since he left that I actually worry about your sanity should he return

Eh? I’ve done nothing other than hope that he wouldn’t turn out to be a top player. Because that would make him leaving a real shame. It that’s a “weird chip on my shoulder” then I can live with that. What I found weird was people getting giddy about a footballer who plays for Lille or Boavista. I could never get excited about footballers who play for other clubs.

If it’s clear that he really is a top player then I would obviously be delighted if he returned. Why wouldn’t I?
 
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I very much agree on his skillset and I think he'd be a fantastic option as someone we could sign to give us what Eriksen gave us during his first six months at the club. I'm just aware of the fact that a lot of people want a lot more of that from whatever midfielder(s) we bring in.

Where we differ is that I really don't see Wharton joining us next summer. In fact I don't see him joining anyone next summer. The early signs suggest he'll have a (fair to expect) wobble this season. Palace is not only the right club for him to have that at, it's also a club that has proven to be very good at holding onto their assets when they want to. They sold Olise in the summer gone, sure, but that meant they were able to stand firm when Newcastle tried everything to get Guehi. Palace have other players they can still move for big money before they consider selling Wharton, who - for me - needs a bit of time there anyway before the big clubs will want to meet the asking price of a player they've not long let in the door.

My guesswork on Angel's stance towards us is largely based on this article. He talks a lot about how hard it was for him to leave, how he felt like he had to because he was just "there," and how much it meant when Boavista's coach outlined the importance he would have. I can't see any ill will, just a desire for clarity and assurances. These aren't always things you can get at a top club, but as you say if he goes up another level, maybe he can. But I do think he'd be happy to come back if and only if he got those things from us.

In terms of our own squad depth, maybe we're all just scarred by past injury crises but it should be perfectly acceptable - ideal, even - to go into a season with four good options for two deep midfield positions. Eriksen will likely be gone at the end of his contract, with Casemiro also looking like a strong possibility as things stand. That would leave Ugarte, Mainoo, and Collyer. It's very much up to the latter to take his chance this season and prove that he'd make a good option, but in the event that he does, would we really need to be signing two midfielders? Add Angel and you'd have four who have no serious injury concerns, are well away from any sort of predictable decline, and have a mix of skills that compliment each other. And all of them are great at retaining the ball and playing under pressure.

Personally I think that, even if two midfielders leave, we'll only sign the one. The question then becomes: are you gonna be okay if that one is Angel Gomes?
Wharton is a hunch, could be way off on that. The season is very young and Palace have yet to get into gear as a unit. Wharton is also a very hot prospect now with a lot of newfound attention, pressure and tactical preparation levied at him. Might take him a while to adjust. But regarding Wharton, it’s his ability to play the ball forward over distance that is coveted and Gomes has crossover with him for being able to do the same thing, so much so they may become rivals or rotation for England in the future, methinks.

It’s nice to know that we most likely have first dibs, by what you’ve put up and the discussion that’s going on here since my last post.

I’ll be amazed if we’re not in for two midfielders next summer. We’re thin in that department as is and will be thinner still by 2025.

To your question: I am not opposed to Gomes as an initial thought, but it depends on what transpires from the market and who makes a name for themselves. DLP’s or anyone who can consistently pass well over distance is worth their weight in gold in the market, so that “one’’ could well be Gomes if someone like Wharton or similar isn’t viable or doesn’t kick on as hoped.
 
It happens. To all clubs. And no, it isn’t always because the club has done something stupid.
If we were winning leagues and Champions Leagues then you could argue that we would have the luxury to lose a talent like Gomes. In our situation, it's not a good look. We rarely lose our best kids thankfully, however we got this one wrong.
 
He is local, counts as homegrown, provides competition for an area we deeply lack in quality and quantity, and most importantly he is on free! It would be stupid not trying to get him, in worst case he would take over Eriksens spot in the team.
 
If he wants to come back, definitely a no brainer to bring him back on a free next summer. He wouldn't be a starter but a quality squad player to rotate with Mainoo or Bruno.
 
I really don't think the Finland performance justifies all this revisionism.

He left on his own accord to play football. Yeah he could have gone on loan, but would he be more likely to be making his England debut on the back of years of loans, or his stint of stability and constant football in France.

He wasn't ready and he left, he could have just as easily stayed and fall into obscurity as many talented youth players have over recent years. Nothing in football is certain, so there's no point battling opinions. What's important is that he's found himself and developed into a tidy player and if we want we can sign him next year for free, so we really haven't lost anything.
 
If he wants to come back, definitely a no brainer to bring him back on a free next summer. He wouldn't be a starter but a quality squad player to rotate with Mainoo or Bruno.
He's a starter at a Champions League club and just breaking into the England squad, can't see that he'd want to come back to United to just be a squad rotation option, he'll want to be a starter wherever he goes. Personally think Angel/Mainoo/Ugarte could be a great first choice midfield, but that's not going to happen while Bruno's still the first name on the teamsheet.
 
As others have said, he'd be an absolute no brainer free transfer for us - hell I'd even be tempted to offer them £5m in Jan so we can get him earlier (though he'll probably want that big fat Bosman Bonus)
 
I rather someone like this as a part of the team. People say he wouldn't be a starter but just go check how many games Scott started over the last 5 years, and how many minutes he racked up all together. He'll play a lot. You don't have to play every minute like Bruno to have an accomplished United career.
 
How many of our current midfield options are for sure better than Angel?
It's about balance (and of course the coaching of it, so that needs to change anyway).

But in the prem Mainoo would of course provide better balance and Bruno is obviously a better player. But Gomes has his quality and could slot into a top team as a squad player, especially if it's a controlled system to rotate between the 8 and 10 positions.
 
I rather someone like this as a part of the team. People say he wouldn't be a starter but just go check how many games Scott started over the last 5 years, and how many minutes he racked up all together. He'll play a lot. You don't have to play every minute like Bruno to have an accomplished United career.
Yeah, it's a fair point that when we say not a 'starter' we generally just mean they wouldn't get in to fully fit first XI, when 'squad players' play 90 minutes many times a season.
 
Yeah, it's a fair point that when we say not a 'starter' we generally just mean they wouldn't get in to fully fit first XI, when 'squad players' play 90 minutes many times a season.

Yup. You can flip it and ask who in our squad hasn’t played a load of football in recent years? The only ones who haven’t are those who haven’t played due to injuries or are remarkably and unusually crap (VdB probably the only one in this category)
 
He's a starter at a Champions League club and just breaking into the England squad, can't see that he'd want to come back to United to just be a squad rotation option, he'll want to be a starter wherever he goes. Personally think Angel/Mainoo/Ugarte could be a great first choice midfield, but that's not going to happen while Bruno's still the first name on the teamsheet.

If he dont back himself to play plenty of minutes at the expense of a twenty year old (Mainoo), he is probably not the right fit.

We probably need two new midfielders. Should Man Utd bring in two that will assume to be «not good enough» to start?
 
If he wants to come back, definitely a no brainer to bring him back on a free next summer. He wouldn't be a starter but a quality squad player to rotate with Mainoo or Bruno.
I think he’d be competing to start for England and Man United, his football brain is hugely underestimated and I can see him playing 8 and Mainoo hybrid 8/10 with Bruno wide right or False 9.

I would t wait to the summer is bring him back for £10-12m in winter transfer window, spurs are looking at him and he’s a no brainer signing.
 
How many of our current midfield options are for sure better than Angel?
Not many and none who can play 6/DLP, creative 8 and a genuine 10 just resign him and bring him home we spent £93m on pogba which was a massive waste, this one just makes too much sense, so hopefully Ashworth with his England connection is all over it.
 
Since we are talking about his height, Rico Lewis is reportedly 169cm, while Gomes is supposed to be 168. Only one cm difference? Doesn't look to be the case watching them together on the pitch. Gomes must be something like 164.
Rico Lewis is 19, so he is actively growing. Just like it was with Mainoo and others, those height numbers for youngsters are getting outdated pretty fast.
 
Not everything bad that happens in life is a mistake, a bad decision, incompetence or malice. Sometimes shit happens.

If a young footballer gets it in his head that his career is best served by a fresh start then it won’t always be possible to convince him otherwise. There’s so many intangibles behind decisions like Gomes or Obi-Martin. What are they being told by friends and family? Ditto for their agent. What sort of biases do they hold? What sort of person are they? Are they naturally impatient and always looking for a change? Are they a home birds or do they see the change to live abroad as a positive? etc etc etc

The fact that all clubs, even the biggest and best, lose young talents just proves that you can’t win them all. Over the years United have, if anything, been better than most at holding on to talents (we haven’t let a De Bruyne or Salah move on, like Chelsea, thank feck) so we’ve no reason to think that Gomes moving on was something we could have prevented.
but we spent a shit lot on buying back Pogba :lol:
 
If he wants to come back, definitely a no brainer to bring him back on a free next summer. He wouldn't be a starter but a quality squad player to rotate with Mainoo or Bruno.
definitely a no brainer. if it doesn’t work out again, we can just hire him out to be chained to stags on their stag dos.
 
Not many and none who can play 6/DLP, creative 8 and a genuine 10 just resign him and bring him home we spent £93m on pogba which was a massive waste, this one just makes too much sense, so hopefully Ashworth with his England connection is all over it.
I really hope Ugarte hits the ground running but our options and depth at midfield seems paperthin at the moment.
Kobbie is a massive talent but is young and has a few things to improve still. Should not play 90 every game and be such an important player for a club of our size, at that age. But yeah, he is up there and could maybe be seen as abetter player than Gomes. Bruno has been one of our best players since his arrival and is most probably a bit better at the nr 10 position.
But that is kinda of it. Casemiro is done at the highest level. Eriksen is too. Collyer is probably not the level of talent we need. Mount is still here but i would not say he is better at anything bar pressing and picking up injuries. There should be plenty of minutes for him here.
 
Gomes seems to be the type of player I want Mainoo to develop into. Unfortunately either ETH is actively developing him into a different type of player, or Mainoo is just naturally predisposed into being more offensive rather than a controller.

As such, the two of them together next to a more defensive-minded midfielder (Ugarte?) should work well in theory. The question is how often we'd see that though while Bruno is still here and expecting to play, and whether we'd be able to assure Gomes he'd get enough minutes for him to come back.
 
Gomes seems to be the type of player I want Mainoo to develop into. Unfortunately either ETH is actively developing him into a different type of player, or Mainoo is just naturally predisposed into being more offensive rather than a controller.

As such, the two of them together next to a more defensive-minded midfielder (Ugarte?) should work well in theory. The question is how often we'd see that though while Bruno is still here and expecting to play, and whether we'd be able to assure Gomes he'd get enough minutes for him to come back.
I don't think there is anything wrong with Bruno still here, being the main option as of right now. The problem is that Bruno plays no matter what. Ideally you would also want Mainoo getting minutes as a 10, even if his main position is an 8. Having rotation is healthy, and having players fighting for their spot is also healthy. It would be the same with Gomes and say a Wharton coming in. Even if the midfield only has 3 spots, having 5-6 players fighting for spots is good. It gives the manager options to change it up when going up against different opponents. You could go defensive with Wharton and Ugarte. Or a team that we can dominate with possession, it would help having Gomes and Mainoo in over Ugarte.

Every player that is brought in is going to back themselves. They're not going to look at themselves as squad players. Even if they start off on the bench, they will still have belief that they can win over the manager with their performances. Otherwise, how else do other big clubs have great bench options that still perform when asked to?
 
Free? Good? Young? Homegrown? Man Utd fans? Similar to FDJ's style of play? ETH obsessed with FDJ?

Bring him back!
 
I think he’d be competing to start for England and Man United, his football brain is hugely underestimated and I can see him playing 8 and Mainoo hybrid 8/10 with Bruno wide right or False 9.

I would t wait to the summer is bring him back for £10-12m in winter transfer window, spurs are looking at him and he’s a no brainer signing.

I don’t see him as a no-brainer signing in the PL, I see the athleticism of the league proving very challenging for him to adapt to.
 
Apparently now Newcastle's top target.
Him going there would be a disaster for us.
 
I would love to see him at Newcastle/Tottenham. Or any team in the PL where he would be a regular starter, he wouldnt be here with Mainoo. Dont see why he would come here and compete with the same guy he competes with on the National level, doesnt make any sense for him career wise.
 
I would love to see him at Newcastle/Tottenham. Or any team in the PL where he would be a regular starter, he wouldnt be here with Mainoo. Dont see why he would come here and compete with the same guy he competes with on the National level, doesnt make any sense for him career wise.
He would get plenty of games here.
 
I don’t see him as a no-brainer signing in the PL, I see the athleticism of the league proving very challenging for him to adapt to.
You know football a simple game and clever players make it even simpler, if you keep the ball and have technical players like Gomes that can go past players and draw fouls you normally eventually that type of team wears your opponents down, I mean prime Messi 5’7 or Prine Maradona 5’5 would still have dominated this very physical league in the same way Pep’s football which was never suppose to dominate the PL way back in 2016/17 has!

Scholes had asthma 5’7/8 and was one of the greats, Gomes is only going to get better especially as he moves to his next team whether that’s us, Spurs, Milan or Dortmund.
 
Why would it be a disaster exactly? Decent player moves to wee club in the North East, hardly worth worrying about.
It'd be a 'disaster' to many a media source and subsequently a large portion of Red Cafe's finest.

Him joining a 'big club' as an international would be 'proof' of United being a basket-case comedy car-crash or some-such brainless clickbait, even if he has about two or three decent games and appears when they beat us once.

See Elanga for further details.