The main and likely only reason Giggs and Rooney are played out on the left is mainly due to Nani having turned in rubbish performances.
I'd say it's a big slight on Nani.
Angel Di Maria
- Thread starter Drifter
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
The main and likely only reason Giggs and Rooney are played out on the left is mainly due to Nani having turned in rubbish performances.
I'd say it's a big slight on Nani.
So not to give Tevez more chances last season (and not have to drop our record signing) and not to have our first choice central midfield (Fletcher and Carrick) start most matches this season?
If you say so.
As I said, Nani should have done more to make himself undroppable. But there are other good reasons Rooney spent some time on the left last season - and it was only a few games - and why Giggs is playing left wing this season and doing so better than anyone else in europe.
SAF never worries about dropping star players (regardless of cost) if it's going to better the team. It's been the hallmark of his reign as manager.
I didnt say he worried. I said that by playing wide left he could play Tevez and Berbatov at the same time. And he did so on occasion.
Fair enough...
What's your point?
Are you saying Nani's been a success at United?
Has his value increased over the last couple of years?
Of course it fecking hasn't.
You're doing your usual shtick of going off an inane, pedantic tangent, rather than concede a point in a debate. Specifically that this Di Maria bloke - who is being hyped as one of Europe's most exciting young talents - is probably worth a good bit more than someone who's already tried and failed to establish himself at the very highest level.
If you actually bothered to read posts before replying, you'd already see the answer to this question.
Should be somewhere similar given he's performed well on the international stage and is far more experienced now.
Nani had the same hype, with a similar record, in the same league, at a younger age.
He may well be a better bet than Nani in England but Nani has already proven himself just as much in Portugal. So he would be a good option for Benfica in part exchange. If he did go there and played well they'd definately get the better of a Nani + £9 million swap.
You're the one going off on a tangent from this, my original point that you responded to. Just to kick Nani a few more times which is obviously your favourite pass-time. We get it, you arent a fan.
You're out of your tiny mind if you think Nani's worth more now than he was when we signed him.
In fairness, at the age he was bought, much of his fee was based on potential rather than his being a £17m player. Now that he seems to be underwhelming, that doesn't come into play-or at least not to the same extent-so naturally his fee will be appreciably lower.
Being worth more isnt the same as having more money paid for him.
I believe we met the price needed to release him from his Sporting contract. The same with Anderson and Porto. Nani has most likely learnt new things, proven himself somewhat in the champions league being part of the side that won the competition and established himself more with Portugal especially in recent times. He's also helped win the premier league. He'd never won anything when we bought him. I'm sure all of this will be used when trying to establish a fee for a buying club, if we were to do that.
If he were to go to Benfica where he would very likely have an easier time of realising his potential in a weaker league and in a less pressurised environment, and play the good football he's capable of and showed in his very early performances this season, Benfica would have a much better player than Angel Di Maria.
If a side wants to buy Nani, they would need to pay for this possible upside, not just for a player you would presume wouldnt establish himself like he hasnt established himself at United. He isnt a nailed on failure in Portugal, he's almost the opposite. And if he actually put a string of good performances together for us, he's proven he's good enough when he plays well. But not consistant and dependable enough in the long term. He's not a player with no value. A year from today he could be a player with a very high value.
You'd do well do get half your money back.
Well they could very much sign him and end up selling him for £25m plus in the future if he has a Quaresma like re-form in Portugal, which wouldn't be unlikely.
Agreed. Though the pricetag of players is normally higher than it was when Nani was bought. I'd say 10m is an absolute maximum.
Are you in fact saying that, ceteris paribus, Nani is a better player than Di Maria as of now?
What is to say that he isn't? I don't get it... is Di Maria really 'that player'?
Classic!
Only you could come out with drivel like that rather than simply concede that yes, Nani is worth less now than he was when we signed him. Seriously, you'd be a good poster if you weren't so bloody-minded.
It's only when you back yourself into a corner and STILL refuse to accept one of your comments was wide of the mark that you end up coming across as a bit of a spastic.
We would be doing fecking well to re-coup much over half of what Nani was valued at when we signed him - whether on part-ex or not - irrespective of which club is bidding. His stock has fallen considerably in the last couple of years.
Potential not taken into consideration and therefore the age gap not taken into consideration, yes. Nani has more to his game and has proven himself a lot more. Right now he's the better player but we arent getting the most from him and seemingly, the manager has lost faith in him.
The real question is, will Di Maria be a better player in a year's time? And that nobody knows. But my personal opinion is that Nani has more potential even if his development hasnt been very good since he came to the club. Moving club could easily sort that out for him.
There's nothing to say Di Maria's development would be any better at a big club. He'd be the exact same gamble Nani was. Perhaps even more so given that he'd be coming over a year later with less time on his side. You'd have to hope he'd settle in better though.
That and I dont think there are that great an amount of talented/semi-proven left footed, left sided players out there. Di Maria and Mata aside. Which should make Di Maria more useful than a right footed left sided player.
Classic!
Only you could come out with drivel like that rather than simply concede that yes, Nani is worth less now than he was when we signed him. Seriously, you'd be a good poster if you weren't so bloody-minded.
It's only when you back yourself into a corner and STILL refuse to accept one of your comments was wide of the mark that you end up coming across as a bit of a spastic.
We would be doing fecking well to re-coup much over half of what Nani was valued at when we signed him - whether on part-ex or not - irrespective of which club is bidding. His stock has fallen considerably in the last couple of years.
Right. So you believe that every transfer fee paid for every player represents value and doesnt take into account what the player could become in the future?
I dont know how concrete the info was, but it was said that we paid the buyout fees for Anderson and Nani because other clubs were sniffing around and we didnt want to lose out.
If thats true, A) They came over earlier than we had wanted B) We paid more than what we would have paid if other clubs werent making things difficult for us. That suggests we werent 100% keen on paying whatever we did for Nani and Anderson until we faced losing those players we had spent a long time scouting to other clubs.
Certainly in this case I think we overpaid at the time feeling that these two young players will develop well and become players worthy of those price tags. But were they worth the fees at the time? Probably not.
I'd be happy if we got around 6 Million.
I would wait till the Summer Window to get rid of Nani, if he by any luck performs well in the World Cup than his price tag will be inflated by at least 4-5 Mil. Although going by his recent standard of performances, perhaps I am being too positive about him.
I've been watching him in the Europa League this season and I watched him yesterday for Argentina (against Catalunya). This lad is amazing.
Quick, skillful, he's a goal threat. Left-footed as well, he can play on the right or the left, often swapping wings during a match.
The only real concern I'd have is that he looks a bit lightweight - he needs to bulk up.
To be honest he kind of reminds me of a better version of Tosic. (That may be a bad thing though, I don't know.)
I think you're being a bit hasty there.
Especially since there's a couple of Portuguese posters who think he's still got a lot to prove.
Think both have a good chance of doing well at either club, there's a chance both of them could become stars.
Just don't see why you'd rather look at it from a negative point of view, seems like a positive move to me.
Good thinking Karan.
He's actually turned in good performances for Portugal over time.
Think we'd get around £10m for Nani.
Quaresma went for around £17m to Inter, and I don't see a lot of difference in them in terms of attitude or ability. Nani's just not proven himself yet, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't prove to be at a similar level to Quaresma, so I think there's a number of clubs who'd take a gamble on him for a decent price.
Then again we're not usually ones who try to drive up the price of the player, especially if it's potentially detrimental to the players' career to price him out of a move. I think we're usually fairer than most when selling players.
Quaresma went for around £17m to Inter, and I don't see a lot of difference in them in terms of attitude or ability. Nani's just not proven himself yet, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't prove to be at a similar level to Quaresma, so I think there's a number of clubs who'd take a gamble on him for a decent price.
Then again we're not usually ones who try to drive up the price of the player, especially if it's potentially detrimental to the players' career to price him out of a move. I think we're usually fairer than most when selling players.
I disagree; I think, from what I've seen of him at least, Di Maria is already a much more accomplished player than Nani.
Ekeke said:
For fecks sake, you make it sound like it's United's fault that he hasn't fulfilled his potential!
Karan Mittal said:
By the same token, the value of any replacement that we may bring in could also have gone higher. And Portugal aren't exactly in the easiest of groups, it may even go down. Just a thought..
You concede that Nani is worth less now than we paid for him? Good. That's progress, of a sort.
Now, do you or don't you think this Di Maria bloke will cost someone at least as much as what we paid for Nani, if not more?
God, you do chat some utter shite.
Can Di Maria deliver class performances week in week out? that's the question you have to ask before splashing the cash, Nani has so far proven he can't, everytime I've seen Di Maria I've liked him but unsure on whether he's the answer.. he doesn't excite me like a young Robben for instance, doesn't posess great close control but he is a fearsome striker of the ball and very direct, he's all about end product rather than amazing build up play. He's not worth £20 mil + in my eyes, too many players in the modern game are tagged with extortionate prices.
just a sample of a full game with touches:
I think we can sign better players, If we were to get him £10 mil would be fair.
just a sample of a full game with touches:
I think we can sign better players, If we were to get him £10 mil would be fair.
Have to say I'm not all that sure he will, seems like Benfica trying to drive his price up more than anything and I'd be surprised if teams are willing to pay the sort of money talked about.
I think he'll go for a pretty similar fee, but then that's assuming the fee we paid was around the £17m(maximum) mark I have stuck in my head.
I'm not sure he's worth less now than what we paid for him. Playing well he's worth more and he's a lot more likely to play well at a new club dont you think? I think he was definately worth less than what we paid for him at the time.
I've no idea as its a different club, at a different time. But if anything he's proven less than than Nani had when we bought him, despite being older than him.
So I think Di Maria for Nani + £9 million would see Benfica get the better end of the deal even if Di Maria was a better player for us than Nani has been.
I wouldnt be surprised if they were to then sell him off for £20 million+ in a couple of years. He's better than Simao or Quaresma in my opinion and they both had big money moves from Portuguese clubs in recent years. Benfica would be laughing.
Figured out how to shoot straight yet?
I guess because I still believe in Nani's talent and that he will still become one of the best wingers in the world in the next 3 or 4 years, whether he's still at United or not.
I mean you saw all the delirium about Ribery a year ago. He had done nothing more than Nani has so far by 23. He still has a lot of years ahead of him where, if he develops right, he can become the player he has the potential to be. The main reason I wouldnt be too upset if Nani left the club, as long as there was some sort of value to the deal, is because Sir Alex clearly has no faith in him and it doesnt suit us or him to have him not playing games. We deserve better from an expensive player and he deserves better than being left in the cold.
As for Di Maria I havent seen him too much for Benfica, but for Argentina he hasnt looked a more effective player than Nani. From what I have seen of him, I think he has less talent than Nani. But I do think him being left footed is a big bonus.
In all honesty I think they're probably worth about the same right now. But Nani would give them more of a shot in the arm than Di Maria would immediately give to us.
Agreed, if we are looking for a potential star then there are good options elsewhere. He doesn't strike me as someone special, don't think he'd be too much of an improvement over Nani either.
So the argument against signing Di Maria from some in here is the fear he could be the new Nani or possibly worse? righto.....
We could sign him, then edit his potential ability to 200.
Is he another D'Allesandro?
Di maria is a very talented player but for every great game he has he has two where hes simply awful,as of now i dont think hes better than Nani at all the difference between the two is that while DiMaria plays almost every game Nani plays once every month and therefor Di Maria has more chances to show is talent and improve than Nani has.
For Me if Benfica gets a good offer for Di MAria they should sell him now that hes hot without thinking twice,he can become a great player in the future but at the present Benfica has other players like Fabio Coentrao that can do everything he does and with more consistency and also there is talks about Simao coming back next season,so if a big offer comes i think Benfica will and should sell him cause the club needs some money and we have players that can replace him.
For Me if Benfica gets a good offer for Di MAria they should sell him now that hes hot without thinking twice,he can become a great player in the future but at the present Benfica has other players like Fabio Coentrao that can do everything he does and with more consistency and also there is talks about Simao coming back next season,so if a big offer comes i think Benfica will and should sell him cause the club needs some money and we have players that can replace him.
Well there you have it from a Benfica fan. Cant say fairer than that, thanks for the info.
Have what exactly? An opinion from someone who probably hasn't seen that much of Nani and is putting a brave face on losing di Maria.
I get to see all the united games here so i have seen as much of Nani as you have and probably more considering that i see him play for the national side.
and why should i put on a brave face about losing Di Maria when i just said that if the offer is good we should sell him.