ran the show against Olhanense. 2 assists and a goal, the first one was rabona as well. More and more he looks like a complete player. Hope we go for him.
Angel Di Maria
- Thread starter Drifter
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Agreed.
Man Utd offer cash, Anderson for Benfica wing star Di Maria
Manchester United are making a swap offer for Benfica winger Angel di Maria.
Record says United are willing to offer cash plus midfielder Anderson in exchange for the free scoring winger.
United's opening offer is the Brazil international, currently recovering from knee surgery, plus £8 million for Di Maria.
Benfica rate Di Maria at £35 million.
Manchester United are making a swap offer for Benfica winger Angel di Maria.
Record says United are willing to offer cash plus midfielder Anderson in exchange for the free scoring winger.
United's opening offer is the Brazil international, currently recovering from knee surgery, plus £8 million for Di Maria.
Benfica rate Di Maria at £35 million.
Haha
15 goals in 117 games for Benfica - hardly 'free scoring' is it?
Plus, the story is bullshit. He's going to R. Madrid.
Plus, the story is bullshit. He's going to R. Madrid.
I think compared to Anderson, he is free scoring.
Plus, going by that story, if Benfica rate him at £35m and are offering Anderson + £8m. Then that means we rate Anderson at £27m.
Errr ok. We's be lucky to get £12m for Anderson.
Errr ok. We's be lucky to get £12m for Anderson.
I remember a deal of Nani plus 15Mil was being reported by the newspapers in January, Don't think we are gonna sell Ando this season.
Not really, it just means that we don't rate Di Maria at £35m.
This cash plus player thing never happens. Never. Not a quote on the article. Doesn't even deserve to be discussed this topic. A central midfielder plus cash for a winger!. Journo's these days are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel!
Fair point.
But if we dont rate a player at the price their club do, then it's a waste of time looking at him.
or you enter into 'negotiations' for the player and try to meet in a middle ground.
Gallas moved to Arsenal as part of Ashley Cole's transfer to Chelsea. Keith Gillespie moved to Newcastle when we signed Andy Cole. I'm sure there are others.
Eto plus Cash for Ibra
Can't see Benfica having any interest in Anderson, especially while he's still injured.
Still cant help but laugh at the insanity of that transfer....what a bunch of cocks it must have taken to agree to that deal...step forward Joan Laporta!
Wasn't Maxwell part of that deal too? Or was his transfer seperate?
Why would anybody in England wants to buy an argie that sooner than later will be asking to be sold to RM, Barcelona or Inter???
Anderson is hugely rated in Portugal. They'd take him in a heart beat. With the added value of severely annoying Porto fans if that happened.
United would be losing with a deal of this type, in my opinion. Only advantage of Di María is that he fits your 4-4-2 a lot better than Anderson (I think he's wasted in United playing as a CM to be honest). In terms of class and potential, I think Anderson is better.
Cuz we're muppets, ok?
How was Anderson deployed at Porto? Did he lead a diamond or play in a similar role? To be honest, he had some promising games in the centre as a DM/CM but has obviously been wildly inconsistent and seems to lack some fundamentals of playing the position. I think he'd be better off further up the pitch (say, in behind Rooney) but his lack of goal threat maybe hinders that possibility. That said, he can play some lovely diagonal passes from deep and influence play from there but I don't think giving him too much defensive responsibility is a great idea when he can offer a decent amount in attack. Hope he's back for the start of the season and we can find a suitable role for him in the team.
If Anderson leaves us, watch him get played as an AM and become a brilliant player. Seriously, just watch it happen.
He was the most advanced midfielder in a 3-man midfield (we usually play 4-3-3 since Mourinho left) and I think he could also be the front-man in a diamond formation. He had a free attacking role and was a big goal threat as he proved in Gremio, Porto and Brazil U-17's. Only in Manchester United he stopped scoring goals.
I think his game is highly affected by the tactical rigidity on his current positioning in the pitch. In fact we all commented on our forums that the way Manchester played it was a weird signing as he was not mature or important enough to have the tactics changed because of him. At the time I thought he would be given the left-midfield role, when I heard he was to be a future replacement of Scholes I had the impression you would be disappointed.
He has some tackle and high pressuring ability, recovering a lot of balls in the front, but this was regarded as a bonus, not something on which his game should be based about.
I always thought he would stay more time at Porto, and then go to Spain or Italy where I think he would be used in a totally different fashion. I think he had the potential to be the best in the world, now I'm not so sure anymore.
My thoughts exactly. This was meant to be a Maradona/Ronaldinho player in terms of impact in the pitch, not a high-working midfielder with reliability but no flair. I think that time is gone though, these years at United gave him other skills but also certainly hindered part of his magic and goal confidence.
IIRC when Anderson was "allowed" to play in advanced positions he didn't really excel.
True but Manchester United also doesn't have a routined formation where a player with his characteristics would fit well. I just think it was an unmatched marriage.
There was enough there in the first season for us to see the potential he has. Seriously, some of the passes he played were crazy - but sadly he hasn't been anywhere near consistent enough. I understand that young players will be all over the shop with regards to performance levels but he ranges from looking top drawer to conference level, it's that bad! I still have faith and think he'll get it together though - hopefully his injuries wont have dented his confidence too much.
Thanks man. The thing is, the qualities that he's learned can be extremely useful even higher up the pitch - as you say his pressing is very good and he's a beast physically too. The other elements of his game that obviously would need to improve are his consistency of passing and his goal threat. I would say his goal threat could easily make a re-appearance - I don't particularly want to compare him to Fabregas who is light years ahead of Anderson but he had a similar problem in front of goal, which was ironed out about three seasons ago. I think provided that he works hard in training to make these improvements it'll happen for him.
I hope the injuries haven't ruined these elements of his game but we'll see. He's always said since he's been here that he's changed his game since the injury he had at Porto - I just hope it's out of being coached in a certain way rather than his own confidence disappearing. His dribbling with the ball, passing, and physicality have always been at United, even if the other skills haven't and it should still be enough to make him a very good player.
SAPO Desporto
On this link you can see some of his plays at Porto, other than the goals you all probably seen in youtube already. The 3rd from the top row could have been a superb goal. You can see how confident he was in possession and how is strength on the ball was useful to win a lot of rebounds in attack - better than sitting in the midfield... I also remind you that he's 17 or early 18 in most of those videos.
The tag "jogada" means he was the one to perform the shot. In the 2nd and 3rd page you can see some superb passes tagged with shots from other players.
On this link you can see some of his plays at Porto, other than the goals you all probably seen in youtube already. The 3rd from the top row could have been a superb goal. You can see how confident he was in possession and how is strength on the ball was useful to win a lot of rebounds in attack - better than sitting in the midfield... I also remind you that he's 17 or early 18 in most of those videos.
The tag "jogada" means he was the one to perform the shot. In the 2nd and 3rd page you can see some superb passes tagged with shots from other players.
Cheers. Great pass into Adriano for this one: FC Porto, golo Adriano, 46 min, 2-0 - SAPO Desporto
A lot of passes from deep too in those clips.
This post accounted for 18 words.
You now have 1982 words left in your essay, due in for 11 AM tomorrow.
Any deal involving an exchange of players in this case makes absolutely no sense really, why would we use up important funds plus let a central midfield player and a very promising central midfield player at that leave to sign another winger?, which is probably the last area in the team full stop that needs strengthening, would Di Maria oust Nani at the moment? not a chance, and Valencia has been devastating down the right, i rate both as better wingers than Di Maria anyway, if it aint broke……
The deal would just make no logical sense, wed be weakening an already rather weak area (central midfield) whilst adding nothing to our first eleven in terms of quality on the flanks in the process....as well as tossing away millions that could be better spent on strengthening areas we genuinely DO need to invest in.
There’s no chance Anderson is leaving anyway in my opinion, wed be stupid to just cast off a very talented and promising young player like that so quickly and Sir Alex is notorious for his patience with youngsters, especially after the way Nanis blossomed in the last half of this campaign that alone is a lesson in itself of how quickly things can click, if there were even any doubts in Fergies mind Nanis emergence will make him give Anderson more time, Theres no reason whatsoever why Anderson cant do exactly what Nanis done and fulfil the bucket loads of ability he clearly has, he just needs the games.
The deal would just make no logical sense, wed be weakening an already rather weak area (central midfield) whilst adding nothing to our first eleven in terms of quality on the flanks in the process....as well as tossing away millions that could be better spent on strengthening areas we genuinely DO need to invest in.
There’s no chance Anderson is leaving anyway in my opinion, wed be stupid to just cast off a very talented and promising young player like that so quickly and Sir Alex is notorious for his patience with youngsters, especially after the way Nanis blossomed in the last half of this campaign that alone is a lesson in itself of how quickly things can click, if there were even any doubts in Fergies mind Nanis emergence will make him give Anderson more time, Theres no reason whatsoever why Anderson cant do exactly what Nanis done and fulfil the bucket loads of ability he clearly has, he just needs the games.
I've had to read Bourdieu, which wasn't very challenging because as you know, my French is amazing.
Not that French had anything to do with it, it was translated.
I agree, I wouldn't be in favour of a swap deal just yet. I haven't seen too much of Di Maria but I agree that getting a winger isn't the top priority at the moment - though I think we could do with one more. Central midfield needs sorting first - i wouldn't be surprised to see Anderson carry on there in certain games but I wouldn't be surprised to see him behind Rooney either. Really so much depends on our business in the summer - you'd assume we would be looking at getting someone who could play alone up front as well, unless Sir Alex has a huge amount of faith in Hernandez, Diouf, Macheda & Welbeck. Berbatov might be on his bike but he hasn't really played well up top on his own when given the opportunity and Owen = fitness problems. Ideally we'd get someone who could play off Rooney as well as alone up front - someone like Benzema/Higuain I think would be very good. Higuain can play high up the pitch on the wing too as he did for Real Madrid a while back but obviously only if necessary.
CM would still need to be addressed but Anderson could then give us options higher up the pitch - or at least with not too many defensive responsibilities. His pressing and physicality are brilliant so the rest of his abilities can hopefully shine through in a role that can get the best out of him and thus the team. He could definitely play CM against weaker opposition anyway but I think long term it would be better for him to nail down a position and work on improving his game for that role (i.e. Rooney as the lone striker).
I'm tempted to believe the opinion of someone who followed Anderson closely in Portugal but that bit in bold is just nonsense, which unfortunately makes me doubt everything else you say.
He only played for Gremio's first team 5 times, scoring one goal. He played 18 times for Porto and scored twice.
I don't know and I couldn't really care about the amount of goals he scored for Brazil's U-17s. If underage goals was a criteria on which we judged someone's goal threat we'd play Fabio as a striker.
"Big goal threat" my arse.
He scored more at Gremio, you're probably confusing his time at Serie B as non-first team football (when it was). Brazilian wiki (which is naturally more comprehensive in this part of his career) as him at 6 goals in 19 games at Gremio.
Those 18 matches at Porto I don't think more than 3 or 4 he was a starter.
By goal threat I mean he was constantly very close to scoring. Clearly his finishing was not striker-quality but at 17 you couldn't expect much better from a midfielder. Those 2 goals still were twice than what he achieved in United (in a LOT more playing time). The times I saw him at United he was a lot farther from goal than what I was used to see. The thing is goals seemed to be a natural part of his future, not that he actually scored many. It's not like he had enough time for it anyway, playing 20 minutes at a time when he was in Porto. But when he came in he always seemed likely to score and he did it twice, which was very good.
Still, his 8 goals in roughly 40 games pre-United are a lot more than his 1 goal in over 50 games at United.
See, that also bugs me.
I must have heard dozens of caftards who seem absolutely convinced they know exactly what type of player and how he should best be used, after watching him start 3 or 4 games for Porto, a bunch of substitute appearances for the same team and only a handful of games for Gremio's first team.
Since he left Porto he's started 73 games (plus 26 sub appearances) for Manchester United, in a lot of different positions, including plenty of games in the "free role" (i.e. most advance of a midfield three) everyone thinks he needs to excel. I would say that anyone who has followed him closely at United is far better placed to judge the qualities he has - and the way in which he could best be used - than someone who watched his intermittent and infrequent appearances for his previous clubs.
And yet they weren't interested in Nani + cash, is he not so well thought of in Portugal?
Reading through your other posts I see you feel Anderson would be best played as a #10 type role like Kaka', I often feel we will never have that kind of player b/c it requires a regular 4-3-3 and Fergie will never give up on two wingers.
By intermittent and infrequent appearances you mean 40 games (regardless of time) in which he was never deployed in a central midfield position. Are you denying that this was the idea that SAF had in mind for him when he signed him? SAF certainly knows in which position he's more useful at United. That's not the point. The point is that it was a bad career move for him (at least from what was seen until now) to go there. And at the price you all payed for him I'm sure you also expected something different. This is not hindsight, this was our opinion at the time and so far it seems spot on.
We're not football morons here, we know what player we had, what he used to do before he came and what he did here. We had our share of good players that left and not one - not Jardel, not Deco or Carvalho, not Lisandro or Lucho - left the fans so despaired for not being able to see more of him. People went berserk here and there's a reason for that, despite at 31.5 million euros being our most expensive sale ever.
And we all questioned at the time? Why now, and why United? Were will they fit him in the pitch? They don't use that sort of player...
He was expected to be world-class now. Sure, there are a million reasons that could prevent this from happening, a lot of players get lost on that rise to stardom. The thing is that with him we'll never know, because he went to a place where a level of teamwork, tactical discipline and defensive duties were expected from him. It's not a few odd games in a "free-role" position in a team that doesn't even play like that most of the time that's gonna make up for the fact that he was retrained to a different role than the one he was originally best at.
"Big arse" no goal threat. Anderson has never looked like a CM to me though.
Fairly decent posting here for a change...
One thing to note. Anderson has said in the past he personally felt he had lost of his vitality after the injury. In general though im inclined to agree that he has not be used as effectively as he could have been at United. Weve not often given him the park role for instance. From time to time but very much in a patchwork sense if you get my meaning.
Out of interest are your portuguese?