Andreas Georgson - New Set-Piece Coach

[Pogue Mahone]

We should’ve have another with the De Ligt chance against Palace too. They’re definitely better already.

Also the JZ chance in the same game.

 

[Marwood]

Will always be baffled by this requiring a separate coach.

Manager and multiple assistants paid a fortune and they don't know how to work corners and free kicks?

 

[Nogho]

Will always be baffled by this requiring a separate coach.

Manager and multiple assistants paid a fortune and they don't know how to work corners and free kicks?

Rich people and in this case a rich club, seems to find ways to spend money. (The rich part comes with an asterisk, but yeah)

 

[didz]

Will always be baffled by this requiring a separate coach.

Manager and multiple assistants paid a fortune and they don't know how to work corners and free kicks?

It's all about getting that extra percentage on your opponents. Naturally, someone who has spent their entire career focusing on set pieces should give you that, rather than a set of coaches who have done a bit of everything.

Your GP is a doctor, but if you need a diagnosis on a neurological issue, they'll defer to a neurologist - a specialist.

 

[Jock Steins Boots]

They'll be hiring a throw-in coach next.

 

[pcaming]

Will always be baffled by this requiring a separate coach.

Manager and multiple assistants paid a fortune and they don't know how to work corners and free kicks?

Well they don't seem know to work defending, passing or attacking, so that's not surprising

 

[Marwood]

It's all about getting that extra percentage on your opponents. Naturally, someone who has spent their entire career focusing on set pieces should give you that, rather than a set of coaches who have done a bit of everything.

Your GP is a doctor, but if you need a diagnosis on a neurological issue, they'll defer to a neurologist - a specialist.

Not sure the analogy works as neuroscience is obviously very complicated and absolutely requires a higher paid, higher level individual. There's also very obvious evidence that using a neurologist for neurology works.

This is taking a corner.

If the highest paid member of the coaching staff, millions of pounds a year, doesn't know how to do it, defers to a lower paid member of staff, it's a poor state of affairs.

Never mind there being no clear evidence a set piece coach even works.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Looks like we'll also need a coach for "wanting it more" based on Eriksen's comments

 

[didz]

Not sure the analogy works as neuroscience is obviously very complicated and absolutely requires a higher paid, higher level individual. There's also very obvious evidence that using a neurologist for neurology works.

This is taking a corner.

If the highest paid member of the coaching staff, millions of pounds a year, doesn't know how to do it, it's a poor state of affairs.

Never mind there being no clear evidence a set piece coach even works.

By that logic, absolutely no analogy "works" because they're never identical. The point of them is to draw comparisons on specific parts of two things that are obviously not identical.

 

[saik]

If the highest paid member of the coaching staff, millions of pounds a year, doesn't know how to do it, defers to a lower paid member of staff, it's a poor state of affairs.

Never mind there being no clear evidence a set piece coach even works.

You literally have to look at Arsenal and see their set piece coach jumping along with Arteta every time they score from a set piece to have clear evidence.

And at the top level, where the margin for error is very small, there is nothing wrong with looking for marginal gains. Ange probably is the only one to diss on having a specialist set piece coach and they have one of the poorest records among the big clubs in the PL for defending set pieces.

 

[Marwood]

By that logic, absolutely no analogy "works" because they're never identical. The point of them is to draw comparisons on specific parts of two things that are obviously not identical.

No there's a third option. An anology that works. Doesn't have to be identical. But does actually need to make sense.

You literally have to look at Arsenal and see their set piece coach jumping along with Arteta every time they score from a set piece to have clear evidence.

And at the top level, where the margin for error is very small, there is nothing wrong with looking for marginal gains. Ange probably is the only one to diss on having a specialist set piece coach and they have one of the poorest records among the big clubs in the PL for defending set pieces.

So Arsenal are proof that set piece coaches work.

We've had set piece coaches for years and are rubbish at them.

How do you square that up?

 

[didz]

No there's a third option. An anology that works. Doesn't have to be identical. But does actually need to make sense.



So Arsenal are proof that set piece coaches work.

We've had set piece coaches for years and are rubbish at them.

How do you square that up?

I'm too tired to continue trying to explain analogies to you, and you're too obstinate to try to learn, so let's leave it there.

 

[saik]

So Arsenal are proof that set piece coaches work.

We've had set piece coaches for years and are rubbish at them.

How do you square that up?

Do you dispute this? I've just given one clear example, there probably might have been others.

Did we have a specialist all these years? And were they highly rated specifically for set pieces before they came here?

It's the responsibility of both players and the coaches to be good at them but I don't see what's wrong with hiring a specialist.

 

[Chipper]

I don't think clubs necessarily need a set piece coach. Managers often want one and must belive they add value so why not? It can't hurt.

Without doing an immese amount of research it's difficult to assess their exact impact. Arsenal's coach came in around the same time Gabriel signed for them, and Saka who takes them emerged from the youth team. How do we figure out how much of if it is Gabriel being naturally great at attacking the ball in both boxes, Saka naturally having top delivery and how much is it something that their set piece coach brought to the table?

We might look at the De Ligt or Mazraoui signings in either box. De Ligt being good at attcking the ball too, Mazraoui being fairly tall for a full back. Amad is now playing more and taking some corners.

All for having one though if the manger wants one.

 

[Marwood]

Do you dispute this? I've just given one clear example, there probably might have been others.

Did we have a specialist all these years? And were they highly rated specifically for set pieces before they came here?

It's the responsibility of both players and the coaches to be good at them but I don't see what's wrong with hiring a specialist.

I don't know how you can say its down to the set piece coach rather than having individual players who are just good at set pieces. I think that's impossible to say.

Swap Gabriel for Martinez. Swap Saka for Antony.

What happens to Arsenal's set pieces?

Yes we've had a set piece coach since 2021. Eric Ramsey came in under Ole. Poached him from Chelsea. We continued to be rubbish at set pieces.

We now have a new guy but its hard to see anything different other than having some taller players who are good in the air.

The delivery for sure is as bad as its always been.

 

[saik]

I don't know how you can say its down to the set piece coach rather than having individual players who are just good at set pieces. I think that's impossible to say.

Swap Gabriel for Martinez. Swap Saka for Antony.

What happens to Arsenal's set pieces?

Yes we've had a set piece coach since 2021. Eric Ramsey came in under Ole. Poached him from Chelsea. We continued to be rubbish at set pieces.

We now have a new guy but its hard to see anything different other than having some taller players who are good in the air.

The delivery for sure is as bad as its always been.

I've already said its the responsibility of both the players and the coach to be good at them.

There's plenty of videos analyzing Arsenal's set pieces where it's just not down to Gabriel and Saka being good. There's a lot more happening there. It's all about squeezing that extra bit and I don't mind having a specialist if we can get that little bit of advantage.

 

[Grande]

I don't think clubs necessarily need a set piece coach. Managers often want one and must belive they add value so why not? It can't hurt.

Without doing an immese amount of research it's difficult to assess their exact impact. Arsenal's coach came in around the same time Gabriel signed for them, and Saka who takes them emerged from the youth team. How do we figure out how much of if it is Gabriel being naturally great at attacking the ball in both boxes, Saka naturally having top delivery and how much is it something that their set piece coach brought to the table?

We might look at the De Ligt or Mazraoui signings in either box. De Ligt being good at attcking the ball too, Mazraoui being fairly tall for a full back. Amad is now playing more and taking some corners.

All for having one though if the manger wants one.

There is a funny story about how Ferguson even scoffed at set piece practice at all when he came to United. Clayton Blackmore told how he forbid players spending time at it in training, until he one day let Bryan Robson ‘coach’ a corner kick tactic before a game and United scored twice.

The level of analysis developped on set pieces since that day is like comparing checkers to chess. I’d hazard only the very densest checkers players will say there’s not much more to playing chess than checkers. The level of tactical plays, counter-plays and counter-counter-plays are way too many to just hit and hope and expect the same output.

Part of set piece analysis brings, is also the knowledge that some things actually work better than others.

United’s defensive set pieces improved markedly when Eric Ramsay had worked on them for half a season, goals shipped showed this too.

I think we can already now see we have created more chances, situations and ExG on corner kicks than we did last season, and allowed leas defensively too. Of course, until the players start hitting the net more reliably on their opportunities, we will not have too much offensively to show for it, but I think there has been a very visible improvement already.