Andreas Georgson - New Set-Piece Coach

Will always be baffled by this requiring a separate coach.

Manager and multiple assistants paid a fortune and they don't know how to work corners and free kicks?
 
Marwood said:
Will always be baffled by this requiring a separate coach.

Manager and multiple assistants paid a fortune and they don't know how to work corners and free kicks?
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Rich people and in this case a rich club, seems to find ways to spend money. (The rich part comes with an asterisk, but yeah)
 
Marwood said:
Will always be baffled by this requiring a separate coach.

Manager and multiple assistants paid a fortune and they don't know how to work corners and free kicks?
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It's all about getting that extra percentage on your opponents. Naturally, someone who has spent their entire career focusing on set pieces should give you that, rather than a set of coaches who have done a bit of everything.

Your GP is a doctor, but if you need a diagnosis on a neurological issue, they'll defer to a neurologist - a specialist.
 
Marwood said:
Will always be baffled by this requiring a separate coach.

Manager and multiple assistants paid a fortune and they don't know how to work corners and free kicks?
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Well they don't seem know to work defending, passing or attacking, so that's not surprising
 
didz said:
It's all about getting that extra percentage on your opponents. Naturally, someone who has spent their entire career focusing on set pieces should give you that, rather than a set of coaches who have done a bit of everything.

Your GP is a doctor, but if you need a diagnosis on a neurological issue, they'll defer to a neurologist - a specialist.
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Not sure the analogy works as neuroscience is obviously very complicated and absolutely requires a higher paid, higher level individual. There's also very obvious evidence that using a neurologist for neurology works.

This is taking a corner.

If the highest paid member of the coaching staff, millions of pounds a year, doesn't know how to do it, defers to a lower paid member of staff, it's a poor state of affairs.

Never mind there being no clear evidence a set piece coach even works.
 
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Marwood said:
Not sure the analogy works as neuroscience is obviously very complicated and absolutely requires a higher paid, higher level individual. There's also very obvious evidence that using a neurologist for neurology works.

This is taking a corner.

If the highest paid member of the coaching staff, millions of pounds a year, doesn't know how to do it, it's a poor state of affairs.

Never mind there being no clear evidence a set piece coach even works.
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By that logic, absolutely no analogy "works" because they're never identical. The point of them is to draw comparisons on specific parts of two things that are obviously not identical.
 
Marwood said:
If the highest paid member of the coaching staff, millions of pounds a year, doesn't know how to do it, defers to a lower paid member of staff, it's a poor state of affairs.

Never mind there being no clear evidence a set piece coach even works.
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You literally have to look at Arsenal and see their set piece coach jumping along with Arteta every time they score from a set piece to have clear evidence.

And at the top level, where the margin for error is very small, there is nothing wrong with looking for marginal gains. Ange probably is the only one to diss on having a specialist set piece coach and they have one of the poorest records among the big clubs in the PL for defending set pieces.
 
didz said:
By that logic, absolutely no analogy "works" because they're never identical. The point of them is to draw comparisons on specific parts of two things that are obviously not identical.
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No there's a third option. An anology that works. Doesn't have to be identical. But does actually need to make sense.

saik said:
You literally have to look at Arsenal and see their set piece coach jumping along with Arteta every time they score from a set piece to have clear evidence.

And at the top level, where the margin for error is very small, there is nothing wrong with looking for marginal gains. Ange probably is the only one to diss on having a specialist set piece coach and they have one of the poorest records among the big clubs in the PL for defending set pieces.
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So Arsenal are proof that set piece coaches work.

We've had set piece coaches for years and are rubbish at them.

How do you square that up?
 
Marwood said:
No there's a third option. An anology that works. Doesn't have to be identical. But does actually need to make sense.



So Arsenal are proof that set piece coaches work.

We've had set piece coaches for years and are rubbish at them.

How do you square that up?
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I'm too tired to continue trying to explain analogies to you, and you're too obstinate to try to learn, so let's leave it there.
 
Marwood said:
So Arsenal are proof that set piece coaches work.

We've had set piece coaches for years and are rubbish at them.

How do you square that up?
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Do you dispute this? I've just given one clear example, there probably might have been others.

Did we have a specialist all these years? And were they highly rated specifically for set pieces before they came here?

It's the responsibility of both players and the coaches to be good at them but I don't see what's wrong with hiring a specialist.
 
I don't think clubs necessarily need a set piece coach. Managers often want one and must belive they add value so why not? It can't hurt.

Without doing an immese amount of research it's difficult to assess their exact impact. Arsenal's coach came in around the same time Gabriel signed for them, and Saka who takes them emerged from the youth team. How do we figure out how much of if it is Gabriel being naturally great at attacking the ball in both boxes, Saka naturally having top delivery and how much is it something that their set piece coach brought to the table?

We might look at the De Ligt or Mazraoui signings in either box. De Ligt being good at attcking the ball too, Mazraoui being fairly tall for a full back. Amad is now playing more and taking some corners.

All for having one though if the manger wants one.
 
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saik said:
Do you dispute this? I've just given one clear example, there probably might have been others.

Did we have a specialist all these years? And were they highly rated specifically for set pieces before they came here?

It's the responsibility of both players and the coaches to be good at them but I don't see what's wrong with hiring a specialist.
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I don't know how you can say its down to the set piece coach rather than having individual players who are just good at set pieces. I think that's impossible to say.

Swap Gabriel for Martinez. Swap Saka for Antony.

What happens to Arsenal's set pieces?

Yes we've had a set piece coach since 2021. Eric Ramsey came in under Ole. Poached him from Chelsea. We continued to be rubbish at set pieces.

We now have a new guy but its hard to see anything different other than having some taller players who are good in the air.

The delivery for sure is as bad as its always been.
 
Marwood said:
I don't know how you can say its down to the set piece coach rather than having individual players who are just good at set pieces. I think that's impossible to say.

Swap Gabriel for Martinez. Swap Saka for Antony.

What happens to Arsenal's set pieces?

Yes we've had a set piece coach since 2021. Eric Ramsey came in under Ole. Poached him from Chelsea. We continued to be rubbish at set pieces.

We now have a new guy but its hard to see anything different other than having some taller players who are good in the air.

The delivery for sure is as bad as its always been.
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I've already said its the responsibility of both the players and the coach to be good at them.

There's plenty of videos analyzing Arsenal's set pieces where it's just not down to Gabriel and Saka being good. There's a lot more happening there. It's all about squeezing that extra bit and I don't mind having a specialist if we can get that little bit of advantage.
 
Chipper said:
I don't think clubs necessarily need a set piece coach. Managers often want one and must belive they add value so why not? It can't hurt.

Without doing an immese amount of research it's difficult to assess their exact impact. Arsenal's coach came in around the same time Gabriel signed for them, and Saka who takes them emerged from the youth team. How do we figure out how much of if it is Gabriel being naturally great at attacking the ball in both boxes, Saka naturally having top delivery and how much is it something that their set piece coach brought to the table?

We might look at the De Ligt or Mazraoui signings in either box. De Ligt being good at attcking the ball too, Mazraoui being fairly tall for a full back. Amad is now playing more and taking some corners.

All for having one though if the manger wants one.
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There is a funny story about how Ferguson even scoffed at set piece practice at all when he came to United. Clayton Blackmore told how he forbid players spending time at it in training, until he one day let Bryan Robson ‘coach’ a corner kick tactic before a game and United scored twice.

The level of analysis developped on set pieces since that day is like comparing checkers to chess. I’d hazard only the very densest checkers players will say there’s not much more to playing chess than checkers. The level of tactical plays, counter-plays and counter-counter-plays are way too many to just hit and hope and expect the same output.

Part of set piece analysis brings, is also the knowledge that some things actually work better than others.

United’s defensive set pieces improved markedly when Eric Ramsay had worked on them for half a season, goals shipped showed this too.

I think we can already now see we have created more chances, situations and ExG on corner kicks than we did last season, and allowed leas defensively too. Of course, until the players start hitting the net more reliably on their opportunities, we will not have too much offensively to show for it, but I think there has been a very visible improvement already.
 
DownRiver said:
Him and Ugarte are two incomings which I am not too sure about.

I mean, our set-pieces seem to be worse than last year. There seems to be so much confusion and we wasted so much from set-pieces.
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We scored from a corner yesterday
 
Well our set-pieces have been crap this season so I'm a little surprised that he's survived.
 
Blood Mage said:
Well our set-pieces have been crap this season so I'm a little surprised that he's survived.
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We were looking dangerous from them in the first few games but I don't know how much of that is de Ligt coming in and actually knowing how to attack a corner unlike everyone else bar Casemiro. Our short corners are rubbish outside of the one against Southampton and need to be scrapped because everytime we try one it looks like the player receiving the ball is surprised we're doing it. Most of it seems to be our delivery to be honest, Bruno's corners are horrific for the most part. Far too straight and not enough whip on the ball.
 
Blood Mage said:
Well our set-pieces have been crap this season so I'm a little surprised that he's survived.
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Do we ever have good set piece coaches? If we really want the best in that department then we need to rob Arsenals or Villas.
 
DJ_21 said:
Do we ever have good set piece coaches? If we really want the best in that department then we need to rob Arsenals or Villas.
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We kind of already did.

Georgson was Arsenal's set piece coach before he left to pursue a short managerial stint in Sweden and Norway, as well as a year in Southampton that drastically improved their set pieces. I recommend reading about his work in Arsenal and Southampton, as it's seriously impressive.

He is widely considered one of the best set piece coaches in the world.
 
ifightdragons said:
We kind of already did.

Georgson was Arsenal's set piece coach before he left to pursue a short managerial stint in Sweden and Norway, as well as a year in Southampton that drastically improved their set pieces. I recommend reading about his work in Arsenal and Southampton, as it's seriously impressive.

He is widely considered one of the best set piece coaches in the world.
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Yet we’re still bad at set pieces.
 
DJ_21 said:
Yet we’re still bad at set pieces.
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What answer are you actually looking for here? That he's actually crap and just fluked it at Southampton and Arsenal? Or are you just looking for things to be mad about?
 
Samid said:
He survives the chop. Wonder how he'll fit in with the new lot.
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He survived the chop because we were a bit shite on that regard under Amorim. Perhaps his staff needed new blood.

On another issue, it took us almost 4 years to score from a direct freekick.
 
Halftrack said:
What answer are you actually looking for here? That he's actually crap and just fluked it at Southampton and Arsenal? Or are you just looking for things to be mad about?
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Was just stating what’s the point in having a set piece coach. I don’t see us try any new routines. Half the time our set piece takers can’t beat the first man
 
DJ_21 said:
Was just stating what’s the point in having a set piece coach. I don’t see us try any new routines. Half the time our set piece takers can’t beat the first man
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Sometimes you have to pretend to be shit at them for a bit so that the opponent lets their guard down.
 
Sly said:
He survived the chop because we were a bit shite on that regard under Amorim. Perhaps his staff needed new blood.

On another issue, it took us almost 4 years to score from a direct freekick.
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Was that Bruno? Seem to recall he was a set piece monster.
 
Samid said:
Was that Bruno? Seem to recall he was a set piece monster.
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Nah, it was Pedro Porro in December 2020. Took us almost 4 years. Gyokeres scored a freekick last month.
 
Bruno Fernandes has scored one goal from a free kick in the Premier League since he came to United. One
 
Samid said:
Was that Bruno? Seem to recall he was a set piece monster.
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Alex Telles was also a set piece monster. Cant recall him scoring or assisting half as much for us like he did at Porto
 
DJ_21 said:
Alex Telles was also a set piece monster. Cant recall him scoring or assisting half as much for us like he did at Porto
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Bruno Fernandes has never been a set piece "monster". He's scored 10 in his entire club career, and 1 for us. That's not "monster" level for a 30 year old player.

Alex Telles is also not a free kick "monster", and even less so than Bruno. Up until 2022, he had 3 free kick goals in his career. He's scored a couple since then.
He has scored quite a few penalty kicks though, if you want to count that. You technically could, although you were definitely referring to free kicks.
 
I still find it infuriating that our plan for all corners to is for everyone to attack the first ball and leave about two people on the edge of the box. It's fecking batshit crazy and super dumb.

Anytime the opposition win the first ball, it's always a matter of 50/50 of whether we will get counter attacked.

How about secondary (zonal) runs and more than 2-3 players on the edge of the box so we can win 2nd/3rd balls or god forbid try something other than launching it first time?

Unbelievable how bad and naive our approach is.
 
ifightdragons said:
Bruno Fernandes has never been a set piece "monster". He's scored 10 in his entire club career, and 1 for us. That's not "monster" level for a 30 year old player.

Alex Telles is also not a free kick "monster", and even less so than Bruno. Up until 2022, he had 3 free kick goals in his career. He's scored a couple since then.
He has scored quite a few penalty kicks though, if you want to count that. You technically could, although you were definitely referring to free kicks.
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I was also referring to corners.
 
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