Stats usually offer zero context and if you could extrapolate football down to stats, then a computer would be able to manage a team.
André Onana | signed for United | On a flight to NYC
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Henderson wasn't even a downgrade on De Gea when he took his spot a couple of years ago. Onana will need time to adapt but he doesn't need to live up to the heights of De Gea. The latter himself hasn't been living up to them for years.
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Yet again you are missing the point that the opinions are being formed by watching the matches themselves, not just by looking at stats. Also, would you like to explain why the stats tell us that De Gea's shot-stopping was brilliant in 17/18 and in the first half of 21/22, the exact times that everyone agrees he was fantastic? Is it just a coincidence that the stats showed the truth then, but then they've just happened to be wrong during the other periods that his critics have been saying he's been average?
There's a reason that over the last decade in particular data science has become an increasingly vital aspect of all football teams. Obviously a higher level of stats than what us general public have access to, but even the stats that we have access to can show important trends if used correctly.
I'd say Henderson was fine, his base level was close to the base level of De Gea - but he didn't have those moments of godly saves that De Gea is capable of. Those have saved us a lot of points over the years.
Henderson's time in goal was the only time in the last five years that we've averaged less than a goal per game conceded.
He also had quite a few of those what the hell are you doing moments. The one that sticks out is that time he got lost and didn’t know where his goals were so left them wide open for someone to score from the right wing was it?
Also interesting how some seem to forget how many times he puts himself and the defence under pressure and how many times his actions led to goals against.
It goes both ways.
But the context from the stats are missing. This is why XG is a sham because it doesn’t use enough variables. It’s actually a very very poor and flawed system. If used for extremely basic measurement of things then use it as a rough guide but in the end you’d be better going off of what you see as you are capable of making calculations with far more variable to decide if that was an easy chance he should have saved or a difficult one he had no real chance of making.
Who was the opposition? It's a nice stat, but if we only played like two out of the top 4-7 teams in that time, it's a bit misleading.
true enough His bad footwork has been a source of frustration lately, I will admit.
Damn i noticed it in the City game but even Liverpool stopped trying to press this guy when he was at Ajax, that says everything tbh, even if he isn't the best shot stopper the improvement elsewhere should be huge.
It'll be done by this time next week, pretty much everything points to that.
I wanted Neuer back then when he was still at Schalke. He made a lot of good saves against United in the Champions League. Don't when know he started becoming more of a risk taker by playing from the back. And yeah, I didn't show that video to show if Onana is a bad risk taker, it's simply to show we'd be seeing a huge difference as we've never had a GK like him before. But I'm on board since Ten Hag wants him and has previously worked with him.
Has Laurie lost a contact in the club or something?
Feel like Whitwell plays it safe with his reporting these days, and the Italians are very over the top and say a LOT.
British press in general with us are literally always glass half empty. Does my head in.
Another vid that showcases his goalkeeping style. I can see OT cheering for him when he's in the middle of the pitch
I dont like reading his stuff as much because hel only peddle the narrative the club wants him to put out.
So if they want to use a narrative that helps their negotiation hel write it. United interest in caceido, or this new one where we are prepared to delay (when inter likely want to get a move on).
They’re saying the same thing just in different ways.
It feels like he’s always talking about stories that’s already broken and even tends to be slightly off with them as well.
It’s a very Miguel Delaney tactic, especially when he said Onana wasn’t even on due to this ffp budget made up in his own head. Hard to take him seriously with Onana when he’s already shown he hasnt got the inside track.
It’s not though. Italian press and Romano just reported that United are about to send in the final offer that’ll be accepted compared to Laurie saying many days of negotiations are ahead and Inter have to lower their evaluation in top of that.
It’s a slight difference but it’s a major one in terms of where negotiations are at. Laurie is just a step behind with every story this summer.
I read Laurie's tweet as a fairly vague report. Maybe he is just being cautious with his info but it reads like he is guessing.
Another vid that showcases his goalkeeping style. I can see OT cheering for him when he's in the middle of the pitch
His technique and passing ability is very impressive, but I hope he has learnt to NOT do that too much.
Over the season Henderson played Man City twice, Liverpool twice, Spurs once, AC Milan twice, West Ham three times when they were having their great season and between 4th-7th in the league, Leicester once when they were likewise having a great season and finishing 5th, Real Sociedad twice. In other words, he had more than enough good opposition. Overall he conceded 22 goals in 26 matches.
18/19: De Gea conceded 1.34 goals per game
19/20: De Gea conceded 1.02 goals per game
20/21: De Gea conceded 1.19 goals per game / Henderson conceded 0.85 goals per game
21/22: De Gea conceded 1.43 goals per game
22/23: De Gea conceded 1.04 goals per game
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Best thing is he seems like a guy who even when inevitable howlers will come and media will rip he, he is confident enough to not give a feck and continue progressing
OK, that is quite impressive, I will admit.
I think regardless of where you sit on the DDG debate, we should all be excited to see a genuine change in the way United play football. I'm fully expecting heart in mouth moments and the occassional clanger from Onana. But on the whole it should allow true build up from the back, higher defensive line and faster transition into attack. This is exactly how ETH wants to play and I can't wait to see the results.
I remember Henderson was playing really well for us until that dreaded Liverpool game where he made a couple of mistakes. People seemed to have made up their minds because of that. He was fine for us.
Na, not for me. He’s just too small and rarely makes a save. Even this season balls were flying past him that you’d hope any sort of top keeper would save
I used to be skeptical about data in football. Used to think it was for latte drinking anoraks who support managers rather than teams.
I was wrong. I've looked a lot more at how data are used in football to help make decisions rather than be the decision and I can completely see the value of it.
Recently had a row with a fellow united fan who argued de Gea is still the man for us and his entire argument was 'most clean sheets ever....'
Tried pointing out that clean sheets are a team stat and by most other metrics de Gea is very low compared to his peers.
Waste of time, but fun times
I was wrong. I've looked a lot more at how data are used in football to help make decisions rather than be the decision and I can completely see the value of it.
Recently had a row with a fellow united fan who argued de Gea is still the man for us and his entire argument was 'most clean sheets ever....'
Tried pointing out that clean sheets are a team stat and by most other metrics de Gea is very low compared to his peers.
Waste of time, but fun times
Another vid that showcases his goalkeeping style. I can see OT cheering for him when he's in the middle of the pitch
It's like he really always wanted to be an outfield player!
I updated the other post with full stats, but will repeat them here since you've already responded.
18/19: De Gea conceded 1.34 goals per game
19/20: De Gea conceded 1.02 goals per game
20/21: De Gea conceded 1.19 goals per game / Henderson conceded 0.85 goals per game
21/22: De Gea conceded 1.43 goals per game
22/23: De Gea conceded 1.04 goals per game
Note this isn't me saying that Henderson should be our #1. Just that even a keeper who is nothing but 'decent' at most aspects improved our defence (it was noticeable our defence as a whole looked more solid than it did in the years surrounding that period) more than De Gea behind them refusing to sweep, claim crosses, control his box and whose shot-stopping had declined to average levels.
The lack of proper goodbye isn't an issue. Few players get that. The way it was handled with the contract offered and then rescinded is a bigger issue.
But obviously, while ugly, it isn't that big of a deal.
How tall is this fella
6'3
It’s about 190cm
Very tall indeed
Exactly. You watch random clips of different players and it’s more likely than not that you see them scoring past De Gea, with a De Gea mistake (see Mount’s FA Cup semi final goal against us). He’s simply sadly lost it.
Another vid that showcases his goalkeeping style. I can see OT cheering for him when he's in the middle of the pitch
Brilliant! Only seen him in the CL final and was more taken by his mental strength.
This is a whole new ball game
Ah wasn’t sure. Found varying results.
In addition to becoming an extra man at the back, a big man down the middle might help, with the runners from midfield for knockdowns. Will help us vary our game more.
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