André Onana | signed for United | On a flight to NYC

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I do think it's hard to overestimate how significant this signing is. Not necessarily because of who it is but what he offers.

I don't think a progressive ball playing keeper directly relates to an increase in chance creation from Day 1, but it completely changes our ability to control matches which is something ETH has surely been itching to do since he arrived. Due to certain technical limitations with the keepers at his disposal until this point it's just not been possible to the point that we've had to play in a way to make up for this.

Genuinely thrilled about this one and can't wait to see where we are 6 months down the line.
 
50+5 is alright if the 5 is some bullshit add-ons payable much later. It's euros too right? So that's £43m up front.
 
De Gea is not press resistant at all. You know you get the ball back if you press him.
This has been a big reason why we fail to control games.

With Onana we go from one of the worst at ball playing to one of the best.
No more hoof and pray. I don't think people appreciate just how much this change will change the way we play.
Exciting times.
 
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ROFLUTION said:
Goalkeeping wise (not with his feet) how does Onana compare to Raya?
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from my research, they both play in goal, but where they differ is that it’s for different teams. they both enjoy taking goal kicks with one of their two feet and when it comes to penalties, their preference is to save them, if that’s at all possible. they both have hands, but they wear gloves from different manufacturers (probably.) if we were to purchase either, ten hag would most likely place them in goal, rather than have them occupy one of our outfield positions.
 
rimaldo said:
from my research, they both play in goal, but where they differ is that it’s for different teams. they both enjoy taking goal kicks with one of their two feet and when it comes to penalties, their preference is to save them, if that’s at all possible. they both have hands, but they wear gloves from different manufacturers (probably.) if we were to purchase either, ten hag would most likely place them in goal, rather than have them occupy one of our outfield positions.
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:lol::lol:
 
rimaldo said:
from my research, they both play in goal, but where they differ is that it’s for different teams. they both enjoy taking goal kicks with one of their two feet and when it comes to penalties, their preference is to save them, if that’s at all possible. they both have hands, but they wear gloves from different manufacturers (probably.) if we were to purchase either, ten hag would most likely place them in goal, rather than have them occupy one of our outfield positions.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
rimaldo said:
where do i sign up as a twitter itk?
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You need a blue tick first, a blue tick just means that Elon blew a load in you or at you or on you. Whatever his preference is, you get no say in the matter.

Then you have to go down on the tea lady to get all the juicy info from your chosen club.
 
rimaldo said:
from my research, they both play in goal, but where they differ is that it’s for different teams. they both enjoy taking goal kicks with one of their two feet and when it comes to penalties, their preference is to save them, if that’s at all possible. they both have hands, but they wear gloves from different manufacturers (probably.) if we were to purchase either, ten hag would most likely place them in goal, rather than have them occupy one of our outfield positions.
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol:
 
So a defence of:

Onana
Dalot Varane Martinez Shaw

Technically looks very good
 
lex talionis said:
I appreciate the sincere reply. Better passing out of the back is inherently a good thing but there's really no correlation between better passing out of the back and good chance creation, but it certainly doesn't hurt. And there is absolutely is no correlation between better passing out of the back and good chance conversion.

Where we fell apart this year -- apart from the Brentford, City and Liverpool debacles 17 goals conceded in those three matches, but while we're on the subject: 27 goals conceded in the other 35 PL matches, which is more than decent -- was our finishing. We were god fukking awful with our finishing outside of Rashford. In the few games Martial was physically able to play, his finishing was awful; Sancho could only manage 6 goals; Antony only 4 goals. Let's forget about Martial: Sancho and Antony were in no way starved for service because we could never move the ball out of our own final third. They were just horrifying on goal. How many times did we see Antony shape for his left foot over and over and refuse to use his right foot? Too many. None of that had anything to do with De Gea and if neither Sancho or Antony pull themselves together there's nothing Onana's improved passing out of the back can do about that.

Let's take a match that probably reflects the general frustration we endured this season: Palace 1, United 1 on January 18. The official xg was 0.5 for Palace, 2.1 for United. United had 60% possession. United had a passing accuracy of 81%. United had 15 shots on goal, 4 on target. I can't find any heat maps for the game, but I remember it well enough to know that we dominated possession, created more good chances, had no particular problems moving the ball out of the back, and that we "should have" won the game. But we lost the game on a stoppage time free kick by Michael Olise, which I would argue could not have been stopped by Onana, or even Obama.

It's actually worth checking out again one of the top free kicks of this last season:



A reasonable response to the goal by Olise is that no one is expecting Onana to save every shot, certainly not a free kick that may go down as the top free kick of last season and probably the greatest goal Olise will ever score in his professional career. No doubt about that. But we should never have been in that position in the first place, demanding that De Gea keep a clean sheet by saving an unsaveable shot on goal, lest failure to do meant dropped points. We were clinging to a 0-1 lead in a match where we dominated the opponent and should have them but failed to do so because of poor finishing, not an inability to pass the ball out of the back.

Most opponents in the PL this last season sat back on us, knowing we would crap out pants at the first sight on goal, which in fact happened all the fukking time. They would hit us on counters and take their chances on direct free kicks and corner kicks. Top teams like City and Arsenal took the game to us, pressing high and creating problems, and a keeper like Onana will help us beat presses, but we still have a weakness at RB that opponents can exploit (the few clubs which did press us invited the ball to the right side) and when Casemiro was out due to various suspensions we were incredibly vulnerable in midfield as well. And of course going Route One to Antony and Sancho is pretty useful (EDIT: useless) as Antony is easily defended in breakaway situations and Sancho for whatever reason is useless in 1v1 situations. I trust Rashford and Garnacho with outstanding Route One balls, but I really hope we're not bringing in Onana for the purpose of becoming a Route One club. Presumably not, so it's all about improving our buildup play and if that's the case then we really need to have a conversation about the weakest link on the back line: right fullback. And, we're only one muscle injury away from having to resort to Maguire or Lindelof, not exactly exemplars of buildup play. And we need cover for Casemiro. And we need to do something about Sancho and Antony, who significantly underperformed last season against the most modest of expectations. And we need to bring in a striker who is ready right now for the PL, not 2-3 years from now.
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Lengthy! (That's what she said).
You make some interesting points. I remember that Palace game very well. It was depressing. Not just the Olise cracker, but also the booking Casemiro got which meant he would miss the gunners match. That booking was the main turning point in the match. You could literally see the players heads drop as the ref flashed the card. He also missed a chance from a yard out, at the death to rescue the points, which just added insult to injury.

While I agree that we're wasteful in that match, I don't think that game was representative of most of our struggles last year.
I think our struggles were a mix of the following:
1) Struggle for control
2) Struggle to create good quality chances
3) Taking way too many low percentage shots
4) Struggle to convert chances created.

I agree that Onana doesn't fix all these. No single player does. Not even Harry Kane. It's about incremental adjustments all throughout the system. Onana and Mount will help us gain better control and sustain pressure. This will make it easier for the players to probe rather than take desperate, low percentage shots. The team will do some more work in preason and will be more used to the system after a year of experience. Lastly, we'll bring in a striker who can help with chance conversion. I'm not as down on our right back options either I believe between those two, we'll be okay.
 
Irwin99 said:
So a defence of:

Onana
Dalot Varane Martinez Shaw

Technically looks very good
Click to expand...
I'll take this. I don't care how much better defensively folks think AWB is compared to Dalot but I simply want to see us field a defense that is comfortable with the ball. Watching Onana videos, he needs to have willing defenders and midfielders to get the ball, which mean they create opening for him instead of hiding. So in my eyes we prioritize ball playing abilities over any perceived defensive superiority from some players which is even debatable between AWB and Dalot.

It'll almost be pointless to get rid of DeGea due to his lack of ball playing skill which affect our build up play and ability to retain the ball, then stick with AWB in defense who will cause similar issues to DeGea when it comes to building up from the back and the ability to control games.
 
Inter really do need that €5million don't they?

Maybe we can crowdfund if United are taking too long coming up with that.
 
Walter Sobchak said:
I do think it's hard to overestimate how significant this signing is. Not necessarily because of who it is but what he offers.

I don't think a progressive ball playing keeper directly relates to an increase in chance creation from Day 1, but it completely changes our ability to control matches which is something ETH has surely been itching to do since he arrived. Due to certain technical limitations with the keepers at his disposal until this point it's just not been possible to the point that we've had to play in a way to make up for this.

Genuinely thrilled about this one and can't wait to see where we are 6 months down the line.
Click to expand...
Yes, just remind ourselves those away games. Almost every away game, the host pressed us hard and effectively! I really don’t like watching our away games live.
 
rimaldo said:
from my research, they both play in goal, but where they differ is that it’s for different teams. they both enjoy taking goal kicks with one of their two feet and when it comes to penalties, their preference is to save them, if that’s at all possible. they both have hands, but they wear gloves from different manufacturers (probably.) if we were to purchase either, ten hag would most likely place them in goal, rather than have them occupy one of our outfield positions.
Click to expand...
Probably more informative than any of our scout reports
 
Santoryo said:
I'll take this. I don't care how much better defensively folks think AWB is compared to Dalot but I simply want to see us field a defense that is comfortable with the ball. Watching Onana videos, he needs to have willing defenders and midfielders to get the ball, which mean they create opening for him instead of hiding. So in my eyes we prioritize ball playing abilities over any perceived defensive superiority from some players which is even debatable between AWB and Dalot.

It'll almost be pointless to get rid of DeGea due to his lack of ball playing skill which affect our build up play and ability to retain the ball, then stick with AWB in defense who will cause similar issues to DeGea when it comes to building up from the back and the ability to control games.
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Inter’s rb was often Damien. They did ok. Just saying.
 
Hope the deal gets done. One of the most exciting transfers for United.
 
SirScholes said:
There is a thread asking how Barthez would be seen in this current era of goalkeeping
We are about to find out


main worry is something like last season happens and we lose varane + martinez so we see lindeloff + maguire and onana. That build up play from the back would be god awful
hopefully maguire gets sold but I have a feeling hes going to stick around
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Maybe, Maguire becomes Superman with Onana behind.
 
city-puma said:
Inter’s rb was often Damien. They did ok. Just saying.
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Damien is infinitely better than AWB on the ball. If anything this just proves my point. Damien wasn't that good a defender(at least here at United. Haven't watched him at Inter or anywhere else) but the fact he's supposedly done well at Inter and can play with Onana means Dalot can also work just fine with him since he's also decent on the ball.
 
Santoryo said:
Damien is infinitely better than AWB on the ball
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Maybe you forgot how shit he was, he thought ball was a bomb and was kicking towards row z in the stands as soon as he got it.

AWB has awkward style but he is much better on the ball than Darmian, it's not even close. He is better than Darmian at everything except heading the ball.
 
roonster09 said:
Maybe you forgot how shit he was, he thought ball was a bomb and was kicking towards row z in the stands as soon as he got it.

AWB has awkward style but he is much better on the ball than Darmian, it's not even close. He is better than Darmian at everything except heading the ball.
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That’s how I remember it too, Darmian looked petrified every time he was on the ball. AWB is actually pretty press resistant, with decent footwork.
 
OL29 said:
That’s how I remember it too, Darmian looked petrified every time he was on the ball. AWB is actually pretty press resistant, with decent footwork.
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Exactly, he was petrified when he was on the ball and looked exhausted to keep up with the pace of the game when defending.
 
BarryWinks said:
Inter really do need that €5million don't they?
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My Inter mate said their finance is very very bad despite reaching a CL final last season they basically have no cash. They took Sanchez, Lukaku for us so I'd be happy to pay that €5m for the friendship and as a thank you gestion :D
 
rimaldo said:
from my research, they both play in goal, but where they differ is that it’s for different teams. they both enjoy taking goal kicks with one of their two feet and when it comes to penalties, their preference is to save them, if that’s at all possible. they both have hands, but they wear gloves from different manufacturers (probably.) if we were to purchase either, ten hag would most likely place them in goal, rather than have them occupy one of our outfield positions.
Click to expand...

yep yep yep checks out. this guy knows what he's talking about.
 
Walter Sobchak said:
I do think it's hard to overestimate how significant this signing is. Not necessarily because of who it is but what he offers.

I don't think a progressive ball playing keeper directly relates to an increase in chance creation from Day 1, but it completely changes our ability to control matches which is something ETH has surely been itching to do since he arrived. Due to certain technical limitations with the keepers at his disposal until this point it's just not been possible to the point that we've had to play in a way to make up for this.

Genuinely thrilled about this one and can't wait to see where we are 6 months down the line.
Click to expand...

I was quite shocked with what I saw from him in the Champions League final. I swear he dribbled thru two players up to the 18 yard line and smashed a perfect ball incisively into Barellas or some other Inter players feet. Feel like he cut thru a few times in fact. Definitely game changer
 
FrankWhite said:
Lengthy! (That's what she said).
You make some interesting points. I remember that Palace game very well. It was depressing. Not just the Olise cracker, but also the booking Casemiro got which meant he would miss the gunners match. That booking was the main turning point in the match. You could literally see the players heads drop as the ref flashed the card. He also missed a chance from a yard out, at the death to rescue the points, which just added insult to injury.

While I agree that we're wasteful in that match, I don't think that game was representative of most of our struggles last year.
I think our struggles were a mix of the following:
1) Struggle for control
2) Struggle to create good quality chances
3) Taking way too many low percentage shots
4) Struggle to convert chances created.

I agree that Onana doesn't fix all these. No single player does. Not even Harry Kane. It's about incremental adjustments all throughout the system. Onana and Mount will help us gain better control and sustain pressure. This will make it easier for the players to probe rather than take desperate, low percentage shots. The team will do some more work in preason and will be more used to the system after a year of experience. Lastly, we'll bring in a striker who can help with chance conversion. I'm not as down on our right back options either I believe between those two, we'll be okay.
Click to expand...

Alcohol has entered my bloodstream so all caveats hereby apply, but I would say as a general statement that our defense was our strength, our midfield was respectable, but that our attack was by far our weakness. Generally speaking, keepers have a much less substantial impact on goals scored than on goals conceded. I’m struggling to find any casual relationship between De Gea’s ability to pick out the right pass to his fullback and the inability of our forwards to convert on great chances.

Recall the chance Sancho had against Fulham that led to the pk that led to Mitrovic losing his mind. Sancho should have scored on that glorious chance. That he didn’t in no way can be connected back to De Gea. We went on match after match with ridiculous amounts of glorious chances wasted. You don’t expect to convert on all of them, but you don’t expect to see a team which spent 160m between two forwards, Sancho and Antony, be as surreally bad on goal as they were. As for Martial, I really hope no one here is blaming De Gea for how absurdly poor Martial has been the last two seasons.

Bring in Onana, but don’t expect his brilliant passes to his fullbacks to turn Martial, Sancho and Antony into clinical finishers.
 
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