I don't think we can put it down to that a hundred percent. Maybe due to his natural build he can't reach Ronaldo levels of fitness but I think every football can be bloody fit if they want to. Then again, he does tend to get injured very often so I can understand him not stretching himself. To be honest, it might not be a bad idea for him to try and reinvent himself as an attacking midfielder all over again. I think it helped van Persie in recent years. Anderson as a footballer in terms of engine looks an attacking midfielder coming alive when the ball comes forward rather a central midfielder who has to hustle and bustle all game. Of course he'll need to work on his final ball/shot, but I think there's a case for him doing that,maybe at a smaller club that affords him that freedom.
Anderson | 2013/14 Performances (on loan at Fiorentina)
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As long as mascots can also play football, sure.
I always laugh at this argument. The idea of keeping a professional player at one of the biggest football clubs in the world, earning tens of thousands of pounds every week, because he's a lovable character and fun in the dressing room, is absolutely mental.
If it was the ONLY reason, it would be mental. But the first part of Trigg's post is important, the second part is just an added bonus, and I don't think we should underestimate the necessity to have good team spirit and morale.
Maybe this is his year? I actually think that he looks fitter than normal, and if he can stay injury free then you never no I suppose. I've always believed he would be great for us and fought his corner during his time here at United. But tbh I'm not sure how many more chances a guy can have. If he hasn't succeeded now, will he ever?
That is where I'm at. I know that if he could stay injury free and get a run in the team, then we would most prob see the real deal. But the fact is that it is just wishful thinking, as deep down we all know he won't.
most definitely given our lack of depth in midfield
yesterday was Anderson summed up for me.
Some good play early on
Nice passing and link up
Worked hard
Poor finishing
Good running
and his passing became poor in the last 10/15 minutes when he tired
Anderson really needs to work hard on his stamina and we will see better performances as a result
yesterday was Anderson summed up for me.
Some good play early on
Nice passing and link up
Worked hard
Poor finishing
Good running
and his passing became poor in the last 10/15 minutes when he tired
Anderson really needs to work hard on his stamina and we will see better performances as a result
I think the first port of call is to get the excess weight off before people start looking at unlikely genetic and or scientific excuses.
An apt phrase - if it looks like duck, and quacks like a duck, its usually a duck. I dont see why people go in for all of these weird and wonderful explanations. He's probably just a young lad who doesnt like hard fitness training or eating boring healthy food - like the vast majority of the population. Difference is he's got a career dependant on his fitness.
I personally cant believe that he's in the shape he clearly is. Not a glowing Indictment of the coaching staff or his discipline levels.
And I personally cannot believe that SAF and his team of trainers would have let an overweight player in the squad for so long, I refuse to believe that. Yes SAF isn't perfect but there are things at a certain level, he wouldn't have allowed.
This is him in his debut season
He's certainly not as fit as he was although calling him fat is a stretch
He's certainly not as fit as he was although calling him fat is a stretch
This is him in his debut season
He's certainly not as fit as he was although calling him fat is a stretch
And he still had those stamina issues even back then
He was such an exciting talent. Based on that I backed him for years. Still remember his performance ( along with nani's) against arsenal when we battered them 4-0. He looked like such a natural footballer.
He looked fantastic in his first season. People go on about Fergie changing his position from AM to CM but imo when he's fit he's a very very good CM as he showed that season. But that was 6 years ago
It was obviously tongue in cheek, not everything is serious on the internet.
You cleverly missed the part where I said he's a good squad player and offers us something different.
So what would they do with him? Sack him? They have no doubt been trying to get him fit - the quickest way to do it being getting him playing regular football.
Nobody knows whats going on behind the scenes, but the performances he's put in dont lie. People are so loathe to believe that its the players fault and that he isnt pulling his weight (no pun intended) but the evidence suggests otherwise. Bottom line is not all people are natural athletes, nor do all professionals live a "professional" lifestyle.
I know a little bit about losing weight and being fit, and it takes a lot of hard work - but getting your diet right is 80% of the battle. It's not hard to see how a young lad who has previously not had any issues and been able to eat what he wants and stay lean gets injured and puts on a few pounds - from there, unless you get wise and start knuckling down its easy to spiral - i.e. you cant get a run of games because you arent fit, but you cant get fit because you need a run of games. Its a vicious circle.
Bottom line, whatever has gone on, or why - his perfromances are not up to scratch, and it looks as if he isnt doing enough about it.
I think the overwhelming evidence is that he simply isn't fit. The fact that he never finishes 90 mins for us and always fades badly as a game goes on tells you this, if you for some reason refuse to acknowledge what your eyes tells you.
He doesn't have the stamina and he's too heavy. My opinion is that this is also the reason he's been injured so often. Someone are probably going to post some picture of him without his shirt on and say he looks ripped, but the simple truth is he is unfit and has been for years.
He doesn't have the stamina and he's too heavy. My opinion is that this is also the reason he's been injured so often. Someone are probably going to post some picture of him without his shirt on and say he looks ripped, but the simple truth is he is unfit and has been for years.
I like it when he has the ball at his feet and runs at people from central midfield, he can cause alot of problems especially if he can sort out his final ball
He looked fantastic in his first season. People go on about Fergie changing his position from AM to CM but imo when he's fit he's a very very good CM as he showed that season. But that was 6 years ago
"fantastic" was also based on the fact he was 19 and drafted into action when we had a lack of options. He did very well as cover and then beyond that. But a lot of the positivity was about the fact he was 19 years old and expectations of his performances around that
This is him in his debut season
He's certainly not as fit as he was although calling him fat is a stretch
I love this kit, probably as much a Ando loves a good cheeseburger.
Like Marseille when they realized that Gignac was overweight, they could have appointed a special trainer and have accommodated him a special training regime for him to lose all the unnecessary weight. If it had never came to that then it means SAF was fine with Anderson's weight. About what it takes to lose weight, I know that all too myself, being in a 30kg weight loss for 16 months, I'm not trying to sound like an arrogant but for a pro like Anderson, with all the highly trainer he has available at the club, would have lost the fat/weight/whatever if it were deemed necessary by him and the coach.
Besides when he started his career at United, he was slimmer but still had stamina issues and his weight isn't hindering as a footballer.
I play a bit of footy myself at a fairly decent regional level here in Norway. Before the season started I was sick of being a bit too heavy (not very overweight just 15-20 pounds too much for an ideal footballer's weight) and I decided to train well and loose the extra weight. I didn't eat any candy in all of january, and tried my best to eat sensible food. I trained on average about 4 times a week, most of those quite intense sessions. I shedded 17 pounds in a month.
I know I'm a quite extreme case in the sense that I gain and loose weight very easily, but I just cannot understand how someone like Anderson can't manage to shed some weight with the resources he's got at his disposal, as well as the amount of training he puts in. He trains every day, hard. His diet has to be a really, really shite one.
I know I'm a quite extreme case in the sense that I gain and loose weight very easily, but I just cannot understand how someone like Anderson can't manage to shed some weight with the resources he's got at his disposal, as well as the amount of training he puts in. He trains every day, hard. His diet has to be a really, really shite one.
I have to agree with your sentiments.
Anderon's job is a professional footballer, he has a responsibility to remain on a strict diet and train according to his schedule. I think simply his work ethic and dedication is simply not 100%. Some may argue that Fergie would have never allowed this to be the case and so on, but you have to remember Fergie is not a God and cannot control absolutely everything.
The fact that Anderson still was never first choice, even when fit, shows Fergie didn't entirely trust him in midfield. For Fergie, Anderson was a wonderful midfield option for his squad, who wasn't expected to play 90 mins every week and offered something different to the other CMs. That could be one of the reasons why he remained at the club. Plus I don't think football in real life is like FM, where you can easily ship out players you do not want. Anderson was signed for a lot of money as a 18 year old, and even now would provide decent resale value. I think Fergie was never in a hurry to sell him.
Given our lack of depth in CM, for now he should stay and provides a good option in midfield. But in no way should we be relying on him as a first choice (or even joint first choice with Cleverley alongside Carrick) given his injury history, and fitness issues.
If he isn't playing enough, he'd never get match fit.
So what are you suggesting then? Because he clearly isn't fit - his lack of games and inability to get through a full match are not imagined.
No trainer or dietician can work miracles. It's relative easy to get fitter if you want to do it. The club can't watch players 24/7 a d grown men can do what they like.
I see no bidders pounding at the door for Ando, so let's keep him on the squad until we either find a buyer or his contract runs out. He can still come off the bench in league play and start in Carling Cup matches, so he's not a complete waste of sperm.
Seriously, he's a decent squad man.
Seriously, he's a decent squad man.
If you had to pick a midfielder most like Anderson, playing football now somewhere in the world, who would that be?
Will be interesting to see the level he can reach if he has a full season, which he has not even managed from 6 years. Van Persie himself has only managed 3 injury free seasons in his 20's and you can see the leaps and bound he came on.
A trainer or dietician do make miracles but they're really helpful if used correctly. There has never been a slight pb with Anderson's weight, his fitness yes definitely. But if it was only a matter of losing fat for him to get some fitness and stamina then don't you think the club (who is filled with physios and highly competent) would have given some strong recommendation to shed some weight ?
I don't think the answer is that simple, I think it's a shame that his fitness aren't just good enough, at the same time Anderson may try to be less "explosive" in his game, less endless and times stupid runs with the ball and more passing. After all, we're talking about one of the best clubs in the world with the best physios around, a solution that simple would have been spotted by them ages ago.
Well the physios and management can't be that good if they've not spotted what is so obvious - that he doesn't try and he is seriously overweight.
There are plenty of players in football leagues around the world that get gassed after playing 60-70 minutes and it's not because they are undisciplined or don't try hard enough or that they are busy scoffing down pies. Look at players like Yaya Toure or Ozil - often are found tiring past the 60-70 minute mark. If everyone could get to the same fitness levels and all it took was a bit more work for some - we would never marvels at freaks of nature like Sir Ryan.
Ando isn't one that just is able to get out there and play 90 minutes without having had a good run of games but, he is able to get there. Unfortunately for most of his time here the injuries plus the squad rotation have not seen him get that run where he is able to get his stamina levels to finish 90 minutes strongly - well once I have. If you go back a few years to the period of games around the Wolfsburg Champion's League away where we played with wing backs - Anderson played quite a few games on the trot, finishing them and most of them strongly but, it ended with the Fulham game away where he finally seemed to run out of gas in that period.
Am glad he's been playing in so many games in pre-season - he seems to be getting a lot better stamina wise as the pre-season has progressed and really hope he stays injury free because I think he'll be quite an asset should he continue to be used as he has been under Moyes.
There are plenty of players in football leagues around the world that get gassed after playing 60-70 minutes and it's not because they are undisciplined or don't try hard enough or that they are busy scoffing down pies. Look at players like Yaya Toure or Ozil - often are found tiring past the 60-70 minute mark. If everyone could get to the same fitness levels and all it took was a bit more work for some - we would never marvels at freaks of nature like Sir Ryan.
Ando isn't one that just is able to get out there and play 90 minutes without having had a good run of games but, he is able to get there. Unfortunately for most of his time here the injuries plus the squad rotation have not seen him get that run where he is able to get his stamina levels to finish 90 minutes strongly - well once I have. If you go back a few years to the period of games around the Wolfsburg Champion's League away where we played with wing backs - Anderson played quite a few games on the trot, finishing them and most of them strongly but, it ended with the Fulham game away where he finally seemed to run out of gas in that period.
Am glad he's been playing in so many games in pre-season - he seems to be getting a lot better stamina wise as the pre-season has progressed and really hope he stays injury free because I think he'll be quite an asset should he continue to be used as he has been under Moyes.
You seem to be missing my point. It's a process I've been through at my own expense. I wasn't where I wanted to be - despite working out what I considered to be hard I didn't make the gains I wanted. I hired a trainer and he opened my eyes to the importance of eating right. I wasn't to bad before but changed what I was eating and things really kicked on.
Thing is, I saw others he worked with in my gym who made little to no gains - because they didn't have the discipline or inclination to give up eating what they wanted, and that's their choice.
My trainer told me one thing which actually becomes obvious the more you educate yourself. Some people are genetically better athletes, that's clear - but everyone can get fit and lean with the right diet and training. A lot of people like to think the cards are stacked against them but its simply not true.
I can't therefore accept anyone lucky enough to play professional sport not giving 110%.
I may missed your point but you also missed mine. Put it this way, if SAF has never asked Anderson to give the 110% you mention, why would the Brazilian feel like he'd need to do it ? I'm just trying to explain things from his possible POV, why would he give more than what SAF and co would ask and require from him ?
My point is that if SAF felt that Anderson wasn't as professional with his lifestyle as he could have been then he'd have done something about it, either by giving him some form of hairdryer or he'd have sold him.
It's been several years that according to you Anderson is has a weight pb, why wasn't this rectified before ? Do you think Anderson would have been allowed to stay at the club if SAF was truly disappointed with him from a physical POV ? I'm not having that.Losing weight for them pros would be a lot easier than for us common folks if there ever was a real need to lose some.
I agree with this entirely, specially the part about Ozil who is a really lean and slim player. Him running out of steam cannot be explained by his weight then, it's not that simple and as you said some players have just more stamina than others regardless of their weight.
Anderson does offer something different to our central midfield. He is the only one that can dribble and run with the ball with skill and power. Cleverley and Carrick don't offer this at all. A dribbling CM can be devastating. I recall Giggs destroying Chelsea a few times a couple seasons back. And look at Yaya Toure. I'm not saying Anderson is anywhere close to Yaya but being able to dribble with skill and power through the middle is a great weapon to have.
I always think Anderson should run at players more. It seems like whenever he does, he slices right through the oppositions' midfield easily. I do think fitness issues have stifled this ability that Anderson has. And I don't think it's simply because he is fat. I think it comes from injuries that hamper the amount and intensity of training.
If he's not out in this window, surely next season if he doesn't have a great season. He playing lots now so maybe we will finally see the Anderson that we all thought he'd be.
I always think Anderson should run at players more. It seems like whenever he does, he slices right through the oppositions' midfield easily. I do think fitness issues have stifled this ability that Anderson has. And I don't think it's simply because he is fat. I think it comes from injuries that hamper the amount and intensity of training.
If he's not out in this window, surely next season if he doesn't have a great season. He playing lots now so maybe we will finally see the Anderson that we all thought he'd be.
As proof of your point one just needs to look at the pics of Coleen in the Rooney thread -and I don't mean it in a disrespectful way in the very least but, Coleen doesn't seem to be naturally thin but, obviously with what she has at her disposal has got in shape quite quickly.
It makes no sense to me that Ando, and any of our players, would be able to get away with much as much as they are monitored and worked out. Even if he did go home and scoff down 10 pies a night - the next day he'd just get worked out that much harder to be within acceptable limits to the club - and being seriously overweight would not be within those limits.
There were pics of Ando during the US tour that were unflattering and people said look he is overweight/fat and a few days later there were pics of him without his shirt which blew that theory away. He doesn't have that skinny body frame like the likes of Cleverley, who also would get gassed after 60-70 minutes last season but, no one accuses Cleverley of being undisciplined. It's an unfortunate prejudice people have - he has a bigger body frame so he is undisciplined cake eating mofo that doesn't give 110%.
The arguments that well we can see it plainly with our eyes are also porous. You look at at 350lb lineman in the NFL - see him on the street and your first impression is woah typical fat American not realizing he is lightning quick and can probably out run you in dash. The only people have the real info on Ando have kept him at the club for 6 years - makes no sense if he has been undisciplined when it comes to staying in shape.
Thank you for writing exactly what I had in my mind but with much better words and sentences.
Contradicting yourself there - he shouldn't really be running at players more often if he is always knackered and having trouble finishing games.
I think the thread title needs to be changed. He'll stay. We're not in a position where we can sell him, we really do need the numbers. He's a good player. It's not the fitness issues that concern me, it's more about him coming back from injury looking out of depth, as though he's degraded into an average player who hides. First half of last season, he was decent. I thoroughly enjoyed his movement in the Reading game. He scores a great goal and then picks up an injury. Southampton (home) game onwards, he was average, but he offers something different, which is what I need to remember.
Your argument seems to be that if Fergie wasn't happy he would have sold him. It's clearly not that simple - a transfer relies on two parties as well as the selling club, a buying club and the player. In this case a player probably on £60k a week who's always injured and clearly unfit. It would Hardly be surprising nobody is willing to take on a player like that on that sort of money.
The club have a player under contract and will clearly try to get the best from him - doesn't mean they're happy with him. Infact, the most damning indictment comes from the manager - who even when he's fit hardly picks him.
So even if you were sitting 20m away from him ? Looking at his massive backside, his thighs really pushing each other, his tummy is visibly under the shirt. He was put on a special running exercise compare to the rest of the group. You would still prefer to believe that's no way this could be true. Watch the video that I posted, you can see the way he run.
Rio said after the Osaka match that he lost 3kg in that match due to the heat. It could very well be that Anderson lost 7,8 kg over the last 10 days. But I think the reason why he has not lived up to his potential lies with himself and how well he looks after his body. He doesn't strike me as the most committed and professional player as well.
I was under the impression Anderson has had injury setback after injury setback.
That's not my argument exactly tbh, my point is that if his weight/fat levels were a real handicap for Anderson in terms of fitness then it would have been addressed, it's been 6 years by now. It's a wrong solution for a very real pb.
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