He has but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't keeping himself as fit as possible whenever he's not playing.
Anderson | 2013/14 Performances (on loan at Fiorentina)
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He has but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't keeping himself as fit as possible whenever he's not playing.
United would have allowed a consistently overweight player to remain in that state for six years. Yes, sounds plausible.
Exactly. He isn't overweight, it's 'just' his fitness which is the problem, and it is a big one. Hopefully playing so much time in those humid conditions as well as Moyes' training methods will help more with that, as well as some luck with injuries. Excellent posts from Shimo.
For a player of his calibre, he is not fit. For a normal guy, he's not too bad. But what kind of normal guy earns $60K a week playing for Man United.
Looks like Moyes really tries to get him into shape by letting him finish our tour matches.
Guess that means no new midfield signings. Ando in shape will be like a new signing anyway plus we've got Sir Ryan, Phil Jones, Fletcher and if push comes to shove we'll just re-unretire Scholesey!
Guess that means no new midfield signings. Ando in shape will be like a new signing anyway plus we've got Sir Ryan, Phil Jones, Fletcher and if push comes to shove we'll just re-unretire Scholesey!
Looks like Moyes really tries to get him into shape by letting him finish our tour matches.
Guess that means no new midfield signings. Ando in shape will be like a new signing anyway plus we've got Sir Ryan, Phil Jones, Fletcher and if push comes to shove we'll just re-unretire Scholesey!
Marjen ,you're going to drive me mad.
Martinez after him apparently:
http://www.sportsdirectnews.com/pre...-transfer-news-martinez-lines-up-anderson.php
http://www.sportsdirectnews.com/pre...-transfer-news-martinez-lines-up-anderson.php
He aims to reunite the brilliant midfield combo of Gibbo/Ando!
Looks like Moyes really tries to get him into shape by letting him finish our tour matches.
Guess that means no new midfield signings. Ando in shape will be like a new signing anyway plus we've got Sir Ryan, Phil Jones, Fletcher and if push comes to shove we'll just re-unretire Scholesey!
If we look on situation, so far, it certainly looks that way.
Flatters to deceive too often for too long now. He can't shoot either. He's a backup who should be sold if we can get decent money for him (5-8m). We have youngsters coming through who should be given the chance over Anderson.
I don't think United have though.
Januzaj for a start. Cleverley should be in the team ahead of him too, probably generally is, but should start more now.
Our central midfielder are Carrick, Cleverley, Januzaj, Kagawa and hopefully Fletcher recovers. I think we're ok there and can do without Anderson.
He's had enough time and never shown enough.
Our central midfielder are Carrick, Cleverley, Januzaj, Kagawa and hopefully Fletcher recovers. I think we're ok there and can do without Anderson.
He's had enough time and never shown enough.
I think you're clutching at straws mate, Fletcher is unlikely to feature & even if he did get fit again Anderson would certainly be the better option even if he can only play for 60-70 mins.
Anderson is not holding up Cleverley. Anderson could not get a run in the side even after Cleverley was dropped after the F.A cup tie with Chelsea at home. Januzaj and Kagawa are AM not CM. Fletcher is more a direct replacement for Carrick if/when fit, and will miss the whole of pre-season. Unless United sign at least 2 midfielders getting rid of Anderson would leave United light in the CM positions.
It's hardly like for like with Anderson and Januzaj. I wouldn't put it past someone of Januzaj's skillset to be able to play deeper in central midfield, but he's way, way off being able to fill in there at the moment alongside one other person. It's also a waste of his attributes in my opinion. It's the same with Kagawa, so you're left then with Carrick, Cleverley and maybe Fletcher from that list.
Hopefully he goes. About time.
There's no need for Ando to be fit enough to go a full 90 as he'll rarely start, at least against a quality opponent. He's a decent squad man who can come in around the 60th minute against a weak opponent and help kill things off.
That said, he is a massive disappointment. With the benefit of hindsight the 17m or whatever we spent for him was cash tossed into the furnace but here we are and we've got a footballer who's actually not horrible. He's just not good enough to start for United on a regular basis, but he's good enough to deal with Stoke and Sunderland in the last few minutes of a match that has long been decided.
And he's lovable!
That said, he is a massive disappointment. With the benefit of hindsight the 17m or whatever we spent for him was cash tossed into the furnace but here we are and we've got a footballer who's actually not horrible. He's just not good enough to start for United on a regular basis, but he's good enough to deal with Stoke and Sunderland in the last few minutes of a match that has long been decided.
And he's lovable!
Why all this talk of Ando being unfit and possibly uncapable of addressing his fitness issues when nobody is mentioning Cleverley. He fades at least as badly after 60 minutes, but he looks properly fit - so maybe he is the one not capable of lasting the full 90?
Cina: don't you see that Ando offers something different? He has bags of pace and can go past any midfielder in the league. Cleverley cannot do that, no chance; Carrick somehow manages to go past a couple of players, but he isn't that kind of player.
Cina: don't you see that Ando offers something different? He has bags of pace and can go past any midfielder in the league. Cleverley cannot do that, no chance; Carrick somehow manages to go past a couple of players, but he isn't that kind of player.
Anderson definitely does offer something different but whats the point if we only see it a handful of times over a season. I like him as a character and think of he could stay fit he'd be a good option but there's been nothing to suggest he'll change. All this time at the club and physically little has changed, for the good anyway.
I'd rather we brought in some players who can actually bring something to the team every week. I suppose then it wouldn't matter if Ando stayed as we'd have competition in the middle but then I'd rather game time to a younger player trying to breakthrough in that case. I suppose given Moyes is meant to be quite fitness inclined it's worth seeing how he does with a new approach but really if we did get two midfielders in I wouldn't have a problem moving him on.
Every footballer offers their own unique traits that make them different, so yes, I guess he does offer something "different" to the team, it's just different isn't always a good thing. Like, personally I'm more than happy to stick to fannies instead of trying out the odd cock cause it's different.
Reading this a lot, but unfortunately there is no such player at the moment. Powell has a lot to prove yet and would actually be better with 2 midfielders in with him. Aside from him, Pearson is a couple of years off at least yet from being introduced to the first team fold, and that's assuming he continues to develop and doesn't stagnate. Our best shot in a while was with the last generation of Petrucci, Morrison, Pogba and Eikrem.
I'd still prefer than then continually giving Ando games when the majority of them are him trying to get his fitness again. Better to give it to a young player who might be able to use that time to learn/experience it rather than Ando who has pretty much stayed static in his development as he's usually trying to get back to fitness.
Plus having some actual midfielders who we could rely on to be around more games than not would allow us to bed in these youngsters. We could play a 3 in some games if we wanted, personally I think if the rest of the team is strong enough, against the right team Powell could play in a 2 anyway even if he's suited to a 3. Also having someone else who can come in and be the senior midfielder when Carrick needs a rest would also allow us to bring in a young player as we could still give them that protection. None of the other players have really been in a position to do that. Ando as I said is usually trying to get fit/sharpness so can't really look after someone, Clev is still developing in his own right and not ready to be the senior partner, Scholes/Giggs have needed protection of their own.
So I think getting in say 2 midfielders, giving us Carrick, Clev and those two as our main options, Giggs, maybe Fletcher/Jones as backup and then letting a younger player like powell get some game time would be more preferential than having Ando as well. Plus tbh if we did sign two midfielders I think Ando might think about going anyway for his own sake.
If we did only bring in one then I suppose it might be worth seeing how Ando does under Moyes for the season but like I said if we bring through 2, then I'd rather a younger player/players be given the game time we might have given Ando.
I don't prefer to believe he is not the most committed, I actually wholeheartedly agree that he is not the most committed. In my opinion there are very few players that are committed as many people believe as a professional athlete they should be. There are people that are like Ronaldo who probably spend hour after hour working on improving and for every one of them there are probably 100 pros that are no where close. From the sidelines we want to say they being paid a whole lot that they should be 110% dedicated but, reality is in every sport there are are only a select few that actually live up to that expectation.
I don't doubt Anderson is not one of those that obsess about improving but, I also very much believe it is not feasible for him to be as not dedicated as people make him out to be and to have been at the club as long as he has been, especially under Ferguson.
As to what you saw in front of your eyes - there is a chance what you say you saw is reality but, then again is there a chance - based on your last sentence of how you view Anderson's commitment - that you saw what you wanted to see. It's why eye witness statements can be so conflicting because everyone brings their baggage to what they see. Heck, this board is a great example of it - look at how some people rate one player based on what they've seen and the others seeing the same game absolutely don't.
You also say that he was on a special running exercise - was your first instinct, he is made to do that because he is a fat uncommitted player? Did you even think it's a possibility that due to his injuries they have him on a special program to help avoid them or that perhaps because he does fall into the category of people that it is harder to get more stamina that they him running a different set of exercises?
If we can't get anything more than 5-7m for him, I see no reason for selling him. As you say, he does offer something different. When we struggle to penetrate defenses, he has an uncanny ability to just run past a couple of players and thus create space. Cleverley fades just as badly as Ando does; in fact, I can't remember the last time I saw Cleverley finish a game well where he started the match. In that respect they are quite similar, but because Cleverley looks fitter, he seems to get away with it more.
I agree that we should strengthen the midfield, but I don't see anyone yet who can step up and be a regular starter and/or back-up for the first team. Therefore, I see little reason in selling him THIS season.
You really don't like Ando, do you? Do you disagree that when firing on all cylinders at his very best, Ando doesn't offer us exactly what we need, an explosive CM who can dribble past players? It's not exactly about trying the odd cock is it, it's about realising that the woman you're shagging may not be a bloody super model, but's she's not too shabby either; problem is, she's only gagging for it every other month.
I believe this analogy has now been taken as far as it can be.
I think that depends on how many midfielders we sign personally. If we sign two midfielders, assuming that our curse doesn't continue and they actually stay fit I'd move Ando on. With actual players who should be fit most weeks I can't see him getting as much game time anyway so don't see how he'd increase in value. As I said if we sign one than fair enough but if we get two I think we should consider moving him on and also I think it would be good for him as well.
Like I said I agree he gives us something different but the problem is we see it so rarely. Also it's probably true that those performances stand out more because generally our midfielders, Carrick aside haven't been great. If we signed at least one quality player we might not really need Ando's power so much. Plus no reason we couldn't bring in someone with that same power but who will actually be able to show it on a regular basis.
As for comparison with Clev, tbh I'm not Clevs biggest fan, I think he can become a good player but I have my doubts if he'll become a big player for us but he's stayed fit, he needs to work on his fitness no doubt but tbf this was his first real season of regular football at the highest level, well second if you include Wigan, but still a lot less than Ando, so think he can be given more time to improve on that.
It's not a dislike of Ando or anything, I think if he could stay fit and refine his game he would be a better player than say Clev, but I just can't see how that will happen as there's been nothing to suggest he can get over his fitness issues, and the problem is, he's still got a fair bit of refining to do, as it is thats a problem as he doesn't play enough games now and with two new midfielders to properly compete for the middle, rather than a lot of makeshift midfielders it will be even harder for him to get time. I suppose if we did sign two, maybe we could get a loan for him, see if a change of scenery might help him, but he'd probably prefer to just move on in that case.
That's a very good post, mate! I think I agree to everything you say. If we get two midfielders, there is little point in keeping him - we have the numbers. If we only get one, let's say a Fabregas, Modric or whatever, then I too think we should keep him as a squad player. Agree 100% on Cleverley btw - I think he can be decent, even good, but not much more than that.
Is Fabregas the answer though? People have been moaning about our midfield lacking pace and being overrun. Adding a Carrick-pace player will probably not solve that. I remember those few games where Ando and Cleverley played very well together (two seasons ago?) and we suddenly had bags of pace in our CM and we looked really dynamic, despite the defensive woes of course.
Not sure I agree that Ando only shone because of the dismal displays by our other midfielders. We had a terrific Scholes several of those seasons, but Ando's pace and power still amazed at that time with what was a great partnership in Scholes and Carrick, but as you say it didn't happen enough.
Cheers mate. I think the problem about being overrun isn't so much about pace but how far apart the players have tended to be. I don't think we've always adapted as best we can too teams that pack the middle, we've asked our wingers to stay too wide and then also usually had Rooney quite high up, he doesn't play as floating as a proper a/m. So you end up with our midfielders being really far apart from the wingers and attackers, which means the only out balls they have are either side ways, backwards or a risky pass under pressure wide/long. This allows us to get pressed even more. Add to that midfielders who either don't have the physicality for that sort of game i.e. Scholes, or lack the discipline/knowledge of that role, clev, ando and giggs and you have a problem.
Carrick often gets stick for not being able to compete but personally I think its more the system than anything. All the teams that deal with that pressure well are narrow teams, that means they have lots of players within a few yards who open up options for them. Our midfielders rarely have that option. I think we need to adapt our game a little when we come across that as much as getting in more able players.
I think if we did that and added Fabregas it would work really well against most teams. Against the best though I think we'd still need another which is why I think we need two midfielders, although clev/ando could do that role, not as well, but if they were disciplined they could act as a good go between for carrick and fabregas.
Yeah true Ando's style does stand out, although again even when Carrick and scholes were great, scholes was still quite withdrawn and with carrick generally sitting as well we lacked that physical thrust from the middle. I think a younger player like Fabregas, although he wouldn't do it with power, he would offer that movement forward. But like I said I agree it is a good asset to have but I just think we could maybe look to bring in someone else who can do that on a more regular basis.
Powell is positionally way off the standard required currently and playing him in a midfield two is asking for trouble. There is definite talent there but it's a similar situation with him as it was in the Pogba case, only that Pogba was significantly better technically and showed greater ability. It's also worth considering that Powell pretty much lost an entire half season last year and hasn't even played that much reserve football yet. In a season as important as this one, we should wait until Powell begins to consistently stand out at reserve level before considering the possibility of playing him in the first team. Playing him at the tip of a midfield three is something to consider perhaps, but again we'll have to wait and see how he returns. It's not clear yet just how much of a talent Powell is, in my opinion.
As for other players, Tunnicliffe is not good enough and will not be good enough in my opinion, Petrucci may well go out on loan (and there are serious doubts at this point as to whether he will fulfil his earlier potential anyway), and Pearson - the one I do think is in with a shot - doesn't need to be rushed considering he's only just being introduced to reserve team football.
Whilst I can sympathise with the general sentiment, Anderson still has a part to play so long as we don't sign anyone else, and possibly even if we do. He's not indispensable obviously, but he's a far, far wiser option than any of the youngsters and will be needed at times next year.
But I'm saying this in the context that we bring in two proper midfielders. I agree we definitely shouldn't sell without recruiting and if we only bring in one I'd hang on to him, but if we bring in two, I don't see the point in keeping him and I don't think it would be good for him either.
I think if we sign two central midfielders (cover/a replacement for Carrick and a technically gifted midfielder presumably), Moyes will have a job on trying to give enough minutes to just one of Cleverley and Anderson, never mind youngsters. Still, I'm guessing in line with your posts the point still applies in that you'd want the squad midfielder to be Cleverley in this scenario. They both have a lot of the same problems though, truthfully - Cleverley too seems largely unable to perform for the whole game, he has problems with goalscoring, he's suffered greatly with injury and it's unclear whether he is going to be good enough to start here.
Like I say though, I do know what you mean. I've basically given up on Anderson, and it could be seen as sensible at this point to distribute whatever minutes would remain after these signings elsewhere. As these youngsters don't really exist, we are left with Cleverley who, whilst not being as good as Anderson in my opinion, is younger and has more recently had a prolonged run of appearances. On that basis, it may well be worth sacrificing Anderson in his favour.
....if we sign two central midfielders, which would be great.
Anderson will be like 2 new signings.....
I think if we sign two central midfielders (cover/a replacement for Carrick and a technically gifted midfielder presumably), Moyes will have a job on trying to give enough minutes to just one of Cleverley and Anderson, never mind youngsters. Still, I'm guessing in line with your posts the point still applies in that you'd want the squad midfielder to be Cleverley in this scenario. They both have a lot of the same problems though, truthfully - Cleverley too seems largely unable to perform for the whole game, he has problems with goalscoring, he's suffered greatly with injury and it's unclear whether he is going to be good enough to start here.
Like I say though, I do know what you mean. I've basically given up on Anderson, and it could be seen as sensible at this point to distribute whatever minutes would remain after these signings elsewhere. As these youngsters don't really exist, we are left with Cleverley who, whilst not being as good as Anderson in my opinion, is younger and has more recently had a prolonged run of appearances. On that basis, it may well be worth sacrificing Anderson in his favour.
....if we sign two central midfielders, which would be great.
True Clev might struggle for time but not necessarily, I mean last season we had so many attackers and wingers, yet they all got time in the end. We might actually be able to rest players a bit more as well. Plus we can always go for a 3 in some games, for example I think Januzaj would fit in nicely in a 3, if we wanted to give him some minutes. I agree though Clev has plenty of his own issues, I think more than anything he still needs to learn about playing as a central midfielder, I think positionally he can be lacking. But he is still quite inexperienced despite his age, and seems to be not so injury prone as Ando.
Ideally I'd be hoping for a marquee creative player like Fabregas, and then a younger understudy for Carrick, Clev would act as the other more attacking player and I think in the bigger games we might need a third midfielder anyway.
But tbf despite what I've said I do think the squad is looking a bit bloated right now bar midfield. Januzaj and Lingaard have shown they deserve time and at the very least need to be playing above the reserve level as much they can but especially as it looks like Nani is staying, which I'm pleased about, we do have a lot of attackers. Personally I'd move Young on and as I said depending on how many midfielders we sign move Ando on.
Think I'm in agreement here. If it were up to me, I'd have Welbeck, Valencia, Kagawa, Nani and Zaha rotating (or starting depending on who is in form) on the wing, with Januzaj getting the minutes that Young would've got. I'm terrified we're going to do something stupid like play Young over him continuously no matter how poor he performs, though.
Maybe not necessarily move him on just yet (no rush, really), but at this point I think we should be looking to prioritise Januzaj's development over someone who, up until this point, has underwhelmed and not really showed signs of becoming a really top drawer player.
Someone needs to borrow an ice cream van and drive it slowly past Old Trafford with the usual ice cream van music blaring. Once Anderson is spotted behind in his ferrari in the rear view mirror beeping and yelling for the ice cream van to pull over....the driver of the ice cream van needs to step on the gas and drive all the way to Porto with a frustrated Anderson following closely behind.....Once in Porto Anderson will be so hungry for a 99 or three that he will do anything so.... ice cream van driver will then need to put a porto contract for him to resign in front of him on the lesser wages he would ever hope to get than at Utd and once he has signed than this episode can be put to bed....
Yeah, well it's similar to Ando really, if he does end up down the pecking order I can see him wanting to leave as well. He's a good option to have but we're well stocked in that area if Nani stays and like you said we don't want to not give what time we can to our genuine exciting young players coming through. I'd want Zaha alone to get as much time as we can give him so that would already push Young down the order for me, and then Welbeck is likely to get time from a wider role as well. Just right now I think one of the older wingers needs to go and Youngs that guy for me.
http://www.sportsdirectnews.com/premier-league/29296-everton-transfers-anderson-bid-expected.php
Exclusive
Everton boss Roberto Martinez is set to follow up his interest in Anderson by tabling a formal bid for the Manchester United midfielder.
SportsDirect News revealed the Toffees interest in the Brazilian star on Wednesday.
And Martinez is now set to make an official offer for the 25-year-old.
Anderson is seen as surplus to requirements by Old Trafford boss David Moyes, and the Scot would allow the player to leave if a club matched his valuation.
United splashed £20 million on the star back in 2007.
But he has struggled to make his mark in the Premier League, and would be allowed to move on for around £10m – though it remains to be seen if Martinez’s offer will match Moyes’ valuation.
Related stories:
by SportsDirect News Reporter
1st August 2013 2:22pm BST
Exclusive
Everton boss Roberto Martinez is set to follow up his interest in Anderson by tabling a formal bid for the Manchester United midfielder.
SportsDirect News revealed the Toffees interest in the Brazilian star on Wednesday.
And Martinez is now set to make an official offer for the 25-year-old.
Anderson is seen as surplus to requirements by Old Trafford boss David Moyes, and the Scot would allow the player to leave if a club matched his valuation.
United splashed £20 million on the star back in 2007.
But he has struggled to make his mark in the Premier League, and would be allowed to move on for around £10m – though it remains to be seen if Martinez’s offer will match Moyes’ valuation.
Related stories:
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