You would assume so.
Ander Herrera is a Manchester United Player!
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You would assume so.
IIRC Bayern & Martinez ended up having to play the buy-out clause, but avoided the tax hit, so it must be possible regardless.
Read about the Bayern transfer and how release clauses work in Spain with regards to foreign clubs.
I understand this but I though if we were going to pay the tax on €36 Million what difference would it make paying the tax on €40 Million. It shouldn't be THAT significant a rise surely.
We are the transfer market equivalent of Frank Spencer
well in the martinez to bayern case, bayern met the release clause, bilbao argued it only applyed to spanish clubs, and demanded bayern pay the taxes on the transfer too, which was about another 10 million.
it took two months of wrangling by lawyers to push the deal through, i think in the end they gave martinez the money to buy out his own contract.
but the main point is, it took bayern about two months to complete a transfer after they had met the release clause, because bilbao dragged their feet, so obviously they have some choice in the matter.
but how exactly it works is a bit above my head.
Yeah, in the hope that this complicates the deal enough for us to back out and they keep their player. Also gives them a chance to boast.
The club should be prepared for this and bypassed Bilbao because bilbao are a complete waste of time. They will do everything to be a problem and when we decided to go for the player, we should know it's not worth the hastle. We dealt with this mob last season. Just pay the league and not bother with these guys. Their transfer market is different to ours and that should be the logic. Are we happy to pay the money to the league etc? If so? Good let's pay it. It's a waste dealing with this club.
This was the clubs decision to go back and deal with Bilbao. Two summers in a row, surely they know Bilbao won't just say 'yeah ok then'...
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44%...
Basically how it works in Spain, is that legally the player is the one who buys himself out of his contract, so to break his contract, the player has to deposit the money to the league. How ever, no player has that amount of money to give away himself. So the buying club, gives him the money, and the player uses that money to deposit at the league and cancel his contract. How ever as soon as a club gives the player that money, it's counted as income and thus liable to Spanish tax rates. So 44%...
Most of the time the buying club and selling club use the buyout clause as a reference, sometimes the selling club will sell at the buyout clause, sometimes maybe a little bit more. Thus the whole legal and tax situation is avoided.
How ever, legally, just because a buying club says to a selling club 'Here we'll give you this money for that player' does not mean the selling club says 'oh... well here you go'. They can tell the buying club to feck off and this force the player to use the legal route and buy himself out of the contract through the league.
This is what Bilbao did with Martinez to Bayern, and what they appear to be doing with Herrera here. They are legally within they're right to. The only way we'll get him is if Herrara goes to the league and buys himself out the contract, and most likely, pays the huge tax.
Essentially if we want the player, we have to probably pay another 15 million euros on top of his buyout. I guess Bilbao hopes that we decide he's not worth it.
It's not a release clause, it's a buy-out clause, that the player himself would have to pay to league HQ.
We bid at the value of the clause directly to Bilbao, to try and make things easy.
Having a medical and at carrington. Seriously it's going ahead or otherwise somebody has made a big cock up again.
This would also be unfair on the player that we screwing him twice. First time the Bilbao fans welcomed him. Second time they won't be so nice.
This would also be unfair on the player that we screwing him twice. First time the Bilbao fans welcomed him. Second time they won't be so nice.
so all that stuff about him been at carrighton was nonsense?
Free Ander Woody
We should have known this wasnt going to go smoothly to be fair, Athletic Bilbao only buy Basque players so they have no reason to make transfers easy for any other club as its not like they need to keep anyone else sweet, not exactly coming to united for any players
For a brief moment there lads, I thought we were gonna sign a midfielder! haha! Good one, Woodward!
Id imagine this is just bilbao making it clear they didn't accept a bid to appease their support. With everything thats been reported over the last couple of days it seems we are going down the buy out route and in an attempt to make it all easier we submitted a bid to bilbao in the mean time, they are not interested in making it easy so rejected it.
Who told you that?
Athletic say the rejected the bid this week, so most likely before we got Ander to Manchester. Probably we tried to do some kind of deal with them and they rejected. Surely we wouldn't have brought the player to Manchester if we were not confident we would get him.
Weren't there rumours last night we given Herrera money and there was a problem with the paperwork.
do we actually do for sure he was at carrighton?
At a guess, we thought they would agree to the full-price deal and they rejected it, "as a matter of principle." We've now set the formal, forced release process in motion.
On the tax issue - there is only one case in the past 10 years of a player/club paying tax on a release clause deal and that was because the club literally "gave the player the money" to do the deal. Bayern were concerned that they would hit a tax bill for Martinez and put aside money for it, but they didn't pay it, nor is it due.
There is a 1.6m payment due to Real Zaragosa on the transfer, whether that's inside or outside the €36m fee is probably another issue for the lawyers.
On the tax issue - there is only one case in the past 10 years of a player/club paying tax on a release clause deal and that was because the club literally "gave the player the money" to do the deal. Bayern were concerned that they would hit a tax bill for Martinez and put aside money for it, but they didn't pay it, nor is it due.
There is a 1.6m payment due to Real Zaragosa on the transfer, whether that's inside or outside the €36m fee is probably another issue for the lawyers.
He's not worth 40 million
There is a way round it to not pay the tax that Bayern did last time, but is very complex, as you say - we would have offered them the money to not to have to do this, they rejected it publicly so now it's time to take that route.
Athletic are different to most clubs in that they only buy players from the Basque region and therefore are a lot more finnicky about losing their best players than most clubs of their stature. To be honest, I was really surprised this transfer appeared to be moving along so quickly without any hiccups. Athletic are ridiculously stubborn when it comes to their transfers, they'll do anything to keep the players. You can't really blame Woodward for this, but people will anyway.
We probably did, this is probably treading old ground by Bilbao.
I do understand that though, they have a self-imposed ethos of Basque players making the pool smaller - only a few players from Basque country in Spain/ France and some Basque immigrants to South America. Personally I think it's a bit weird in this day and age but if they want to preserve their culture : good luck to them. However then they should've thought of contingency replacement plans before inserting clauses into players' contracts that the buyers are willing to pay. Why leave a bitter taste in the mouths of everyone involved ? Javi Martinez would never go back to Athletic given how they dragged out his transfer, Llorente was furious with being dumped in the reserves team. Every player to the dot that's left Athletic would loathe to return given how poorly they were treated. What good does making these players resent the club achieve ? Ander clearly wants to play for United, we're paying his release clause. What more do they want ? Every club has to sell some players unwillingly it's just a part of the business side of football, they're not the only ones. This is just really shabby behaviour yet again on Athletic's part.
We just can't give Ander the money as it would be classed as earnings and thus be taxable.
Is there a difference if we pay the buy out clause and Herrera paying himself?
If LVG thinks he is worth it, then let them get on with it
David Moyes turned the chance to sign him down, and then paid the amount they wanted for Fellaini. You can't blame the club itself for that, it was our deluded new manager who f*cked up.
How do we circumvent the tax issue, then?
well if this goes tits up then you could argue that he didnt learn from this mess last summer.
it now up to woodward to earn his money and go that extra mile to get the layer we want.
Nothing short of an embarrassment, again! One of the most powerful clubs in the world? Like feck are we.
Yes. Ander can pay himself and he won't be taxed on it. But where does he get the money?
thier would be tax on both
I was only referring to the difference in tax we would have to pay (around €6 Million) if the clause increased from €36 Million to €40 Million.
Yeah, tbh we're probably half way down the alternate route already.
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