Ander Herrera is a Manchester United Player!
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Come on bro. You make a solid argument, but then throwing lies around kind of devalues what you're saying.
Spot on. In today's market, Fabregas is easily worth at least 40-45Mil Euros. Chances were, after selling Thiago, Barca were only going to sell for a crazy offer. If we were serious, we should have started with at least a 35/40m Euro bid.
The figures we threw around almost gave the impression we were in control and they were desperate to sell.
In this thread?
Come on bro. You make a solid argument, but then throwing lies around kind of devalues what you're saying.
Check page 2 for the moment it kicks off. There is precious little activity before we were linked.
Why would he be mentioned in his transfer forum thread if he's not linked with us or another club?
I agree that there hasn't been much mention of him, especially "post" the Athletic Bilbao bubble burst. But posters like myself and Brwned has always "known" about him. In fact see post #1026 in this very thread. I actually mentioned him May 19th in the Fellaini thread, before all this kicked off and as jojojo said, United's also enquired about his availability twice before this bid.
Apologies if I've missed the discussion on him. I am guilty of not looking which forum I'm in.
Have you got a link for the analysis, outside the transfer forum?
Have you got a link for the analysis, outside the transfer forum?
Nothing to apologise about dude, like I said, you have a solid argument, in which there was no need for hyperbole. There wasn't much discussion about him. I think this is the only thread and like you said, it died. There was almost no mention of him. And you haven't missed much discussion about him, except some bits here or there etc.
You can check out the "which Bilbao player" thread as well.
That was one of the points I was trying to make though. That there was precious little discussion prior to the window, but when it fell through, it was as though we'd had a chance to sign Iniesta, and fecked it up.
I'm glad he has at least been assessed, and will have a read. As I said earlier, Muniain and Martinez were the ones that caught my eye, in the Europa.
Doesn't mean anything. If Carrick didn't play for us, I'd probably be wondering why he played for a top club.
So understated, outsiders only really got it last year.Edit: Can't find it, but I remember the thread starting.
That was one of the points I was trying to make though. That there was precious little discussion prior to the window, but when it fell through, it was as though we'd had a chance to sign Iniesta, and fecked it up.
I'm glad he has at least been assessed, and will have a read. As I said earlier, Muniain and Martinez were the ones that caught my eye, in the Europa.
Doesn't mean anything. If Carrick didn't play for us, I'd probably be wondering why he played for a top club.
Edit: Can't find it, but I remember the thread starting.
Yeah I get what you're saying, but I do really rate him. Probably not at 30Mil pounds, but that seems to be the going rate these days anyway. There were rumours if Barca sold Fabregas, they were going to look to replace him with Herrera. I think he's got everything in his locker, and whether we sign him or not, I hope he leaves Bilbao for a bigger side soon. His peak is around the corner.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/which-bilbao-player.352031/
Thanks Ish. Good reading that.
As would be expected, Martinez topped the wish list.
Brings back some painful memories of us being given the runaround.
By all means everyone's favourites were Martínez and Muniain. They were standout performers in positions we wanted reinforcements for. Herrera was great in those games against us but at the time we weren't that worried about creativity from midfield: we had just witnessed that brief sexual Anderson-Cleverley period with basketball scorelines. It was someone like Martínez we were more interested in at the time.
Our needs have moved on and, both actually having a 36M release clause, I would take Herrera over Muniain today. Not back then though.
Heh, I still think Iturraspe is the better suited player to us. But I think i've said it 5 times in this thread already. No matter! Live to sign another day!
But I think i've said it 5 times in this thread already. No matter! Live to sign another day!Heh, I still think Iturraspe is the better suited player to us.
I noticed that. Why exactly?
I think he is a better closer of space and a better marker. He reminds me a lot of Fletch and his tough closing attitude. Loves a good slide tackle as well
. They are similar players but I think he's more robust and mature than Herrera.Since we went for the player in Fellaini and that role beside Carrick that we'll perceive him to play I think that Iturraspe would have been better than Herrera. Not to knock the lad or anything.
Agreed. Martinez was just one of those "hard to miss out on" talents - but I (think) said, even back in those days - Martinez would have been a more difficult fit next to Carrick, as they almost do the exact same job, albeit they go about executing it in different ways.
Herrera, to me, was always the better fit next to Carrick. But I do think our club's valuation at 20M is right - if we weren't operating in the current market, adding on the "Basque" only tax, we're looking at around a 25M player. But what throws it, is that the current market is skewed. I don't think Fellaini's a 27.5M player (neither did his release clause apparently) but in our team - he might prove to be worth every penny. Which is the opinion I had on Herrera.
Anyway, I hope he has a stunning start to the La Liga campaign and we're back in for him in January, after selling some dead wood in our squad. (cough *Young, cough *Anderson)
I remember skimming through there and reading a "Sunday Gossip" - City were interested in Herrera and he was valued at 16M GBP around a year ago.Shame this post in the thread didn't end up being quite accurate.
The market is hard to judge at the moment. Bale, Falcao type moves suggesting a big shift, but Ozil going cheap in comparison.Agreed. Martinez was just one of those "hard to miss out on" talents - but I (think) said, even back in those days - Martinez would have been a more difficult fit next to Carrick, as they almost do the exact same job, albeit they go about executing it in different ways.
Herrera, to me, was always the better fit next to Carrick. But I do think our club's valuation at 20M is right - if we weren't operating in the current market, adding on the "Basque" only tax, we're looking at around a 25M player. But what throws it, is that the current market is skewed. I don't think Fellaini's a 27.5M player (neither did his release clause apparently) but in our team - he might prove to be worth every penny. Which is the opinion I had on Herrera.
Anyway, I hope he has a stunning start to the La Liga campaign and we're back in for him in January, after selling some dead wood in our squad. (cough *Young, cough *Anderson)
I remember skimming through there and reading a "Sunday Gossip" - City were interested in Herrera and he was valued at 16M GBP around a year ago.
It looks that last year, a £12-£16M player would have been a functional, with a little extra to offer, mid-table and upwards player. This level now seems to be £20M-ish. I'd have put McCarthy there, but Everton secured him at "last year's price."
One of the reasons I think there has been so much agitation, about our business this window, is that people recognise that the new TV deal, has temporarily(?) given the Prem a greater financial clout. There was an urgency to get those desirable foreign talents, while that advantage was there. It may not be so great after this season.
Should that have made United meet Herrera's clause? It depends if we thought he was a perfect fit, and we clearly didn't. That view may change in time.
If the perfect fit WAS available, but cost 50% over our valuation, I'd hope that we bite the bullet and pay. For that, the club must be very sure that he is the one. Considering the money that comes in, we should've been able to go there, and maybe we'd be willing to. Fellaini's cost seems to suggest that.
You can bet your arse that the scouting department are going to be busy, over the coming months.
Ozil going cheap in comparison? Huh.
Falcao cost around £50m and Ozil cost £42m. Lets not forget that Falcao was owned by a third party too.
Falcao cost around £50m and Ozil cost £42m. Lets not forget that Falcao was owned by a third party too.
The market is hard to judge at the moment. Bale, Falcao type moves suggesting a big shift, but Ozil going cheap in comparison.
It looks that last year, a £12-£16M player would have been a functional, with a little extra to offer, mid-table and upwards player. This level now seems to be £20M-ish. I'd have put McCarthy there, but Everton secured him at "last year's price."
You can bet your arse that the scouting department are going to be busy, over the coming months.
We seem to be having a "few hour conversation" i.e. we're only replying to one another every few hours.
I agree, but I think there's obviously a few factors going into it as well. Some prices are inflated because the selling club doesn't want to sell, the buying club's desperate, the player wants to go or the buyer's a "big/oil" club.
It's probably safe to say, if we were interested in McCarthy we might have paid a little more, but then again, Wigan's in the Championship so who knows. Madrid wanted rid of Ozil (by all accounts, he was forced out), hence Arsenal ended up paying a fair price. Still high, but in today's market, a fair price.
I just think a ton of the criticism levelled at the club is due to the "holistic" transfer window activities. Under bidding for Fabregas, not bidding for Thiago, enquiring about midfielders not available (de Rossi/Khedira/Modric) and in the end, over paying for Fellaini. (buy out clause wise).
If non of the above happened and we paid 23M to secure Fellaini months ago, I doubt too many people would be upset over not paying 30M pounds for Herrera. But the overall approach was just a bit chaotic and it seemed, not planned out too well.
I'm sure we'll improve in the next few windows. It's fair that Moyes wanted to have a good look at the players, keeping things stable before he makes big changes, hence he bought in a player he knows/trusts etc.
But to think, if SAF was in charge, we'd probably have sold Nani and Rooney and signed Ozil/Mata!
FM I tell you. FM. Perhaps that is down to how highly I rate Ozil. If we had been after him for £50M I wouldn't have baulked at the idea.
If we had bid £42 for Falcao, I would have.
Ish
I sporadically use the caf, so that would be the norm for me.
Agree with all that.
I sporadically use the caf, so that would be the norm for me.
Agree with all that.
I think he is a better closer of space and a better marker. He reminds me a lot of Fletch and his tough closing attitude. Loves a good slide tackle as well
Since we went for the player in Fellaini and that role beside Carrick that we'll perceive him to play I think that Iturraspe would have been better than Herrera. Not to knock the lad or anything.
Agree with your description but I find Iturraspe a bit average and not far from his ceiling TBH. In fairness, that's the same vibe you always got from Fletcher at that age.
I think the crux though is we are looking at different descriptions/uses for the man next to Carrick. I wouldn't pair up Carrick and a fit Fletcher as my ideal midfield two. I preferred Scholes-Carrick, despite it being defensively exposed at times. Herrera basically sits somewhere in the middle, being able to perform a role similar to Scholes' but with a bit of Fletcher about him. That is, what you lose in how much better Scholes was at dictating the game, you gain in Herrera being more defensively sound.
He could also play further up from those two as a more advanced playmaker in a midfield three, but I guess that role is either for Rooney/Kagawa in more attacking setups or Fellaini in the defensive ones. Don't see much need for him to be signed as that, although his versatility across midfield roles would indeed be handy.
At the time most of us were worried about Carrick's backup and eventual replacement. Hehe, thinking Martínez would be happy to come as Carrick's understudy is classic caf logic.
I lived in Brazil back when Kaká was emerging. I was raving about him only for people on here to enquire on how easy it would be to convert him into a right-winger (our need at post-Becks and pre-Ronaldo times) and concluding it would do no harm to have him in the reserves for a couple of years and see how he developed and adapted to the physical nature of football in England, etc...
What a delightfully idiotic analysis of what I wrote.
There's a difference between making a low bid to begin negotiations and making one that insults the player or club.
Many cafites were in favour of Mourinho or Guardiola coming in as SAF's understudy for a couple of years as well. So it's not just players.
I would have said delusional, but the principle's the same.
That said, Real Madrid basically bought Illarramendi as a backup, Barca bought Fabregas, City bought Nasri, we bought Young - it's all relative.
They don't look similar.
If you look really closely at Young and Nasri, half-brothers.
Combine the two, you could have someone shit on the wing and in the centre.
I bet their father was shit all over the pitch.
We bid £23m for him? Woodward is clueless.I would've loved a Carrick-Martinez partnership and then whenever Carrick calls it a day we could have brought a different type of midfielder e.g Herrera to play next to Martinez.
Anyway on the Herrera thing, sounds like we only had enough for one midfielder and Fellaini was Moyes choice. If Herrera was cheaper, I'm sure we would have got both but in this current market there's no way you're getting Herrera for £23m.
Anyway on the Herrera thing, sounds like we only had enough for one midfielder and Fellaini was Moyes choice. If Herrera was cheaper, I'm sure we would have got both but in this current market there's no way you're getting Herrera for £23m.
We apparently only value him at 20, so that's not a surprise.
Maybe he would have placed a bigger bid if only he was taller, less technically gifted and creative, more hardworking and he's currently an Everton employee
Or if he was considered closer than 18 months away from being a starter.
Which he's not. We got someone who can start.
Big difference.
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